To all the war veterans and active duty soldiers

[cally]

My heart goes out to you today. This election brings up the war atrocities and the divisions among you. I'm one of those crazy liberals and I support you. I know that many of you did things you now are not sure was right and witnessed horrific acts by others. You also witnessed acts of courage and humanity. I salute you. You survived, you think, and you are working for a better future. Please just ignore the politicking about your service and survive.

[NMDemDist2]

1. agreed! thank you to all our veterans and their families for your service

and thanks cally for speaking of this

[Dzimbowicz]

2. Thank you cally

As a veteran, I understand that people can still support the troops and oppose the policies which put them where they are.


www.veteransforpeace.org

[TahitiNut]

8. The pecking order: People -> Government -> Troops

When 'We the People' abdicate our responsibility and let our government to engage in predatory militarism, IT'S OUR FAULT. To scapegoat military personnel, especially the most junior of those people, for merely doing what their government has been empowered to tell them to do is the basest kind of cowardice.

[Dzimbowicz]

11. Agreed

[Cleita]

15. If the People still had power, the government

would be held accountable. Why aren't they being held accountable? I want them held accountable. I am one of the People and yet all the power I supposedly have to make them accountable doesn't seem to be worth anything anymore.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cally]

5. Grow up

You are wrong.

[politicat]

6. It must be nice to be able to afford college. It must be nice to not care

about your state and the service of your fellow countrymen.

My husband joined the National Guard to serve his state, to help with disasters and to defend the HOMELAND against invaders. The fact that he went to Iraq I was a political decision made by corrupt politicians who had never seen military service. He also joined for the GI Bill, without which he would not have been able to either support himself through college or support himself as an adult. Working class children RARELY have the money to pay for college, so if you want to perpetuate a system where only the privileged get a higher education, you're in the wrong party.

My brothers joined the Army and the Marines during the Clinton administration, both of them because they believed in the work being done in Bosnia and other places our troops were deployed as part of UN Peacekeeping missions. SOMEONE has to do the job, and they both agreed that doing so was a good use of their talents and a good service to the world and their country. They didn't join up to fight a criminal war but their choices are now limited. Both are currently under stop-loss restrictions. In the civilian world, you can quit your job; neither of my bothers have that option.

But don't you dare equate them to drug dealers. When you've been there, you can talk.

They are heroes - they are serving higher ideals than themselves and for the betterment of lives not related to them. The fact that their superiors are using them in ways contrary to their ethics does not diminish their service. They are really trying to make the world a better place. What are you doing for it other than posting inflammatory bullshit on a web forum?

Put up your service or shut up about theirs.

[Sugarbleus]

20. I missed the "deleted" message but I think I get the gist of it...lol

I couldn't agree MORE with you about certain groups of people who are so narrow minded as to sit on their asses and arm-chair politic about men dying in foreign lands. It's just so juvenile/pollyanna and shows a certain "self loathing" I think.

Talk about being locked into a "mindset" with heavy blinders on!! Talk about painting with one broad brush! Talk about retreating from REALITY!! I'm embarrassed that types like this are in our party!

I respect that a person is non-violent or an objector for true spiritual reasons...........but people "condemning" other's for what they're not willing to do themselves is devilish and IGNORANT.

Yes, there are people in uniform that wig out(same as cops); some that go to war with a certain "black heart" from the git go (same as cops and politicians)...but THAT IS NOT the whole picture nor does it testify to the real heart and soul of a proud military.

I'm sooooooooo glad you opened this thread for this discussion; It has pained me to read so many so-called "anti-war" types POUNDING on everything military! What would this country do if we didn't have a military to protect us when the going gets REALLY ROUGH??? Dissing them now isn't going to curry any favor with them when that rough time comes. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face!

I LONG for PEACE in this world. I yearn for the end of wars. I don't want to see one more flag draped coffin ever! I don't want to see any more carnage from war torn countries stream through my TV. But reality isn't like that. If there is one evil character/ideal anywhere in the world, there are millions. Hell, we have murderous lunatics right here at home--spraying co workers with oozies etc. Evil does abound.

We look for Peace, we strive for peace; in the meantime, we keep our powder dry.

Governments send troops. Troops don't send themselves.

VETS: Thank you for your service--from a grateful, caring citizen!

[Career Prole]

7. Using this board to call veterans criminals, sport?

I guess I'll use it to call you an asshole. :grr:

Rick
A Veteran

[Dzimbowicz]

10. Thanks

I could not have put it better myself.

[Career Prole]

12. My pleasure.

I hope he didn't get tombstoned before he had a chance to read it!
:toast:

[Wilber_Stool]

9. I always miss these.

Damn.

[Sugarbleus]

21. So do I. Why is that? LOL n/t

[politicat]

4. Thank you.

I live with a Vet of Iraq I, have both brothers in the service, a sister who is only recently out, and a Vietnam vet father. It's been hard hearing them all feel like they're being dissed, especially my husband. He feels like everything he did was wasted, and when a group of kids from his unit was killed around the same time as the facking purple heart bandaids, he spent the day locked in his office alternately weeping, writing angry letters to the DOD and White House and RNC and playing blow 'em up video games. (Better to kill electrons than people.)

Pcat

[mailman82]

13. You are welcome.

I just don't understand that only 2% of our country serves in the armed forces. I joined because my Dad was part of the Greatest Generation, he taught me God,country,family. He served in WWII and Korea. I joined at a time that our country was at war. I believed the lie were being told. Right up until we were sent into Laos after the Viet Cong. And we were told to be at the pick at a certain time on a certain day, which we were but there was no chopper to pick us up. That is when I figured it out they had no intention of picking because we were on an illegal mission. We made it back, all 6 of us. Moved through enemy territory for three days. I did not think our country would lie or do that again, the along came *. Same lies.
Yes only 2% of our kids join up. What I would like to see is all the freepers of age join since they think the war is such a noble cause. Thank you and to all my fellow Viet Vets, Welcome Home!

[Dees]

14. You're welcome. Just did what I was asked to do.

My serving in Vietnam doesn't validate my patriotism any more than the next person. I'm just able to speak about certain issues others cannot address.

[Tsiyu]

16. "Shock and Awe" produce PTSD

Nice post, cally. Our soldiers can use our support for a long time to come.

Humans are not designed to withstand constant physical/mental assault. Physiological and neurological changes take place in those who are chronically exposed to life-threatening situations, as well as in those who witness the traumas/deaths of other humans.

A massive number of soldiers suffering from PTSD is one of the prices of the war not covered under *'s plan. Kerry will provide funding for this, I am sure. We should push our legislators and health care professionals to prepare to implement PTSD programs nationwide. Each of us should learn how to recognize PTSD ( it won't be difficult after a while, owing to sheer numbers) and how to spot someone who needs help coping.

This is a gift we can give our brave men and women. Silence sometimes is anything but golden.:cry:

[cally]

17. Too many of our vets are suffering

We need to support them so :kick:

[vetwife]

18. THANK YOU CALLY AND I sent a scathing letter to McCain

I told him his honor was stolen or was it bought? I could not imagine him writing that McCain Feingold bill and allowing the Swift Boat liars to do what they are doing to his brother in arms,. Turning vet against vet. My household has been a nightmare for a day or two. I am furious and I have talked to Skinner and trying to get in touch with Michael Moore and talked to Symbolman.

We have got to stop this. I know what it is doing and I feel like I am helpless and I will get on C-Span somehow and I will hit the talk shows and we should all get in touch with the 4 brothers the Bolano brothers who served in Nam and support Kerry. We need to do something to stop that show and stop the Swift Boat Liars. PTSD is real folks. Nightmares, flashbacks and today my husband could not even remember if he was in Nam or here. This is outrageous and I won't let him watch TV per his Psychiatrist. We pay for those airwaves. Is that fair? I want to sue them.. I surely do. Who has the money? What about vets who have no wives or significant others to guard the TV or radio? Thank you Cally.
My nerves are shot and I have cried since yesterday ! Dammit it needs to stop !

[BeFree]

22. Hang in there Vetwife

I pray you and your's are eventually blessed with peace.

Thanks veterans. Although I am not a vet, I am a son of a vet and I have a feel for all you've endured. It can't be easy knowing what you know now and having to relive some of those awful moments.

Let's hope not too many others have to live with similar events. Peace, eh?

[vetwife]

23. Thanks BeFree but its getting to me..Tonight

I am broken out in a rash..NERVES...I have received phone calls from upset vets as far away as NY. I have to take the calls on the porch as I don't want my vet to get upset. (More than he is) I had a vet call with a gun ready to blow his head off via internet.

My stomach is tied in knots and I am sick of this whole crap ! I love these vets but they can't take this. They can't and I can't make anyone in power understand ! There will never be peace inside where PTSD lives but it lulls down to just pain for those vets when it doesn't drive them to complete rage, sedation or heart attacks.I am in there on the front line with them and I am stressed !

[BeFree]

24. Wished I could help

Those vets need you to be strong. They have lived through worse than anything you have had to endure, so there is that small blessing. Keep doing what you know is right and feed from the energy that myself and others can send you.

These people need you Vetwife. Hang in and don't let it get to you. Easier said than done, I know, but you can do it, you have to, they need you to be strong.

[vetwife]

25. You have helped BeFree..I feel like I'm haning by fingers on the edge

of a cliff. Its what I do and I do it freely. I sure didn't see this Swift Boat thing coming but I should have. After what was done to Max. I feel so very badly for all vets and military families active and otherwise tonight. Those who are so gung ho don't have any idea what they are facing. God bless and rmember me as these days are mounting like a hurricane force on folks like me. Thanks again for your encouragement. If I am feeling this bad, how in the world are they feeling ?

[Sugarbleus]

26. Oh my, Vetw.......I so feel for you

You are a fantastic person with many successes under your belt. I wrote to the sinclair people telling them they should show F 9/11 also.....otherwise they shouldn't show anything...(and other "words" to press my point) :evilgrin: I also begged the question of how come a station can arbitrarily pump propaganda into the living rooms of paying, but unwilling/unsuspecting, customers without a second thought. WHAT'S NEXT? ALL BUSH ALL THE TIME???? ALL RW RELIGION ALL THE TIME?? ALL BIG BROTHER PROPAGANDA ALL THE TIME??? No one gets a say in it? Well, SCREW THAT!

I'm fully aware of the PTSD and secondary PTSD. It's literally a NIGHTMARE. My hubby is Viet Nam Vet. He gets pretty disturbed watching the killing on the tube. He changes the channel.

He even has slight aversions to asian americans ....he's working through that. He is on anti depressants and in an wheelchair.

Oddly "fortunate", he suffered a serious head injury AFTER returning home. It is serious enough so that he's blissfully forgotten some of the horrible memories of Viet Nam. He remembers enough to upset him with this Iraq thing though. But he's not as severely bothered on a daily basis as others are--an occasional nightmare. We figure his head injury wiped most of that out. The guys he went to school with also enlisted; a few didn't come back, a couple were permanently scarred for life, the rest just don't talk about it at all.

When he sees these swift boat creeps on the tube, I can see him bristle with anger.

Yes, McCain and everyone else who are allowing these wounds by the swifties to be reopened are ABSOLUTELY DISHONORABLE and shameful!

You are a champion among many for these Vets. I applaud all of your good works. A crown awaits you, my friend O8)




PS: I'm using a few more sedatives these days. Never thought I'd see the day but I welcome the temporary "relief". =o)

[vetwife]

27. Tell you husband Welcome Home and Thank him for his service !

Bless you for your kind words and I will be thinking of your plight as well.

[Sugarbleus]

19. VERY well said Cally........

I add my heartfelt sentiments for them to yours.

COME HOME SAFE AND SOON :hug:.........Peace~