BBV - California Ballot printing errors

[harmonyguy]

There are two ballot cards for every absentee voter. The first card of some absentee ballots was printed with an error on the backside. This error is blacked out and the blackout was used rather than reprinting all absentee voter ballots. Reprinting the ballots would have cost more than $20,000.

http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_14007.shtml

Anyone know what systems they use for counting?
If it's an optical scanner, anyone want to find out what 'type' of blackout they used? Printer's ink, Sharpie pen?

Will the system be reprogrammed so that the new ballots have a different ballot style number?

How much of the blackout will bleed through?

[skylarmae]

1. I wonder if Arnold is mad as hell, as democracy in our country

is what he ran on isn't it. 'as an immigrant, blah, blah, blah...
I'm sure he'd love it if Calif somehow went to georgie porgie. That
puts him one step closer.

[GregW]

2. How is optical scan = BBV?

I thought BBV = touch-screen.

[ParanoidPat]

4. Whenever the votes are tabulated by 'machine only'.......

......I consider that to be 'Black Box Voting'. :)

If there are sufficient checks and balances built into the system, such as a mandatory visual audit of a statistically significant number of paper ballots, to ensure the reliability of the machines you can't really call it 'Black Box'.

[harmonyguy]

5. Optical scan is better than touch screen, but

only if recounts are done by hand - none of this "let's just run 'em through the scanner again, so we can all go home early" nonsense that some election officials try to pass-off as a recount.

There are a numerous ways in which even optical scan systems can be messed-with, which can only be detected with a hand-recount. Also keep in mind that since in some cases they use the same central tabulator software as the touchscreen systems, some of the same vulnerabilities exist.

At least with optical scan there is SOMETHING tangible to recount, while with touch screen there is nothing.

I still like paper and pen, with a day off for counting.
HG

[ParanoidPat]

3. And the cost of the inevitable lawsuit will be?

:shrug:

We don't need a competency test for voters but maybe we need to push for one for elections officials? :)

[RedEagle]

6. Folks, can you remember hearing about so many ballot problems...

..in other elections?

I'd like to know because this is getting a little to coincidental.

Punch cards and optical scan....all having problems, across the country.

Is this normal?

If it's not, then the potential exists (tin foil hat on) that the problems are intentional, to show us the absolute NEED for paper less systems and instead of voter verified paper ballots, some electronic verification scheme.

Since they can't win the problems with accountability of touch screens, and they exercized the chad option in 2000, maybe this is the next step in the process to PROVE the need to get rid of paper.

This time, they attach the ballot generation process, not the counting flaws. And this time, they can hit the optical scan, too.

OK, tin foil hat off now.


On edit: This ought to attract the paperless defenders.....

[harmonyguy]

7. Good point - although...

I think in the past, we just didn't hear about them as much. The voting system has been deteriorating for a long time, and it's only with the efforts of ALL the 'enlightened activists' (I'd name them all in no particular order, but would probably forget someone) that people are generally starting to become aware.

Even in the past two years, as someone f-a-a-a-a-r away from the problem, I've noticed a shift away from decent representative sample ballots being posted on the internet for people to view.
Dag-nab-it! I want to see a pdf of the actual paper ballot, not just some Courier-10 printout of who's on it !!!!

Of course, with touchscreen counties, since there IS no ballot, there is nothing TO see.

As long as the DRE makers are also the ballot printers, you may well be right about the increase in errors driving the move to paperless.
It could also be the incompetence of the printers due to the high turnover of staff, and 'other' problems.
HG

[GregD]

8. according to Kim's site:

http://www.calvoter.org/issues/votingtech/0304directory.html

Nevada County uses ES&S Optical Scan

GregD

[harmonyguy]

9. Thanks Greg !

I knew that someone here would have the info !

HG

[n2mark]

10. Kennedy election

I can remember hearing about the Kennedy/Nixon, many irregulatories on both sides, dead voting, cards being bent before counting so they would not take the count, but this was after the fact, but have never heard so many problems before election. Maybe this year the Democrats are awake. Let's hope being awake pays off.