Can it be argued that our lifestyle using billions of gallons of gasoline

[KlatooBNikto]

each year to commute back and forth from workplaces to our suburban homes is simply unsustainable in the longterm? Would it then make sense to think we are overpaid for the same work by international standards? Because technology spreads too quickly , are the glory days of increasing productivity of our workforce compared to India or China are just about over?

Any body out there who can educate me whether my simple minded questions are appropriate and if so, what should be our remedies?

[cheezus]

1. take a deep breath and sit down, this is tough

sigh

There are not enough resources in the world for everyone to live like an American.

[KlatooBNikto]

4. My question really is :can even Americans live like Americans say

in the next twenty years?

[MadHound]

7. Actually you're wrong on that friend

There are enough renewable resources available that yes, everyone in the world could live like an American. However, to get to that point would require a massive investment in the infrastructure of the world, and quite frankly, with the short term-max profit mindset of both corporations and governments, that kind of investment isn't going to come around soon.

[Maple]

10. I agree

There are plenty of resources. The first requirement is peace. Then we could get something useful done on a global scale.

[cheezus]

11. i'd like to be that optimistic

got some stuff for me to read?

[MadHound]

18. Sure, not specifics

But read up on such renewable resources as solar, biodiesel, wind, geothermal, etc, etc.

Back in the day, when I was on the high school debate team, the subject for that year was national energy policy. In the course of my research I found several clear references to the fact that if we started to switch over to renewable resources then, that in twenty five years over half our energy needs could be provided with clean renewable energy sources. The year for that topic was 1979. And yet here we are twenty five years later, using more fossil fuels than ever before. Short term-max profit thinking.

So, it is sadly left up to us as individuals to look ahead and do what we can. Me personally, I plan to convert my house over to solar and wind within ten years, and my vehicles over to biodiesel within three. Of course I've got the acreage to set up a windmill, but there are things you can do in an urban setting to tap into renewables. Solar panels have made huge strides in efficiency, and you can whip up biodiesel in your garage.<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?sourceid=00387615287952492864&ISBN=0970722702&bfdate=10-12-2004+16:41:49> And I even knew a fellow who has set up a small windmill in his back yard, in downtown St. Louis.

Not only will you be removing your energy burden from the equation, but such actions will soften the blow for you and yours when the apparently inevitable Peak Oil crunch comes down the tube.

[Tafiti]

49. However, you fail to take into account...

...the fact that every single day on this planet, some biosphere, or natural habitat, etc., etc. is becoming human food. That is, we are literally turning biomass into human flesh at an alarming rate. The planet is collapsing.

The world population is set to double every 37 years or so. Once we start running out of space (and we're already running out of food to feed the world), chaos will surely ensue. 200 living species go extinct every single day. Pretty soon, zoos will be live animal museums, because they won't exist in the wild. What we fail to realize is that human beings depend on other species and the natural environment as much as any other creature. We will not survive without them.

It's time for us to give up this dream of every human being living a grand life together in peace, 'cause it'll never happen. But nobody will abandon that dream until everyone finally realizes that collapse is imminent. We'll see it in our lifetime.

[MadHound]

53. How am I failing to take that into account?

In fact renewable resources would HELP out with world hunger rather than harming it. It isn't just biomass and biodiesel that would help, but wind, solar, geothermal, etc.

And yes, I agree, population control is an issue that has to be addressed, as does deforestation, etc. But at this point in time, energy is the big key, and we need to start addressing it now, either individually or collectively.

Simply preaching doom and gloom will do nothing. It is time for all of us to get out and do something about the problem. I'm working on making my house energy self sufficient, using solar, wind, and biodiesel. I will also have enough left over that I can help out my neighbors, and start using the capitalist market to my advantage, marketing biodiesel. What are you doing?

[Tafiti]

65. With all due respect...

...I do applaud your efforts, and I think it's great you're trying to live in a more sustainable way. As for me, the kinds of things you're doing are neither financially nor physically viable options for me to pursue at this point in time. And maybe I should look into it for future reference.

I used to be optimistic, but it's quickly fading. I don't mean to preach 'doom and gloom', I just think it's too little, too late. That's just what I think. We've totally fucked up a planet that thrived for millions and millions of years in 10,000 years - an infinitesimal amount of time on the evolutionary scale.

[MadHound]

71. I understand your pessemism, but one has to start somewhere

I'm not a man of means either, but a lot of things that you can do don't take much money, can be built into the cost of a house, and will actually save you money in the long run.

Take biodiesel. It cost me aprox one hundred and fifty dollars to get started producing biodiesel, on a scale that is sufficient for my needs. I estimate that within a year or even less, I will have recouped those costs, and more. Meanwhile, I am not using fossil fuels for transportation, and am polluting the air less with my tailpipe.

Many many passive solar projects, like hot water heaters, home heating etc. are also quite cost effective. Remember, a lot of these ideas were cooked up by hippies with lots of imagination, but little money.

Even big ticket items like wind mills and solar panels are coming down in price, some will work as tax credits to bring down your tax bill, most can be built into a home loan, so you can pay over time, and all will save you money in the long run.

These are things that most people can do and can afford. If you still can't afford these projects, there are still things you can do to make a difference, mass transit, bicycling, hybrid cars, etc. Look around you, and let your imagination be your guide. Good luck.

[el_gato]

15. There are NOT plenty of resources available

without grinding up the entire natural world and destroying this planet in an effort to live the piggish lifestyle that Americans do. Even then there is not enough available.

I don't know where you think these resources are supposed to come from.
The answer is to quit fetishizing commodities. We could do without most of the "things" that have been produced by humans.

[Maple]

20. Yes, there are plenty of resources

We are not going back to living in the jungle. Malthusian theory is a load of rubbish.

[MadHound]

22. I agree with you friend on doing without a lot of "things"

But the renewable resources are available, if we did long term investment in the infrastructure for them, to sustain the entire world at roughly the American standard of living. Wind, solar, biodiesel, biomass, geothermal, all of these and more are available for our use.

I've researched this subject on and off for the past thirty years, wishing to reduce my energy footprint on the world, and twenty five years ago it was estimated that with the technology available at the time, renewable resources could be supplying half of the world energy needs within twenty five years. Sad to say, but in that span of time since we as a country have dropped the ball. Instead, we have just opted for more of the same ol' same ol', and stare like deer in the headlights at the catastrophe bearing down upon us.

I'm making changes in my life to further reduce my energy footprint on this planet, and inoculate myself from the coming shock of Peak Oil. You too friend can do the same, I would suggest you do so. Instead of being negative, be positive, figure out what you can do, be it wind, solar, or biodiesel. It can be done, and if enough of us start doing such, we might just save our society and world as we know it. But it won't happen by continously saying NO.

[Maple]

23. Very true

We can do it, but of course it requires changes. Something people don't like. Much easier to run around saying 'the end is near'

[hiphopnation]

74. You put stock in this country's ability to change

on the scale that will be required of them?

[Peak_Oil]

42. There's actually been a lot of discussion on that. links

There's a bbs that's dedicated to discussion of this issue, as well as at least two very good yahoo groups that discuss this constantly.

Yahoo groups
energyresources
runningonempty2

Websites
www.peakoil.com Excellent bbs, fairly active
www.peakoil.net
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
www.dieoff.org


It's my opinion that we're fucked. We've got maybe as much as five years til oil production peaks. We're probably at the peak, and are in the middle of the oil production plateau. It's going to be a bumpy ride til decline sets in, and there doesn't seem to be an alternative rearing its pretty head that will actually solve our problems.

I'm moving to Oregon to a small farm within two years, and I'm bringing my elderly Mom and a couple other people. I hope we pull it off in time.

I'm intensely interested in any comments that would lead me to believe that we have a sustainable alternative that will allow our economy to continue to grow.

Please post links that have up-to-date, useful, thoroughly researched information that point towards any solution for us. I will publicize it immediately.

[MadHound]

45. So you haven't heard of renewable energy resources?

Through a combination of solar, wind, biodiesel, biomass, geothermal, etc we can live through this time of Peak Oil and come out fine on the other end. However we, as a people, have to do a few things. First off, drop the negativity. The attitude of Peak Oil sky is falling paralyzes you, and doesn't allow you to act, other than as a deer in the headlights, staring fearfully at the doom rushing down upon you.

Second, examine your life right now, and see where you could substitute a renewable energy resource. You say that you are moving to a small farm soon. Well that opens all sorts of possibilities, setting up a windmill, putting up solar panels, exploring passive solar potentials.

Third, even now, even in a city, you could easily put renewables into your life, even if in a limited way. Biodiesel is a great alternative to gas, and you can whip it up in your garage<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?sourceid=00387615287953038591&ISBN=0970722702&bfdate=10-13-2004+07:10:47> And once you get out to your small farm in Oregon, think about upping your production to commercial levels, supplying your farming neighbors with biodiesel for their farm equipment. Make sure you don't forget about replacing fuel lines, the only thing you have to do to convert over to biodiesel.

Fourth, start contacting you state and local reps about requiring X percentage of the energy used be supplied by renewables alternatives. Start bugging your local council folks about having the cities vehicles start running on ethanol, or biodiesel. If your local power is a co-operative, you have the power to agitiate for the use of renewable resources.

These are things YOU can do to help. It requires energy and determination on your part, along with probably the most difficult requirement, dropping the negative attitude and instead go out start doing it.

[barb162]

66. you are totally right; people who think there are all these resources

out there ...duh??? I think there have been no major oil fields discovered in the last 20 years. Natural gas is getting rarer, folks. Coal and wood burning pollutes the air. SOlar and wind power don't really provide a lot of energy at all.

[mhr]

26. Actually, You Are Wrong - Do A Search On Earth's Carrying Capacity

What you will learn is that for everyone to live like Americans the world population would need to be less than 1 Billion people.

http://dieoff.org/page112.htm

http://www.ecofuture.org/pk/pkcapcty.html

[MadHound]

30. Well, I think your sources are being rather negative in a number of ways

And making a number of assumptions. The biggest assumption they're making is that technology won't have an effect. Your most recent source is ten years old, and the advances in ag tech, energy tech, etc. is astounding. In addition, they're assuming that we are going to continue to primarily be an oil based society, yet the entire equation changes when we change to renewable resources.

Sorry friend, but it is this type of limited, pessimistic thinking that helps keeps the publics' mindset in the now, not the future. It keeps people from hope, from a sense of purpose, a sense of future. Thus they throw up their hands in hopelessness, and kick the a/c up another notch, party now, for we're all going to die. Instead, take a look at what we CAN do, what IS possible, and you will be amazed at the miracles that can occur. Just look at what we did in eight short years, from '61-'69. We went from the Earth to the Moon in that time, surely in twenty five years or less we can convert the world from a fossil based energy to renewable energy. But pessimistic and short term-max profit mindsets WILL hold us back.

[mhr]

33. Sorry Friend But Yours Is, Rosy Glasses, Limited Point Of View

That believes technology will be our salvation.

Regrettably, you are not up to speed on Peak Oil.

If you were, you would understand that we are about to hit a wall as a species.

Enjoy that Rosy View while it lasts!

[MadHound]

43. You're screaming about Peak Oil, yet say that I have the limited POV

Your focus on Peak Oil is rather laughable. Yes, Peak Oil is coming, soon, if not already come and gone. And my knowledge of Peak Oil and its effects is as great, if not greater than yours. But to expand your focus, there are other, renewable, clean energy resouces. There is no single silver bullet to replace oil, but through a combination of solar, wind, biodiesel, biomass, geothermal and others, we can replace the carrying capacity of oil, with little or no drop in our standard of living.

However if we are to do such, we all need to pull together and start pushing the energy companies and our government to start implementing the programs to bring our vision to life. But if you wish to wallow in doom and gloom, then that is going to accomplish nothing, except fulfill you prophecy. Good job, you're being part of the problem.

If you have a place in the country, put up a windmill. If you live in a city, make your own biodiesel. Write your congressional reps, on both the state and local level, demanding that government vehicles start running on renewable fuels(ethanol, biodiesel). Start demanding that X percentage of your power is supplied by renewable resources. Organize your friends and neighbors, become a force to be reckoned with. DO SOMETHING OK! Otherwise all your doom and glooming is going to turn into a self fulfilling prophecy that effects us all. Gee, thanks.

[AntiFascist]

63. The only power source that has a remote chance of replacing fossil fuels..

are underwater generators that take advantage of ocean currents. Look to Kerry to be the one who would push this development.

[mhr]

76. Your Facts Are Wrong And I Do Do Something - No Longer Drive

Don't Live In A McMansion.

etc...

Regardless of your zeal there will not be enough to go around in roughly 50 years or so.

[natrat]

27. damage is done

we are fucked as a race--which is a good thing. Too bad we had to take the rest of God's creatures down with us.

[MadHound]

31. And mind-sets like that will doom us all

Geez people, am I some sort of optimistic dinosaur? Bring up the possiblity that we CAN survive as a whole, and improve everyone's life and the doom and gloomers come right out of the woodwork.

Look friend, you have a couple of options, either do something to improve this planet, or do nothing and be a burden to those of us who are doing things. If you're not going to do anything positive, at least refrain from the negatives, OK. After thirty years of the same type of BS, it gets rather old.

[mhr]

34. One Phrase - Peak Oil

You are woefully uninformed!

[MadHound]

44. Another phrase-Renewable Energy Resources!

Inform thyself on them, and then go out and DO something. Harping and carping about Peak Oil will indeed bring it about as a self fulfilling prophecy. It is time for ALL of us to do something positive, for we can all add renewable resources to our life, in one form or fashion. So rather than dooming and glooming, inform yourself, educate yourself, then go out and do something to make renewable energy a reality.

[mhr]

75. There Is No Known Renewable That Will Replace Even A

significant fraction of the energy we now get from oil.

Do your research!

Start here.

http://www.endofsuburbia.com

[natrat]

52. wtf dont tell me what to say you asshole

if you cant open your eyes and see what is happening to the earth right before your very eyes dont call it doom and gloom to point out the obvious truth

[MadHound]

54. If you refuse to be part of the solution friend

At least get the fuck out of the way so you aren't part of the problem. You know, rather than dooming and glooming about this issue, YOU can go out and do things so that YOU and others can use renewable resources. Instead of sitting in front of a computer, preaching woe is us, and burning up more of that precious energy, go out and put some solar panels on your roof, or put up a windmill, or make some biodiesel to power your vehicle. Sure, nothing is going to change if we continue the same ol' same ol'. Changing things requires one to get up, get out and actually do something. Why not try that for a change.

[Peak_Oil]

72. Excellent post.

I'd like to hear more from you on this topic. From the research I've done, which hasn't been formal or all that organized, it doesn't look like renewable energy resources are going to come online in time to save our economy from a really bad time coming up soon. I firmly believe that we're in for a very serious stock market crash within the next two years. Oil is an enormously important resource for us all.

Are you thinking that PV and wind will pick up the difference? There seems to be a great deal of resistance to the adoption of these technologies. For some reason, people don't want our country cluttered up with windmills. I see stories in the news about people opposing wind power all the time. PV isn't economically viable yet. I could care less about whether or not it is, we just need to invest in the infrastructure now, while we can.

I'm picking up a mid-80's Mercedes diesel and fitting it with a waste vegetable oil fuel system so I can be a part of the solution rather than a problem. This will be financed by selling my car and motorcycle, which should cover most of the costs involved.

That said, I don't think that we have the political will in this nation to invest in renewable energy resources to the extent that we will continue living the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed. If our economy were to continue to expand then maybe we could.

It's hard to say what will happen, but my hopes for a good life diminish as time passes.

Then again, I look forward to drinking clean water from a pump on my land, and breathing clean air that hasn't been polluted by ten million cars on the road. I doubt there are more than four million vehicles total in the entire state of Oregon. It'll be a simpler, quieter, less affluent lifestyle, but I will have other benefits that more than make up the difference. Fresh eggs and goat milk in the morning, etc.

I'll keep an eye out for your posts in the future. You obviously care about this issue and are attuned to the news on this subject.

[Javaman]

38. Why would living like an American be a good thing in the first place?

Not talking about our gov't or freedoms, we overuse, over buy, over eat, under exercize, spend beyond our limits, collect crap we don't need, eat crap that is barely food, use more resources than a good part of the world combined, and per capita, produce less with those same resources. We are over entertained, under educated, an increasing poverity base, a huge gap between the haves and the have nots, we invade countries on the thinest of reasons, and no national health care.
So not including our freedoms, why would any country want what we have?
The US needs to be lean and mean, not fat and stupid.
Okay, let the flaming being.

[H2O Man]

39. I tend to

agree.

[Kenneth ken]

40. there's the proper question

only a small flame from me; the US needs to be lean and compassionate, not lean and mean - though certainly not fat and stupid.

:hi:

[Javaman]

41. Well put, lean and compassionate. I stand corrected. :)

[Tsiyu]

68. I try not to judge

because I used to think that the nice house and the big SUV and the best educations would make my family healthy, wealthy and wise.

From where I sit now, living a very simple, low impact life, I see how that mentality leaves out the happy part. Things never made any child or adult happy. Money cannot make you happy.

Some people will still have to have the huge energy-guzzling homes and vehicles; some folks will continue to take hour-long hot showers and build massive swimming pools and throw their trash out the car window so their vehicles are "clean."

But people can make choices - converting wasted 'subdivision space' into community gardens, carpooling, exploring other energy options.

I worked with an organic grower nearby whose home was completely cut off from the grid. They used a gallon of diesel a day.

Everyone is not caught up in the quest for crap. Many of us live without the fluff. I definitely know I'm happier than the suburban women I see, clamboring and clawing for some material symbols.

[MISSDem]

69. I agree with you 100 percent. But then,

everyone who knows me probably thnks I am eccentric. Recently, when I said that I don't own a digital camera the group in the room looked at me as though I must be an alien. And that is only for starters. I mean, for God's sake, I don't even subscribe to the dish network or shop at Wal Mart. Obviously, I am a menace to society and probably unpatriotic.

[Lorien]

50. Sorry, but there was a report last year that disagrees

it was from an international environmental study-I think it was commissioned by the UN. The report stated that at current consumption rates (not allowing for population growth), ALL the planets resources would be consumed within 50 years. And no, no National government has the political will to deal with it. As resources become scarce, wars will flare up around the globe. Limiting consumption and zero population growth is what's needed, but does anyone actually think THAT will happen?

[MadHound]

51. Yes, but what about those resources that are renewable

Granted, once again there are few, if any, political figures with the will to pursue such long term thinking. But renewable resources are plentiful, and can make the difference if we would implement them. Since it is doubtful that the short term, profit driven corporations and their government cronies are going to push this issue, it is up to you and me. There are many things that we, as individuals can do in order to promote a renewable agenda. Not only for ourselves, but for others also. Dino-diesel is running at over $2.00/gal. One can make biodiesel for much cheaper, and start selling it to farmers for their equipment, etc. Harnass those market forces for good rather than profit.

[rman]

58. only because a small minority is hoarding most of the resources,

or at least, are hoarding most of the wealth that is created by the labor involved with processing those resources.

[mhr]

2. Lifestyle - See The DVD Documentary - End Of Suburbia

http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

Basically, the American way of life will end because of Peak Oil.

This is what End of Suburbia is all about.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. I feel that for one country to consume over 40% of the world's resources..

while having only 5% of its population, creates a situation in which sweat shops in third world nations, the raping of other sovereign nations natural resources with the help of a puppet government beholden to them those that put 'em in power by helping topple a formerly democratically elected government that cared more about taking care of their own indigenous people than licking the boots of some U.S. politico.

Therefore, in order for a certain group of people to maintain the exhorbitant lifestyle (look outside) that they have, many many others MUST SUFFER and get by with a few dollars a day and work like a fool doing it.

I think a fine read that may or may not directly answer your concerns would be....

All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0471265179.01-ATVPDKIKX0DER._PE32_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

From Publishers Weekly
>>With breezy storytelling and diligent research, Kinzer has reconstructed the CIA's 1953 overthrow of the elected leader of Iran, Mohammad Mossadegh, who was wildly popular at home for having nationalized his country's oil industry. The coup ushered in the long and brutal dictatorship of Mohammad Reza Shah, widely seen as a U.S. puppet and himself overthrown by the Islamic revolution of 1979. At its best this work reads like a spy novel, with code names and informants, midnight meetings with the monarch and a last-minute plot twist when the CIA's plan, called Operation Ajax, nearly goes awry. A veteran New York Times foreign correspondent and the author of books on Nicaragua (Blood of Brothers) and Turkey (Crescent and Star), Kinzer has combed memoirs, academic works, government documents and news stories to produce this blow-by-blow account. He shows that until early in 1953, Great Britain and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company were the imperialist baddies of this tale.<<

This ain't none too shabby either..... tell me how tarnished our white hat is after reading these scale removers.

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 by Steve Coll


Book Description
>>From the managing editor of the Washington Post, a news-breaking account of the CIA's involvement in the covert wars in Afghanistan that fueled Islamic militancy and gave rise to bin Laden's al Qaeda.

For nearly the past quarter century, while most Americans were unaware, Afghanistan has been the playing field for intense covert operations by U.S. and foreign intelligence agencies-invisible wars which sowed the seeds of the September 11 attacks and which provide its context. From the Soviet invasion in 1979 through the summer of 2001, the CIA, KGB, Pakistan's ISI, and Saudi Arabia's General Intelligence Department all operated directly and secretly in Afghanistan. They primed Afghan factions with cash and weapons, secretly trained guerrilla forces, funded propaganda, and manipulated politics. In the midst of these struggles bin Laden conceived and then built his global organization.<<


Heh, heh, heh.... they hate us for our freedom, what a bonehead.

Maybe he should spend a little more time reading about the history of American foreign policy and a little less time choppin wood at his "ranch".

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. I don't think it was intended to be sustainable in the long term

It would probably be healthier emotionally to concentrate on making the short term as pleasant as you can, and enjoy every day.

[KlatooBNikto]

5. Is there any way to stop our children from getting addicted to our

profligate lifestyle?

[DuctapeFatwa]

13. If you have the resources to do so, take them somewhere where there is

a greater probability of a "long term." If you do not, do what you can to make every day a happy one for them, a day that they know they are loved, learn something, and have pleasant experiences. No parent anywhere can do any more or any better than that!

[pscot]

17. Yeah

use up the last of the oil. Then our grandkids will have a neo-neolithic life style.

[Tsiyu]

70. Make them do without

We have a "tentative" water system here. We depend on rainfall to fill the water tables. My kids have learned to NEVER take water for granted.

Take your kids camping. Teach them how to survive without electricity. Make it a challenge.

Stop buying them junk.

Check out books on energy from the Library.

Show them the power bill, the gas bill, and teach them how to read the meter.

Plant something edible ( herbs, etc) and use what you grow in your meals.

Take a walk instead of going to the mall.

TURN OFF THE TV!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Yes. Yes. Yes.

To all three of your questions. We are burning up the natural resources of the earth. "We" do get paid too much to compete with the cheap labor markets in the 3rd world. And, the glory days are not only over, but guaranteeing the ascent of countries like China and India with their huge populations to provide labor and the strength to withstand American incursions into their economy.

As a result, we are turning to military force to protect our economy. Either directly or through surrogates.

Remedies? The United States must become a member of the world community and strive to help emerging economies instead of exploit them.

Don't hold your breath. It's going to get very messy.

[Kolesar]

8. I think that home mortgage tax deductions drive urban sprawl

People are more likely to finance bigger homes with more property and that drives them to the 'burbs and beyond. More simply, it creates a demand for discrete housing instead of rental housing also.

[ramapo]

12. Massive social change is needed

Course it won't happen until long after the shitstorm starts. Imagine SUV (and car) owners who can't get their vehicle fuel and have to pay $4-$5/gal.

Suburbia is not sustainable. There are no magic bullets. We have exactly the wrong infrastructure. Simple as that.

Nobody really thought about this as suburbia grew and the cities crumbled, and few like to think about it now. Sometime in our future the questions will not be avoided.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Yes

I believe that a lot of the "strapped" feeling of otherwise affluent families comes from their having bought into the whole "American Dream" illusion of having to have a brand-new trophy house on the very edge of the urban sprawl (preferably next to a farm so that you can enjoy the illusion of living in the country even as you complain that the cows smell bad), plus, since there are no stores or services less than five miles away, a car (preferably) an SUV or Hummer, for each member of the family over 16.

A trophy house and three or four cars? It adds up.

[burythehatchet]

29. well stated Lydia

the moto-centric culture that has been spawned and thrust upon us is our ultimate undoing.

[gpandas]

16. it cannot be argued against...

all the cool shit that we have is paid for by the future of having nothing

[pscot]

19. We have met the enemy

and he is us.

[gpandas]

28. sad but true n/t

[CAcyclist]

21. We can change

For three years,(actually until just a few weeks ago) didn't have a car - I rode my bike to work and took the train or the bus further distances. Right now I am driving again because of certain commitments but I am going to move to reduce my overall driving and get back to riding my bike more often. I live in a suburb in the Bay area, and this town was born before the advent of car dependency so it is much more efficiently laid out than newer cities, but it is totally practical to reduce our dependency on cars.

One major thing is to stop widening our freeways and adding more freeways. Freeways drive suburban sprawl. Studies have shown that ,on average, people commute about twenty minutes to work - if they can go faster because of a freeway, they are likely to move further away from work. These are choices people make and they can make better choices. One online place to read up on car dependency is STTP- the Surface Transportation Policy Project and a good book to read is Asphalt Nation by Jane Kay

Another thing to consider is that it only takes a small percentage of people choosing alternates to cars to effect massive improvement in congestion, pollution, accidents and oil usage. We could engineer an effective improvement in gas efficiency right now without improving the cars, but by making it safer and pleasanter for people to bicycle and and by criminalizing behavior by those who think it is fun to run cyclists off the road or selfish car drivers who won't yield to bicyclists when the cyclists have the right of way(yes, I can take the full lane legally when I need to for my safety). By encouraging just 10% of people to bicycle instead of drive (the percentage of bicycle commuters in the 70's) we can do more right now than 10 years of better CAFE standards.

And the environmental and social costs of cars go far beyond the use of oil. 45,000 people a year are directly killed by cars in the US and an estimated 300,000 - 400,000 people a year die of inactivity -related illnesses because of the sedentary lifestyles they are used to.

[serryjw]

46. I did it!

I went from a 1400 sg condo in the 'burb of Atlanta to a 550 sq ft apt in Downtown Denver with no car. It is a little inconvenient, put I started a home base business and require less money to pay the bills. Think how much money you spend b/t running your car , your morning Starbucks, daily lunch, clothing, cleaning bills etc. I run my own pot of coffee...and go to the refrigerator when I am hungry!

[welshTerrier2]

24. we can't afford our lifestyles NOW = massive trade deficits

the very blindest fools are those driving their big old American SUV's around our highways ... jackasses ... they are doing nothing but taunting the firing squad ...

your question about sustainability is of paramount importance ... Americans believe that what is will always be ... it is a disease that has befallen most who have have lived their lives inside empires ...

the U.S. empire is in its final years ... even with massive productivity gains among its labor force, self-serving mega-corporations are moving their labor to cheaper markets ... the standard of living and its associated exploitation of planetary resources cannot, and will not, be maintained ... massive federal deficits coupled with massive trade deficits are the scorekeepers of our misguided policies ...

it is beyond tragic that these views are underrepresented in our political process ... the sad truth is, that if Kerry spoke out truthfully about the need for major structural changes and massive sacrifices to "re-balance" the American economy to a more sustainable model, he, and all Democrats, would be sent packing ... it's hard to get people to vote for such very bad news ...

so, what we have, is one party, totally corrupt and hell bent on protecting the wealthiest special interests, and another party constrained to do battle at the margins ... if Democrats are able to seize sufficient power, perhaps they can at least begin to make the necessary changes ...

sweeping changes confront this country over the next ten years ... it's not going to be very pretty to watch ... the discussion we should be having now is on how to make the softest possible landing ... as someone once said, when you're in a deep hole, the first thing you should do is stop digging ... i'm afraid most don't realize the depth of the hole yet ... and I'm afraid they will all too soon ...

[porphyrian]

25. But, think of the money lost by the energy and automotive industries...

I mean, we can't have a minority of billionaires take a hit when the financial burden can be placed on the far-poorer masses.

[Ron Green]

32. Can you imagine this discussion on FreeRepublic????

I'm struck by the clarity and vision of the posts in this thread, and couldn't help but think how the freepers would respond to these issues. They ARE the ones with the SUVs and McMansions (although mortgaged to the gills, most of 'em) and they are somehow convinced that Chimpy will allow them to continue on this path indefinitely. Jesus, I just can't fathom that one-half of our nation's people have their heads that deep in the sand.

[KlatooBNikto]

35. When India and China, with almost 40% of the world's population

achieve a lifestyle approximating American lifestyle, the competition for resources is going to intensify.Does that simply mean all economies based on petroleum are going to go bust and wars of even more merciless savagery will dominate the planet?

[sweetheart]

36. Do you like fish?

If the people of china and india are to eat wild fish, there will be
none left.... the future is farmed fish, with pollutants and toxicity,
regardless of what vehicle you drive.

Yes it is unsustainable, and sadly, the implicit recommendation in
the military globalization of the USA imperium is the presumption that
the USA lifestyle should be emulated. Most people on earth desire to
be that rich and powerful.

You want a remedy... gasoline tax upping the price of fuel to 6$/gallon. Car tax levied using GPS systems that measure a per-mile
charge based on road congestion, engine size and time of day.

You want a real remedy? End corporate personhood.... and everything
else will come out in the wash.

[greblc]

37. It seems to me...

That there is money to be made in Renuable and Non fossil fuel energy. The technology is there. My guess is the Auto industry and oil companies lobby their intrests and not much has happened to make the Green industries viable. We have had problems with Fossil Fuel since the 70's. It's amazing to me that windmills have been around for centuries and we're just starting to see large wind farms being built. This is a tech industry that could provide a large number of jobs and provide a new means to power our nation.

[BiggJawn]

47. "Overpaid"?

OK, granted, I could be one of the wealthiest people in Somalia if I took my $39,000 paycheck and set up in Mogudishu.

But I don't LIVE in Somalia, do I? and neither do YOU.

My standard of living doesn't even approach that of some Europeans.
Go ahead and wallow in your "Oh, GAWD, I'm an ugly American" self-hate, but keep your tar-brush to yourself.

[Spider Jerusalem]

48. It's not just cars.

It's central air conditioning, and five televisions, and three computers, and massive quantities of plastic consumer goods, and 24-hour mega-marts, and all the other hundreds or thousands of tiny little things like that, that make America the most wasteful nation on earth, energy-wise. And the days of increasing productivity for ANYONE'S workforce are just about over. The idea of limitless economic growth and continually increasing productivity is idiocy, and can't work in the real world. Economic growth = increased utilisation and consumption of energy. Energy sources < demand (as will happen soon, with petroleum) = economic decline and maybe even collapse. Which means the end of the party for everyone, not just the US.

[natrat]

55. is it me or is it

or is it obvious that expanding populations and dumping toxins into the air and water spells a quick death to the world as we know it. Runaway freight train. You cant stop it. In the past population was kept in ckeck by this and that. Sure tou can walk to work and put solar cells on your house but if you think your kids or grandkids have a chance at a better life than the average now...Not to be mean but this is smack dab in the middle of mass extinction. Nothing here move along.

[gulfcoastliberal]

56. Cannabis

Is the answer...

[IrateCitizen]

57. It can be argued, and quite forcefully at that.

I read in the book Affluenza that currently, we are using the earth's resources 33% faster than they can be replenished (as referring to clean air, clean water, arable soil, etc.). If every nation on the face of the earth were to adopt "the American way of life", we would require FIVE earths to sustain us.

Our lifestyle is utterly and completely unsustainable. It is unsustainable not only due to the finite supply of fossil fuels, but perhaps more so due to the environmental degradation that accompanies it.

People recall the "dust bowl" of Oklahoma that occurred in the Great Depression, as depicted in the John Steinbeck novel The Grapes of Wrath. That calamity has little on what awaits us should we continue our current industrialized agricultural practices. We are using up topsoil much faster than the earth can replenish it, due to our abandonment of crop rotation and organic farming methods. When this topsoil is gone, there will be HUGE food shortages.

We're also destroying our old-growth forests (home of our most diverse ecosystems) at an alarming rate. Rainforest is disappearing every day, never to return. People like to think that we're distant from the plants and animals that are being wiped out forever, but we're wrong. Our position at the top of the food chain is a precarious one, because it is supported by every other species on earth. Should too many of those building blocks be knocked out, we will come tumbling down along with the rest of the pyramid.

Our way of life is not only unsustainable, but dangerously so. We have substituted gluttony for austerity, wastefulness for simplicity, and gaudiness for modesty. We need to either find another way of living, a way much more in tune with the greater world around us (and each other) -- or we can expect to sow the seeds of our own possible extinction down the short road.

[rman]

59. what in fact IS "living like an American"?

After all, a sizeable part of the US population isn't exactly living in comfort.

[blindpig]

62. relatively speaking

almost any American is much better off than a person of relative social status in most of the world. While it is true that most of us are being gamed by capitalism within our society we're farting thru silk compared to the workers of the 3rd world.

[Im_Your_Huckleberry]

60. yes...

so i bought a 49cc scooter that gets about 75 mpg, and stopped driving my truck to work. some days i even take the bus. do i feel smug? you bet!

[blindpig]

61. we're probably doomed

or at least severely fucked in the short and middle term. Overpopulation, Peak Oil, climate change, all of these problems were foreseen 25 years ago. Carter understood but bungled. Reagan(may he rot...) reversed the positive trends that were developing into an orgy of greed and jingoism. It's not really gotten any better since. Water under the bridge. If crash programs addressing these issues were proposed on 1/21/05 it wouldn't make much difference due to denial and inertia. As far as individual initiatives are concerned, it may be good for the karma of those who can but the vast majority lacks the time, money, education and inclination. Disgusting as it is we still act the part of an hierarchal ape, all watch the Alpha to see which way the wind blows. And the Alphas of society appear unconcerned.
The best we can hope for is the survival of some kind of civilization and perhaps some small percentage of our fellow vertebrates.
If we fail as a species I feel that it will be due the inability of our default social structure to properly use our technological prowess.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

64. We should have proposed crash programs 20 years ago

but the Republicans ran on a platform that included increased oil exploration instead of conservation, among other things.

[IrateCitizen]

67. Embracing the myth in spite of the reality...

That's been the modern-day GOP's stance on these issues. Funny thing is, many of the previous trendsetters regarding environmental protection actually came from the GOP....

[hiphopnation]

73. Here's a great article from Christian Science Monitor

http://csmonitor.com/2004/0129/p14s01-wogi.html

The world has used up about 930 billion barrels of oil since the 1800s, and has left some 3 trillion in the ground. That estimate includes about 732 billion barrels of not-yet-discovered oil and an assumed growth in reserves in already discovered fields, the USGS reckons. So by now, the world has used up about 23 percent of its total available petroleum resource, Mr. Ahlbrandt calculates. Most people using USGS numbers figure world oil output will flatten in 2036-37, he adds. But non-OPEC oil output could peak between 2015 and 2020.

I especially like this little doosie: The competition for oil resources not fully under contract is expected to get rougher. It could be especially crucial for consumers in North America, who on average use up more than their body weight in crude oil each week.

It begs the question, if even those experts making very liberal estimates on how much oil is left give us until 2036 before production plateaus, that's only 30 freakin' years away! That's likely in my lifetime, definitely in my children's!! You'd think that would be close enough for energy companies to get crackin' to make more abundant energy sources available. Of course they have to figure out ways to gouge consumers before they put it on the market. I'm just sayin! :shrug:

On edit: We're definitely consuming more than any other country. And we're lazier, fatter, and stupider than some of the other countries that are fast coming to consume as much oil as we are, China and India, namely. Plus we're like one tenth the population of both those countries combined. You tell me how we fare? I say, not so good. The time when Americans have to reconcile thier comfy way of life is approaching fast. Get ready.

[robertpaulsen]

77. Fantastic find, hiphopnation23!

IHO, peak oil is not a question of if, it's a question of when. With a source as reputable as Christian Science Monitor giving a CONSERVATIVE estimate of 33 years, I would hope this would give even the biggest skeptic pause to think about the consequences of inaction, maintaining the status quo of "the American Way". It's a road to ruin as far as I'm concerned.