Misinformed public - yet again

[Bok_Tukalo]

WASHINGTON - In spite of denials by the Bush administration, half of young Americans believe President Bush (news - web sites) wants to reinstate the military draft, a national poll suggests.

The National Annenberg Election Survey found that 51 percent of adults age 18 to 29 believe Bush wants to reinstate the draft. Eight percent said Kerry supports bring back the draft, and 7 percent said both want to. A fourth of those polled said neither candidate favors the idea.

Both Bush and Kerry say they don't support a renewed military draft. Earlier this week, the House defeated a bill paving the way to a draft 402-2. House Republicans have sought to quash the persistent Internet rumor that the president wants to reinstate the draft if re-elected while Democrats have fanned the flames on the rumor.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=2&u=/ap/20041008/ap_on_el_pr/draft_fears

[Steelangel]

1. 51% of these kids aren't stupid

They know what REALLY going on.

[Bok_Tukalo]

3. I compare it to those who think Saddam was behind 9/11

<eom>

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. In what way? Bush is already implementing a back door draft.

[sandnsea]

9. Not remotely the same

There was intentional spin to make people think Saddam was behind 9/11, perpetuated by the Administration and right wing pundits. That's called brainwashed.

The fact that Bush is pushing pre-emptive wars to deal with terrorism, and we don't have enough military NOW, leads one to the logical conclusion that we'll need a draft if Bush gets back in office. That's called thinking.

[ihaveaquestion]

2. Maybe young Americans don't trust the politicians.

I'd say we have some pretty smart young Americans out there.

[mopinko]

5. check this out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2462279

[tom_paine]

6. In this case, not misinformed... prudently skeptical of pathological liars

How does this differ from the Bushevik Pravda, let's say, on the Saddam/al-Qaeda 'connection'?

Easy.

The 51 percent of young adults saw Bunnypants* say he has no plans for a draft. They also know he lies with the same frequency and intensity as Stalin or Hitler.

It would only be natural to conclude that Hitler, Stalin, Bush, or any other leaders in their category, were lying.

On the other hand, the al-Qaeda/Saddam question is qualitatively different and of course depends on pathologcial liars telling the truth, an unskeptical and foolish thing, be it Hitler, Stalin, Bush, or Ferdinand Marcos.

[prolesunited]

7. You think the public is misinformed

because Bush and his cronies DENIED it?!?!? They fucking LIED about the the reasons to invade Iraq. Why do you think we should take their word about the draft?

Their current war on Iraq is unsustainable as it is. Have you missed the stories about recruiting quotas being missed, applications to military academies down, refusal to let people out of service contracts, threats if they don't re-enlist, calling in 40-and 50-year-old reservists.

Tell me how they can keep going WITHOUT a draft? And what about their plans for Iran?

[Bok_Tukalo]

10. Yes, I think they are misinformed

Plans for Iran? Any neoconservative dream of "4 more wars" is dead and buried in a soccer field outside Fallujah. We'll be lucky to get out of Iraq with our military reasonably intact.

I agree that our current conflict in Iraq is unsustainable and if (and I don't believe this will happen) Bush is elected, he will be looking for an exit.

Over half the public are questioning the Iraq war now. Not a plurality, a majority. What makes you think Bush would be able to institute a draft even if he wanted to do so? Which legislators will fall on their 2006 swords to make it happen for him?

[annabanana]

8. about that bill the house defeated....................

Got a letter from Rangel this morning about it (it was HIS bill)

here is the text of that message:

On Tuesday the Republican House leadership made a cynical decision to bring my national service legislation (H.R. 163) up for a vote with no notice, no hearings, and no consideration.

This is legislation that I introduced at the beginning of last year that would instate a draft -- requiring all young people to perform some sort of national service and subjecting them all equally to the possibility of military service.

I felt that too much would be asked of our so-called "volunteer" army made up primarily of young men and women from inner cities and small towns who join the service for economic and educational opportunities not available to them in their disadvantaged communities. I also opposed the war and felt that if the wealthy and privileged were faced with the possibility of having to send their own children to war, the political support for this elective war would disappear.

I always knew the issue of a draft would be controversial and it should be. But what the Republican Leadership did was to bring up the bill on "the Suspension Calendar" -- normally reserved for ordinary, non-controversial bills such as the naming of local post office branches.

They did not bring the bill up because they supported it or even because they opposed it. (Most of them never read it even though it's only 12 pages.)

The reason they brought up the bill was to make a cynical political statement a month before the election. They thought they could address the public's suspicion that a draft will be necessary if Bush and the Republicans are re-elected if they held this surprise vote a month before the election.

Not only was this an abuse of the House of Representatives, but it also won't work.

The rumors of a draft are not due to my bill. They are due to the Bush Administration's failed Iraq policy. It is now clear that they did not have a plan when they went into Iraq. This week we learned that former US Administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer has even declared that the lack of enough troops on the ground created "an atmosphere of lawlessness" that has made it difficult to stabilize Iraq. Recently, the Commander of the Iraq forces, General John Abizaid said that more troops are needed to secure Iraq's scheduled January elections. And The New York Times (Sept. 27) reported the Army is preparing to keep troops at the current levels in Iraq through 2007. All this when we all know that the National Guard and Reserve members have been recycled over and over and a back door draft is forcing people to re-enlist.

Where are we going to get all of these troops? I don't know. And neither do millions of Americans. So, they are rightly worried about a draft.

They deserve more than just an empty gesture. So do our troops, who are still on the ground, and left with the message that we couldn't take the time to discuss their situation and what should be done to relieve them. That's why I voted against this cynical ploy and told my fellow Democrats that this was not a serious vote.

I truly believe that if we continue Bush's failed policies in Iraq, a military draft will be unavoidable. Certainly, the idea that sacrifices should be shared in time of crisis is an issue that we must address. The Republicans want to sweep the sacrifices of the war in Iraq under the rug for their own political gain. We cannot let them get away with it.

Please pass this message on to your concerned friends and encourage them to visit www.charlierangel.org and click on the "Learn More" section near the poll for more information.

Sincerely,



Charles B. Rangel
Member of Congress

[goddess40]

11. If bush is actually elected there will be a draft

the numbers prove it. Bush is now threating Iran, we are woefully under staffed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush needs bodies to continue his warring ways.