watching F 9/11 for third time now

[pres2032]

at the part where congressman are objecting to election results without a senatorial signature. I feel so sad watching this and can only imagine how sad Gore must have felt. He had to have been on the verge of tears.

[xray s]

1. it has the same effect on me

its like watching a soviet politboro session. its like democracy died.

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Gore should have signed the damn thing.

Sad my ass. He was stupid, IMCPO. The black Caucus had a legitimate complaint and Al Gore didn't stand with them to help them. Shame, shame, shame on every one of those Senators. :(

[Goathead]

6. Gore had no choice

I don't think the President of the Senate can vote in such matters or Gore had to excuse himself on ethical grounds. Not really sure why.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Then he should have

ordered another Senator to sign on. If he told someone else to sign, they would have. That whole thing STUNK to high heavens. :grr:

[pres2032]

8. seriously

Where was daschel? Kennedy???????

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. yup.

They all let this country down and especially the african americans who were disenfranchised. It still pisses me off just to think about it.

[sweetladybug]

14. Gore couldn't sign and no Senator didn't want to sign it because

they were afraid of another civil war breaking out in our country. They did what they thought was best for our country.

[Eloriel]

15. Nonsense. What happened is that Daschle had made a deal

with the Repugs for NO action on this (they all knew it was coming) in exchange for "more equitable sharing" of the Senate resources because the Senate was so evenly split.

He sold us out.

[deadparrot]

3. I just found it awkward that

they had to keep referring to him as "Mr. President."

But yeah, those senators needed a swift kick in the ass.

[Skip Intro]

4. I'm just about to watch it for only the second time

Its actually been many weeks since I saw it first in the theaters.

And yeah, I remember Representative after Representative of the House coming forward yet powerless without the support of ONE Senator - and there were none.

Angry is an inadequate deiscription.

[Goathead]

11. Patsy Mink

Patsy Mink was the only non-African American to stand up with The Congressional Black Caucus. I currently live in her former district, rural Hawaii outside of Honolulu. Sadly, she died in 2002. She is an inspiration to all who seek justice and equality. Patsy Mink was a true patriot.

[rob-ok-vin]

5. watched with my 17 yo son last nite

When it was over all he could say was he wished he was 18 so he could vote. he has listened to dad this season and probably would have voted(if he could)Kerry just because I was but last nite he asked why is this man our president. It gives me hope when my 22 yo daughter 20 yo daughter, and now 17 yo son can see what 48% of this country can not

[Goathead]

9. I also watched Farenheit 911 last night for the second time

My girlfriend had never seen it before and I wanted to remind myself of the evils of this administration.

[rfrrfrrfr]

13. Reality check time

This is actually one of the weaker moments of the film. While factually accurate it does not go into any detail of what would have happened had a Senator objected. Here is what the procedure is.

If a Senator and a house member sumbit a written objection to the vote count certification both houses will adjourn and debate the objection seperately. They can choose to uphold the objection and not certify the vote/s in question or override the objection and certify the votes as is.

Given that at the time both houses of Congress were controlled by republicans the most likely outcome would have been few hours delay before they overrode the objections and certified the elections anyway.

If by some miracle the objections were upheld then since neither candidate would have had 270 electoral votes the election would have been decided by the house of representatives. Each state gets 1 vote and 26 votes wins. Republicans having control of 28 delegations in the house would again after a short delay most likely certify Bush as the winner.

So in summary Even if a Senator had objected the outcome would have remained the same after a day or two delay at most. At the time very few people though Mr. Bush would be the divider and total disaster as president he turned out to be. Most people like myself figured he would be bad, but not this bad.

So while in hindsight it may have been a mistake and the Democrats should have gone down fighting, their actions were an attempt to make the best of a no win situation, and for what was known at the time the most sensible course of action.

So while I think they should have gone down fighting I understand why they did what they did and the reasoning behind it and given the circumstances can not fault them for what they did.

[Eloriel]

16. Here's what you're missing -- and it ain't procedural

We ALL know, but thanks for the refresher, that it would not have resulted in a different outcome of who sat in the White House. No big deal there, at all.

What you're missing is this:

FIRST AND FOREMOST you stand UP for what's right, to confront injustice and wrong. That election was STOLEN; 60,000 - 90,000 Floridians were disenfranchised. No matter what the outcome, you STAND UP FOR THAT.

Second, you let the commander-in-thief know we're onto him. You put him on notice that he's not going to get away with ANYthing, that we (they, our Dem so-called Leaders) will hold him to account for ALL his transgressions and that NOTHING untoward will happen on their watch.

THAT way, you let people who were disenfranchised (and the rest of us who ALSO were disenfranchised by virtue of their disenfranchisement) know SOMEONE aside from the courageous CBC knows what they went through and give a damn by standing up for them;

you put yourself as the "loyal opposition" in a far more powerful negotiating position vis a vis an illegitimate administration and a Congress controlled by enabling, complicit Repugs.

Instead, they rolled over. They fucking rolled over. They let us ALL down -- no, they BETRAYED US; they let -- no, BETRAYED democracy ; they let the world down because NO ONE WHO STEALS AN ELECTION does so to "do good."

Yeah, the person sitting in the White House would've been exactly who it is now. But that's not the end of the story by any means.

[rfrrfrrfr]

17. I didn't miss anything.

I said I believed they should have gone down fighting.

I just also understand why they did what they did and why they felt it was the best thing to do at the time. Given what we know now, I bet there are plenty of senators who feel differently about not supporting their fellow congressmen.

The point being that many of the senators that choose not to fight are still running for office. One of them being Mister Kerry himself and that we need them to win this time to get rid of Bush and hopefully retake congress.

So while What they did may not have been the best route to take, it is understandable why they did what they did and should not be held against them.

[Booster]

21. I also read that Gore told each and every one of the Democratic

Senators that he did not want them to sign, so they were doing as he asked. Gore knew what would happen and decided he would rather have it the way it was than having a Republican Senator decide (I think it would have been Hassert (sp); he decided his own fate.

[pres2032]

23. had to have made it all the more painful

no wonder he grew a beard and got fat afterward.

[nonconformist]

19. Well I fault them. They abandoned us all when we needed them most. nt

[unkachuck]

10. everytime I view F 9/11...

....it gets better and better....Mike has made this film work on so many levels....

[friesianrider]

18. I sobbed when I saw that...

And I still cry when I see it. It quite literally breaks my heart. I wonder, if we have a contested election this year, will any Democratic Senator speak up?

Also, why wouldn't some of the more "liberal" Senators have signed it? Where was Wellstone? Kennedy?

[nonconformist]

20. I tear up at that point

Out of frustration with the Democratic Senators and out of sadness for all those people that DID try to do something while the rest of our party just sat around and watched.

[pres2032]

22. imagine what Gore was thinking

betcha the tears were a nano-second away