The socalled Democracy that the U.S. is trying to promote in the

[KlatooBNikto]

Middle East is different from the Democracy that takes root in any country through the efforts and acceptance of its own people.The U.S. as a rich Western country has no idea what and how the people in these countries think or want.The only connection the U.S. has on a personal basis is through the elites in those countries who will say or do anything that Americans want to squeeze out some more dollars from gullible American individuals or corporations.This is why American style imposed Democracy fails everywhere.Vietnam and Venezuela are notable examples.

Long after the Americans leave Iraq, the elites who made common cause with the U.S. in Egypt, Saudi Arabia,Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries will join the entourage of the Shah of Iran in permanent exile and that is when true Democracy will take root.It is not a magic wand that Americans, with their impatience, can wave at history and the miracle happens.All the wars Bush and the Neocons fight will be for nothing.History will see to that.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Well, DUH!

as Bill Maher says, an Iraqi would rather live under Saddam's dictatorship than see his daughter walk down the street in a miniskirt.

[KlatooBNikto]

2. That summarizes it a lot better than my windy words!

[BlueEyedSon]

4. Bill Maher Rules.

BTW, we are primarily bringing "freedom" to Iraq which is code for "unfettered free-market economy for American companies." In other words, a source for raw materials (generally oil.... recently privatized), and a new market for American goods and services (i.e. rebuilding hospitals and schools).

This article is the finest resource on this topic... "Baghdad Year Zero:
Pillaging Iraq in pursuit of a neocon utopia"

http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. recently privatized<< The real agenda... not democracy, not

civil rights... just the right to own as much of somebody elses stuff as they possibly can so that they can live a life style that is as outrageous as they can. That is our god, that is our agenda, that is our driving force, it is sick sick sick. It will bring down the entire system eventually, it will "eat" itself. You cannot be a country with 5% of the population and consume over 40% of the world's resources... you will "kill" your planet, period.

[KlatooBNikto]

7. This is one of the reasons the Venezuelan recall referendum on Chavez

attracted the support of the Bush administration despite the overwhelming support of the poor people of that country.Chavez's plan to make the oil revenues available for the betterment of this segment of the population riled up the elites.As true Democracy takes root in Venezuela, it will also along with Brazil become a model for other latin American nations and that is something our corporations fear the most.In essence, what the Bush administration calls democracy is anything but.A license to steal (or plunder as Harper mag says) is more apt.

[stellanoir]

3. It is energetically impossible

for a kleptocracy to inspire democracy.

Democracy can only be inspired by the embodiment of democratic principles. The neoconservative oligarchical * administration is utterly incapable of doing so.

So there. . .

[KlatooBNikto]

5. The constant repetition of the word Democracy as though it is a

kind of gift Americans come bearing for the benighted peoples of other lands misleads us and everybody who is within earshot into thinking it is as easy as one, two, three. This is why I think the chances of Venezuela becoming a Democracy are greatly enhanced now and so are the chances of Vietnam.If the U.S. keeps its cotton picking hands out of other countries, may be the people of those countries will find their own solutions and that will be for the best for them and for us, too.

[Arancaytar]

8. Like an elephant teaching a rhinocerous how to dance, I'd say. n/t

[stellanoir]

9. LOL

great analogy !

[welshTerrier2]

10. American style imposed Democracy

i'm in total agreement with your main point that this is not about planting the seeds of democracy but rather about planting the seeds of corporate exploitation ...

with regard to your phrase "American style imposed Democracy", it's important to highlight that our government is not a democracy at all ... and i won't quibble here about the difference between a democracy and a republic as republicans love to do ... the truth is, the U.S. government has been bought and paid for by mega-corporations and their wealthiest shareholders .. the truth is, that the "American style imposed Democracy" is not any kind of democracy at all ...

the one place i'm not so sure you're right is when you speculate that "that is when true Democracy will take root." ... i believe power in Iraq will be fought for via a civil war, no matter what the U.S. does or does not do, and that it's not at all clear that a democracy will take root there as a result ...

[KlatooBNikto]

11. You are right.I was going by the experience of countries as

different as Vietnam, Venezuela or Brazil that have achieved true democracy when we left them alone.There is an equal likelihood that countries may descend into civil war or adopt a theocracy as Iran has done.But these are historically inevitable and for us to muscle in and call our intervention as though it is a panacea to all misfortunes attendant upon a diverse world is nothing short of impudent.It is seven more ironic that Iran chose a true democracy on its own when in 1950's Mossadegh was elected the PM and he was promptly overthrown by the CIA to make room for the despotic Shah who in turn met his match in the Ayatollah Khomeini.For us to rue the disappearance of democracy in Iran is nothing short of hypocritical.

You are also right in your assessment we don't have a true democracy in our country either.If we were, our representatives would be discussing the major assumptions underlying our foreign policy, which,in my opinion, has been one spectacular failure after another.
We are off on another War ( this time on terror) and the wars keep on coming and the enemies, of course, are endless.