Question for Women.

[BlueJazz]

Sure, I suppose this question could be asked to Men also but I feel (whether right or wrong) that most Women have their minds and experience more on the "Pulse" of the situation.

Anyway,if Bush is Elected and appoints several Supreme Court justices, it's most likely that a Women's right to choose will either be shut down or at the best, severally hampered.

So,My question is: Is the average Women truly aware of this or is it a "Head in the Sand" thing....."Oh!..That's not gonna' happen"?

I get the feeling (in this country) that a LOT of Woman are going to experience the old Cliche' "You don't know what you have until you lose it"

I hope I'm wrong....

[atommom]

1. Poor women, and young women, the ones most likely to need that

right, often aren't very politically active. I think that reproductive rights are a "head in the sand" area for too many women.

[Book Lover]

2. Yes, it is a head-in-the-sand thing

And if the worst should happen, the country had better be prepared to deal with women mutilated and dead from self-induced or quack-administered abortions.

I should clarify that not every self-administered emmenogogue is dangerous, but none should be taken absent medical supervision.

[XanaDUer]

3. My take...

the very women who will be most adversely affected by this are so busy trying to maintain their heads above water financially and othewise, they are not even thinking much about it.

I do think there is a certian quality of it-won't-happen at work here, as well.

[Lady Effingbroke]

4. I think the "average woman", unfortunately, takes the Right to Choose

and access to many different kinds of Birth Control for granted. Both have been readily available for some time, and a generation of women has now grown up accustomed to that access. It would be quite an awakening for many women if the Right to Choose and access to Birth Control were severely restricted or taken away entirely.

[sybylla]

8. Not to mention that 30 years out, there aren't any young women

who know what life was like before Roe v. Wade. They've never heard the horror stories that used to show up in the news. They've never lost a classmate to a botched abortion. They've never seen what happens to the lives of twelve year old girls who have babies before their bodies are ready to support it because their uncle raped them. They don't get to hear how a woman whose fetus died naturally but didn't naturally abort had to suffer and even grow ill because a hospital wouldn't perform the abortion.

If you don't know what life is like without a right, there isn't as much motivation to fight for it. I think that's at the very least part of the reason why it's more of an issue with older women than younger. The churches are pushing anti-choice now and have been influencing children since Roe v. Wade. The subject never came up when it was still illegal. And the pro-choice crowd are still doing the same kinds of educating they did thirty years ago. Seems to me that they haven't adjusted to the different knowledge base most young women come with to the abortion debate.

Perhap therein lies the problem.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

28. Not all of us

Keep in mind that in many areas, access to reproductive healthcare is an hour or more away, or beyond the financial means of a lot of women. So there are still woman who try herbal "remedies" they read about on the Internet, who get a friend to kick them in the stomach, or who commit suicide rather than face an unwanted pregnancy.

At the March for Women's Lives in April, a close friend who marched with me told a story about walking into her bathroom to find her 12-year-old foster sister lying in a pool of blood. The girl had been raped by her father and realized she was pregnant. She saw no other option than slitting her wrists.

[calico1]

5. Head in the sand---Most of the women I know think that

because it is legal now, it could never, ever become illegal. But most of these women weren't around or too young when the struggle for legalization was going on so they just don't know how hard the struggle was. As with many other liberties, people tend to assume that once legal no right can be taken away.

[bobbieinok]

7. agree with 4 and 5

Most young people (thinking here of women and blacks) think what exists now will always exist. Most know NOTHING about the struggles for women's and black liberation.

I think we who lived thru these struggles have a duty to talk to young people whenever possible and TELL THEM what it was like, etc.

[serryjw]

6. Sorry, But ROE was lost a long time ago

87% of the counties in America have no reprductive rights. RW has been very quietly going across the country for over a decade passing legislation to make it almost impossible to have reproductive rights. Take LA & NY out of that number an we lost ROE completely. We have an underground railroad, in most of you need to travel to get an abortion. Medicare will no longer pay for an abortion & either will our government for our troops........BUT they pay for Viagra!
http://www.naral.org/yourstate/whodecides/index.cfm
http://www.prochoice.org/Facts/Factsheets/FS5.htm

[calimary]

9. I fear you are not wrong.

I've had friends of mine (female) tell me point blank - "oh, it's not gonna happen. Not gonna happen." I TRY and TRY and TRY to impress upon them that they take this right and protection for granted and they've poo-poo'ed me. They WILL be shocked as shit if that dreadful day happens. One of them has a son who'll turn 13 in a few months. Nice tall handsome kid. Will probably have LOTS of girlfriends. I'm sure she's raised him well, but stuff happens, you know. And what if his girlfriend gets knocked up someday, and she's (my friend, that is) voted for bush yet again and Roe V Wade is overturned and she winds up with another brand new mouth to feed...

I think some of them are INDEED among those head-in-the-sand types. They don't want to think about it, and as long as it's somebody else's problem, they don't have to. But MY daughter is now 15. So are her friends. Some of 'em play pretty fast and loose. They've all heard the talk and had the birds-n-bees classes, but being well-protected teenagers, they probably assume (as MANY of us did) that it'll just never happen to them and everything will always be all ducky and nice and they'll always have a nice house and a nice life and a nice car and they'll all find good husbands who'll be faithful and will be rich and will have nice cars and be able to buy them diamonds and regular trips to Paris and they'll live as fat n' sassy as their moms did. IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK THAT WAY!!! I have friends who grew up with those assumptions, and it is painful to see the "quiet desperation" in their eyes now, lo these three-and-some decades later, when you know they're looking over their lives and realizing this is not what they applied for, NOR is it how they expected everything to turn out.

Also, many of them are, no doubt, relatively young, like maybe in their 20's. Which means they don't remember what their older sisters, aunts, moms, or neighbor ladies had to do, and to petition and to march and to protest and to write letters and make calls and wage campaigns big and small. They've never heard about the frightened young woman "in trouble" who had no other recourse than to seek out one of those sleazy back-alley coat-hanger jobs and then practically bled to death. My now-departed father-in-law told of driving her to the hospital in the back of his car because she wasn't in any shape to get other help. That's why, as an MD, he didn't care for the idea of abortion but he was grateful that it was safe and legal so the coat-hanger crowd was put out of business and poor women and young women and terrified women all alone and isolated and condemned by "polite society" wouldn't die just because they'd made a mistake or were raped or otherwise taken advantage of.

These women don't know what went before and they really don't care that much. Yet. And that sorry state of apathy will continue until something happens...

Then, it'll be "ExCUSE me?!? What the f--- do you MEAN I CAN'T GET AN ABORTION?!??!?!?!??! It's ILLEGAL?!?!?!??!?! WHEN did THAT HAPPEN!?!?!??!?!?!?

Funny enough, when my then-unmarried best friend got pregnant, she was REALLY in a quandary. Didn't believe in abortion (Catholic like me, but our beliefs split off from each other there) but wasn't married and had a job with a morals clause in her contract, and knew her boyfriend didn't want the baby or a marriage. He FINALLY gave in to both, but until he did, she was faced with maybe being fired and then a single mom with no income. The bizarro part was that ALL her friends, down to the last one (other than me), urged her to "Get an abortion!!! Get an abortion!!! Get an abortion!!!"

I've met these other women. Many of 'em are sort of redneck types, heavy smokers, beer and tequila drinkers, staunch republi-CON Kerry-haters, France-haters, bush and Reagan-lovers, cowgirls or cowboy lovers, with crucifixes on delicate chains round their necks (my friend circulates within the rodeo crowd and travels to gigs in Texas quite a bit). They're usually VERY nice and fun to be with and down-to-earth, as long as nobody talks politics. They'd probably call me a commie if they knew my leanings. My friend told me later that of all her girlfriends, I was the ONLY one whose response to her panicked phone call was "well, what do YOU want to do?" Her answer had been "I'm keeping it." I said "well, hey, I'm pro-choice, so I support you and whatever you decide. It's YOUR choice, after all." They'd all be the first to run to their OBGYN to "take care of it," or race down to Mexico for some "arrangement." But they're okay with turning it illegal for everybody else. Wait til it happens to one of their daughters, and I hope, by then, it's not too late.

[Jacobin]

10. My ex-girlfriend who is a republican because she thinks it makes her

fit in better with the socially "elite" told me a while back that they'll 'never make abortion illegal again' and that Kerry is anti-choice, and Bush is pro-choice.

:shrug:

Don't blame me. I tried to tell her...

[Killarney]

11. Absolutely head in the sand.

I was trying to explain this to some girlfriends this weekend and I know they weren't taking me seriously. Women think that this is a permanent right we'll always have no matter what.

[kcwayne]

12. My Mother's Story

I am male, but want to recount my mother's story.

In 1968 my parents were divorced. My mother had custody of 6 kids, and my father was a deadbeat dad before there was any power to do anything about it. "Dad" disappeared and left us to fend for ourselves, and unless we could afford to hire a detective to track him down, there was nothing that could be done.

Mom was working as a clerk, and we were driven into poverty. The weight of the world and more was on her shoulders. Her primary concern was to try to keep the family together. My sister and I worked (we were 15 and 13 respectively) and offered up a few dollars every week to help buy food and pay for gas.

In 1970, mom met a man and established a relationship with him. She became pregnant, and he wanted no part of 7 kids. He dumped her.

She was emotionally devastated, and the fear of how in the world she could handle another child was overwhelming. We had no medical insurance, and no money. The pregnancy would cause her to lose her job. She was determined not to resort to welfare because she would have to give up her house and move into public housing. The thought of having us so heavily exposed to crime and drugs was not palatable.

Mom got an illegal abortion, and developed an infection. She tried to tough it out because there was no money for a doctor. She ended up being hospitalized and damn near died. Had she died, who knows what would have happened to my brothers and sisters? We had no family to step in, and no social safety net. We probably would have been warehoused in the Illinois Soldiers and Sailors home, an orphanage that was in the area where we lived.

George Bush and the Christian right would have told her it was her fault for sinning and that she should live with the consequences. The life of that fetus are far more important than the lives of 7 people. I find such concern for the sanctity of life repulsive from the same people who not only have no compassion for the millions of people our military has slaughtered in offensive operations over the last 30 years, but place a high priority on funding and supporting military capability as a primary foreign policy tool.

The choice my mother made will be the same choice many women will face if the right wing succeeds in rolling back RVW. Just like back then, the burden won't be fostered on the wealthy, they will go to Canada or Europe to resolve their problem, just like they did back then.

[Tsiyu]

15. Thanks for sharing this story kcwayne

It seems men will NEVER understand fully the choices women must make to survive. When I was a small child, a neighbor died after a botched abortion ( Pre-Roe) leaving behind a small child and husband.

Many folks mistakenly assume pregnancy is this walk in the park. Not long ago in the US, and still to this day in many nations, women routinely die from complications related to pregnancy and childbirth. A pregnancy puts a tremendous strain on the human body.

Now we have increased poverty coupled with a high percentage of uninsured women. This is a recipe for maternal and infant mortality if there ever was one.

So let me get this straight. Don't let anyone use birth control, starve them, and ask them to carry a pregnancy to term with no prenatal medical care. Now, that is nothing short of a Pro- Death stance to me.

[calimary]

17. Hey, NEITHER of my pregnancies was a walk in the park.

And I'm a white woman with access to decent medical care. Even so, it was a CONSTANT struggle, very difficult, painful, almost completely immobilizing. They had to induce labor early, both times, because I grew so toxemic it actually began to constitute a legitimate threat to my life, as well as the baby's.

It might also shock some younger women to realize that there are people, at this exact moment, both males and (incomprehensibly) females, who think that what started our country down the "road to perdition" was women gaining the right to vote. There are people at this very moment who would eagerly begin to work hard to turn back the clock on THAT, too.

Anyway, women are supposed to be property, don'tchaknow?

[liontamer]

19. yes we must stop this sin of "choice"

I hate those people

[Kimber Scott]

13. Many women are anti-choice.

nt

[Cleita]

14. The majority of women today who have taken their

freedom of choice for granted do not know how bad it was before the women's liberation movement. I know they also resent old broads like me preaching to them, but they don't know and I guess they won't until it hits them over the head with a meat cleaver.

[phylny]

16. I read an article today that basically said

if the federal government outlaws abortions, there will still be states that will allow them. I'm sorry that I don't recall where I saw it - Newsweek, perhaps?

I think that if it is outlawed, the same thing that used to happen will continue to happen. Women of means will be able to find someone to give them an abortion, and poor women will not.

My grandmother, who will be 94 in a few weeks, said to me that they should never outlaw abortion. "People don't know what it was like - women dying, women bleeding, women who couldn't have any more children because they went to some butcher to get an abortion."

[JerseygirlCT]

21. I've heard a great deal of "head in the sand". I'm looked at as some sort

of reactionary to be concerned.

[liontamer]

18. the women who really need the right

the poor, the young, and the dumb(let's be honest) never have and never will fight for the right. Partly because they can't.

I'm not saying richer, older, intelligent women never need abortions, but they do have better access to birth control and are in a better position to make a quick trip to canada or find an underground safe abortion cicuit(like they did in the past). If we lose this fight for them, everyone in society will suffer.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

20. That's why I believe

than a truly intelligent woman who thinks for herself and about her own priorities should never vote for * and his ilk. It's not only the abortion issue; it's also sex education in schools and contraceptive education/availability. Just look at the FDA with its * appointed stooges and the effects on the approval of RU-486.

It seems to me a lot of women just see abortion as an issue (whether pro-choice or anti-choice), instead of seeing the whole picture: affordable health care (including mother/baby care); efficient and reliable contraception (for men too!) and scientifically-grounded sex education in schools.

[KayLaw]

22. Something else

Some women don't realize one reason we can have marry and have children later is because of amniocentesis. It's recommended when a pregnant woman turns 35 because she is as likely to have a disabled child as she is to have a miscarriage from the procedure.

My s-i-l is a Republican and a Catholic, but when she had a baby a 40, her husband persuaded her to have the amniocentesis. She was very conflicted and fearful she would go to Hell if she had an abortion, but the point is the choice was there for her and she took it. She and her husband made the decision, not the government.

Will she vote to preserve that choice for her own daughter? I don't know.

[Lindacooks]

23. Yes, it is a 'head in the sand' thing

I have a friend who graduated from college a few years ago, and she's in law school. She is convinced that Roe v. Wade will never be overturned because the justices don't contradict themselves; that it would set a 'bad precedent'. Nothing I can say will change her mind. So here's a smart, thoughtful, educated young woman who simply chooses not to believe how evil Republicans can be.

I can't figure it out.

[liontamer]

26. Does she believe that supreme court decisions never get undone? n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

24. Here's ONE line of thinking from a DUer.

This was posted on one of my threads and I had stated that if the chimp wins this election then we are in danger of having Roe v. Wade overturned by the RW judges the chimp appoints. Roe v. Wade is hanging by a thread. here's a DUers response..


MUSTANG_2004 (283 posts) Sat Oct-02-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #105

109. The right to choose is NOT hanging by a thread


There are only 3 judges (Thomas, Scalia and Rehnquist) who would overturn it. Not only that, but the Senate will likely not confirm any new judge who would overturn it.

Given that the Senate would have to confirm not just one, but two such justices (and assuming that Rehnquist, Thomas or Scalia isn't one of the ones being replaced), it is extremely unlikely that Roe v Wade will be overturned, no matter who is elected in 2004.


I don't know if this poster is male or female because the profile is undeclared gender.

My guess is many people have their heads in the sand and THAT scares the hell out of me. What we women had to go through to get where we are is NOT to be taken lightly. Many women paid a HUGE price because abortion was illegal. We cannot let it happen again. Not in 2004!

[Love Bug]

25. Some DUers don't think it will happen

Many times I've seen posted in abortion threads messages from DUers who don't think Roe V Wade will ever be overturned because the whole choice issue gets repukes too many votes. These messages are usually posted by males who will never have to pray the stick doesn't turn blue. I don't agree with them. Abortion is the primary issue of the Evangelical base of the GOP. Most of them really don't care what Boosh does as long as he's anti choice, which is one reason why he gets away with the stuff he does. Preparing Israel for the 2nd coming of Jeebus is their secondary issue. Other than that, poverty, education (except for vouchers), the environment, economy, etc., doesn't matter to them.

[skippysmom]

27. Some are unaware

Some are in denial.

Some seem to think other women's choices are their business.

Lots take it for granted, and don't seem to see the slippery slope of banning BCP.