Devil's Advocate: Are Atheists Discriminated Against In The United States?

[Zhade]

Have you ever been discriminated against for NOT believing in a god of some kind?

Have you seen it happen to others?

Do you believe atheists are discriminated against in the US?

[MrSlayer]

1. No one has ever discriminated against me for it.

:shrug:

[blm]

2. This is the campaign forum. Try another forum.

.

[Zhade]

4. Yeah, noticed that after I posted this. D'oh!

My mistake. Mods, please move?

[Zhade]

3. Damn it, wrong forum, sorry mods!

I'm a dope.

[gmoney]

5. The correct response is "HELL YES"

Ever since communism was equated with "godlessness" athiests, agnostics and undecideds have been scorned and viewed with suspicion.

[troublemaker]

6. More than ANY other group (except maybe felons)

[billbuckhead]

7. It's allright to have this topic here.30Million nonbelievers can't endorse

a candidate publically. We're more in the closet than gays.

[toddaa]

8. Never happened to me personally

I like to refer to myself as a Tao Pantheist, but that confuses people when the subject comes up, so I just tell them I'm an atheist. Apart from the usual, "No your not. Really?" response, nothing bad has come from it. The born again types will occasionally leave pamphlets on my desk at work, but they stop doing it when I highlight various passages and attach personal commentary. Scares the hell out of them and they end up leaving me along.

That doesn't mean it happens to others but I suspect pagans, Muslims, and Jews suffer far worse.

[CBHagman]

9. Yes, if their views become public.

Granted, it depends on WHERE their views become public. Obviously, if you're a novelist or actor, I doubt you will suffer discrimination in most cases. But in politics and in many other matters.

[Mojambo]

10. Very much so

It is next to impossible for an atheist to be elected to political office in this country.

In fact I think it is illegal in some states.

[AliceWonderland]

22. Holy crap, you're right -- there are states that prohibit atheists from

holding office. I just spent a little time with google and it seems there are laws in Texas and North Carolina which restrict atheists from public office. Holy @#$&. I am aghast. My understanding is that the laws haven't been invoked and would be struck down but @#$&! The fact that the even exist is...appalling. I'm just appalled right now. I need a drink.

[kiahzero]

44. Well, they're unenforcable, so there's no difference in terms of law.

It is a sad statement about those particular states, that they haven't felt the need to eliminate those provisions.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. This Christian says that those laws should be struck down

since the U.S. Constitution specifically says that "no religious test" shall be required for public office.

[NightTrain]

Fuck yes!

And if you don't think so, consider this: when was the last a time an openly non-Christian candidate stood a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected to congress or the presidency?

[JanMichael]

12. It's not Congress but isn't the mayor of Salt Lake City openly ...

...non-theistic?

[Dark Jedi]

16. Astounding if true

Whoa? In heavily Mormon country? No way! Can anyone confirm this? I find it shocking. This is the same state that send Moron Hatch and some other Repugs to Congress every damn time.

[JanMichael]

18. Ok, he's an Agnostic, which by definition so am I.

"In a race cast as a contest between secularists and the Mormon establishment, Salt Lake City voters chose Rocky Anderson for mayor over fellow Democrat Stuart Reid. Anderson, a self-proclaimed "agnostic" , was considered an outsider and rebel in this capital of the LDS faith. Reid was accused by local media of playing "the Mormon card," often noting his credentials with the church."

http://css.peak.org/newsletter/1999/nov99/church-state.html

I'll take a moment and be clear, if I were running for office and was asked what my religion was I'd say, "I don't have one thank you, I'm an Agnostic." Go figure.

[JanMichael]

11. I believe we (Yes, I'm an Athiest) are prohibited from holding office...

...in a few states. Texas?

Me personally? Not really, I'm pretty easy going.

[Kali]

13. Its not really descrimination, but

I freaking HATE:

having to vote in a CHURCH
listening to the pledge of allegience
the general assumption by every idiot out there that I am a christian
having the entity invoked on my cash
having to swear to the entity when taking an oath (like for jury duty, etc) isn't MY word good enough? If you don't believe me why wouldn't I lie about some superstitious nonsense? I mean they MAKE a liar out of you!

[NightTrain]

15. Preach it, sister, preach it!

:yourock:

[Zhade]

21. Can I get an AMEN!

Er, wait...

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. You don't have to swear an oath.

You have the option of affirming instead. The rest of it is a bit obnoxious, though.

[pop goes the weasel]

14. oh yes

it limits the places I can work. It ostracizes me in my community and don't you think for one moment that public prayer and that hateful pledge of allegiance aren't used as a litmus test of social acceptablity. If I need social assistance, in our new-fangled "faith-based" system, I would have to forfeit my freedom of conscience in return for my daily bread. I have a friend who lost even the right to see his children because he is an atheist.

[Arugula Latte]

17. Fellow Atheists:

Here is a good reply when someone asks you what religion you are. Say: "Actually, I don't hold any supernatural beliefs."

It zings it back on them -- the implication being that THEY are the irrational ones, not us.

Plus, it's true.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

29. I prefer

Looking at them with horror and pity in my eyes, and then saying something like "I prefer when the dead stay dead", implying that they are vampire worshippers. If they don't leave me alone then, I launch into this whole spiel about how Jesus is "the greatest vampire story ever told"--"So let me get this straight, you think this guy who got killed is going to come back and assemble an army of minions..."

[Cleita]

19. Yes, we are.

No, we aren't made to go wait at the end of the long line at the DMV, or use a different cash register at the video rental place, but we are not allowed to have an opinion, when we object to public funds being given to religious institutions, or prayers invoking God in public venues and I could go on. Even my local Dems club uses the under God phrase in the pledge of allegiance and act like I am a Roswell alien when I say I don't like it.

[bleedingheart]

20. I was shocked by a coworker who recently told me Atheists have no morality

I was stunned...

I said that a belief in a God/Goddess didn't convey morality upon someone.

I am a poorly practicing catholic and yet I found myself defending atheism because I found her statements disturbing..

[porkrind]

35. Christians especially

confuse their repressive sexual morality with ethical morality. These people are obssesed with sex. That's what repression does.

[UdoKier]

36. Being religious has nothing to do with being moral.

I've seen no evidence that people who go to church weekly are any more moral than logical people who eschew supertition. In fact, to thje contrary, religious people seem to do MORE unethical things, because they think all they have to do is repent.

They're so hung up on the silly issue of whether they have angered some God or not that they never get to the level of emotional maturity where you actually care about others out of empathy rather than fear.

[Pithlet]

37. She would probably be shocked

to find out that she probably knows more atheists than she realizes. The very few times that I ever talk about being agnostic/atheist in the bible belt, I often get a shocked reaction. I don't think they expect someone that looks and acts "normal" who is married with kids and owns a home in the suburbs, and until recently drove a minivan, to be non-theistic.

[qs04]

45. I'd suggest staying away from her ;)

By her kind of logic theists must be sociopaths, incapable of feeling empathy and compassion and prevented from acting on their antisocial impulses only by the carrot of heaven and the stick of hell. Any idea about her party affiliation? ;)

[anelson]

50. Good for you!!

Thanks for taking a stand!

[Bossy Monkey]

23. Can't run for office here

Apparently, they couldn't make it stick, though:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1211.htm
"As recently as 1997, the State of South Carolina denied Herb Silverman's application for notary public-simply because he is an atheist. <4> Since 1868, the South Carolina Constitution has said, "No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution." <5> At least six other states -- Arkansas, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas -- have similar clauses in their constitutions, but do not enforce them. Silverman prevailed in lower the courts, and prevailed again in the State's Supreme Court after South Carolina's Republican Governor David Beasley, who is a born-again Christian, appealed the ruling in order to protect the status quo of his religion."

[Ladyhawk]

24. Not only yes, but HELL YES!

When I was a "christian," I had a persecution complex because that's what I was taught. I've been discriminated against FAR, FAR MORE since I became an atheist.

Far more painful is the alienation I received from "friends" and family when I came out as an atheist. Some friends. :(

Here's a great article that puts the shoe on the other foot: Life in Our Anti-Christian America.

[aTm_exrugger]

25. Being from Texas and living in Oklahoma, i say yes.

I remember in high school this girl and I were mutually attracted to each other, but she said it was purely my non-belief that we wouldn't date. As you can probably tell from my name, I am an aggie, and I got the same problems there. Texas A&M can be a paradoxal place. There are no less than 4 churches within a block of the bar scene, and people seem to have no problem sinning Saturday night, waking up 6 hours later and praying at the same location.
Living in small town oklahoma is even more interesting. I remember seeing an editorial saying that this person would only buy from christian stores.

The funny thing is that I have been told by a few people that I am more moral than most other people they know.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

26. Most definitely yes.

From *'s father while he was VP and running for president:

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

- George H.W. Bush


If any other minority were inserted into that first sentence and it was uttered by the current vice-president and a candidate for the presidency, you'd have a HUGE uproar on your hands - and rightly so.


Personally, as an ex-Christian, the only discrimination I've encountered was from my family and church who were worried that I couldn't have any kind of "moral compass" without the faith. I told them I was more frightened by the idea that they needed the threat of hell to be moral.

[lazarus]

27. Yes

I lost a job once when the owner of the store found out I was an atheist. (I finally told him to get him to quit asking me what church I went to. Yes, that's acceptable conversation in the South.)

When I went to the local Labour board, the gentleman in charge said he was more concerned with why I was an atheist. I gave up at that point.

When I was managing a retail store, I knew I had to keep my atheism under wraps, because a small town such as I was living in wouldn't tolerate that. More churches than bars.

When's the last time a candidate reached out to atheists as much as he reached out to, for example, Jews? Or Hispanics? We outnumber both of them in the US.

[SarahB]

28. Yeah.

I'm not sure what I believe anymore as I've been through so many twists and turns with this concept in life, but I'd say I'm somewhere along the lines of a spiritually open agnostic. Most people don't seem to give it this the contemplation it deserves. How many people of whatever faith take the time to really learn about other faiths and really explore these concepts? Not many. Just follow like drones without much thought. Our culture as a whole supports that mentality and anyone who varies from the path, is deemed to be strange.

Americans who are of any religion (or none at all) pay their taxes and have the right to believe or not believe as they choose. As far as I know, we're not in a Theocracy yet, but it seems like some folks are working on it.

[lil-petunia]

30. yeah, and it is an election question.

When people tell me that my ethics cannot be trusted because i don't believe in their peculiar version of god, well fuck me, I guess.

I must be evil.

[porphyrian]

31. Representation of atheists to the public...

...is done primarily by obnoxious, defensive atheists fighting tooth and nail for seemingly-petty deletions of all religious reference, and by obnoxious, defensive religious leaders, who point to these atheists as proof that they are instruments of the devil trying to corrupt blah blah blah.

Frankly, as an agnostic, I'm far more upset at how many people ignorantly lump agnostics together with atheists when there is actually more similarity between atheists and theists than there is between atheists and agnostics.

[toddaa]

32. A positive voice for "nonbelievers"

This is not a political organization, but I highly recommend that nonbelievers check out the World Pantheist Movement. Until we can get past the angry rhetoric of the antitheists (as opposed to atheists), we won't be taken seriously.

Check it out -> http://www.pantheism.net/

[porphyrian]

33. Wow, thanks. - n/t

[Cozmosis]

38. Yes

I'm not an atheist, and it isn't fair to judge baselessly like for no other group.

[neebob]

39. No, but

I only really decided I'm an atheist in the last year or two, and I don't go around introducing myself as one. I supposed I might be experiencing some discrimination if I still lived in Utah.

[JohnKleeb]

40. Yep

I am Catholic but Athiests are discriminated against. Though it's probably worse in some places than it is others.

[Zhade]

46. Thanks for saying that. It's nice to see some recognition for our problem.

Despite what a few posters on DU might think, Christians are hardly the only group discriminated against. In fact, I'd wager they are less discriminated against than atheists in this country.

(I should probably put on my flamesuit now...)

:D

[JohnKleeb]

48. Well I was sort of an agnostic-athiest at one time but I changed

hard to explain why exactly. Oh of course Christians are less discriminated against than Athiests, it's like white guys who claim they are so persecuted against, its not to say it doesn't happen but I'd say Athiests being discrinated against is more common than vice versa. Just remember that both of our groups do get shit, hell we Catholics get shit from the rabid fundies like Bob Jones University because they think we're not real Christians, :eyes:.

[jonnyblitz]

41. I get more "shit "for being an atheist then I do for being gay BUT

no blatent discrimination so far.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Yes. When I joined the marines.

Undoubtedly, the stupidest thing I've ever done, I was asked by the recruiter what religion I was. "Atheist", I replied. "What were you before you became an atheist?" "Roman Catholic". So, I carried around dogtags for 4 years with RC imbedded on them.

Didn't bother me particularly. But, when I got into some trouble (drinking, off limits), my C.O. (who was a fundamentalist twirp) packed me off to see the padre as part of my punishment. Turned out fine. Like any good Irish priest, Father Duffy had a bottle of whiskey in his desk drawer, and we had a fine talk about Mother Church and Atheism.

Other than that, I can't think of any discrimation that occurred. Even since I've outgrown my youthful sureness and switched to agnostic.

I tell the bible thumpers that appear at the door with bible in hand that I'm a Buddhist - always leaves them perplexed as to what to say.

[Philostopher]

53. It's funny you mention that.

I considered myself Christian when my first hubby was in the Air Force, twenty years ago. When asked, they put 'Protestant' on his dogtags, since we'd moved and weren't affiliated with a particular church (and this was the beginning of a long journey for both of us into agnosticism/pantheism anyway, so we never were affiliated with a particular church again, but that's another song).

One of the guys who was in tech school with him was an atheist, though. I remember the ex telling me that when they asked the guy what he wanted on his dogtags at Lackland, the guy said he preferred 'atheist' -- but that wasn't an option. However, 'no religion' was, and that's what he selected.

I found it interesting that the Air Force wouldn't let the guy have 'atheist' on his dogtags, but would allow 'no religion,' but I suppose they were afraid it might lead to some discrimination somewhere along the line.

And for my own part, I've had more kicks in the shins for being a liberal than an agnostic. Around here, most religious conservatives I encounter pretty much seem to assume if I'm liberal I'm an atheist anyway. The way I look at it, it's their problem. So far, nobody's deliberately chosen to make it mine, personally.

[Shadowen]

43. Yes.

An atheist could never get elected President in today's climate.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. Oh yeah!

The one way I have seen atheists discriminated against is in situations around the holidays. "Since you don't believe, you should have to work so others can go to church or be with their families." This happened to me because my family is Jewish. I always got stuck with Xmas duty! When I finally complained (after 4 years of pulling Xmas duty), they all bitched and said they felt "offended" that I felt I was being taken advantage of! WTF?!

Personally, I feel all jobs should allow employees 7 (random number) "religious/personal" days. Then it wouldn't matter which religion (or lack thereof) you were. Christians would have to use those days if they wanted Xmas off. But, Jews could take off for High Holy days, without having to use vacation time. Pagans could take Halloween off...etc.

Brightest Blessings!

[anelson]

51. All atheists should visit infidelguy.com

www.infidelguy.com

This is such a cool site and one of my favs. Double your fun, meet some cool freethinkers, and enjoy!

[NNadir]

52. You bet your ass. I am in no way free to discuss my atheism at work, at

my child's (public) school, etc.

I note that the father of the person who is illegally occupying the White House - a person who was in fact President of the United States once, once advocated removal of the citizenship of atheists - with no public outcry against it.

Freedom from religion in the United States is a complete joke. This is very much a religious state, and men like Washington, Jefferson, and even Abraham Lincoln must be turning over in their graves.