Don't these people know anything about

[RC]

the separation of church and state? Or care of the ramifications of what they are advocating?
It seems too many believe that the First Amendment says the government must stay out of their religion, but it is A-OK and legal for their religion to be shoved down the throat of the non believers.


Fargo Forum Poll
http://www.in-forum.com/

[teach1st]

1. I sometimes think that if the Bill of Rights...

..was placed on the ballot it would have a hard time getting a majority.

[MercutioATC]

2. I believe it depends on what "public property" we're discussing.

The Ten Commandments DO have historical significance and, as such, do have a place in museums and as part of history/religion studies in schools (as do the writings of other religions).

[RC]

6. Yes, but not on a green space on city property,

As is the case here.

[MercutioATC]

14. I'll agree with that.

I just don't agree with those who make the blanket statement that religious writings don't belong in ANY public institution.

[TahitiNut]

13. Which "Ten Commandments"??

:eyes:

[Bandit]

15. What historical significance do they have in America?

?? :shrug: ?? What role have they ever played?

[MercutioATC]

16. Arguably, this country was founded on Christian principles.

Aside from that, the influence of religion on this country is of historical significance, I believe.

[mmonk]

17. nope

[MercutioATC]

18. "nope"? Care to explain?

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. More arguable, than arguably. Most of the philosophical under-

pinnings of our democratic republic were born of the enlightenment, of the outright rejection of religion which propped up the authority of kings in the old world. Of the founding fathers some were christian, many were deists and a couple were outright atheists. While some of the colonies were started as religious entities, most were economically based. The constitution is the basis of civil law -- five of the commandments deal only with religious law, and of the other five, only 3 can be translated into civil law.

The ten commandments have nothing to do with the foundations of this country.

[Bandit]

20. Actually that is not true at all.

The very first time it came up it was stated without ambiguity that the United States was in NO Way a Christian Nation. This was stated in the Treaty of Tripoli which is "The Supreme Law of the Land"

Some people today assert that the United States government came from Christian foundations. They argue that our political system represents a Christian ideal form of government and that Jefferson, Madison, et al, had simply expressed Christian values while framing the Constitution. If this proved true, then we should have a wealth of evidence to support it, yet just the opposite proves the case.
<snip>
The Founding Fathers, also, rarely practiced Christian orthodoxy. Although they supported the free exercise of any religion, they understood the dangers of religion. Most of them believed in deism and attended Freemasonry lodges. According to John J. Robinson, "Freemasonry had been a powerful force for religious freedom." Freemasons took seriously the principle that men should worship according to their own conscious. Masonry welcomed anyone from any religion or non-religion, as long as they believed in a Supreme Being. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Hamilton, Lafayette, and many others accepted Freemasonry.
<snip>
The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.
<snip>
Unlike governments of the past, the American Fathers set up a government divorced from religion. The establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves about its origin; they knew this as an unspoken given. However, as the U.S. delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of America. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the United States to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

[Blue Gardener]

3. Only 119 votes as of 6 AM CT

We can turn this poll around pretty quickly.

[Political_Junkie]

4. kick

:kick:

[TaleWgnDg]

5. Typically, I would reply w/ my usual knee-jerk saying . . .

"Hey, that's what federal courts are for -- to interprete the constitution's first amendment Separation of Church and State, to tell congress to back-off, and to tell the States that, they, too, cannot do that stuff!!"

However, today, with GWBush packing the federal courts with judges that enjoy placing their own personal views including religion into our federal laws, I find that difficult to say.

And, GWBush is doling out federal taxpayers money in bribes to religious institutions for their collective voting punch!

The agenda of the extremist rightwingers is to turn back the legal clock to 100 years ago. In order to do so, the rightwingers must occupy the White House, Congress, and pack the Judicial Branch. George Walker Bush and his Cohorts have been VERY SUCCESSFUL at doing this.

This is what "small government" is all about.

This is what "tort reform" is all about.

This is what stopping so-called "activist judges" is all about.

And this is what "states rights" is all about.

No effective centralized government to correct the divided states, no laws (and no means) to protect consumers against corporations including no environmental laws, and, oh, yeah, bring in the religions to hand out charity to the down-and-outs. Doesn't this sound like the 1800s?

edited to add graphics (below)

. . . . . . .

[Bronco69]

7. It's being freeped.

75.25% say yes. That's up from the 72.38% earlier.

[lectrobyte]

8. done. yes, 78%, no 20%, 380 votes.

[GoneOffShore]

9. Definitely freeped poll

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[tom_paine]

10. They were just lynching Balcks and Burning Witches

not long ago.

They tried the Age of Reason but didn't like it.

Now they are going to end it, if we cannot stop them, and open up a Medeval Pandora's Box of Horrors.

Although it's impossible to see that from these first tiny baby steps away from post-WWII America.

[elehhhhna]

11. relpace 10 Commandm'ts w/ "Koran" and see how they vote...

[elehhhhna]

12. It's actually the 7 Commandm'ts & 3 Voluntary Initiatives, anyway.