Who picked up F9/11 yesterday? How abt that extra footage?

[Search Party]

My wife and I watched it last night. The additional footage is disturbing, especially the footage outside Abu Graibe(sp?) and the scenes from Baghdad days before the bombing. Normal people leading normal lives, not fearful, proud, ready to defend their country.

Propaganda? Hardly.

We have a friend who stated as much. I simply told him to mute MM's commentary and you are left with factual footage. Game over.

[bryant69]

1. Game Over?

I like Farenheit 9/11, but the shots of baghdad just before the bombing as some sort of ideallic wonderful place are pretty dishonest.

Dishonest by exclusion; if we want a real discussion of what Saddam Hussein's Iraq was like, you need to talk about the torture chambers and an oppressed populace as well. So if he had balanced his shots of happy Iraqis leading peaceful lives with shots of Saddam Hussein's repression of his people, it would be honest and balanced.

But just so you know, I liked the movie in general, I think our invasion of Iraq was a big mistake, and I am voting for Kerry and against Bush.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Search Party]

2. game over where this friend is concerned

his narrow view is that of the neocons projection: evil, illiterate people that shout "death to all americans" hating us for our freedom, as if they are some type of alien life form, not human, not decent, without families,morals - "killers" "suiciders" "evil-doers" - all the typical mouthspout BS from the cabal. He buys into it. I was never making a case for saddam, nor would I.

[Bandit]

4. The movie was not designed to be balanced

We leave that to Fox News. Are you saying those pictures were false? That people in Iraq did not lead normal lives. If that is what you are saying then I think you are delusional. Of course it was run by a dictator but only the politically active had need to fear. Most people lived a very normal life there. Not anymore though... We fixed it.

[Wind Dancer]

5. I thought the purpose of the shots before the

bombing were to "humanize" the people, not state that their lives were idyllic. He was attempting to show that these are real people doing many of the same things we do in this country everyday.

I am almost positive he discussed this during an interview but I can see how one could conclude otherwise. I know the RW talking heads kept complaining about that scene in the movie so MM wanted to clarify his message.

[Catfight]

26. I agree, they love their children just like we love ours. Those shots

were only to show that they do the same things we do, that they have the same color blood we do in our veins. That's the idea of humanity, because we are all human we are all meaningful, no life is more important than another. Now if you're a repug, you think American lives are always more important than any other life. All lives are valuable, if we could look at each other through the eyes of God you would not harm another, but that is what happens when you have psycho's in charge.

[leesa]

6. Right. It is unfortunate that you have swallowed all the propaganda

on Saddam. Yes, he was very cruel to SOME of his country members. But he also provided jobs, advanced civilization and embraced MOST of his countrymen. Iraq DID NOT ask us to remove him.
You have listened to too much crap. Don't believe it all. Remember, the "mass graves" were due to the US bailing out on the Kurds after we baited them to attack Saddam. The "Kurd gassing" was a joint effort by both Iraq and Iran with supplies provided by the US.

[bryant69]

7. Saddam was a monster

I think it's a damn shame that we can't admit that both Saddam Hussein and George W. Bush, each in their own ways, were monsters. Saddam terrorized his citizenry.

It's not hard to understand; Saddam was a bad guy, but that doesn't justify us invading.

[noiretextatique]

14. please stop it...this demonization crap is tiresome

considering the MONSTERS we have in the white house.

[Momof1]

24. When will the sales figures come out on F9/11?

Does anyone know? I was wondering how well it was selling, I picked up my copy on Tuesday.

The extra scenes are great.

[Skittles]

10. oh stop it

the corporate media feeds us the rape room shit ad nauseum. Michael Moore was pointing out there WAS some semblance of normal life in Iraq - until we invaded and bombed the f*** out of it.

[bryant69]

16. I'll bet i could get a camera crew over there right now

And take some very similar footage. I know that because Fox News does it all the time in part of their ongoing efforts to decieve the American people into thinking things are going wonderful over there.

Bryant

[Skittles]

18. LOL

you'd be hard-pressed to find normal living there now; I don't trust a f***ing thing FOX does

[bryant69]

19. You think they gimmick up the footage?

Take some shots of Saudi Arabia or stock footage and pass it off?

Is it really reasonable to assume that the whole country is in flames all the time?

[Skittles]

20. LIKE I SAID

I DO NOT CONSIDER FOX NEWS A CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCE AND IT SADDENS ME THAT APPARENTLY YOU DO.

[bryant69]

21. BOY IT SURE IS IMPRESSIVE THAT YOU USE ALL CAPS

That certainly gets your point across.

I don't consider Fox news credible in analysis, and I rarely watch it. But when they show footage of people having happy normal lives in Iraq I don't assume the footage is faked.

The fact that many Iraqis are getting on with their lives, doesn't change the fact that Iraq as a nation faces enormous problems largely caused by our boneheaded invasion. It certainly doesn't negate the fact that invading Iraq was a dumb thing to do.

By the same token, Michael Moores footage of happy Iraqis under Saddam Hussein doesn't tell the whole story either.

Bryant

[Skittles]

23. I USE CAPS WHEN I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF

Mr. Moore's footage was appropriate because the corporate media would have you believe life in Iraq pre-invasion was all horrors. F911 is not a "fair and balanced" view - he was trying to counter the non-stop corporate media propaganda we are fed and he did a damn good job.

[bryant69]

25. I will agree that in general he did a damn fine job

Just think that this particular section was weak; and opened the door to too much criticism.

[Skittles]

28. and I don't give a flying f*** what republicans think

nt

[bryant69]

30. I'm not a republican

I don't know if you meant to imply that, but i'm not. And I don't think personal insults are the way to convince someone of the rightness of your position.

[rman]

37. "personal insults", such as "Saddam was a monster"?

-

[bryant69]

39. That's not a personal insult

That's a simple statement of fact. Unless you are actually Saddam Hussein.

If I had said you were a monster that might be different; but of course that's not what I said.

[FredScuttle]

29. Faux? Gimmick up footage? No!

Certainly not from a "news" organization that employs the likes of Carl Cameron! A "news" organization that put up completely FALSE quotes attributed to a presidential candidate and didn't take them down until someone called them on their bullshit?

[Joefess]

11. Yes we know Saddam was a "Evildoer", but...

I have not seen the new footage from the DVD yet. What MM is clearly showing the viewer with the original footage from Iraq is that it isn't always about people running around cutting each others fingers off. There WAS some semblance of normal life going on there.

The point is the Iraqi people led somewhat of a regular life we do. They did do simple things like going to the park with their kids, or have parties/weddings, have jobs, school, college.

The footage is showing the viewer how to disconnect the Iraqi people from the Regime.

The problem with most Americans is that they paint all of the Iraqi people just as bad as Saddam. That is sooooo wrong. Most Americans think Iraq had the same oppression that happened/happens in Afghanistan, wrong! Those 2 places couldn't any be more different from each other.

[DrWeird]

13. That's the most ridiculous post I've read all day.

Dishonest by exlusion: you conveniently neglect to mention how we've started rape rooms and torture chambers of our own in Iraq.

[bryant69]

17. This BS argument only works

If I had stated that I thought things in Iraq were going fine. If I had said that Iraq was a smart move and that we had improved the lives of Iraqis and so on and so forth, than this would be a good point.

But I didn't.

It's like too many damn people see things in black and white. Either Michael MOore is 100% correct or he's a total liar. What's wrong with having the opinion that Moore made a lot of excellent points in his movie, but i thought this particular section wasn't that honest? Can't I say that while still thinking the Iraqi war was a terrible immoral mistake?

[Dangerman]

27. Look...

I think people were living happy lives even living under a dictator. In fact one of the women in the Baghdad footage says "We have food, we have water. Our leader's fine. we are fine. Thank God." I also see a bunch of beautiful children playing on the playground smiling and laughing.

In the "Outside Al Garhib Prison" extra, this is what a difference a year makes: prisoners were temporary released complaining that the American were beaten them and torturing them and I see mothers who lost their sons in prison weeping and shouting "these men did nothing wrong." I saw in that extra where one guy told a story about four farmers using rifles to protects their sheep, then the American soldiers came and the farmers hid their rifles before they were arrested thought they were with the resistance. It's a sad extra, I'm telling you.

I haven't seen F 9/11 in the theaters before I bought it on DVD. I thought the extras were powerful and informative.

[eric_schafer]

32. I get what you're saying, but...

Do you think there were shots of innocent citizens being dragged away that Michael Moore filmed but excluded? Would you have found such instances at any given time as you would what was shown in the film? No doubt some people lived terrified existences in Iraq, but was it that way for MOST of the population? Do you believe Moore coaxed a false smile out of the boy riding his bike down the street?

Balance does not necessarily mean "equal time" if you're giving a representation of what a moment in time was like. And that's what I think Moore was showing: a moment in time immediately before the war.

[rman]

38. The US is portrayed as an "ideallic wonderful place" all the time.

-

[Bandit]

3. "What was the title of the report?"

Man did Condi ever squirm. She said over and over the report was not a warning but the Title which just got declassified is Bin Laden planning to attack America and inside the report it spelled out how. By hijacking planes and flying them into buildings. Remember when Condi said no one could have ever imagined they would hijack a plane and use it as a weapon? This report said just that. Also the footage of Bush* just coming out of his 9-11 testimony was stunning.

[DemonFighterLives]

8. I thought the footage of the Iraqi's

in their own realm looked happy and business was bustling. Also the marine who was helping MM try to recruit politician kids gave his first hand take on a firefight. He was horrified when the truck he checked out with the hole in the windshield and the blood on the seat also contained a picture of Jesus and a cross hanging on the mirror. Apparently the big Christian Crusade that was pumped into these folks was a misnomer.
Amazing what the loop footage (you know before you pick the movie or the extra scenes etc) at the beginning showed W in the classroom attempting to read My Pet Goat. That footage tells it all. I must have watched that loop 10 times till I was loopy.

[movie_girl99]

9. I bought it on Tuesday

but haven't watched it yet. I saw it in the theater but I'm having an F/911 watching soiree on in a couple of weeks so I'll see the extra footage then. Is it powerful stuff?

[DemonFighterLives]

22. Not enough in my mind

The best is probably "The Release of 911" with the song "The Revolution Starts Now". Lila Lipscomb gives a speech in one clip and Condi tries to bluff off Ben Veniste in another. A Swedish embed gives a view of a raid and the beginnings of the abusive actions of our guys. They take pictures with the prisoners (bagged heads) as though they were wild game trophies.
It all makes you sick and seeing the congressional black caucus shot down makes you wonder who is watching out for us voters.

I sure hope Kerry can help!!

[proud patriot]

12. I loved the extra footage

especially the words of the soldier
"we thought we'd find more weapons"
and
"most of these people's names don't match
and we would of let go."

[noiretextatique]

15. normal people, leading normal lives...what a concept?

not the death and destruction we brought...just normal and regular.
any person who believes average iraqis want what they have now vs. what they had before the war is DELUSIONAL.

[Karenina]

40. Their order

has been replaced with complete chaos. :cry:

[marlakay]

31. What about the part where the Iraqi's say they know its the oil

before the war, and why don't you go to war with North korea? the people themselves knew before the war what Bush was up to. They asked them if them blamed americans, they said no they blamed Bush!

And I heard on public radio yesterday that our oil wells have to dig down really far to find oil and in saudi arabia 30% down but the wells in iraq are new and right at top. I don't know why this hasn't been all over the place. It rang bells with me, new oil, no wonder they wanted it. The radio station was talking about how we are going to run out of all oil in 50-60 years if we do what we are doing now.

Has anyone else heard about this?

[Joanne98]

33. When they were bombing Samara I saw a ferris wheel in the footage

MM wasn't that far off. I'm sure we didn't put it there.

[ghostsofgiants]

34. Arab-american Comedians

Aside from the disturbing stuf, the feature about the Arab-American comedians was hilarious.

[Misunderestimator]

35. And Lipscomb's moving speech at opening night, and the Arab-American

comedians and the racism they've gone through, and the Swedish journalist's footage of "Charley Company" raiding homes and carrying away men (whose names did not even match with any on their lists), putting hoods over their heads and marching them away. The invalid old man lying on a stretcher, with a hood over his face, being manhandled by a medic and a soldier (not a medic) touching his penis. The journalist said that SEVERAL other soldiers did the same thing to the man. Very disturbing stuff.

[DemonFighterLives]

36. That was sick

:kick: