Question for DU musicians...

[tedzbear]

How come Islamic music sounds different than western music? Its harmonies seem to be in only one key (?). I find it just as hard to listen to as jazz.

Is there a reason for this?


Thanks.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. I feel the same about Britney Spears.

:)

Anyway, saying all Islamic music is alike is as true as saying all Jazz is alike.

[bif]

2. What's Islamic music?

[louis-t]

3. Middle Eastern music in general

is based on a different scale than Western music. There are more notes, called semi-tones. Where we have a scale that consists of half steps and whole steps, Middle Eastern music has many more notes in between. Back in the '80's I worked at a music store. A guy brought in a keyboard for repair. At one point, the tech called the customer and said "Hey, are you set up for semi-tones on this thing? You are? Whoa! I almost 'fixed' it!"

[sui generis]

4. western music is based on a twelve tone scale

with some pretty lily white rhythms 4/4 or 3/4 and variations as acceptable.

Music from all the rest of the world is evolved from microtonal scales - notes that can be all over the scale - Indian ragas, non-fretted stringed instruments and drums.

Non-western music uses complex overlays of "harmonics" and rhythms - but it's influenced latin music in the tango rhythms (1,2..1,2,3..1,2...1,2,3) and other more complex overlays of percussion and melody.

A lot of it is cultural - you develop an "ear" for the subtleties as you grow up - kind of like being able to distinguish "similar" sounds in Chinese as different words due to tone and inflection.

[shadu]

7. I must admit, it pretty much sounds like junk to me

[el_gato]

13. Not me, I like it

but I like free form jazz stuff too

[tedzbear]

15. Thank you!

So it's the structure of the scale, not the key.

I wonder if it's the same explanation for jazz?

[el_gato]

5. Here's some you can stream

http://www.radioafghanistan.com/audioprog/audio.htm

[shadu]

11. Cool. Maybe I need to expand my horizons

thank you for the link

[crickets]

20. Thanks for the link! (nt)

[shadu]

6. Some Indian and Islamic music is microtonal

Whereas Western music is based on a 12 tone scale,
there music employs steps in between half-steps;
microtones.

Western music employs harmonies based on
the natural series of overtones, there is mathematical
order to it.
Microtonal music, (think Ravi Shankar),
sounds like junk to the Western ear.
Discordant.

[BlueEyedSon]

9. Ravi Rocks. He influenced western pop music greatly.

Think the Beatles and Stones psychedelic period.

Plus Norah Jones is his daughter, if you like that pop/jazz stuff.....

[Tsiyu]

10. You're just not used to the different scales and intervals they use

As others have said. It takes getting used to, but Asian and Middle Eastern tunes are very enjoyable to listen to, and there are varying styles in each regional type so if you try you can find something to love from musicians anywhere.

[shadu]

8. jazz uses microtones briefly to create tension -

pure microtonal is quite another animal.
I will agree, there is definitely lots of bad jazz out there.

[Tsiyu]

14. Blue notes becoming

"black-and-blue ear" notes?

[tedzbear]

19. Thank you!

Syncopated? Yeahhhhhhhh! Real hot!

"I suppose some like it hot. Personally, I prefer classical."

---Tony Curtis SOME LIKE IT HOT

[mrfrapp]

12. Wikipedia Article

As far as I know, the instruments are tuned differently. I don't know much about it but put simply, this form of music doesn't use the well-tempered twelve tone scale common in "western music". There's a good article on Wikipedia that might answer your question more fully


"I find it just as hard to listen to as jazz."

Jazz is like broccoli. You may not like it but you eat it anyway because you know it's doing you good ;-)

[Tsiyu]

16. I love listening to jazz when I'm homesick for NY

or when I'm cooking something fancy. I appreciate the elegance and nuance in the style- kinda makes you feel like you're at a high dollar wedding or some top-of-the-world piano bar.

But it relaxes me too much when I drive.

[BlueEyedSon]

17. Uh.. that's "equal-tempered"

well-tempered is pretty anachonistic

[immoderate]

18. Jazz?

"I find it just as hard to listen to as jazz."

Jazz, for some, requires more of a commitment for understanding. It's like some of the others mentioned because much Indian and middle eastern music involves improvisation.

Jazz artists often defy expectations and encourage innovations. Most music plays into our enculturations.

I chuckle now when I recognize that a track from Eric Dolphy's album, "Out to Lunch," which was considered the most way out of the avant garde in the sixties is us now as the bg music for some insurance company ad on TV. We've gotten used to it.

--IMM

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

21. While I'm not an expert on Middle Eastern music

as a guitar player, I have listened to a few players of the Oud (an Arabic roundback pre-guitar fretless instrument that probably influenced the European lute). I think that Western Music relies primarily on the major scale whereas Middle Eastern music is more focused on the Harmonic Minor scale or even what is called the Gypsy Minor scale. All three scales are used in both musical heritages, but the Harmonic Minor and Gypsy Minor are far more important in the Middle East and are the focal point of harmony. In the West, especially in jazz, the Harmonic Minor and Gypsy Minor are used, primarily in augmented chords or major/minor chord structures and chord substitutions. But there are pieces written primarily in Gypsy Minor in Western Music, such as Camille Saint-Saens' "Baccanale From Samson and Delilah". The Harmonic Minor scale differs from the major scale in one tone, if you begin the major scale on its 6th tone. The Gypsy Minor scale on which much of Flamenco guitar's harmonic structure is built differs from the Harmonic Minor by one tone. Flamenco guitar developed through the encounter of Western and Moorish music in Spain.

In sum, I think that both Western and Middle Eastern music use these scales but each musical tradition is based primarily on the structure of different scales.