I am shocked by all the DUers who thought Edwards lost or tied

[Stevendsmith]

I was dancing in the aisles (of my living room) during the entire debate. I almost got choked up I was so happy with Edwards' performance.

I thought Edwards was note perfect tonight.

Christ, I'm deflated by the reaction.

[VotefurKerry]

1. So am I

Plus it gives ammo to the other side.

He doesn't have to be perfect, he just doesn't have to lose the game.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. Maybe people are disappointed that Cheney isn't a bumbling idiot like *

Not all wins have to be by a landslide.

[unfrigginreal]

3. Don't be deflated

there was a few legit DUers with surprising reactions but most of what you're seeing is coming from the dark side.

[jdj]

31. I think so too, watching the post #'s

hope that is not an illegal statement, but if these folks had been thinking they'd have been hitting the polls instead of being trolls.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

4. It was close, but Edwards outdid Cheney on policy issues.

That is to say that Mr. Cheney did not have much to say on policy.

As a percentage:

Edwards.54%
Cheney..46%

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. That is about where I see it

And it flips if you listened to it on the radio.

Edwards may have gone all the way to 60% on the tele because of
Chenney's manerisms...

It was not an outright spanking... but the non political types are also giving it to Edwards... so that is good.

[porphyrian]

5. Don't be surprised, we're the diverse party.

Besides, as far as debating skills go, Cheney did do better. Edwards is just likable enough to forgive his occasional fumblings and ignoring of the "no directly addressing each other" rule. Factually, Edwards scored at least two to one.

[Stevendsmith]

9. Fumblings?

Man, I wish I could fumble like that in debate.

[porphyrian]

12. C'mon, he wasn't horrible, but he was a little stumbly on occasion.

He even started to say Saddam when he meant Osama once, though he corrected it. Cheney almost never did. All I'm saying is that Cheney is a better debater. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have stood up at all.

[sal]

26. [insert loud Bronx cheer]

Why you think the scowling liar Mr. Heavy-Hands debates better is beyond me.

Please explain if you want.

[porphyrian]

29. Presentation.

Cheney was lying, and he managed to remain calm, confident and well-spoken no matter how thick he spread it on. He was also adept at side-stepping issues, redirecting and knowing when to quit and move on. Edwards had charisma and, for the most part, the truth on his side, but he was a bit fumbly in his speech at times. He should've been mopping the floor with Cheney, but he didn't. Thus, he's not as good a debater.

[Cleita]

32. Really!

I thought Edwards directly confronted Cheney on his lies and then some. I don't think his interest was in floor mopping but exposing the lies.

[okieinpain]

6. I thought edwards won also, cheney did do good, he had some

facts, but I thought he looked tired at the end, and edward's looked like he could go another 90 minutes.

[dietdpfan]

7. Edwards won-hands down.

Some people just want to start shit.

If you think Cheney was better than Edwards: 1) you're a dope 2) tell it to someone who cares--like the morans in freeperville.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Speaking off

Went over there. If they were in a panic like the other day, well I'd say that you would be correct.

They are not in a panic... in fact they are claiming that Chenney spanked or destroyed JE... hence why I say it was close... and in this case a draw is a good thing, not to mention the slight victory (on the teevee... I keep telling folks Chenney did dominate on radio... we did the experiment. One of us listened to it on radio the other watched (part of it) on the tele... and I had a Kennedy-Nixon moment)

Now for the non political types (we are too critical and will catch thigns that the regular folks will not) JE did well... that is what matters, but what concerns me is that the ever so heroic media will transform this into a full chenney victory

[deadparrot]

11. If you were prepared for what the debate was going to be,

you shouldn't have been surprised. I think too many here on DU equalized Cheney with *. When Cheney came out there speaking full sentences, it nixed a lot of confidence. I'm pleased with Edwards' performance, not overly shocked either way. Both sides delivered blows, both made mistakes. Edwards, I think, looked more enthusiastic, was optimistic for the future while remaining hard on the administration.

In short, both parties pandered to their base, and i don't think we'll see a huge change either way. However, I think Edwards appealed to more undecideds through his combination of slams on the * administration, and his warmth, charm, and looks. Cheney was the cold fish that he's always been, singing the same tune that he's always sung. If that makes him appealing to his supporters, then so be it-- he faces the same problem Kerry did, the perception of being cold and stiff. Kerry was able to break some of that ice Thursday night, but I don't think Cheney will. Neither side delivered anything close to a KO.

[maryallen]

13. You use the term "DUers" rather loosely ...

We're being invaded by multiple moles ... or haven't you noticed?

[Cha]

14. Don't be "deflated"!

A lot of People share your opinion..it's just some see it differently. From expectations, I think..

I think Edwards powerfully outshined cheney ..you weren't hallucinating:)

[Stevendsmith]

17. Thanks!

I needed that.

[MSgt213]

15. I not quite sure if what some people were looking for and it's got me

confused.

Edwards came into this debate having to keep the momentum set by his boss. He did that and more. He attacked Cheney from the on set and kept it up throughout the entire debate. Edwards has a major known weakness and that is his experience. He couldn't get around that and deny it so it did'nt. Instead he met it head on several times thus deflecting the half hearted attempts by Cheney to attack it. He praised his boss and seem excited about working for him. He commanded the issues, got under Cheney's skin and didn't not respond to any attack.

Cheney on the other hand had a much harder job. He had to rescue the entire debates for his boss. He didn't do that in my opinion and he appeared to be not feeling well, listless and even bored at times. He didn't appear to have his heart in to launching attacks or evem responding when attacked. He hardly ever mentioned Bush and sometimes seem to be answering questions in away that didn't hurt Kerry Edwards nor helped Bush and his self. When answering the question about what makes you feel you have the stuff to be heart beat away he sounded if he would give it up if anything happen to Bush not like a guy who would take charge if the leader ever fell.
He, I think also made the mistake he had to avoid and that was telling outright lies. He said a couple of things that are going to come back and haunt the administration. Not a good performance by Cheney.

[Swamp Rat]

16. HA! Edwards kicked Cheney's ass!

I just watched the re-run on C-SPAN. Edwards won the debate.

:kick:

[alfredo]

18. You have to understand that Edwards didn't need to win

to win. All he had to do was make a good showing.

He did win, even if all he needed to do was tie.

There was the intense pressure on Cheney to undo the damage done last thursday. He didn't. He had to hit a home run, and all Edwards had to do was step up to the plate.

Now the pressure on bush is more intense. He has to undo the self inflicted damage, and Cheney's failure to knock out Edwards.


Edwards exceeded expectations according to some pundits. That is a win in itself.

[Brundle_Fly]

21. it was a tie

and I think that was all we needed, both are qualified to be number 2, big deal. Its the number one's the GOP has to worry about.

[alfredo]

42. Let's see what

Monday's poll numbers bring.

Just saw on CNN that Bush's electoral numbers have dropped below 270. The big mo has changed in Kerry's favor.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. Remember, some of the folks posting that crap are....

...freepers in DU clothing. They want to tear us down and feel bad.

But guess what? I know what I saw and heard, and Edwards kicked Cheney's butt.

[H2O Man]

46. Very good points.

We need to remember that Edwards debated Cheney, not Bush. There are two significant differences: Bush has higher "positives" and lower "negatives" than Cheney. Also, Bush is considered less of a, uh, deep thinker than Cheney. (But, hey, deep thinkin' is hard work!)

Thus, the public perception of Cheney creates entirely different dynamics. Yes, Cheney presented 1000 X more forcefully than Bush. But people don't like him. And today, the photo/film clip of him with Edwards, etc, shows he is a liar. So the general public rejects him.

I agree there are a number of folks on here who are "freepers" ..... andthey want to create doubt among real DUers.For deception is their language, and lies are upon their tongues. But there are some others who may sincerely be surprised, because Cheney wasn't humiliated in the same manner as his boy George W.

Be of good cheer. Not only did the public overwhelmingly say Edwards won - BIG - but Cheney raised the bar for George W. for Friday. We come out ahead in every way.

Note: the republicans aren't even able to debate Kerry-Edwards on the truth .... they have to lie, then "debate" the lies they apply to Kerry-Edwards .... and it has caught up to them.

[Spiffarino]

20. Be not deflated

At worst this debate was a draw. By any account, that's a neat trick for JE. Cheney has worlds of experience in politics, his camp made all the rules, and the moderator sucked out loud. Edwards was nimble, smart, and had command of the facts.

Cheney is good at lying and making those lies sound plausible, so on that account he won hands down. When - or perhaps if - any fact-checking is actually done, Cheney will get blown out of the water and our guy will smell like a rose.

[Dem2theMax]

22. Why? Because we are not afraid of saying that our guy didn't

absolutely kill Cheney? People around here tend to tell the truth. You want to see people lying to themselves over and over, go to freeperville. Edwards didn't lose. He also didn't KO Cheney. I'm not deflated by the reaction. I'm glad I found a board where people aren't afraid of calling it like it is, no matter if the person and/or subject matter is about a democrat or a republican. That's why I love this place. It's honest. :)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. Interesting. You're welcome to your opinion, but most people on....

...DU think Edwards won going away, and the online polls seem to be agreeing.

[Dem2theMax]

38. deleted to avoid starting war.

[ninainsf]

23. Where's the media's responsibility here???

Why does the media reward lying and spinning? (watching MSNBC) I mean, if teachers in our schools rewarded liars, this would pose a major problem right? Why don't they pick apart the debate point by point and see who's made the most HONEST good points. No points given for soundbytes that sound good with no facts to back them up. Then declare the winner. The media is just perpetuating the American lazy gullible unethical (ok, maybe just totally clueless) thinking.

[Starlight]

25. Some people were expecting Dicky to throw a screaming hissy fit...

& then clutch his chest & fall to the floor. So they gave him a lot of credit for holding it together & not dying during the debate. :P

I thought John came across as the intelligent, well informed, truly caring, compassionate human being that he is. He won hands down with me. :)

[pa28]

27. Debate in a nutshell . . .

Mean, corrupt, cloistered, Machiavellian Washington insider --> :spank: <-- Youthful, articulate, optimistic, energetic, honest son of Main Street America.

[lumpy]

30. You nailed it !

Edwards is so clean, refreshing, and optimistic. Cheney is..well, tired, tiresome, boring and an old retread who can't distinguish the truth from a lie.

[union_maid]

28. Edwards did great

Very few presidential debates are as clear-cut as last Thursday. I didn't expect a clear winner on points. However, I'm completely sure of one thing. This helped the Kerry/Edwards ticket and didn't do a thing for the Bush/Cheney ticket.

[Joe Chi Minh]

45. In its own way,

it was just as crushing a defeat as Bush's. Can any one of you name just *one* even remotely telling point - Edward's tax avoidance action excluded.

Unlike Edwards, who produced them copiously, and seemingly at will, I can't remember one incontrovertible fact Edwards put forward in his defence.

[Cat Atomic]

33. I think Cheney did incredibly well.

Say what you like, but Cheney was very well-spoken.

But I also think that's good for us, in a way. Anyone who watched tonight's debate is going to notice Bush's bumbling speech more than ever on Friday. People already think Bush is a puppet. The gap between Cheney's performance and Bush's performance kind of underlines that impression.

[rman]

39. "well-spoken" - So, Cheney gets points for style

But there's more to debate then style isn't there?

[donheld]

34. i think John Edwards did just fine

Crashcart looked looked combative, and seldom tell the truth. No, he wasn't as bad as Bushie but then who could be.

[The Minus World]

35. Goliath Fell

The eloquent manipulator vs. the impassioned neophyte. Of course, many will mistake authoritative delivery with factual accuracy, but it doesn't matter how many layers of gloss Cheney attempts to paint over the giant turd this administration has laid, Americans are learning to recognize the smell.

[Gore1FL]

36. Here is my take

I dinlt see a knockout blow, and frankly I didn't have the faith to believe the American public, especially the undecided voters, were going to see thorugh cheney's lies.

Obviously, I was wrong, based on teh non-scientific polls.

[K-W]

37. Everyone is devalueing the facts.

Rhetorically they both delivered well. Edwards was RIGHT.

I dont know why people view debates the way they do. Edwards made better points and supported them well, whiles't Cheney was just lying up a storm.

Edwards won this debate because he presented a much more convincing case. Cheney was defending his failures.

[Aidoneus]

40. Granted that I am not actually a supporter of the Kerry/Edwards campaign..

I would say anyway that Edwards chewed Cheney up and spit him out.

Cheney looked uncomfortable at every point that I had noticed, quite obviously dodging important matters, coming off rather shady and secretive. In other words, the little prick was last night as he usually is most other times.

I don't much like the K-E ticket, but Edwards came off very open and personable, with a general command of the issues at his disposal. Maybe not as powerful as he could/should/may be, but maybe that's a good thing in their position.. :shrug:

The night was clearly in his favour from what I had noticed, which was only part of the debate and thus my impressions are incomplete.

[Pithlet]

41. I think that many of us hold our own candidate

to a much higher standard because we know that it has to be an obvious and decisive knock out victory before most of the media will concede a win. Bush and Kerry was such an obvious, lop-sided debate that Cheney being merely articulate gave the appearance of it being much closer. I think Edwards did a great job. My complaints are he let some of Cheney's points slide - but the ones he did address he knocked out of the park - and I *hated* his response to the gay marriage issue, even though I know Kerry/Edwards is better on that issue overall.

[IrateCitizen]

43. Try looking through a non-partisan lens

Edwards did well tonight, there's no doubt about that. But, all things considered, I'd call the debate a draw to a slight edge to Edwards. Here's why.

Cheney was pretty good about staying on his overall message. "Kerry and Edwards are too weak to win the War on Terror. Things are going well in Iraq and Afghanistan. The world is a dangerous place, enemies lurk everywhere, and only those like us who are willing to wage endless war will keep you safe." Yadda yadda yadda.

Now, WE may see through this shitscreen, but a lot of people out there DON'T. Do NOT underestimate the effectiveness of Cheney's repeating of this kind of rhetoric. In fact, he's MUCH better at selling this stuff than Bush is. He knows how to hit people at their most basic level -- their need for a feeling of security. He spins the world as being infinitely dangerous, and then inserts himself as the only option with the steadfastness and courage to take on these grave responsibilities.

All that being said, Edwards did very well last night. I wouldn't call his performance "perfect", but he did a great job of putting Cheney on the defensive in several spots. To be honest, that's the best he could have hoped for. Cheney may be pure, unadulterated evil -- but he's far from clueless (like you-know-who). It's tough to "get" a guy like him very often, and Edwards managed to do so a few times. Contrast that performance with the sorry one of Joe Lieberman in 2000.

Just because it's only a tie or slight edge for our guy doesn't mean it still isn't an overall win, because in this case it certainly is. And you can bet that Bush will sound even MORE clueless in the next debate about the economy, which will only continue their downward slide. The GOP pushed for having the first debate about National Security, believing that they could put Kerry in a hole that he wouldn't be able to recover from. Now that Kerry actually was deemed the winner of that debate, the GOP realizes that they're pretty much screwed as far as the debates are concerned.

Or, if they don't know, they'd better ask somebody....

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Good Analysis I/C

More or less sums up my feeling, but i must say that a slight win is enough.

The undecideds don't need to see an asskicking. A slight win is all they need to help them decide. Today's poll numbers from uncommitted voters were highly pro-Edwards.

So, i'm not at all discouraged by the slightness of the win.
The Professor

[OneTwentyoNine]

47. He was on his game and made Cheney LIE his ass off...

How much better does it get than that??

David

[rocktivity]

48. He didn't seem comfortable with his foreign policy related material

But Edwards certainly made up for it on everything else.

I think too many of them was expecting a replay of the previous debate, but unlike Kerry, Cheney actually HAD an opponent. Edwards need to overpower Cheney, just show he wasn't afraid to stand up to him, and her certainly accomplished that. Cheney didn't even look directly into the camera until he made his closing remarks!

Kerry won his debate on multiple knockouts. Edward won his debate on points.

:headbang:
rocknation

[BiggJawn]

49. I was disappointed TinMan didn't throw the "F-Bomb"...

Edwards did just fine. But the TinMan did just fine, too.
If I was judging on personality and warm fuzzies, I'd have given it to John. but we don't decide things on warm fuzzies, do we?

Sorry, but I can't recall any instance where Edwards "Slapped that silly Bitch but GOOD!" that really stood out.

Sure, he didn't rise to the tinMan's bait, kept his cool under fire, and kept smiling, but that doesn't resonate with the sheeple.

It wasn't until the Pundits got done gnawing the bones that a clear winner emerged, IMO.

[Artemis Bunyon]

50. So you'd rather we lie? To make you feel better?

Is that it?

[Jack_Dawson]

51. Edwards Won

He didn't CRUSH him, like Kerry did Bush, but Edwards clearly did win.

[republicansareevil]

52. Our opinions don't matter.

Online polls don't matter. The only thing that really matters is what undecided voters think. And in the polls I've seen, they all gave Edwards the edge. Granted it wasn't the all-out ass-whompin' that Kerry gave Bush, but I don't think most people expected it to be. I don't think you're going to see that definitive a debate victory again for a very long time -- well, after the 2nd and 3rd debates anyway.