WAS THE “KILLIAN MEMO SCANDAL” A SET UP?

[BlueState]

What do you all think of this?

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Newly released documents from George W. Bush’s military personnel files lead new weight to the theory that the White House engineered the recent scandal regarding CBS’s use of the “Killian memos”. Acting under a court order, on Friday, September 24, the Department of Defense released 10 new pages of documents, including an official Texas Air National Guard memo which conclusively refutes the technological questions that were raised about the “Killian memos.”

link

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I found it interesting but don't have any expertise in type facing.

[Qutzupalotl]

1. I think the WH docs are genuine, and Killian's could be too.

I'm leaning toward the theory that Killian typed his own, as backup, in case the ones Knox typed were lost (which they were).

If Burkett managed to hire a forger, he hired a very good one, who was knowledgeable about old typewriters used in the guard. The reason the font and spacing match among some of these documents is they were typed on the same kind of typewriter with the same font.

Definitely not a quick MS Word doc, which is how the rumor of forgery started. Still no hard evidence of forgery (that I've seen).

[BlueState]

5. Yes that is my inclination as well...

I have not been convinced that the question of forgery has been fully answered. Only that CBS may not have done due diligence in verifying. And as this article points our there are experts that contradict the technical argument that the documents could not have been produced on a typewriter available at the time.

[Selwynn]

2. That link doesn't work...

[BlueState]

4. Fixed.

Shows how well I follow directions. The HTML lookup table
says "URL is without the "http:" guess what? I put in http.

[UTUSN]

3. It's Totally KKKarl's m.o.

*************QUOTE********
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/238624p-204782c.html
Karl Rove, ambush strategist?


When Dan Rather finally admitted that fake memos might have been used in his "60 Minutes Wednesday" report on President Bush's National Guard Service, political insiders immediately suspected the hand of Karl Rove.

Rove has vehemently denied the speculation. But, as the Atlantic Monthly's Joshua Green points out in the upcoming issue, Bush's political guru has earned quite a reputation for using dirty tricks in the heat of a campaign.

Green reports that:


In the 1996 Alabama Supreme Court race between Democratic incumbent Kenneth Ingram and Republican challenger Harold See, Rove printed anonymous fliers attacking See, his own client. The purpose was "'to create a backlash against the Democrat,' as Joe Perkins, who worked for Ingram, put it to me," Green writes. "Presumably the public would believe that Democrats were spreading terrible rumors about See and his family. ... The ploy left Rove's opponent at a loss. Ingram's staff realized that it would be fruitless to try to persuade the public that the See campaign was attacking its own candidate."

Rumormongering is another tool in Rove's bag, Green writes. In the late 1980s, when political consultant John Weaver - John McCain's top 2000 adviser - hired away one of Rove's employees, "Rove spread a rumor that Weaver had made a pass at a young man at a state Republican function," Green writes. Weaver quickly became persona non grata in the Texas GOP.

Rove's slimiest moment came in 1994, when See first ran for the Supreme Court in Alabama against Democratic incumbent Mark Kennedy, who had just served a term as president of the National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse and Neglect. Kennedy's commercials highlighted his volunteer work - and included one that showed him holding hands with children - so Rove started a whispering campaign that Kennedy was a pedophile, Green writes. "What Rove does is try and make something so bad for a family that the candidate will not subject the family to the hardship," explained Perkins.
The traumatized Kennedy won narrowly, but decided not to run for reelection.

Rove didn't respond to Green's request for an interview.

**********UNQUOTE********

[Qutzupalotl]

6. Rove's a sleazeball all right, but I don't think he'd do this.

It's too risky. What if the documents hadn't been questioned? Or if the questions were debunked too quickly? Then you'd have W looking like a spoiled rich fratboy who had strings pulled to get into the Guard and out early.

[UTUSN]

7. Questioning the Documents Was Part of the Plan

Buckhead, the wingnut lawyer from Atlanta, is who questioned the docs on the internet FOUR (4) hours after RATHER was on the air. They were READY for it because they KNEW about it because---I submit---they cooked it all up to start with. Here's one DUer's scenario that encapsulates different pieces that several DUers had:

*********QUOTE*****


"The Strange Case of the TANG Forgeries". I'm sure you all know Roger Stone and his lovely wife Nydia Bertran-Stone, that fiery Cuban rightwinger, who helped him arrange for Cuban righties to come down to the Miami courthouse, riot, and steal the election for Dubya in 2000. And guess who James Baker also asked to come and riot, Harry W. MacDougald, the "eagle-eyed" Buckhead, who announced the TANG documents were forgeries almost immediately, as if he had been forewarned. So Stone and Buckhead rioted together. Harry W. MacDougald is actually part of a gang of Republican lawyers who will do almost anything for the GOP.

Mr. Stone is infamous for his electioneering dirty tricks for years, and this year he even became the campaign manager and chief money-raiser for Al Sharpton in a blatant attempt to conflate Sharpton with the word Democrat and sink the ticket.

During the Democratic primaries, the AWOL charge came up. Karl Rove, alarmed at this turn of events, decided to forge documents that were based on real documents, with truth in them that reflected badly on the President, but that were fake. If he could get the DNC or the Kerry campaign to run with them, the cry of forgery could be used to shut down all talk of Bush's National Guard service, once they were exposed. A simple plan, Nazis did it all the time.

Only Rove, with Bartlett's help, could have made the forgeries, for Bartlett was an expert on the TANG records and had documents not yet released to the press. Rove would have kept the circle small, with as few in the know as possible. They forge the memos, originally typed by Mrs. Knox on an old Olympia manual, on a word processor.

Rove then calls up his best operative who is not officially connected with the campaign--the notorious Roger Stone-someone who would never talk and the only person Rove would give the job to. Rove then gets Stone the TANG forgeries. Nydia Stone, who has a Cuban accent, and has a long history of right-wing politics, having been Nixon's personal photographer and a photographer at the Reagan White House, offers to play the part of the damsel in distress, Lucy Ramirez. The Stones, who love to put on a good show, are thrilled to be "back in action".

Bill Burkett was the patsy selected by Rove and Bartlett, having had a history of mental illness and known to hate Bush. "Lucy Ramirez" calls Burkett and tells him of the documents, telling him he must get them to Kerry, but that he must promise to destroy the originals as soon as copies them for her sake. Burkett agrees and arranges to meet her at a livestock show in Lubbock.

But Lucy doesn't show up. Not wanting his wife to be the one to make the handoff--it was Roger Stone delivering the hottest envelope of 2004 to Bill Burkett. Stone then turned around and left without saying a word. Burkett, being an honorable man, obeyed the damsel in distress pleas and burned the originals after copying them. "Lucy Ramirez" and the "unknown man with the envelope" disappear.

The trap is set, only Burkett doesn't call anyone about the documents until Mary Mapes tracks him down and asks if there is anything else he knows.

When the promos for the CBS report come on, Roger Stone phones MacDougald and the trap is set. Within hours, MacDougald has every main point in play and the game begins.

THINK-Why would a Democrat give forged documents to a source like Burkett who could be easily destroyed as a witness?

Only a Republican would do it and Roger and Nydia Stone have been in the middle of top-level dirty tricks for years. Nydia even put Al Sharpton over the top with a $250 contribution from herself and friends, when he almost didn't make the matching fund threshold.

She is as big a right-winger as her husband is. She is no doubt Lucy Ramirez, and what I have laid out here before you is the only probable solution to the whole case, no matter how unlikely that may seem-given Rove and Bartlett's position.

The final sign that this was a White House forgery came when the reporter interviewing Dan Bartlett noted that his statement that he had no reason to doubt they were forgeries was emphasized so much the reporter noticed it as standing out. Bartlett today cancelled all his appearances, possibly to avoid questioning by the other side.

Even though Rove and Bartlett were taking a tremendous risk, as I like to tell Dr. H20 Man all the time: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
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[Qutzupalotl]

9. Then they should have planned better.

Like using real facts. The White House was given 3 hours advance notice. The best they could do in that time was to shoot from the hip with a bunch of misinformed bullshit.

Rove's not a good enough forger to have made these.

[UTUSN]

11. Using "real facts" Is KKKarl's Trademark

He fed "real facts" to James HATFIELD, lets HATFIELD put them out there, then "discredits" HATFIELD on personal points, thereby making the "real facts" appear to be tainted and discredited.

I submit that the WH did NOT have "3 hours advance notice," that they planned this whole operation over months/years. KKKarl does not need to do yeoman's tasks like doing the forging himself. He's got PEOPLE to do certain things. To repeat the points being made in posts above: KKKarl bugs his own office and blames opponents; attacks his own candidate and blames the opponent.

[0007]

8. The presidency is worth any risk! Rove's finger prints are all

over this one, without a doubt!

[Qutzupalotl]

10. It makes no sense.

If you're the President, you're automatically in a position of strength. Why take the chance that the documents will be shown to be genuine? Why raise questions about Bush's military service at all? You would have the power to change the subject on a national scale. It makes more sense to avoid this topic.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Of course they were.

With all the attention on the 'possible forgery' no one paid any attention to the Boston Globe write up on the same subject which did not depend on those documents. It got everyone talking about the wrong thing, and put all subsequent revelations in doubt as well.