Maher: "Bush, you big girl!!!"

[Bluebear]

"Every time he criticizes Kerry, oh he insulted our coalition by forgetting Poland. He hurt our troops calling it the wrong war at the wrong time....Bush is not resolute, he's on the rag! The only time he acts manly is about the Iraq war, like some stupid guy who gets lost and won't ask directions and says "I know what I'm doing!" The only time guys like this wake up is when their waives leave them, so on Nov. 2 I suggest we all get a divorce!"

Something like that....awesome.

[bluestateguy]

1. Is Maher for Kerry this year

He was a Naderite in 2000. It's real easy to vote for Nader when you are a multimillionaire like Maher who doesn't have to personally suffer the consequences of a Bush Administration

[Politicub]

5. I'm not sure

But he's certainley anti Bush.

[Syrinx]

8. yes, he's for Kerry

And he says he regrets voting for Nader last time.

[AlFrankenFan]

15. He and Moore begged Nader on their knees to drop out in one ep. (pic)

[Syrinx]

18. I resemble that remark myself. :)

[TOhioLiberal]

19. Yeah...

and that Cheneying asshole looks like he's eating it up, too. 'Yeah, get on yer knees and beg for it baby!'

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. Not sure he is Kerry, but he is surely anti bush

[Carla in Ca]

27. Here is article from Salon

<http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/10/08/newrule/index.html>

[calimary]

77. Uh-oh...Girlie-man alert!

Bet Arnold never thought it'd apply to his "sainted" leader...

LOL!

[ghostsofgiants]

44. He supported Nader in 2000?

I always thought (I'm pretty sure I even heard him say it in one of his stand-up performances) that he was a Libertarian.

[MADem]

56. He thought there was no difference

...between Bush and Gore, he called them Gush and Bore. He has acknowledged his error, and he regrets it deeply. He's pulling for Kerry.

[w4rma]

2. Bush was whiny. (nt)

[Mojambo]

3. Was this on his show?

How was David Cross?

Man, I wish I could have watched it!

[Bluebear]

6. Yeah, the last new rule, stop calling Bush macho....

"he acts like a girl. Not a woman, a girl."

Cross was OK, subdued but got got points in. The show was running long after the Moore remote interview.

[FrankBooth]

24. I am a huge Cross fan

But I thought he was ineffectual on the show. He seemed distracted to me, he was not aggressive and let the wingnut dullards talk and talk and talk. Maher bailed him out all night. The only good thing is that Maher is brilliant, so all was not lost.

[Politicub]

4. He was great tonight

Even though he had that republican fundie and some Fox reporter on there. He clearly does not like Bush.

[GRLMGC]

7. Man, what an insult to girls

Being a girl myself, I resent being compared to that monkey.;)

[Syrinx]

10. he meant it in the since of "throws like a girl"

He stressed that he didn't mean like a *woman*. FWIW.

[never_get_over_it]

12. Throws like a girl

is an insult to woman too - as is he's on the rag - Maher's statement is offensive to women and girls....

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stanwyck]

17. Why is being female

the ultimate insult this election year? First Arnie and hate radio want to hang the "girlie man" label on Kerry. Cause being "girlie" in any way is so horrible. Then, Maher, who I like, feels he has to "girly" Bush. Why? It is offensive. Find some other way to insult people. Let's stop with the "girl" stuff.

[FizzFuzz]

20. I second this motion!

any other kind of discrimination gets loudly criticized here and everywhere, but woman bashing almost always gets a free pass, here and everywhere. I've noted too that femaleness is used as the ultimate insult. Substitute any other racial or religious or (your choice here) group, and people can immediatly see the wrongness. Using that strategy, I used the N_ _ _ _R word (ug, I hate that word)in the same manner the female-specific hate word was being used, just to illustrate my point. Well, the wrongness of N is so internalized that the post got deleted. But the female bashing one ? No, women who protest that get hissed and booed for being uptight.

P.S. Occasionally, I do see a man point out the sexism of stuff like this. I applaud those men who can see that women matter.

P.P.S. Actually, though it may seem that I'm advocating censoring woman-bashing terms, I'm not. What I wish for is that more and more people would decide for themselves that they want to stop talking as if femaleness is the most weak, lame, crappy thing on earth.

[freeplessinseattle]

37. Thank you, well said!!

[FizzFuzz]

38. thanks!

its a hot button issue for me

funny screen name, by the way :D :thumbsup:

[knitter4democracy]

43. Thank you!

I often get angry when I read those posts. Why do so many men attack powerful women by calling them whores, and why is it the worst insult to compare a man to woman? Honestly, I wonder what century I'm in.

[LizW]

49. Applause for FizzFuzz

Standing ovation, actually.

I can't add anything to what you said, except that I wholeheartedly agree.

Maher doesn't get a pass for his misogyny with me just because he's bashing Bush at the moment. "On the rag"???? What is he, in high school? In the seventies???? Geesh, I hated that term then and I hate it now.

[FizzFuzz]

62. thanks, I appreciate the support!!!

Sisters Unite

I just wrote a lonnnng feminist deconstruction of the appeal of woman bashing then went back to check something and when I came back, I lost the whole thing.

arrrrgh!

I have to leave for an apointment now too...hope I can try again later. Think I'll make it a new post too. Bet it'll bring out the woman bashers as well....BWAAAAHAhahahahah

[Darth_Kitten]

54. Well said.....

it is demeaning...I wonder sometimes what evil little girls committed against big strong macho men. ;) :eyes:

We women don't have to get over anything. :)

[Skittles]

39. especially since for the most part

it is grown men who are running and absolutely f***ing TRASHING America

[calimary]

78. Hear, hear, Skittles.

I love men, but leaving the governing to them just sometimes seems to be one maddening, boring, idiotic "Mine's Bigger" game. Especially with bush, who seems bent (!) on proving to the world that his is bigger than his dad's. Then again, not all women are good leadership material either. Consider Contradicta... a more perfect poster child for incompetence you will NEVER find.

[Skittles]

85. ideally

men and women would govern equally, world-wide. Imagine THAT world, one we will never see.

[TankLV]

66. Unfortunately, you live correctly, and the rest of the world behaves

like stupid adolescents.

That being the case, the reality is, however wrong it may be as an ideal situation, for a male to be compared to a female is an insult. You and I and a whole bunch of other like-minded persons won't change that perception.

And it probably won't be for a few hundred years, either.

How come women can wear men's style clothes and it's OK, but for a man to wear a dress, or women's style clothes and there is something inherently psychologically wrong with him?

It's just one of those unfair things.

Oh, and they're "action figures", NOT DOLLS!

HA!

[FormerOstrich]

71. Here in lies the problem....

It's "OK" for a women to wear men's style because being compared to a man is not an insult. It is "BAD" for a man to wear feminine clothing because being compared to a woman is worse than pond scum.

Oddly enough whenever we speak up about the derogatory sentiments of women we get this stuff thrown at us. It's as if we have a secret potion that makes it OK for us but we are such bitches we make damn sure men can't do the same.

See we just want everything. To dress like men and/or women..then we have the nerve to say we are not treated equally. Then we want comparable pay, too. Damn we must be one peg lower than * after all.

Personally, I don't care what anyone wears. Men or Women. The stigma is that women are inferior. Kilts are a good example.

Yes, you are so right..it's just one of those unfair things....now I should just accept that because it's going to be another 100 years before anything changes. Yes, because everyone thinks that so it's something the next generation can worry about. Meanwhile we'll just go on thinking that women are just a wrung below *.

[FizzFuzz]

22. I worked with Maher once, years ago

came to the college where I work. He may be cool politically, but offstage, he was a prick. Throwing tantrums, literally, because the campus is dry and he wanted booze. And being a real pig to any women he had to interact with. Treated the students who were hosting him like absolute pee-ons. I was not impressed.

[GRLMGC]

28. I can see that

He just kinda gives off that air.

[Skittles]

40. he comes off as a major-league creepy f*** to me

an asshole

[loyalsister]

33. Maher has always been misogynistic

He constantly makes obnoxious comments on his show.

[merh]

63. Not all women or girls -- only to the thin skinned members of

my gender who take offense to everything.

I agree with Maher, the shrub behaves like a spoiled, whiney female, on the rag - "what about Blair" aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargggggggghhh!

Not every female takes offense to this type of comparison. It is a waste of emotion to do so. (imho) Other issues in the world have a greater importance.

LIKE REMOVING THE WEED THAT WOULD BE KING FROM POWER!

[Lorien]

48. A HUGE insult!

but then Maher has a real issue with girls (has a tough time getting laid when only dating 18 year olds)!

Bush* acted like a toddler; girls are tougher and have greater integrity.

[FizzFuzz]

50. and, GIRLS' scholastic abilities surpass boys, particularly

LINGUISTIC skills.

[ocean girl]

9. Why does Maher have to have 2 repukes on his show?

I'm sick of hearing them - if I wanted to know what they thought, I'd turn on FOX. Maher needs to stop trying to be 'balanced' and just expose intelligent, liberal Democrats on his show.

David Cross was great, but he was (literally) surrounded by loud-mouth assholes and got outshouted most of the time.

Every time I watch Maher, I say never again!

[JBoris]

14. I am sick of hearing them too

but the payoff was when they had to sit silent while Bill called * a girl

[realFedUp]

25. New Rule-Never have two asshole conservatives on again

gads...how irritating...and Bill, if you
don't like religion, don't bring the
damn subject up!

Liked Michael Moore, wish there was
more time for Frank Rich.

[minkyboodle]

26. I don't mind if he has them on

But Maher really should have been more forceful with Steele. The man would not let anyone get a word in edgewise (Maher included) and was driving me batty. Anyway, with guests like Steele and Snow they basically screw themselves so it was still a good show. I felt bad for my man David Cross having to sit in between those two loudmouths though. David if you are reading DU tonight....
Terra Da Lu the David!!

[realFedUp]

29. yeah, Cross was like the cream filling between two cookies.

Maybe the absence of a female guest
also made this show harder to listen to.

[Swamp Rat]

11. Bill Maher just emasculated Bush!

And he took on two RW idiots at the same time and smacked 'em down. :spank:

[AlFrankenFan]

16. Is there anything Bill Maher can't do? *dreamy sigh*

HOW I WISH I HAD HBO!!!!

[saracat]

32. Yeah! Stop trashing Kerry!

[Dem2theMax]

21. lol. I could hear Bill's voice as I read that.

Too bad I can't see it. Don't have HBO. :cry:

As for that divorce, I can hardly wait to 'sign' the papers.
Hmmm, have absentee ballot right here. Must sign this weekend and mail it. I want to be among the first to divorce *. :bounce:

[FormerOstrich]

30. This is such BS!

I am so angry it is difficult to type.

How dare the ultimate insult be telling a man he is acting like a girl/woman/female. I guess we know how well we are thought of.

Well boys, we aren't going to leave the sandbox. We will not be pushed aside, regardless of what you think. We will not put up with your bullshit. I guess I'm just a woman on the rag so get the fuck out of my way.

To the poster that said "get over it", screw you. I WILL NOT GET OVER IT. You are no better than the old white men that want to take away my right to chose. You are no better than a fucking pimp. May you be reincarnated as a rock so you have plenty of time to contemplate it. I WILL NOT GET OVER IT. Guess what bud, I'm not even an overly sensitive type and this pushes me over the edge. Here you can wear my burka, I won't be needing it.

To my DU sisters...We are all we have. I appreciate you very much.

[Bluebear]

31. Dearest ostrich....

I am sorry you are so angry that it is difficult to type.

You have to understand that the context of the monologue was comedic. Kerry has been 'feminized' so often by the right wing that it was a bit of turnabout. Having said that, I truly am sorry for posting this and that women were offended.

If there is some karmic redemption for me, I also posted Joni Mitchell's "Magdelene Laundries" hours ago to call attention for Bush's plan to open group maternity homes.

Again, sorry to have upset you.

[FormerOstrich]

36. and we are both birds, sorta,

You owe me no apology. However, I'll accept your apology as I believe it to be very sincere and appreciate the thought.

I did not mean to kill the messenger. Well..with the exception of he who won't get over it but wishes we would. Unless you wrote Maher script, that is. You didn't, did you?

I realize it was intended to be comedy. I even chuckle at a PMS joke here and there (but I won't admit it). I know some women that are our own worse enemy. But that's not what is represented in these sort of remarks, especially when they are comedy. It's a feeling of male superiority that is as entrenched as *'s assumption of royalty.

Around the globe women are treated horribly. In the US we have had to fight for everything we have obtained. It doesn't feel like we have made much headway when you read comedy such as this.

There are worse things in life than being female but it's not because of (some/most of) the men of the world. Do you play on-line games? Create two profiles, one of a man and one of a woman. Come back and tell me that you were treated the same.

Thank you for the apology. I still don't intend to get over it.

FormerOstrich

[ocean girl]

51. FormerOstrich - you are my new heroine!

You are so right. I wish men could spend just one day as a woman and see how demeaning it can be.

I'm a smart blonde woman who doesn't take any shit from anybody and I have paid serious consequences in the business world because of sexist men. I've been sexually harassed, fired and disrespected my entire 30-year-career and I don't think dissing females - whether girls or women - is funny at all.

Us female-types gotta stick together!

[FormerOstrich]

74. and you are mine!!!

I was all about climbing that corporate ladder for a very long time. It wasn't really a glass ceiling.....I am not sure how to explain. I am sure you know what I mean.

This post made a flood of memories surface. When I started, I was an Accounting major, Industrial Technology minor at SMSU. I worked days and went to school nights. The accounting classes usually had a couple of other females, but my Industrial Tech classes never did. I was virtually the only female there. At the same time I launched my programming career. Women were few and far between.

For years you were expected just to roll with it. It was a struggle to get your superiors to make eye contact. Hello up here... I totaled my car and collapsed a lung. The boys comments included that they hoped they has saved the seeds to those watermelons...you learned to fend it off and be one of the boys. When the boss sends you flowers and "secret admirer" cards you explained that perhaps it wasn't appropriate...very nicely...hey up here....

Improved..well I like to think so but I think more it's just disguised. Then something like these re-enforces it. I often wondered exactly how much the men in the room gave a shit about my presentation when I knew they were surfing porn sites not 5 minutes before. But it's not fair, I can wear men's clothing without negative stigma.

It may have taken me over twenty years but I finally got it. I abandoned the corporate ladder and try to survive under the radar.

Yes, we need to stick together. Something we are not very good at because we have been conditioned otherwise. Forget that...I mean it. Men aren't going to look out for us, only we can look out for us.

You need my help I'm there for you and I'm not just saying it. PM me and we'll swap war stories and strategize on getting some men elected!

[Bluebear]

76. I feel like we're all in some weird drama

You said: 'we'll swap war stories and strategize on getting some men elected!'

I say we all go out for Chinese :)

[FizzFuzz]

80. Ostrich, that story about your car wreck, and the chivalrous little boys

goddammit, I really want to scream or cry. Meanwhile, someone earlier in the thread, chided us as being "the thin skinned members of my gender who take offense to everything"...I hope she reads these posts. Wonder if she enjoys the right to vote or get an education or own a house or land or to have access to sexual harassment protections at work? (not that they have any bite...ask me about sexual harassment from a co-worker and just how much the admin wants to act on their zero-tolerance policy) Sure its important as hell to get the scumbag out of office, as Ms. Not-Thin-Skinned points out, but women's issues have always been back burnered until the "important stuff" settles down. And women's issues would make a very strong argument against Bush. I'll the truth about Bush would have been paid attention to alot sooner IF WOMEN MATTERED. If women MATTERED, there would have been a nationwide outcry his second day in office when he signed the global gag rule, consigning women, particularly poor women, to grisly death or forced childbearing.

Or how about this? I'll bet women treated unjustly in the Criminal Court system, revictimized by a system that seeks to protect men (well, rich men or white men) might just think they have a crisis to solve. Women, who comprise the largest majority of impoverished citizens just might think that systemic oppressions which make it more likely for women to face impoverishment, just might think its important enough to look at now.

Or maybe the women who were posting on the thread about news article about the woman who was attacked by her boyfriend. In defending herself, she, a 90 pound 4'11 woman, put a scratch on his shoulder. Mr 6'4" doesn't have to face consequences, but SHE gets arrested. (the scratch bled). NOt only that, but the women on the thread all had a story of their own about how the legal system protected the man in their life but victimized THEM. But we're thin skinned females complaining about semantics. Or try googling on "acid attacks on women", "female genital mutilation", CEDAW the Conference to End Discrimmination Against Women, a global alliance which Bush refuses to lend US support to. Among other things, they try to educate girls and stop violence against women, push for reproductive freedoms in countries where women are completly subjected to men and biology.

Threads like this are not about language alone, but the disease they indicate. Its about the mental attitudes that permit using femaleness as a metaphor for repulsion.

Women are expected to conform to a 14 year old boys fantasy. If not, we ought not to exist. (Women who have passed a "certain age" can tell you about what it feels like to suddenly become invisible.) Women's value depends on their fuckability.

Case in point: A Boondocks cartoon a few weeks ago. Guess Aaron McGruder didn't have any real politics on his mind that day, because the strip was gratuitous woman bashing-- the little kid is sitting watching a news cast: "A group of OLD, UNATTRACTIVE WOMEN protested today to <..blah blah something> support Clinton. Mr Clinton expressed his gratitude and hopes to thank EACH ONE PERSONALLY" The kid's resonse in the last frame? "Ewwwwww" Nice, coming from a liberal, eh? Gee, here I was minding my own business, supporting the Dem/Liberal cause and some BOY thinks he has a right to publish cartoons calling me disgusting. Thanks babe, Cheney yourself.

In fact, I came across a thread in the Lounge recently, from a guy asking if any men could relate to having sex on the brain 24/7. He said that when he talks to women, he can't really listen because all he can do is imagine what she looks like naked. If she's not hot, he can't listen because he's fantasizing about someone who IS hot. There were quite a few other guys commiserating with him.

How nice.

[FormerOstrich]

84. Thank you so much for your input...

Honestly, we (at least I) probably have hide of leather. You are very correct about the females that chide us for being thin-skinned.

How can they not realize what it has taken to get us where we are? When it comes to the workplace it is so much easier now. Sure it seems overboard at times but that's where we were forced to take it too. Just as the separation of church and religion. You can't leave a toe hold because that becomes the flood gates. Speaking up meant you were ostercized...by everyone...you were on your own. You ran a risk of not getting another job because no one wanted the trouble makers. We are over-reacting. Well had we not over-reacted 30 years ago, and 10 years ago, and 5 years ago you just might have similar tales of ours.

When I was sixteen. Sixteen mind you.. My family had moved to this small town a couple of years before. I hated that damn town. I still hate that damn town. I worked at the local TasteeFreez. There was a local cop. I thought he was older than dirt (probably early 30s). He kept hitting on me. I did not care much for this for a number of reasons. It kept getting worse. Then one day he decided to corner me and have a little chat with me. He told me I'd have sex with him or he'd make my life hell. The long and short of it is I wouldn't and he did. I have never before or since experienced anything as frightening as what I ended up being subjected to. I thought I had pretty much repressed all of Officer Bill...until Bush came along. People that weld their power over you is despicable.

The first house I bought was out in the country. It wasn't much. I was always really poor. I was an over achiever so I was really young. My insurance agent was an old family friend. She thought she was doing me favor by trying to keep my premiums low by not giving me replacement value insurance. One weekend when I was out of town my house burned down (propane leak under the house is what they decided). I lost everything except what I had packed for the weekend. A new law had gone in effect for rural fire departments on January 1st. My house burned Feb 6th. They decoded to try it on me. The charged me $6,000 to respond. I wasn't even in their damn district (they were closer) but they didn't let that deter them. My claims guy said that the highest he'd ever seen was $600. He advised not paying it (technically the insurance company was suppose to pay it before me..eventually they did pay it just to get it to go away). I didn't pay it. The fire department pressed charges against me and they issued a bench warrant. They charged me $6000 and they showed up to the fire with NO water. I lived 1/4 mile from a small lake so they went to get water there. There pumps were frozen. They drive 12 miles (one way) to get water. Not much as left when they got back. Didn't stop them from bringing the hook and ladder truck (single story home) and charging me 5 hours for it. They had an attorney calling me threating me. He chided me about what had I done with all that insurance money (hey bub..I bought a few things like a bed & some silverware and fuck off) After my insurance company made it go away my dad and I drove by the fire-station and the chief was there. Well he and I decided we need to talk to him. (the punch line finally) The chief looked me straight in the eye and said well we don't have a very big budget here. "Your a single woman. Living by yourself. It's not like we were taking milk out of babies mouths." I kid you not. My dad had to physically remove me.

Several years later I moved to Utah. I didn't know anyone there. I'd been on the interview and the house hunting trip. That's it. Being single and buying a house in Utah wasn't easy they had to see my entire life history. So I'm getting a chain link fence installed for my dog. I'm in the process of writing the check for the man. He says to me well good..I guess the only thing we need now is your husband's permission (he was too stupid to ask for homeowner permission which would be a legitimate request). I snapped he checkbook shut.

I really didn't intend to write all this..it just sort of happened. We have to stick together!! We are going back-wards girls. Roe vs Wade could be rolled back. Read the handmaiden's tale. I'll confess I probably wouldn't have reacted as much if it was anybody else besides Bush. No matter how any here spinning it, to insult someone is to knock them down a level or two (figuratively speaking). The translation is women are below * in the scheme of things. When women symbolize a lower level than *, well then we are in trouble.

It's so nice to others here. We aren't all alone anymore!!

[FizzFuzz]

60. Hey Turkeys!! You aren't doing the bashing!!!!

From what I have seen of your posts, you are one of the men I was referring to as the enlightened ones who actually NOTICE and point our sexism!!!!!!! YOur original post pointed out the misogyny of the insults Maher was using.

And your Magdalene Laundries post moved me deeply. Notice, not many other men showed up in that thread. Interesting comment on where women stand. But YOU were the one who posted it in the first place.

:hug:

I confer upon you the highest of compliments--I dub thee:

Honorary Woman!!!!

[Bluebear]

68. I consider myself dubbed!

Hear me roar!!!

XOXO

[FizzFuzz]

81. grin!

and that was "point ouT sexism", not "point ouR" :dunce:

[Generator]

67. Well as I feminist myself with a sense of humour

Yeah, I laughed at Maher. Bush doesn't have any real balls.

And Maher IS a sexist pig, but I still laugh. I guess my PC Feminist club card will be revoked.

Also, I SCREAMED at the TV when Chimpy mentioned group maternity homes. That made me ill.

[saracat]

34. Here ! Here! I am tired of it too and

Bill Maher is the ultimate sexist prick. He is NOT brilliant. He is a boor and a sexist.I have tried to watch him. I used to watch him and liked 80&% of what he had to say but since he has been on HBo he has gotten obnoxious! And he has been continually bashing Kerry . I didn't watch tonite as I do my own show, but the last couple of shows were nasty. Many Duers thought Kerry bashing was "fair and balanced" and I was overeacting. Well. I am joining in the feminist overeacting this time. This time , once again he has insulted me. I would cancel HBO but for Six Feet Under!

[Bluebear]

35. See above

Oh am I ever sorry I posted this thread.

[seaglass]

41. It was a comparison to a gril, not a woman. Can you not

recognize the difference in behavior between a girl and a woman?

I was a girl, my daughter and her friends are girls - I definitely recognize the behavior and reactions Maher was talking about.

[Darth_Kitten]

55. Girls I know don't deserve to put demeaned.

Geez, let's hold it against little girls to be saucy, funny, spirited, ornery, bad-tempered, etc, because they don't deserve that right, unlike little boys, men and women.

[Pithlet]

69. What is the difference?

Just wondering.

[exJW]

42. *God Here* Ahem

Note to self: re-asign Ostrich to less stressful duty than administrating reincarnation database and have her retake the "perfect justice perfect love" group learning weekend.

[FizzFuzz]

65. note to G*D

you created emotion, including anger and you created women...if you don't like anger in a woman, do a recall on us all.

You don't seem to have any notes to self about sending men who think little of your creation for some sensitivity training.

*ahem*

[knitter4democracy]

45. Amen!

Why should we get over it? Why should we just let men keep us down just because we're afraid of backlash? No more "play nice" if the men won't either.

[Liberal Gramma]

64. I actually thought this was a shrewd attack

since Rove has tried to feminize Kerry throughout the campaign. The label "metrosexual" equates with "homosexual" to the redneck crowd, and I think they hoped to siphon off some of those ignorant votes. In actuality, it is Bush who acts more like a 13-year-old girl: he made faces at the first debate but didn't respond, then the next day, behind his opponent's back, attacked. He hopes to have his outrageous behavior cancelled by being "cute", winking at the crowd and having nicknames for his favorites. Imagine your own daughter at 13, and picture the face she made when you told her no. Now superimpose Bush's face at the first debate. See any resemblance? Then remember how mean early adolescent girls were to each other, critical in a petty way. (OMG! Those shoes! Did you see what she's wearing?) Remind you of Bush's attacks on Kerry? Maher was only pointing out the obvious: Bush is stuck in a developmental stage of early adolescence, and girlish adolescence at that.

[DemonFighterLives]

46. Since the topic has kind of changed

I'd like to try to help in the understanding. First off, I love the DU Women. As far as the girlie thing, it used to be cool. Males grew up with it and it is a hard habit to break. Ever since grade school, boys who did not act like the other boys were somehow femmy, limp wristed and girly. I don't believe it was as such a knock on the girls as it was the lack of maleness or testosterone. We always liked the girls, but could not admit it until later. The girlyman thing remained funny until Gropenator and others have overplayed it. Now it is really just a lack of sensitivity to use the term. I guess it is time to think of new names to call underachieving, and ah, I guess I cant' put a word on it. We're learning slowly. Dad was kind of chauvinistic, but mother was a saint and from the old school and didn't mind serving dad. Please forgive us and help us. ;)

[MADem]

61. I think people should SEE the monologue

...before getting too upset. It was premised entirely on the fact that the GOP claims that they EXCLUSIVELY own the MACHO, manly crown. It referenced Ah-Nuld calling democrats girly-men. All Maher did was flip the reference, and say that the REAL girly men were the GOP. Then he did a riff, in a teenager Valley Girl accent, that was damn funny, making the GOP thugs into a bunch of "Mean Girls."

It may not sit well with the feminist in us, but it was a very effective segment--it was a joke that will appeal to the overmuscled moron with a good heart. In effect, Maher was telling men who vote for Bush solely or primarily because of his machismo that Bush is not a manly man, he is really a sissy who complains, cries, whines and refuses to speak to people who offend him every time things don't go his way. In effect, he behaves like a mean yet popular teenage girl in the lunchroom. I'd say his characterization was on the mark.

[Pithlet]

70. For me it isn't the comment

but the reactions to those who don't like it that infuriate me. It's the "Shut up and get over it" attitude here at DU and elsewhere that really sets me off.

[SarahB]

47. Well, Bush is not strong.

He's been a coddled, spoiled little prince his whole life. However, gender does not equate with strength. That's for damn sure. I like Maher on a political level, even if I don't agree with everything because he makes people think, but he strikes me as one Hell of a misogynist at the same time.

[Palacsinta]

52. Being called a "Big Girl" is a compliment!

Ironically......JUST A MINUTE AGO, I called my 4-year-old granddaughter a "big girl" for brushing her teeth all by herself. So Maher is pro-Bush? (an aside.....Can BUSH brush his teeth all by himself?)

OT, but while we're on this subject........I wish we'd also lose the mentally disabled jokes........if we disagree with someone "They're off their meds!?!. Shouldn't be a joke or a used as a pejorative. When my daughter (suffers with Bipolar disorder) is "off her meds" it is serious, indeed!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

53. I coulda kicked his ass BOTH verbally and physically when I was a girl.

THAT'S despite the fact I weighed about 80 pounds soaking wet.
So could my 12 year old neice - who is smarter than a whip...


This is an insult to BIG girls everywhere - lol!

[realFedUp]

57. a Republican girl

from the valley.....

no Democratic girl would whine as much
as that.

[MS68]

58. Well....I'm a 36 year old girl...

with a college degree and a job in a mainly male dominated industry. I'm married but independant with a husband that treats me like an equal. I don't have kids and never plan on having them.

Anyway, I'm not very old fashioned and I love Bill Maher. I didn't take any offense at his comments.

Women are different than men. We are more emotional. Not a bad thing....I heard something the other day, can't remember where, where Bill Maher pointed out a quote from Bill Clinton in which Clinton said if there had been more women involved in the Israel/Palestinian peace talks, we would probably have peace..something to that affect.

And growing up as a girl, I can tell you that girls are brutal to each other.

If you watch shows like the Apprentice with all of the women at each others throats, you don't have to wonder where people get their impressions.

[democracyindanger]

59. Be careful

Reasonable thinking like that can get you in trouble on threads like this. ;)

[silverpatronus]

72. personally, i found the girlie thing funny.

it was a joke, and people really need to stop getting their thongs twisted about it. instead, y'all should be concerned that in all the religion talk last night, not one person brought up the separation of church and state. THAT worries me more than any of maher's supposed misogyny.

[FizzFuzz]

82. Misogyny is worrisome, for reasons described in a number of posts here

It just happens that Maher is an example of the permission this culture grants to those who treat women this way. Its a symptom of some very unequal treatment that HARMS women in real life.

But, yes, thank you for bringing up the fact that separation of church and state didn't get brought up at the debate. That is VERY worrisome.

[Behind the Aegis]

73. Sexism in the media and the world...

Personally, I thought Bill Maher's comments were funny as hell. I didn't see it as a negative reflection on WOMEN. We, as a society, have 'assigned' certain attributes to the sexes and ages. "Boys" are brash, crude, daredevils, and bullies. "Girls" are whiny, catty, petty, and emotional. If you look at the descriptions of both, one can see they could be applied to either sex, but, more often than not, are more often applied to the sex I indicated. If a child crosses those lines, a girl who is a bully, a boy who is whiny, then that child is often "corrected" for not acting within the appropriate gender constructs. I.E. Don't be a bully, that is not lady-like. Don't be so whiny, be a man. In my opinion, this is where heterosexism gets its roots and this often turns into disgust for people who do not "conform" to their assigned gender roles.

If Maher had said Shrub was acting like a "queen," I would have found it just as funny. It would have had elements of homophobia in it, but, as a gay man, I would have been able to find humor in it because of the way it was used.

If you were offended by it, that is your right. And, no, you "shouldn't get over it." But, I would suggest you ask yourself, why you became so angry. Was Maher's comments really that degrading to girls? Or is it because when someone says "girl" you hear "woman?" Or, was the reaction because it was heterosexist because he (Maher) was implying the Shrub was something other than a man? Also, is this any different when people refer to Anne Coulter as a man?

Just my thoughts.

Brightest Blessings!

[FizzFuzz]

83. good thoughts!

:) What sets me off(and I think the other women who share my feelings would agree here), about the TYPE of comment that Bill Maher so graciously modeled for us, is the dripping tones of contempt reserved solely for femaleness in a man, or lack of proper sex appeal in a woman. I don't know about you, but I don't hear that kind of disgust leveled at men just because they are men.

Also, please see the many posts above which explain WHY its NOT just a matter of semantics. This is the same logic that drove African Americans to push so hard against the insulting language used to devalue and vent contempt at them, that had become entrenched in society. I hope women don't give up pointing this out, even though many insist it is trivial. People often use language unconsciously, and if one is expressing negativity like that it is better to become aware of it. Then one can address the meanings held within.

Actually, I often do laugh at jokes like that. I laugh at black jokes and gay jokes and jewish jokes, if its actually funny. If its gratuitous woman bashing, like a comedian who thinks he doesn't have to think, just say f-you avery third word....well....It depends on alot of factors. Of course, with Maher, as many women above have described, he singles femaleness out as a certain kind of nastiness. Or sees women only in terms of their sex-quotient. He exemplifies an attitude that is permitted in ways that would piss people off if they were directed toward other minority groups. This is the crux of the matter--what respect accorded other groups is not accorded to women. This is addressed in a number of the above posts as well.

ohh geez, I'm typed out. But thanks for asking. Sorry I am long winded.

[MrSlayer]

75. Man he was on tear last night, destroyed Chimpy.

That was a great show, Maher and Cross ate em up and spit em out. The girlie Bush bit was brilliant.

[Paradise]

79. * is a gerrrrrrly man! n/t