Video?? -- Take them out, dude: pilots toast hit on Iraqi 'civilians'

[eablair3]

has anyone seen this video -- any links so that it can be seen online?

from The Independent -- it says in the story that it was broadcast on mainstream media "Channel 4" and I assume that's in the UK. Is this available to be seen in the U.S.? Or, anyone know of a clip that can be seen online?


Take them out, dude: pilots toast hit on Iraqi 'civilians'
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington

06 October 2004

The Pentagon said yesterday it was investigating cockpit video footage that shows American pilots attacking and killing a group of apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians.

The 30-second clip shows the pilot targeting the group of people in a street in the city of Fallujah and asking his mission controllers whether he should "take them out". He is told to do so and, shortly afterwards, the footage shows a huge explosion where the people were. A second voice can be heard on the clip saying: "Oh, dude."

The existence of the video, taken last April inside the cockpit of a US F-16 fighter has been known for some time, though last night's broadcast by Channel 4 News is believed to be the first time a mainstream broadcaster has shown the footage.

At no point during the exchange between the pilot and controllers does anyone ask whether the Iraqis are armed or posing a threat. Critics say it proves war crimes are being committed.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=569207

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

1. Link to spread?? eom

[eablair3]

2. what does that mean?

not sure what you mean with "Link to spread?"

[KharmaTrain]

3. Old Stuff

If this is what I think it is...yes it's a very horrific video taken with a night vision camera from an Apache helicopter. It shows some Iraqis...some obviously boys...being strafed and cut down. There's a zoom in of one of the boy's sandals.

IIRC, this was shot during the "war" phase of the invasion and has been circulating around for at least a year or more. Not to diminish it's impact, just, if this is that video, it's not something that's recently occured.

[eablair3]

4. if you read the story

it says:

"The existence of the video, taken last April inside the cockpit of a US F-16 fighter has been known for some time, though last night's broadcast by Channel 4 News is believed to be the first time a mainstream broadcaster has shown the footage."

So, it says the video was from an F-16 fighter and was from last April. Apparently, it was shown on CHANNEL 4 (whereever, I assume UK) for the first time last night.

"Last April", would not be the "war phrase".

I was asking if anyone knows if it's available anywhere online? or anywhere else?

[KharmaTrain]

5. Is There A Link To That Video?

I looked and haven't found one.

This may be a different video, as I'm certain the one I saw was from an Apache...the camera perspective hovered throughout.

The pisser is these videos get shown internationally (Channel 4 is an independent network in the UK)...I see them here on NewsWorld International, but you never see them on our "mainstream" media.

The irony is how these networks love blood and guts, only when it's not government sanctioned and makes this regime look bad.

[jayfish]

6. Video Link Here.

http://www.jswaim.com/files/CAS.wmv

Jay

[KharmaTrain]

7. Thank-You!!! Mixed Emotions

Yes, this is a different video, and actually not as graphic as others I've seen (especially that Apache one...where it zooms in on a dead body and the nearby sandal)...and the soundtrack of the radio (the Apache video had the same thing) is even more chilling.

There's a mixed feeling here as I fear showing this video makes the war look like a video game. With all the graphics and the grainy image, these don't look like people, but sims. Remember how nutso people went over the "bomb going through the airshaft" stuff...or the poor bastard who just barely made it across the bridge.

[oc2002]

8. If that was it?

It seems hard to say who or what those people where doing in the street.

Except for the 'oh dude' part. Not sure if this proves anything.

[jayfish]

9. Exactly!

It seems hard to tell who they are. When in doubt, wipe them out?

Jay

[oc2002]

10. looks that way....

I get your point, if this was AFTER the end of the WAR declared by the President.

[oc2002]

11. Although......on the other hand...we need more proof

Although, Maybe, it depends on context. If they were just rowdy civilians I'd rather have had pepper spray cannisters dropped on them; if they were armed rioters closing in on American positions who'd been warned to disperse I could see sanctioning them. War's ugly.

Unless you have more information than was given in the video (actual fact), then you really have no basis for these statements of atrocities though.

[eablair3]

12. thanks. .... no indication that they were hostiles

thanks for the link. There is no indication that these individuals were combatants or hostiles.

The pilot radioed to HQ that "I got numerous individuals on the road, you want me to take those out?"

HQ: "take them out"

Wouldn't you think that they'd want to find out WHO the individuals are? Are they women? Children? Innocent civilians? You'd think that the pilot would call them something else besides "numerous individuals on the road". Perhaps, "I see the target on the road". Or, "I see numerous hostiles on the road".

Wouldn't you think that there would be some checking to make sure that these are not innocents? There doesn't appear to be any checking at all. They just murdered them.

[paulk]

14. there is no indication they WEREN'T hostiles

the problem with this video (and the one mentioned by imradioactive upthread) is that they are completely out of context. We know nothing about the circumstances they were made under. Nothing at all. It's not possible to draw any conclusions whatsoever from them.

F-16's don't just hover around. They fly from point A to B. Perhaps the pilot was flying toward a predetermined area where someone on the ground had told HQ there was a large body of hostiles. Perhaps the pilot had been told to look out for a large crowd of people. Perhaps the large crowd of people was in a location where HQ had reason to believe they were hostile. Who knows? This theory is just as valid (or invalid) as any other... how can we be sure?

What we can be sure of is that the military investigation will lead nowhere...

[Radius]

15. FAC with troops calls>Air Ctrlr>aircraft sortee, you get half here (NT)

[paulk]

17. Forward Air Control is with troops on the ground

they call headquarters and request an airstrike on a specific target?

Is that the procedure?

[eablair3]

18. well, they "assumed the individuals on the road were hostiles & killed em"

I can see the point you are making. And, if your guesses were in fact the case, you'd think that the military would come out and say "here are the rest of the facts". Or, "here is the rest of the audio that puts it in better context." This video has been out since for a while apparently. You mean the military can't find out what happened in that time? Seems like all they need to do is find out who the pilots were and interview them as to the basis for firing. If the pilots blame it on the controller, interview the controller. It's doens't seem to be that hard -- unless something is being hidden.

All you have is the video, which by itself is pretty damning without an explanation or response.

I'm less moved by the "oh dude" comment than I am by just the question of the pilot and response of the controller.

[Craig Roberts]

16. But you don't know the context

The pilot seemed to be specifically zeroing in on that area, and he may have been looking for a large group of insurgents retreating from a fire-fight or something. The person who tells him to "Take them out" may have had other intelligence, perhaps other eyes were watching the group and the pilot had been instructed to look for a large group moving in that direction.

We just don't know enough from that video to know whether they were civilians. And that doesn't mean that the soldiers and airmen who were there didn't know - they may have known much more than this one piece of information tells us.

But the "oh, dude" and the accelerated breathing. Very creepy.

[eablair3]

19. why won't the military give the context then?

you make a lot of assumptions, .. but like I just posted, why doesn't military just come out with their investigation and tell what happened? If it was so innocent, you can probably be sure that the military would be out with a story from their propaganda dept.

[Craig Roberts]

23. I'm not making any assumptions

and arguing that you shouldn't either.

Why would the military investigate the source of the video and put out an "explanation" when only a small fraction of a percent of the population has seen the video? All they would be doing is drawing attention to something people like you are going to try to exploit, and draw attention to an American pilot going "oh, dude" after killing a bunch of people.

You know, atrocities are being committed in Iraq by US soldiers. Some of them are on trial for murder by the US military. But I don't think we should make assumptions about this video when we don't know what the context is, and I don't think we should expect the military to jump on the case just because a few online leftists are trying to make hay out of it.

[kayell]

13. What I found most disturbing about that video was the tone of voice when

the person said "Whoa, dude" and the increased breathing rate that went with it. It sounded like someone was literally getting off on the killing.

:scared:

[RivetJoint]

20. That's how one's breathing sounds

when one is breathing through his O2 mask.

[kayell]

24. Yeah, I recognized the funny whistling, pulling, sound

Since I used to have to wear a respirator sometimes at my old job. But what I'm referring to is the way the persons breathing rate sped up after the explosion, and became deeper.

[eablair3]

21. Democracy Now = "unarmed civilians"

I saw on Democracy Now (at the beginning of the show) where they played the video of this, this morning and said that the military/Pentagon is now "investigating" this attack on "unarmed civilians" -- now that it has been shown on British TV Channel 4 in the mainstream media.

they didn't say what the source was for the "unarmed civilians" characterization, but the people didn't look armed. It looked to me like there could have been several women in the group, too.

But, you can bet it'll be whitewashed. Just like the Israeli "investigations" of things like this.

[Blecht]

22. Another link

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1011.htm

[oc2002]

25. ..this will disapear with a plausible explanation..

I can not see anyone in the media persue this story, it seems like a lose-lose situation for anyone in the US media. As they would be labeled anti-Amercican, not supporting the troops, demoralizing the troops....

Just drop this one, its like the CBS documents, a road to nowhere.