Demand Letter To Bush From Karl W. B. Schwarz - Details A Conspiracy

[InfoMinister]

This has been circulating around the net for a few days. An individual claiming to be Karl Schwarz has appeared on the Kerry message board. You can find that huge thread here. People are trying to figure out if this guy is actually legit or not and I'm still not entirely convinced myself.

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=95271

This was his letter:

"Demand Letter Sent To
Bush By Corp CEO
From Karl W. B. Schwarz
President, Chief Executive Officer
Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC
10-13-4

By Email, By Facsimile to White House

Mr. President,

I am a Conservative Christian Republican that has no intentions of voting for you in this year's election and many other Conservative Republicans are following me.

America demands the TRUTH and not after the elections; this nation demands the truth from you RIGHT NOW! This letter and an identical email will be going out to hundreds of thousands by me, millions by others. The following content was sent to the White House by facsimile earlier today from Ground Zero in New York City.

1. I demand as an American citizen that you lift the "gag order" on Sibel D. Edmonds and let Americans know what foreign names and what AMERICAN NAMES she uncovered in her FBI translations that were involved in drug trafficking, money laundering and the financing of 9-11. Her facts and your "official story" lies do not add up. Americans demand the truth on that matter before the election.

2. I demand to know what energy companies were in that Cheney Energy Task Force meeting and what discussions there were as to the steps that would be taken to remove the Taliban and Bridas Corporation as the last remaining obstacle to the United States controlling the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. I met that company in 1999 and have known since then about the Bridas v Unocal, $15 billion interference of contract lawsuit in US District Court, Southern District of Texas. I also know about the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals decision on September 9, 2003 that upheld the Bridas $500 million arbitration settlement and the March 22, 2004 denial of Writ of Certiorari at the United States Supreme Court, Case 03-1018, Turkmenneft v Bridas.

3. I demand to know how many prisoners are being held at GITMO and other places that are either BRIDAS EMPLOYEES or are persons that know all about Bridas Corporation and what your administration did to get control of that Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

4. I demand to know how many board meetings Condoleezza Rice and Thomas Kean sat in on at Chevron and Amerada Hess where it was discussed how they were going to deal with making the billions in "Big Oil" investments into a land locked Caspian Basin and how to get rid of the Taliban and Bridas so they could turn those investments into cash flow. How many times did Big Oil ask for military force to complete a commercial transaction they could not get under their control, and on what exact date did you agree to provide such military force - prior to 9-11? Isn't it true Mr. Bush that the Cheney Energy Task Force discussed that attack on Afghanistan and removal of the Taliban / Bridas obstacle once and for all - and did so well in advance of 9-11?

5. I demand to know why you appointed 10 persons to the 9-11 Commission, 8 of which are directly benefiting by the Taliban / Bridas "contract" obstacle being removed - breached with military force, and the big Caspian Oil deals that are now coming to market. No, America does not 'thank you' for that nor do we hold such despicable conduct up high.

6. I demand to know what US Oil Company stepped up as the sponsor of that OPIC and Asia Development Bank funded Trans-Afghanistan pipeline and what US company is constructing that pipeline right now, and what US firms are supplying the key components and their relationship to your administration.

7. I demand that you identify the company and persons who were going around Bridas to be "natural gas suppliers" to the US owned natural gas electrical generation plants in Pakistan (Dynegy - Illinova /Tenaska, El Paso (2 OPIC financed transactions) and others.

8. I demand to know why you have not been truthful with the American public that your GWOT and military policy are protecting the Caspian Basin Oil and Gas deals for many of your Bush Pioneers, some $9.6 trillion in oil and about $3 trillion in natural gas, now mostly in the hands of your elite wealthy contributors and some elite Liberals to keep this all quiet.

9. I demand to know what role the post-bankruptcy ENRON (Prisma Energy International, Cayman Islands) is playing in the Caspian Basin area, the same Enron that uses the law firm of Mayer Brown Rowe & Maw that established the offshore SPE's for assets that were never under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

10. I demand to know why you appointed Richard Ben Veniste to the 9-11 Commission when it was his law firm that was stalling Bridas Corporation at the Fifth Circuit US Court of Appeals in the matter of Bridas Corporation v. Turkmenneft and his law firm is directly involved in Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and your administration.

11. I demand to know the exact date of the order that had our military practicing in early 2001 the invasion of Afghanistan to take out the Taliban and Bridas Corporation and make that pipeline under control of US interests, many of your Bush Pioneers, and the exact date that our military started practicing and preparing for that invasion.

12. I demand to know who Remington Holdings Ltd is, and Western Acquisitions, Inc, both Baker & Botts clients and the lucky recipients of OPIC financing to acquire oil and gas deposits in Pakistan.

Who are the parties involved in those entities by name and benefited from such governmental magnanimity? Is this transaction a payoff? Since American taxpayers are footing the bill, we have the right to know - right now.

13. I demand to know why you could not find 10 people to sit on the 9-11 Commission that are not directly benefiting from the actions you have taken and the lives you have cost or otherwise ruined. Why would you select people not motivated to find the truth for that would impact "their bottom line"?

14. I demand a full disclosure from your administration as to the Citibank / IFTRIC / OPIC / Export-Import Bank financing of American / Israeli based deals in Islamic nations on behalf of your major campaign contributors.

"IFTRIC and Citibank have an agreement allowing Citibank to finance approved IFTRIC-backed transactions. Citibank Israel CEO Nandan Mar said: 'The Citibank branch, and the Structured Trade Finance Group, view IFTRIC's program as a basic product for the bank's domestic activities.'"

I see distinct differences between "terrorism" and "outrage" (Shurtan II) at your policies.

15. I demand to know why you wanted an entire new division of the CIA for Argentina. As an American citizen I take umbrage to your belligerence towards a nation that is not an enemy of the United States by any stretch of the imagination, except possibly yours. It is abundantly clear that your intentions were solely to intimidate Argentina and Argentina based Bridas Corporation into silence and that is NOT AMERICA. That has every appearance of the United States acting as the terrorist and a state sponsor of terrorism. Yes, you are wrapped in a flag but I clearly see that it is not the one you purport it to be.

16. I demand to know why your administration has never disclosed that DynPort Vaccine, LLC, owned by DynCorp and now owned by Computer Sciences Corporation, a Bush Pioneer, is a possible source for where the weaponized Ames Strain of anthrax came from that was used against this nation. How did your administration manage to miss one of your campaign contributors and a company doing large volumes of business with your administration and even being known euphemistically (DynCorp) as The Mercenary Company? Who put that Contract on America?

17. I demand to know how you can claim a pretense of being a Christian while sponsoring and condoning the torture of prisoners, including sodomizing children, at Abu Ghraib prison.

18. I demand to know how your administration can send firms overseas as "representatives of this nation" that were convicted of running a flesh trade in little girls in Bosnia, specifically one DynCorp. Convicted in Texas and the United Kingdom according to reports I have seen and apparently detested in Afghanistan. You do recall that DynCorp is the company providing security to protect your puppet Karzai in Afghanistan and your other puppet Zalmay Khalilzad is deterring anyone from running for President in that bogus "free" democracy?

19. I demand to know why your administration keeps running the name and photos of Adnan G. El Shukrijumah as the "dirty bomb boogeyman" and on March 25, 2003 the FBI knew exactly where to find him and did not go after him. That telephone call was made from my telephone by a Canadian friend that was in Little Rock on that date, Mr. Bush, so do not pretend "national security" with me.

I am "first person" on this matter and all of America deserves to know the extent that your administration has been and is lying to us all - and someone that is not Al Qaeda is probably "dropping a suspect name" as they set up a dirty bomb attack. Sure have pushed up the oil and gas prices with your strategy though, guess we can consider that another "Mission Accomplished".

20. I demand to know why your administration keeps referring to Adnan G. El Shukrijumah as a "Saudi" when the FBI knows full well he is not Saudi. His family is from Guyana in South America and they have lived in Florida since 1986 without incident. His grandparents were from Yemen, moved long ago to South America and his mother is from Trinidad & Tobago.

21. I demand to know why you alerted India, Pakistan and "Axis of Evil" member Iran of your intentions to attack the Taliban / Bridas well before 9-11, and not notify the citizens of this nation. That matter was reported on June 26, 2001 in India newspapers.

22. I demand to know the exact date that the first meeting, first page of the Patriot Act was started by your administration.

23. I demand to know why it is you, your backers, certain Democrats that apparently "hate our freedoms" more than these purported GWOT Islamic fundamentalists, hence the Patriot Act that treats all Americans with the same degree of contempt and disdain you treat all non-wealthy Americans.

24. I demand to know why Homeland Security is protecting this government and not protecting this nation.

25. I demand to know why any dissent or objections to your Orwellian, imperialistic, pro-corporate agenda is referred to the Homeland Security Counter-Terrorism Division.

26. I demand to know why you defile everything you touch and try to twist it into something that is pro-Bush Backers and anti-American citizens and then try to alter our rights as Americans via Patriot Act measures that are designed to force America into submission and does nothing to protect this nation, only this government.

27. I demand to know why your administration is planning a "pro-Bush Pioneers pharmaceutical program" derived from TMAP (Texas Medical Algorithm Project) and PENNMAP (Tom Ridge, Pennsylvania) to have Americans tested under guidelines prepared by your Bush Pioneers and force psychotropic drugs on Americans.

28. I demand to know why your administration keeps injecting our troops with an anthrax vaccine known to be deadly and harmful to the health of our soldiers and now apparently wish to inject that into all Americans under Project BioShield and martial law. Is that why you have no concern whatsoever for the 3 million jobs lost, for between your TMAP lunacy and Project BioShield lunacy, well over 3 million Americans could perish if the same statistical rates hit the general population as has hit our military? Can you explain away Holocaust with "brilliant strategy policy" driven by unmitigated greed?

29. I demand to know why Li Ka-shing was denied Global Crossing on national security grounds (very public) yet allow him in the back door in Savi Technology (not disclosed), the RFID technology company that is purportedly protecting our ports from insertion of a nuclear bomb into this nation via "ocean going containers". How many doors are left wide open by your administration in this GWOT Fable?

30. I demand to know why you search the world for mythical terrorists and cannot find robber barons and financial terrorist right under your nose. That many of them are Bush Pioneers and even backers of the Democratic Party, and have plundered the investors, workers and citizens of this nation, is very apparent to Americans and not very pro-family on your part.

Christians do not lie, Mr. Bush, for that is an affront to God. A Christian would not willfully mislead this nation, nor send our troops into Harm's Way for a lie while your wealthy contributors take over a $9.6 trillion oil, $3.0 trillion natural gas deal and already maneuvering for Africa. You are proving to the world that you are terrified of the truth and have impeded every investigation into the truth.

Your actions prove that you are not an upstanding Christian, nor are you a Conservative Republican worthy of that designation.

Your position as President does not make you unaccountable to the citizens of this nation, nor does it entitle you to act as a tyrant, an emperor, or serving only those Americans that dole out money for your political ambitions and agendas. I see no "stewardship" in your conduct whatsoever.

You have "Mission Accomplished" three times - the removal of Taliban / Bridas to control that pipeline, radically escalated the price of oil and gas for some of your major backers, and the death and maiming of many due to your lies. Your "Iraq Strategery" makes perfect sense to me, since all of you needed a diversion away from Afghanistan, the Caspian Basin and what you did to Bridas Corporation to get control of that $9.6 trillion in oil, $3 trillion in natural gas.

Go back home and wrap yourself in the flag of Texas and the shame you alone are responsible for creating. Your resume is your doing and yours alone.

If you were running against me this year, you would not have the guts to stay on the stage in a debate with me.

Shame on all of you, both sides of the aisle that have lied to America and gotten so many killed and maimed for a lie, and no, I am not an antiwar person. Just adamantly opposed to what you stand for, for that is lower than Clinton on his worst day.

Sincerely,

Karl W. B. Schwarz
President, Chief Executive Officer
Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC"

[juliagoolia]

1. this might help

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/092404Schwarz/092404schwarz.html

[juliagoolia]

3. from the article in online journal

Karl W. B. Schwarz lives in Little Rock, Ark., and is the author of "One-Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas, a Conservative Republican Speaks Out." He is the President and Chief Executive Office of Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC and I-nets Security Systems, a designer of intelligence and UAV systems. You can email him here.
Has an email addy on it.

[InfoMinister]

5. Yeah, He's Talked About All of That

He's been saying a lot on that Kerry forum thread about where he lives, his business, and other information.

[juliagoolia]

6. There is a Reg voter

Karl W Schwarz in Little Rock Arkansas..

All I can say that is true for sure.

[juliagoolia]

10. this may help too

http://karmakat.typepad.com/picasso_dreams/2004/10/teh_real_karl_s.html

lengthy..but ..maybe worth a read.

[Pragmatique]

86. K.I.S.S.

The message is far too complex to influence voters. One reason the recent debate formats relegated the debaters to one minute thirty second responses is because that's about the limit to the attention span of the average voter in assimilating complex concepts.
K.I.S.S.= Keep It Simple Stupid.

[seemslikeadream]

2. Couple threads

Christian Republican CEO Sends Bush Demand Letter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2486940

A funny thing happened on the way to 'The Truth' - By Karl W. B. Schwarz
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2485349

[InfoMinister]

4. The Kerry Board Is About To Have A Flamewar About All of This

A few users aren't convinced that this guy is legit and he's getting a little agitated at the users that are saying he isn't telling the truth. It would definitely be interesting if he actually is legitimate. I'll keep on checking out what he has to say. Be sure to do so too. He's posted parts of his book and a lot of interesting information.

[shraby]

9. Find the Sibel Edmonds thread in the archives

He's spot on about the Caspian Sea oil. We researched it for the thread.

[starroute]

74. "Sibel Edmonds translated Farsi"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2238307

Warning -- huge and slow-loading.

(Came right up in a Google search -- easier than trying to search DU archives. I guess that means someone's been looking at it. :) )

[KWBS]

121. SIBEL EDMONDS

speaks 5 languages fluently, English, Turkish, Arabic, Farsi and Azerbaijani

[Pallas180]

175. Here's the link to "Sibel Speaks Farsi" and she also speaks

Azberjani.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2238307

[Beam Me Up]

7. HOLY CAMOLY, Karl, why aren't YOU running for pres?

Not selfish and greedy enough? Too idealistic? Still have a conscience??

Amazing!

[InfoMinister]

8. He Might Come Here

I posted a link to this forum so maybe he'll show up on here as well. So you may be able to ask him some questions if he chooses to do so.

[Philostopher]

12. He may get the same welcome he's getting elsewhere.

Not to make ablanket negative statement about DU and DUers, that's not what I'm saying -- but some people here feel like we've been kicked around enough, and may not take him seriously or believe he is who he says he is here, either. I hope if it's upsetting him to have his identity questioned on the Kerry message forum, he'll be prepared to possibly meet the same sort of greeting here.

Not saying it'll happen, but if you see him show up here, by all means make sure he knows he may be questioned and viewed with suspicion here, too. DUers tend to ask for a lot of corroboration, just like other people who feel they have a right to be somewhat paranoid.

[InfoMinister]

14. I Sent Him An E-mail As Well

He's going directly to this thread so I guess he'll see what you have to say. That is if he actually chooses to come on here. I remember he was talking about how an individual who had more information wasn't able to get onto the Kerry board because they hadn't gotten the confirm e-mail. Maybe that individual will be able to post on here as well.

[Philostopher]

22. I would never discourage anybody, don't get me wrong.

I love DU as a social forum and a resource for information, and for the most part, people here are great or I wouldn't have hung around since the summer of '01. I just know that people who come in claiming to have knowledge or connections they can't prove easily can sometimes be grilled. Not saying it would happen this time, just that it can.

[KWBS]

81. TAPIRLOVER

is an affiliate out of CT. She finally got on to the Kerry board. Seems AOL is blocking her since she is doing such a great job of informing Americans about the Bush Junta.

She will make it here eventually.

Karl

PS she is the one that sent the fax to Bush from Ground Zero. Made her day to be involved.

[Pallas180]

177. As far as the pipeline and the Caspian, we have investigated that & know

it to be true..

We could take a look at the Bridas corporation....we didn't know about
the lawsuits or Bridas....but the rest of it about Afghanistan, Iraq,
Azberjain and the Caspian Sea Oil and the oil companies and government officials involved is absolutely true.

And more, that he hasn't mentioned...which you can find in "Editorials" . Look for "American Judas" by Robert Paulsen.

Guess who sold dual use nuclear/oil components to Libya, Iran,Iraq, Syrria, Pakistan, hell - you name the country - "mystery
guest" sold it to them - oh yes - including North Korea.

Tracked through all the "shell" offshore corporations under different
names.

Sibel said "certain elected officials would be tried for treason if the truth was known".

I suspect we all would have to make an awful big stink to accomplish that.

[Beam Me Up]

17. I'd welcome him!

I don't know enough to ask him intelligent questions, but I'd sure be willing to read anything he has to say about what the hell is going on. I'm not new to this DEEP POLITICS perspective but what I want to know is, DO WE HAVE OUR DUCKS IN LINE? Are we READY to bring out into the open DEEP DEEP SHIT that has been going on through the auspices of the "National Security State" since well before the assassination of Kennedy?

May the truth be told though the heavens fall.

You go Karl.

[leesa]

11. Whether he is legit or not, it raises some great questions.

I, too, would like to know what happened with Bridas. I remember them losing the pipeline project after Argentina was trashed. But then the 'oh-so-convenient for US oil interests' 9-11 occurred and it was swallowed up in that nightmare. OBL/Taliban did 9-11? My ass! Only if they were on our payroll.

[juliagoolia]

13. check this out.

http://www.summeroftruth.org/images/karl_schwarz.ppt

[robertpaulsen]

15. Kicked and bookmarked.

Damning litany, I must say!

:kick:

[Oilwellian]

16. Interesting

Everything mentioned in Mr. Schwarz's demand letter, has been investigated and discussed here.

Mr. Schwarz, if you read this thread, know there are many of us who have the same questions for President Oilwellian. God help us all if he's re-selected.

[juliagoolia]

19. interview with Schwarz

http://www.dougbasham.com/base.html

[Minstrel Boy]

21. listening to it now

I'm more impressed with him than ever. Smart, credible guy.

http://www.dougbasham.com/KarlSchwarz.mp3

[Beam Me Up]

18. More about WHO KARL IS can be found via this link:

Go here:
http://karmakat.typepad.com/

Then look on the left hand side for links.

You can well imagine how unfashionable it is to DC to have an RNC insider that spent 1994 election night with RNC Finance (the Team 100, big league insiders) and in 1996 told them to stick the "Contract with America" when he had enough inside information to know with certainty that it was a "Contract ON America".

All about the Corporatization of the U.S. government" and that is by sheer definition Fascism. That is why I pulled out and went The American Way.

The book will be available soon via www.rbnlive.com, or Republic Broadcast Network. I was surprised that Matthew had something to say to you on this arcane site, albeit a good site.

Do stay tuned to www.onlinejournal.com. The DC "acid stomach" is about to commence.

If you think what I have disclosed thus far is a wild fire, the next round is thermonuclear. Many will resign, many will hide in shame, some will probably commit suicide.

After my post yesterday, John Fund's attorneys were begging to settle within 6 hours after news hit. That is the power of the truth.

It is way past time that America flushed the toilet in DC.

[KWBS]

20. I am mad as Hell at GWBush

Hello Board, I am Karl W. B. Schwarz. I am the author of the letter that went to George W. Bush, however, that letter went out by email and by fax from Ground Zero on September 30, 2004, about 7 hours before the first debate.

I have come to post here at the request of someone on the Kerry board.

As the letter spread, someone put the date that they discovered it, not the actual date that it went.

That both parties had that information and neither said a word should be telling to all when they know the facts.

This is the header of the email that is posted on this web site with a brief explanation as to who received the letter.

"""Note - Natalie Jones is senior asst to Peter Maroney, DNC vice-chairman and [e-mail] is Mike Gehrke, head of Kerry research. You might wonder why both sides have run from this letter that went by email and by fax from Ground Zero.

-----Original Message-----
From: Karl W. B. Schwarz
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:13 PM
To: President@Whitehouse. Gov
Cc: Natalie Jones; [e-mail]
Subject: An American demands the truth from you

September 30, 2004 By Email, By Facsimile to White House
Mr. President,


I am a Conservative Christian Republican that has no intentions of voting for you in this year's election and many other Conservative Republicans are following me."""



The rest of the letter you already have.

If you check the John Kerry Forum under this same topic - you will find much information you need to know and distribute to help defeat Bush:

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=95271&st=30


I am a devout Christian, Conservative Republican, former RNC insider and I clearly see Bush Cheney as Fascism and I know firsthand that people on both sides of the aisle are involved.

There is much on the Kerry forum that is out of the book I wrote, One-Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas, a Conservative Republican speaks out.

So, will not belabour the point by posting it all here, but have shown you where to look.

I noted in the links that Kelly Ann's post is here, but not her retraction:

http://karmakat.typepad.com/picasso_dreams/2004/10/karl_schwarz_an.html

Unlike many who sit around and theorize, we have had direct communications.

There is much more coming, especially OnlineJournal.com. She is collaborating with Meria Heller to get the truth out and has given me two key articles as the lead on her main page, the one on Security Moms and the one on the Hypocrites.

This is coming and I have been bombing the paths clean for her.

http://www.citypages.com/databank/25/1244/article12523.asp

We found some of the names in what we do, she knows all of the names.

See also http://baltimorechronicle.com/050704SibelEdmonds.shtml

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/091504Madsen/091504madsen.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/092404Schwarz/092404schwarz.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/100204Schwarz/100204schwarz.html

I keep mentioning Sibel for a reason.

The truth is coming and it is very ugly. I have a piece coming out on OnlineJournal.com that may well cause suicides in DC and corporate America.

I am on www.meria.net Oct 20 from 10-11 PDT and one day this week or next am on AmericanAM out of Tampa from 7-9am EDT.

Will be on soon for my third show with John Stadtmiller National Intel Report, www.rbnlive.com.

There is literally a battle for this nation going on and this is where they think they have all of us:


“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there's an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a ~one-world government combining Supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976,
killed 1983 in the Korean Airlines 747 by the Soviet Union.



I am voting for Kerry because I know what the Neocons are after. GWB is just a puppet and he has to go for the good of this nation.


Check onlinejournal.com this week. More coming.

Read the Kerry forum link.

Google "Karl Schwarz Truth" and you can see to what extent one voice can make a difference.

Most of all, let all you know - know that much truth is surfacing about Bush Cheney.

I was a key presenter at the 9-11, Confronting the Evidence.

See www.summeroftruth.org and find the link by my name to the PPT. That alone has caused over 37,000 Republicans that I know of to pull out on Bush.

The truth hurts and GWB has a lot of truth to face, including treason.

best regards,

Karl

[RollergirlVT]

23. Welcome to DU Karl

You certainly have a great deal of information. Are you our October surprise????

[salin]

24. Welcome, Mr. Schwarz.

This liberal Christian, thanks you. We may not agree on the "how to get there" on some things (which used to be the difference between conservative and liberal - not the ends - but the means) - but if our Christianity guides us both - then I would guess that our desired ends (greater economic and social justice for all) are shared. Kudos for your courageous letter.

[anarchy1999]

35. Thank you.

Whoever you are. If you aren't for real, thank you anyway for asking the right questions. You are a true patriot and a hero.

[juliagoolia]

25. Thank you

If I can be of any help at all please let me know.

I am listening to your radio interview with doug Basham now.

Aren't you scared?

[IdaBriggs]

26. Welcome to DU.

Anything I can do to help? I'm not much good in the way of money, but if there is anything I can do, please let me know. Respectfully, Ida M. Briggs

[juliagoolia]

28. What makes anyone think that

This will (if proven true) will not be merely dismissed like everything else.?

[Occulus]

30. Did you ever see "Deep Impact", I think it was?

There's a scene in that movie where two people are standing on a beach waiting for the tidal wave from the comet, but before the wave hits, the trough hits. ALL the water near shore got suddenly sucked away, even past the point where the ocean bottom dropped off.

I think (hope, pray) that this will end up being something like that.

You're right, though.... how can any of us trust, not that it is or not true, but that if true, it will finally be that final snowflake that causes the avalanche?

Time will tell, I guess.

[anarchy1999]

38. Are you not fun? and Welcome to DU.

You've got lots of something I can't say. Nerve, though I can say. Once again, Welcome to DU, I don't think you'll be here for long.

[RobertDevereaux]

45. I too extend a warm welcome to you!

[BeHereNow]

94. Because it closes the gap.

The facts, and I repeat FACTS, in Karls' letter
are true and are not partisan issues- they affect all
Americans equally.
Too long the people in this country have been
mesmerized by the illusion of a two party government
debating things that the multi nationals don't care
a bit about. All the while they have been busily
concentrating POWER. That is all they care about
and power is what Americans have no concept of.
They think they have gained some "power" if
their "side" wins a vote about abortion or some other
knee jerk topic. The corporates understand POWER
and they have taken it from WE the people.
We are living under a fascistic GLOBAL government
based in the American White House and led by
American CEOs. IF we can get this information
out to all the people in this country, dems and repubs
alike will join together to oust the theives and murderers.
BECAUSE the facts effect them EQUALLY.
They are based in what MATTERS to everyone.
WE as a people have to come together on what MATTERS
or we are doomed.
BHN

[Desertrose]

172. AMEN and a kick

We have to WAKE UP and see what really matters!!!

Great thread & welcome to DU, KWBS :hi:

Thank you for speaking out....we need to spread this far & wide!!

Blessings
DR

[Occulus]

29. Well thank you for stopping in

So, will the feces hit the rotating air mover thickly enough to clog it to a stop? That's what you're making it sound like (not that I would mind that in the least, you understand)...

I'm sure there are people involved who know exactly what the truth is. Could you explain why they haven't also come out with what they know? Do they fondly imagine they'll get a slice of the pie commsurate with their involvement or something like that?

How did they pull it all off, anyway? Was it the right combination of money, power, and influence, or was it something more sinister than that?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Thanks, Karl. Excellent questions, and...

...the part about Bush committing treasonous acts is dead on.

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Thanks for posting this

and putting all this together.

Yes, this cabal is a bunch of traitors. I can't wait until we can remove this cancer for our country and the world.

BTW: Welcome to DU and I hope your information gets the attention it deserves. People need to know what Bush & Co are really all about.

:hi:

[RainDog]

34. Have you read Forbidden Truth?

...but let me also say Welcome to you, and I wish you much success in exposing the truth about Bush and his cronies, so many of them Poppies operatives, to be sure, to the many Americans who want to believe they have a govt worth their vote...

I wonder if you've read Forbidden Truth because the authors also talk about the pipeline from Afghanistan, and although they don't mention the firms that you do, they do mention issues which would seem to pertain to your information.

If our govt had pursued truth and justice during the Iran/Contra mess, I don't think we'd be in this hellish situation today with a govt which threatens our basic reason for being more than a foreign enemy, it would seem.

You are not the only Republican that I've heard who is now independent, or who rightly calls the current situation what it is: fascism.

I hope those of you with information that can stop this slide into totalitarianism will overcome them.

I try to do my part by learning as much as I can and passing information along to others.

The truth can set you free.

[Karenina]

37. KWBS, You just made my week!

and it's only Monday! THANK YOU!!!!

WELCOME TO DU!!! :toast: :party: :toast:

[tinanator]

39. Fantastic job Karl!

God bless you and yours!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. what the hell is Patmos Nanotechnologies and

why can I not find anything on it? You claim to be the president (I recall that being in the title of your letter) and CEO and yet I can find nothing about it. A web link to info on your company might give you a little more credibility...

theProdigal

[KWBS]

44. PATMOS

is a privately held LLC, has no need for a website. We control some key Carbon Nanotube technologies that are at this time deemed the gold standard - highest volume (industry, not lab), highest purity first run (>80-85%, higher than CNI or HipCo after clean up), and highest morphology.

We have had over a year to R&D in the lab for Hydrogen Fuel Cells, cancer, HHV-6, HIV treatments, anti-anthrax virus treatments, composites, metal composites, nanosensors for explosives, CBW, nuclear, computer components, environmental, filters, electronic enhancements, neural applications, and much more. We are affiliated with 2 governmetn labs and over a dozen major institutions.

CNI is affiliated with Rice and Kellogg Brown & Root. I have no desire to be insular with a small team of scientist, for when they run out of ideas so does our company run out of new IP.

HipCo is affiliated with Penn State.

Again, too insular, too PENN STATE on the bottom line.

We are putting in a $4 billion a year production facility. Not announcing yet where or affiliated with whom.

Karl

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. was looking for articles or anything

thanks for the answer...this is something that might have been included with the letter (or at least its web-version) to alleviate the people like me who are tired of seeing these sorts of things show up and then be totally debunked...it has turned many of us jaded against just about anything that shows up on the net. PATMOS being an acronym that frequently shows up...it is easy to see where this would be doubted. Who are some of the companies held under PATMOS? Are any of them something that we could read about? I heard (after further research) that there were about 30 such companies.

THANKS!
theProdigal

[juajen]

178. Welcome to DU, Karl

I read posts about you and from you on a couple of other forums, and am glad you have joined us here. FWIW, folks, I believe every word that I have read, as it just reinforces what I've been reading about for two or three years.

I wish you success, Karl, and thank you for being a patriot. I am sharing these posts and information with others, as we all should do. I truly am prepared to hear what you hint is coming, as a lot of us have reached similar conclusions. My personal family is a family of historians, and the DU family is a wealth of information and intelligence, with some scattered nuts, trolls, etc. thrown in for good measure. After all, that's just plain American, isn't it?

I am a descendant of a Frenchman who fought with Washinton and Lafayette in the Revolutionary War, was given a land grant by Washington for his service, and became a French-American who embraced his new homeland. This country is precious to so many of us and the ideals we believe in cannot be destroyed forever. We stand ready to help as best we can, and, again, I say WELCOME.

[Trajan]

46. Hot damn ...

Good to have you here Karl ...

Ever heard of Smedley Butler ? ...

I knew you did ....

Welcome to DU ...

GREAT statement Karl ....

[Jose Diablo]

52. Welcome, Mr. Schwartz

What Bush and his thugs have done is nothing less than treason against the American people.

I am encouraged that the other side of the aisle is recognizing the issues of this government by the corporations go far beyond partisan politics.

Wash DC needs a flush, both sides are guilty of placing personal wealth and power above the needs of the constitutional mandates of "we the people".

I am sure many many on this board welcome your efforts to 'do the right thing' in so far as the needs of our country. We will help you in these efforts.

Thank you and welcome.

[ewagner]

53. Welcome Karl

I hope your presence here stirs thoughtful discussion.

I have been long convinced that both parties have ties to corporatist interests and, therefore, unwilling to confront the truth.

but first things first.......Bush is the most immediate threat to us and has to be defeated. Then we can get to work cleaning out the rat's nest.

Again, welcome.

[Bandit]

61. Welcome to DU and thanks for being a good patriot

Have you received any replies from this Administration to your open letter? I would not expect so but then again..:shrug: Also as CEO of an intelligence company have you noticed any others with your leanings? I mean those in a position of power such as yourself not us common folk.

[Lerkfish]

73. a big shout out welcome to DU!

great letter.

[TexasBushwhacker]

223. Thank God for you Karl

A Conservative Christian Republican who still THINKS!

[Lostnote03]

27. Nice to meet a Republican finally......

.....Please be very careful Karl...Best Wishes

[KTM]

32. Hey Karl, add one for me:

"I demand to know how many memebers of the Energy Task Force are now or were at any point members of the Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce."

[JohnyCanuck]

36. I suggest we email Mr. Schwarz's letter to the Media Presstitutes

Not that I expect they will do anything with it, but at least they'll know that we know that they know and perhaps, if nothing else, it will at least help edge us a few more millimeters closer to the tipping point when the empty edifice of lies, thievery and assorted skulduggery finally keels over and is shattered into pieces.

I've already started emailing it out using this extensive and very handy media email contact list courtesy of nostamj.

Media Contacts

[KayLaw]

40. Point 28 is interesting

I'd like to hear more about that!

[KWBS]

43. POINT 28 reply

Chatper 5 of the book discloses much about the anthrax attacks, the anthrax vaccine. CIDRAP came out with a blistering report on how deadly and harmful the vaccine is, they just kept slamming it to our troops.

I will send chapter 5 if you want to read it.

email me at [e-mail] and make sure you flag and title as QUESTION 28.

I am getting hundreds of emails a day, some times hundreds an hour.

Karl

[KWBS]

42. addressing the questions

no, not afraid. They want hard ball, my people are meaner than theirs by a long shot. My team believes in AMERICA, not FASCISM.

There are two movements I am involved in - first, the 9-11Truth movement.

Second, THE MOVEMENT, that Silent Majority remnant, spin off from the Libertarians that is quite active and very powerful. Growing by teh day once many of them saw Bush CHeney as the fascist that they are, and the DNC is so "insular" to the far left, many Dems no longer feel represented by the DNC ideology. IMAGINE what would happen is a CONSERVATIVE DEM stood up and ran? That would freak them off the scale.

I started to add the Azerbaijan COC, and Halliburton, DynCorp and CIA working through there to upend the Caspian.

What we are all witnessing (in addition to unmitigated GREED) is a really crappy remake / bastardized hybridization of "THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR / PELICAN BRIEF".

I can disclose that as a matter of RNC POLICY, the DNC and Dems are in large part to blame. One cannot have their cake and eat it too. One cannot have plentiful oil, low prices, and NOT develop US oil reserves, relying more on foreign sources than HOME SOURCES.

Make sure everyone you know has this link / thread and the same thread at Kerry Forums. Also, keep watching OnlineJournal.com. Much is about to break. Bush is going to have to face the music whether he likes that or not. TRUTH MATTERS.

Also, put your friends on to www.summeroftruth.org and let them see the PPT I presented in NYC. Most "get it" when they "see it".

If some of you wish, go to http://www.hillsenatenow.org. That is the best tape of 9-11 that I have seen. Far better than 9-11, In Plane Site.

Has footage that is a MUST SEE and is not hard to figure it out.

WE did 9-11.

back to the front lines, have a good day

Karl

[JohnyCanuck]

48. kick n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. would still like to know more about PATMOS

as a holding company, what patents are held? What companies comprise the PATMOS world? Are there some news articles on any of the companies that fly their banner beneath that of PATMOS?

tP

[KWBS]

54. NOT YET

We are focused now on production and volume. Have a new facility coming online soon, but not in Arkansas. I am moving from here very soon for personal and business reasons.

There will be much news very soon but right now is premature.

Suffice to say that we will be putting out $4 billion a year during Phase I and we do not primarily produce CNTs for general sale to customers, we produce them for secondary, extremely high value products. People would be amazed at what is possible with CNTs >95% to >99.5% pure. CNI and HipCO only reach about 75% after acid rinse, destroys integrity, our process is way ahead of them. CNI is Rice Univ and Kellogg Brown & Root affiliate.

Karl

[seemslikeadream]

50. KWBS, WHO SHOULD CONTROL THE US NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM?

I'm very concerned can you comment?

...

A look at Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) reveals just exactly what kind of activities are undertaken in a spook shop where there is no accountability, and what business Inman was conducting at SAIC

under his leadership. SAIC is one of the largest private employee-owned corporations, and like the Carlyle Group, escapes scrutiny (because it is privately owned) despite annual revenues of more than $5.9 billion. In 1990 it was indicted and pled guilty to ten felony counts of fraud on a Superfund site, called "one of the largest of environmental fraud…" in Los Angeles history. DOE contracted SAIC to manage and operate the Yucca Mountain Program, which I worked on as a scientist at the Livermore Lab. I became a whistleblower at Livermore in 1991 because of my knowledge of the extent of science fraud on the most important public works project in US history. SAIC’s control over internet domain names, gained when they purchased Network Solutions Inc., caused a furor and identified the ties in SAIC to "the shadow ruling-class within the Pentagon". Basically SAIC is a private spook corporation, involved in voting machines (SEQUOIA etc.), controlling the internet (Network Solutions), training foreign militaries, and the contractor that set up global communications for the US military. The internet is being changed from a public resource to a lucrative operation influenced by spooks and former Pentagon officials. The internet was a Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) project to begin with.

One of SAIC’s prime clients is DARPA (DOD), which recently employed 5-time convicted felon Admiral Poindexter, an associate of Inman’s going back to Iran-Contra. Poindexter was forced to resign over his involvement with PAM, a "terrorism futures market" DARPA project which predicted assassinations, terrorism and other events in the Middle East. His earlier controversial program TIPS – the Total Information Awareness Program – was set up to spy on Americans. He was also involved in creating large information databases on Americans which are now being used to track citizens. SAIC also had contracts to develop information systems for the Pentagon, FBI and IRS. Police can now legally stop a person on the street, ask their name, type it into a palm pilot and come up with detailed personal information in a few seconds. An Associated Press story on Sept. 9, 2004, "Conn. City Uses Scanners to Nab Criminals" revealed that police in New Haven, Connecticut, are now driving around in police cars with infrared scanners connected to databases which they are using on license plates to hunt for "criminals", tax delinquents, and parking ticket violators. Some of the $25,000 scanners were paid for in one month from collected revenues. A military project, the real purpose of the internet is revealing itself:


In two years Admiral Bobby Ray Inman took over the space program, and in another year from now he will have succeeded in taking over the nuclear weapons program. When Newsweek called him "a superstar in the intelligence community", it was for good reason.

A Naval officer I interviewed later replied when I asked him if he knew Inman "…oh yeah… he’s one of the players…".



WHO SHOULD CONTROL THE US NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM?

.....

In 1991, Richard Berta, the Western Regional Inspector for the Department of Energy at the nuclear weapons labs and the Nevada Test Site, told me:

"The nuclear weapons labs exist for the Pentagon… and the Pentagon exists for the oil companies…"

It is inappropriate for a university to be in control of nuclear weapons research and management. University of California faculty have long opposed UC management of the labs, supported by a majority of the students. UC is now in the position of managing, developing, proliferating, investing in, and profiting from Weapons of Mass Destruction. The fact that UC investments of $33,046,370 in Lockheed Martin Marietta (70% owned by Carlyle), and $21,471,120 in General Dynamics – one of the two biggest US manufacturers of DU weaponry which has been sold to 29 countries, make UC complicit in war crimes. Students and faculty should be informed of this. The State of California employee pension fund owns 5.2% of the Carlyle Group.

The military, should NEVER be in control of ANY nuclear weapons program, it should ALWAYS be in civilian hands. And the Carlyle Group, a private corporation with vested interests and ties to oil companies, has NEVER been investigated or subjected to ANY oversight whatsoever, and for that reason should not have any control or influence over US nuclear weapons policy and development. Admiral Bobby Ray Inman and his associates in the intelligence business have demonstrated their systematic abuse of the internet, voting machines, and American civil liberties. Should we give them the trigger, the nukes, the budget they want, and the cover of secrecy? I don’t think so.

Management and oversight of the nuclear weapons labs belongs at the National Science Foundation, a US government agency, with the resources to make rational decisions and reign in the planned unlimited proliferation of nuclear weapons on earth and in space.

more
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=3323

[KWBS]

55. Definitely NOT Bush Pioneers

Chapter 8 of my book is titled "Planting Weeds in America's Rose Garden" and exposes Israel, PRC and US WMD and arm proliferation programs.

That needs to stop.

Karl

[merh]

233. I have a problem with anyone that insists that they want the

public to know the truth, yet I have to buy their evidence!

If he were so concerned about this evidence being made public, you think he would not charge for it and just make it accessible on the internet!

:shrug:

[wishlist]

51. Here is link again to website addressing concerns about Mr Schwarz

For those here who have not read about Mr Schwarz previously, this website (last updated Oct 16 2004 by blogger who checked out Mr Schwarz and) may shed light:

http://karmakat.typepad.com/picasso_dreams/2004/10/teh_real_karl_s.html.

Thanks Karl, for your attempts to bring these vital issues to the forefront and seek answers. The concerns you raise about the motives and actions of the Bush Administration and complicit Dems need to be the focus. Unfortunately though in our current bitter environment with powerful individuals trying to maintain and solidify their power, there is more focus aimed at discrediting the messengers rather than addressing the message.

[KWBS]

56. that is by Kelly Ann

she communicated with me and also with John Stadtmiller of National Intel Report, www.rbnlive.com out of Austin TX.

RBNlive is posting a link today to order One-Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas, a Conservative Republican Speaks Out.

It is 810 pages, 10 page index, 883 footnotes.

Is very detailed about WHO we all need to point the fingers at for treason and more.

Karl

[KWBS]

57. SEE THE POWERPOINT

http://www.summeroftruth.org/images/karl_schwarz.ppt

This was presented by me in NYC. Literally millios have seen it now and "they get it".

I met Bridas in 1999. Saw an older version of that map.

We attacked to take out Taliban and Bridas Corporaiton and then Bush wanted a new CIA division just for Argentina, and Bridas is from Argentina.

After my panel in NYC concluded a woman got past security and came running up on stage. She had been fired earlier this year in Buenos Aires for refusing to launder US DRUG MONEY. She informed that all of Argentina is hoping an American figured out what Bush did to Bridas and tells the world.

I did, I have.

I met Bridas becasue I used to be the only GLOBAL VAR of UUNet. We had plans for South America and needed ROW, Bridas has Oil and Gas ROW.

have a good one

Karl

[KWBS]

58. Neocons

Mr. Fund's deposition is tomorrow in the NYC area.

I spent this weekend preparing some deposition questions for this NEOCON.

You can read what he did here.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/101404Schwarz/101404schwarz.html

[seemslikeadream]

59. Karl thanks for the reply above, anything on Dov Zakheim?

or Jack Shaw's investigation?

DoD Statement on Jack Shaw and the Iraq Telecommunications Contract
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=743997

[TrustingDog]

62. kick

[KWBS]

131. they keep him deep

very hard to get at people who know anything. He has lots of buffers around him.

[TrustingDog]

64. #22 - the foundation to all the neocon's filthy works. n/t

[Zhade]

106. Wow. That should help those who wrongly think there was no pipeline deal.

NT!

[RainDog]

60. What do you know about David Addington?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22665-2004Oct10.html

He seems to be a key player in both Iran/Contra and heavily connected to the CIA, since he served as counsel there.

(which you mention in relation to Sibel Edmonds' allegations of drug money laundering and a conspiracy, as in criminal conspiracy, before the fact of 9-11.)

He also, apparently, wrote the torture justifications, and works with Cheney to attempt to accrue unconstitutional power to the executive branch, at the expense of the legislative and judicial.

In addition, when will your article be posted at online journal?

Do you know when or if Sibel Edmonds will be able to share more information on the translations she discovered?

[KWBS]

69. SIBEL

what she knows and what I know is coming out.

Cannot speak for OnlineJournal.com. Two articles were requested and sent yesterday (Sunday) to the editor. Figure she will update tomorrow morning.

much more than Sibel is coming.

Karl

[never cry wolf]

78. I hope it comes out before Nov. 2!

Not much time left. Welcome to DU Karl, awesome work!

Our Valerie Plame research threads contained well over 4000 posts, I believe and touched on many of the same issues, I hope you or one of your staff take the time to peruse them.

We're all behind you here, I don't mind a fair fight with Republicans with integrity, we all can work together, it's these neo-con PNAC fascists who are lying, cheating and doing great damage to the country we both love.

Please be careful and stay out of small aircraft!

[KayLaw]

63. Good article about Mr. Schwarz

Thank you, Karl, for responding to my comment regarding Point 28, the vaccine. You may already know this, but there is an excellent article about you and your book , written by Richard W. Mehan, posted on www.smirkingchimp.com

It discusses the vaccine, PNAC, and other issues and is a good read for anyone.

[BeHereNow]

66. Oh My God.

Keep this thread at the top.

BHN

[BeHereNow]

67. Oh My God.

Keep this thread at the top.

BHN

[emad]

65. One hell of an awesome post. Getting to the root of this you need to

treat it like a festering abcess, a purtid boil that needs to be lanced to see who masks his identity with the laughable name of "President George Herbert Bush" aka Poppy. That way you can unmask the Mafia Don who masquerades as "President George W Bush".

To do that, a little cold war history in synopsis:

By far the worst, as yet largely unprosecuted career villan in Europe is Licio Gelli, financial head of the pedophile masonic millenial cult the P2 Lodge, currently up before the jury in the adjourned murder trial of Roberto Calvi.

It took 22 years to break the CIA/MI6 generated whitewash and coverup that resulted in Calvi's July 1982 City of London death being treated as suicide.

Early this year Gelli and other members of the P2 Lodge were arrested and charged with murdering the financial boss of the failed Banco Ambrosiano which robbed the Vatican coffers of approximately $400 million.

Then a dramatic twist in the tale took place as City of London detectives unexpectedly found "over 70 large boxes" of previously unseen evidence.

This has been reported as consisting of documents detailing the 900+ strong international membership of the P2 Lodge, the sex crimes they were PERSONALLY charged with up to 1982 but which were filed away after political duress from CIA/MI6, KGB and Mossad, their bank accounts, money movements and police reports on their terrorist activities, blood ties, DNA links etc.

Also reported in this new evidence are the names of all the aspiring politicians, holders of public office, bankers, financiers and household names of the 1980s who have risen to prominence after 22 years of believing the Calvi case would be forever closed as a suicide and all the mercenary payments they took from the P2 Lodge to advance their careers would be a largely forgotten matter, thanks to Margaret Thatcher and Vice President George H Bush 1980-88.

Those UK-sourced documents have all the information necessary to nail Bush2.

Behind the spectacular, almost meteoric rise of this evil toerag is a massive deception by a cabal of politicians who needed to seal their own criminal pasts and pave the way for a future generation of heads of government that would continue to tell the lie like it was during the cold war.

From my sources in London today I understand that George Herbert Bush was executed in the US in a Mafia turf war prior to the Calvi killing and was replaced by a lookalike, Frank Gelli, who had been groomed by the CIA and Defense Department, protected by both UK Toies and Labour party members and given the brief of perpetrating a massive deception on the world by taking on this ID.

Frank Gelli is, I understand, a half brother to Licio, who he protected when he gave Cardinal Marcinkus - head of the Vatican Bank -immunity from prosecution. At the same time he ensured that in the UK the pedophile career of the man who claims to be Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz would be covered up by both the Metropolitan Police, MI5 and MI6. Dziwisz was raised to the archbisopric last year by JP2 and remains his trusted personal secretary, despite many protests from the families of his victims who live mainly in the UK.

Highly detailed information on "Bush1" and "Bush2" is believed to be held in City of London police archives, including the assertion that "Bush2" is one John Lowy, and that the real asshole George Walker Bush was also killed in a turf war shoot out after Calvi's death and Ambrosiano's collapse.

In addition, I understand that more information about these two rogues has come to light in previously unpublished evidence regarding the disappearance of UK estate agent Suzy Lamplugh in July 1986.

From my contacts I am told that her real name was MARIA GELLI, that she was the daughter of Licio Gelli's son Henri, who has lived in the UK for over 40 years undercover and has posed most of his life as an Arab economics expert and Midle East journalist, and that she had been sponsored by various senior Tory Party members into acquiring a job as a field officer with MI5 from 1984 onwards.

Officially she disappeared. In actual life her murder in Fulham in July 1986 was ordered by opponents of Licio Gelli who were outraged at their financial losses ater Ambrosiano and the insertion of the Gelli implant, Frank Gelli, into mainstream US politics.

Maria Gelli's case was reopened last year in the UK after a spectacular 1980s property fraud was uncovered relating to the laundering of over £500 million of property assets by IRA/Provisional IRA/Continuity IRA and Real IRA members, up to 60 of whom were given immunity from prosecution by Peter Mandelson's Good Friday Agreement brokered by Blair.

Maria Gelli has emerged as having two roles in MI5: to infiltrate it and discover what incriminating evidence the Brits held on Bush1 lookalike Frank Gelli as well as Bush 2 lookalike John Lowy. Secondly to recruit mercenaries into quasi-IRA units to ensure that anyone with access to those MI5 files would be assasinated.

The finger points to Margaret Thatcher and her attempted coup plot when she tried to overthrow the UK monarchy using funds laundered via the BCCI network (BCCI secrets now coming into open in the London class action). The key evidence as I undertstand it focuses on business relationships between Frank Gelli, John Lowy and Abbas Gokal, currently serving 7 years for a BCCI-related fraud.

Maria Gelli was executed by a contract killer who has been protected by Thatcher, her sucessor John Major and since 1997 Blair.

Those UK police officers who were/are intimately connected with the investigation of the Gelli family whom I have known for the duration of most of my professional life must be rubbing their hands with glee right now.

Seem to remember that the cops in NYC were also reported recently to be pretty happy at the unearthing of the physical remains of two Mafia dons the other week.....

And only 2 weeks to go before another attempt by the Cosa Nostra to get their man in to the White House again!

[realFedUp]

68. this is something

I always kick for something.

[KWBS]

70. See Richard Behan article on Schwarz

http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=18312

[RedEagle]

75. Regionalism- KWBS, do you know about this concept?

Mr. Schwarz,

The Council of State Governments, (CSG) connected to "1313" Public Administration Clearing House, and all the organizations derived or affiliated, seem to be concerned with "regionalism."

All of those entities receive funding from grants and foundations that seem to trace to or through the Rockefeller Foundation.

Some see regionalism as one form of wresting power away from the people, by employing appointees instead of elected officials.

The CSG seems to believe that business has a prominent place in government.

Do you have any insights on this and does it pertain to our current struggle to maintain a representative form of government?

Do entities like CSG serve to keep Bush and company in power?

Thanks.

[KWBS]

80. Yes, they do

and it is also designed to keep the states from rising up under states rights and putting the "federal republic" back into it lesser power role.

The corporations found that controlling DC was easier than controlling 50 states, hence, Corporatization of the US government.

Anything they can do to keep the people and the states down, they do.

Since David Rockefeller is one of the architects of globalization and New World Order, go figure.

See these quotes and pay very close attention - they are indeed close to total takeover.


“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there's an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a ~one-world government combining Supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976,
killed 1983 in the Korean Airlines 747 by the Soviet Union.


those are actual quotes, not made up


Karl

[Hutzpa]

176. Karl you are the man!!

Welcome to DU officially.



:yourock: :headbang:

[BeHereNow]

71. KICK n/t

BHN

[EstimatedProphet]

72. Kick

[Oilwellian]

76. Welcome aboard Mr. Schwarz

You've given me some much needed hope.

:kick:

[Ima]

77. Thank You and stay safe

:kick:

[KWBS]

79. The Letter to Bush

is actually DATED September 30, 2004. Somebody changed it along the way and here is the exact header off the email that followed by less than one minute the fax from Ground Zero

-----Original Message-----
From: Karl W. B. Schwarz
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:13 PM
To: President@Whitehouse. Gov
Cc: Natalie Jones; [e-mail]
Subject: An American demands the truth from you

September 30, 2004 By Email, By Facsimile to White House
Mr. President,


I am a Conservative Christian Republican that has no intentions of voting for you in this year's election and many other Conservative Republicans are following me.


DNC

NOTE - 4 debates and not one swing for the jugular.

Yeah, it is legit so keep your day job.

I was invited by the Kerry board - via this email:


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Maugeri
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 7:22 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Please attend this discussion about Bushe Mr. Schwartz


Maybe we can helpyou we are 40,000 strong! People want to know who you are and how to help!

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=95271&st=30


Rob is on that board, ASK HIM AND THEN FOCUS ON THE BALL.

November 2 is not that far away and your idle speculation is wasting time.

Karl

[BeHereNow]

84. Karl, I just finished reading there-

I would like your theory on what I call the collective
narcissistic neurosis syndrome that grips both the so called
"left" and "right" citizenry of this country.
What I read there reminded me of what I have seen
here at DU for the last two years.
Why do people insist on self-righteously defending nit-picking points
about details that DO NOT MATTER while completely dismissing
the fact that the fucking house IS ON FIRE around US,
all of us, Dem and Repub, Gay, Straight, Black, White
and the doors are LOCKING at this very minute?
Your research and presentation is horrifying in its implications
for the very near future.
WE do not have time to squabble among ourselves
about things that don't matter to the Empire.
It is now about SURVIVAL. Not being right or wrong-
Our lives and the future of the world are at stake.
Karl, I GET IT. Trust me, I DO.
Welcome to DU-
BHN

[KWBS]

89. Interesting question you pose

In the book I call it the "ists and isms syndrome".

Take an environmentalist that only wants to see SUVs as the problem, not the energy policies due to environmentalism. Or the ELF and ALF people who have apparently turned into domestic terrorists because they cannot get their way. No sense in that, and destined to fail over time.

What is clear to me is that both parties have sold all of us out. That is a given.

Second, the Silent Majority can stop this insanity very fast, in several (2 or 3) election cycles.

We need leaders who represent all of us, not just the Elite Few of us.

When we vote "predictably" we deserve exactly what we are getting.

Of course, the Elite Few disagree, but they are in the vast MINORITY.

I hate to say it this way, but only way to say it - TIME FOR MAJORITY RULE and tell certain people sit down and shut up before they sink the USS AMERICA.

Not everything is an entitlement, not everything is a priority, not everything is entitled to millions or billions from the public treasury. And corporations have no special rights.

Karl

[BeHereNow]

92. I agree and add

Time to focus on what MATTERS.
The majority is kept running in circles like hamsters
on those little wheels on issues that the FEW could care
a less about. They have much bigger fish to fry and it
is to their convenience that the majority stay fractured
arguing among themselves about abortions and gay marriages
and other issues they could give a rats ass about, while
they rape and pillage the future.
what boggles my mind is the fact that neither the
so called "left" or "right" seems tro comprehend that the
issues that MATTER are going to screw them equally in the end.
The points in your letter MATTER.
If we do not work together, all of us, to "clean the house"
as you say, the so called "left" and "right" will soon
learn that their smug self righteousness will do them no
good in what is coming as they will both be in the same
river drowning, side by side, with nary a a life rope to save them.
The elite don't care a damn if you are a repub or a dem,
or if you have an abortion or not.
They look upon all of us as they do the rest of the world.
Wake up America; or learn very soon just how the elite
does see the rest of the world.
We are NOTHING to them.
BHN

[TrustingDog]

98. we are but 'useless eaters' - dogpile (google) that and shudder. n/t

[BeHereNow]

100. Now You're Catching On...

Less of us means more for them.
I honestly believe that is what the mandatory
mental health screening is about- The Pharma Cartel
has probably perfected some new improved anti-depressant
for us to all take, perfectly safe, of course.
They get a ton of money for all the newly diagnosed
'murikkkans, and then a whole bunch of us die in
ten years from some unforseen side effect.
Voila! Less useless eaters.
They get rich and we are eliminated.
Genocide, neat and efficient.
Perhaps Wolfowitz has even got his wish-
MAYBE the new and improved prozac has
"genetically specific" side effects to target
certain races!

BHN

[Beam Me Up]

102. "American Revolutionary Party"

We'll use votes as bullets

Thse are quotes from the radio interview with you linked above.

Little did I know when I made my somewhat whimsical post above, 'Why aren't YOU running for pres,' that you have actually considered launching a third party.

Karl, as a gay man who does not call himself a Christian (but has respect for Truth and for the Sacred impulse) and who is so far 'left' of center he has to hold his nose to vote for most Democrats, I want you to know that I WOULD SUPPORT YOUR PARTY. I welcome and admire your allegiance to something greater than the DOLLAR. I agree completely that it is time to clean house -- deeply -- on both sides of the isles. What festers in the heart of America has festered there ever since the end of the first world war. It WILL take a REVOLUTION of mind, heart and soul to turn this situation around and allow America to be what it has only pretended to be in the past: A shining example of Truth, Dignity, Integrity, Honesty, Justice and Democracy in the world.

Is this possible? Back in the 60s we wanted a revolution but it was not a "revolutionary" situation. And back in those days many of us on the left were very confused about what that really meant. But one thing was clear to us even then, we were being LIED to. Moreover, those of us who wanted to know the truth and wanted the truth to be known, were being belittled, bewildered and marginalized, rendering us impotent to change the SYSTEM in anything but incremental and relative ways. In those days we believed Democracy COULD WORK.

Can it? Can the People go up against the systemic fascism of the National Security State apparatus and bring about what would amount to real, revolutionary change? By that I mean the ENFORCEMENT OF LAW at the highest levels of society and government. No one above the law.

We want this. We know that most wars are not caused by ordinary people but by those who PROFIT from war--who have vested interests in sustaining us/them dialectics.

Can we really change this?

Thank you for taking the time to speak with us.

[TrogL]

82. Some of this is covered in my "oil wars" link

I"ll bookmark this and look at it later.

[sangh0]

235. I think all of this has been covered before

I don't see what the big deal here is. I don't see this person revealing any new info.

[KWBS]

83. PUSH TO YOUR CONTACTS AND ASK

is this the America you want to live in, your children, your grandchildren?

“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there's an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a ~one-world government combining Supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976,
killed 1983 in the Korean Airlines 747 by the Soviet Union.


Not me and I for one could not care less what David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger think or have to say.

What you are seeing in GHWB, Clinton and now GWB has been in the planning for a very long time folks.

STILL IS.

Karl

[starroute]

95. I don't see Larry MacDonald as reliable either

Chairman of the John Birch Society at the time of his death in 1983. Founder in 1979 of Western Goals, an intelligence-gathering front for the John Birch Society which is said to have worked with former Nazi intelligence chief Reinhard Gehlen. On the board of Christian Voice, a front organization for Reverend Moon. On the board of the Council for National Policy.

Frankly, I don't trust anyone of that stripe. There may be factional divisions among the power-mongers, and certain factions may find it useful at times to warn us against certain other factions, but I don't believe any of them are really on our side.

In the end, all we can trust is ourselves.

[robertpaulsen]

99. KWBS - I hope you don't find my questions irrelevant.

It sounds like you have access to information concerning the 9/11 conspiracy that might lead to the truth coming out and bringing these treasonous criminals to justice. So I wanted to know:

Does Peak Oil play any role in this conspiracy? Do you believe Peak Oil will occur soon? Do key PNAC players like Cheney and Rumsfeld believe it will happen soon and does this serve as motivation for them?

You spoke earlier about writing an article that would cause many in DC and corporate America to commit suicide. Will this article come out before the election?

Are you aware of the lawsuit filed on behalf of several 9/11 families by Stanley Hilton, who claims he has documents that Bush ordered the 9/11 attacks? Do you believe his claims are valid?

In light of the fact FEMA has "training programs" scheduled for November 2, much like they and NORAD had terrorist "drills" on September 11, do you believe there will be an election on November 2?


Thank you so much for your time and effort. It's good to be in touch with someone dedicated to exposing the truth!

[KWBS]

116. yes and no

The Caspian Basin is a 30 year supply of oil for the U.S. so not soon.

There are huge reserves of oil deep, like under the Ouachita Mountains in Western Arkansas and into Oklahoma.

They are going for the "low hanging fruit".

Peak oil is a ways off. More about greed and over $10 trillion in oil and gas in the Caspian Basin and it was landlocked until we took over Afghanistan. That simple.

Our oil companies had invested billions into a landlocked deal, will not be landlocked much longer. The pipeline is under contruction now.

Stanley has a solid case, and the courts are balking. THey work for the DEFENDANT, remember.

YES, the article will come out before the elections.

Cannot say, Bush and Rove are desperate. I get that from inside and outside.

Karl

[BeHereNow]

120. Cornered Rabid Rats

That's what scares me about them.
And yes, I agree about the set-up for the
dirty-bomb.
The fact that SO many of the DC players are
going to fall with them, dems and repubs alike,
truly scares me- I put nothing past them and I believe
that their minions will cover anything they want to do
to save themselves.
They need a really big distraction right about now.
BHN

[TexasChick]

122. Stanley Hilton/Ellen Mariani & Phillip Berg

Karl,

I have read Stanley Hilton's case and Ellen Mariani's/Phillip Berg's case, even signed Ellen's petition on her website. What is going on in Stanley's case? Seems like the courts are stalling on this! Why is he having a hard time getting this rolling? It does seem like he has very credible evidence. He has done some publicity for it, but I don't think near enough. Could it be our media wh*res trying to bury it?

Do you know how Ellen's case is going?

I hope your own information will be the one to put these fascists pigs out of our government for a long time! These people are dangerous and scary!!! But then again, chimp supporters are very lacking in intelligence, so they may not understand all of this! :(


Jennifer

[KWBS]

154. Hi Jennifer

I have read Stanley's case and talked with him, shared info with him. He must have a case, because his office has been broken into at least twice and found out today maybe a third time. He is being very careful to keep triplicate of all evidence and two in safe places.

Someone is very nervous about what he has.

He was on www.meria.net late Sept. Cannot remember the exact date but is available in her archives.

I am too, Sept 9 and Oct 6. And will be on Wed, Oct 20, 10-11 PDT.

The Mariani case I keep hearing strange things about. It was dismissed, refiled, withdrawn, etc. No straight answers and her attorney never returned my call.

I want to see justice for those families, to heck with the money aspects that the attorneys seem to be after.

Judicial Watch has a lawsuit filed, has not pushed it hard

I am aware of another lawsuit coming out of NYC that might be the kille lawsuit. Is based on evidence provided to the 9-11 Truth movement, some of which came from me.



KWBS

[TexasChick]

161. Karl...Thanks. I feel Stanley has the best chance to get justice and the

truth rolling on these imperialists and their evil deeds. I try to tell my sister that this administration was involved in this!!! Why else did they want to steal the 2000 election and chimp just sitting their in that classroom after hearing about the second plane!!! She just thought he looked clueless (inept -- don't worry she voted Kerry), but I said "No, look at smirk's face, it looks like he 'got a confirmation that the plans have taken place'"!!!

(Sigh) The other half of America needs to wake up!!! We need some hard evidence of this administration's involvement!! Something and I feel Stanley has the goods to deliver, but it won't matter if he can't get it out in the main public!! This is what's frustrating!

My God, folks, if this administration steals this election, probably all of us DU'ers will be sent to those FEMA camps and probably be put to death! I wouldn't put it past that scary Ashcroft fellow!


Jennifer

[Pallas180]

171. The pipeline is pretty much completed through Turkey & then

I guess they go north through Azberjain - their problem is Putin can't
get control of the Chechneyens - apparently Chechnya is on the far right side of Georgia - all of Georgia is cooperating, except Chechnya - and they need Chechnya to bring the pipeline through to the
rest of Georgia and Russia and to ports.

Have you read our thread on "Sibel speaks" about Azberjain and Cheney,
Kissinger, Scowcroft, Armitage and others well known in government and connected to dimwit and pappy being on the Azberjain Chamber of Commerce (haw haw) since 1996?

The map we include shows the whole story of why we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq...in relation to the Caspian AND the outlets to the Gulf.

Did you know that the Saudis, bin Ladens, the Chinese and Japanese, and Russians are part of the Caspian oil deal?

Everybody's taken care of so that they'll co-operate. Everyone but the
Chechneyans who not only want their cut of the pie, but independence too.

Same thing that the Afghanis and Saddam tried. Arab bargaining...but they didn't know when to stop. So dimson used the US Army to obtain the oil by attacking, removing the current governments of the countries in his way, and replacing them with his puppeets who would clear the way for the pipelines and oil company contracts. Such as Karzai, the former oil company exec.

RobertPaulsen may have the link to our "Sibel" thread.

And those have been my favorite David Rockefeller and Kissinger quotes
which I have used often online.

Here's THE question. Is Jay Rockefeller a maverick to the family? or carrying on the family tradition?

[robertpaulsen]

224. Hey Pallas, here's a link.

I actually lost it somehow, but I found it on advanced search of the archives. For those who haven't read it, it explores the link between the "arm sales" Sibel Edmonds mentions by countries connected to 9/11 and the WMD proliferators Valerie Plame was conducting a "sting operation" on.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2384220

[Tsiyu]

109. If you're our Knight in Shining Armour

we hail you. It's about time you rode up to help us defeat the Evil Ones.

If you're a KKKarl Rove plant, we will hunt you down like a dawg and feed you to the wolves.

That aside, Welcome to DU Karl!!!!:)

[KWBS]

119. ROVER?

you have my word as a Christian, an officer and a gentleman that Karl Rove and Karl Schwarz will never share the same room. I am picky.

If driving a stake in these beasts were legal, I would.

[Tsiyu]

227. Sounds like you feel the same

as most of us on DU! Thanks for all you've done here.

[AntiFascist]

147. Hi Karl, welcome to DU! Your letter is very intense, to say the least....

interesting you mention Clinton in your last post....ahem.

[The Minus World]

85. Kick.

Kick, kick, kick. Keep this at the top.

[BeHereNow]

87. Absolutely-

I never cease to be amazed by the fact that
for all bitching around here about the cabal,
when something as important as this thread finally
appears, laden with the fuel we need to start
the fire to smoke the rats out of their tax payer funded
luxury rat holes, no one grasps the concept of focusing on
what MATTERS.
This thread MATTERS.
BHN

[The Minus World]

111. I agree.

This is it, people - if we keep playing the wedge-issue game that the Bush team have successfully determined would distract us, we fail to focus on the bigger picture.

Whether Kerry or Bush won debate #3 is irrelevant. This administration is engaged in the largest, most detailed transfer-of-wealth scam in American history, and the word needs to get out NOW, while this medium is still available.

KICK.

[FOX_]

90. Kick

Ok, kick

[robertpaulsen]

88. Has anyone here read Crossing the Rubicon?

I'm just curious because I know Michael Ruppert is very aware of the 9/11-Big Oil connection that Karl Schwarz seems to be on to. I'm wondering if Ruppert has any more info on any of the people or corporations that Schwarz names, like Bridas, Dyncorp and Remington Holdings Ltd.

[Beam Me Up]

105. So much to read, so little time!!

I own the book and am reading it but not consecutively as much in it is already known to me. I find Dyncorp but not Remington Holdings or Bridas in his Index.

[robertpaulsen]

114. I remember he said something about Dyncorp at Portland State University

in November 2001. I think Dyncorp might be involved in the CIA drug trade, but I'm not sure.

Ruppert seems like he's on the money nailing Cheney for 9/11. Not sure about the Peak Oil connection, gotta read that book to find out.

[starroute]

160. Ruppert is apparently well aware of the anthrax connection

http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/terrorism/fbi_lethargy_leaves_anthrax_killer_free.htm

Investigative journalist Michael Ruppert followed his suspicions to Hadron and DynCorp through court records pertaining to a secret pirated military software program called PROMIS. He learned that Dr Alibekov's predecessor - Hadron's past director and founder, Dr Earl Brian - a business associate of former Reagan administration Attorney General Edwin Meese - was convicted of fraud during the 1980s.

"Dr Alibekov's interrogation and lie detection at Hadron's Advanced Biosystems," Ruppert advised, "may not only solve the anthrax mailings mystery, but also shed light on the recent untimely and inexplicable deaths of several biological weapons experts."


There was also a thread here a couple of years ago called "911- The final dots Pt.2 -Top 20 LIHOP- Suspects?" that mentioned Dyncorp repeatedly in the context of anthrax manufacture. I can't get back to the original thread, but the printer-friendly version can be accessed at http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=printer_format&om=4831&forum=DCForumID43

[FOX_]

91. ahuh

:beer:

[TNOE]

93. Let's get this shew on the road!

This, Sibel, Plame, - 2 weeks for a LOT of stuff to break. Let's have at it!!!

[BeHereNow]

96. On the Kerry Board Karl mentioned

that he had access to some rather LARGE email lists.
We need to pool ALL of our lists.
I have a large one from another message board I run-
so I will start there...can't wait to send it
to my false fundie x-tian inlaws...
They say I am not a Christian because I don't support Bush. BLEH!
I tell them we must not read the same Bible.
BHN:evilgrin:

[KWBS]

101. For your Bush Loving Family members

tell your family members to come to grips with this and it is about to be 10x as digusting.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/101404Schwarz/101404schwarz.html

[BeHereNow]

117. John Fund

Karl, please keep posting so you rack up enough
posts to start a your own thread on this tomorrow.
Lord knows we wont hear a peep about it from
anywhere else..."Lacy and Scott, Lacy and Scott
blah, blah, blah"
So glad to have you join us- can't wait for
the Online Journal Rat Exterminator Article!!!!
BHN
:yourock:

[Pallas180]

184. Karl, send copies to Slate & Salon & the UK Guardian -

they likely will have the guts to publish or at least interview you
and publish what you say.

[seemslikeadream]

97. Is Bridas Energy, USA - Bridas

and were they bought by BP Amoco?

[KWBS]

103. YES

Bridas closed operations in the US, IN DISGUST with RULE OF LAW in this lawless land.

[robertpaulsen]

104. Kick back to the top!

:kick:

[Tapirlover]

107. Karl Schwarz

I had the pleasure of meeting Karl in September at an event sponsored by the summer of truth org. I was in attendance along with 1200 plus others who heard Karl speak as one of the presenters. I have seen his power point presentation and have had the honour of reading his book. I can assure you that once this info reaches critical mass ( IE millions know about this and the power point,read his book) the political backlash will be that of a tsunami of TRUTH washing out the corruption in Washington and elsewhere. It was I,who also had the great pleasure and honour of faxing Karl's Demand letter to the White House on September 30,2004 from a Staples at Ground Zero

[robertpaulsen]

110. Welcome to DU, Tapirlover!

Karl wrote about you sending the fax to Bush. Congratulations! I was wondering if you might have an opinion on some questions I was asking Karl that he hasn't responded to yet:


Does Peak Oil play any role in this conspiracy? Do you believe Peak Oil will occur soon? Do key PNAC players like Cheney and Rumsfeld believe it will happen soon and does this serve as motivation for them?

You spoke earlier about writing an article that would cause many in DC and corporate America to commit suicide. Will this article come out before the election?

Are you aware of the lawsuit filed on behalf of several 9/11 families by Stanley Hilton, who claims he has documents that Bush ordered the 9/11 attacks? Do you believe his claims are valid?

In light of the fact FEMA has "training programs" scheduled for November 2, much like they and NORAD had terrorist "drills" on September 11, do you believe there will be an election on November 2?


Thanks for your input!

[BeHereNow]

112. Isn't it interesting to note

That both candidates got your historical fax
BEFORE the debate?
Welcome to DU Tapirlover-
We are honored to meet both you and Karl.

:grouphug: for the Tsunami launchers...
BHN
Looking forward to watching the rats jump off
the rotting vessel.

[Tsiyu]

113. Sure hope you are correct

in the power of the internet, the truth, and brave souls like karl and you. Kudos if this finally comes together.

[Hutzpa]

174. Good Job!!!!!! Welcome to DU..

:hi:

[Hubert Flottz]

108. I started watching this thing come together a long time ago!

The first few clues I had, were some books I read many years ago! The old books 'The Rockefeller File', 'Trading With the Enemy' and 'None Dare Call It Conspiracy' were among the first books that grabbed my attention! I didn't want to believe what I was reading, but since then I have seen everything in 'The Rockefeller File' happen right down the line like the book predicted! I knew there were Rockefeller Democrats, as well as Rockefeller Republicans, steering America toward David Rockefeller's dream of a "New World Order" and global domination,("globalization")by these super-bankers and energy barons! I have watched as both sides played along for thirty years!

I hope you build a huge fire under the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission! Before it's too late! I'm beginning to think, even fear, that it may already be too late! I knew when Junior got into the White House, that the bad guys were on the edge of a total victory, sooner, rather than later! Pandora escaped in 2000! I hope and pray there is still a chance to reverse this thing! It's turned into a rapid stampede toward the edge of the cliff, since 2000!

Good luck Karl and take care of yourself! Your story has the ring of truth to it! I got cold chills reading it and I'll be buying a copy of your book, if the bad guys don't burn them all, or jail me for buying it! Much of the world sees what is happening, far more clearly than America does!

[KWBS]

115. The Grand Chessboard

Zbegniew Brzezinski mapped it out in The Grand Chessboard and we have been watching them do it for years, covertly, surreptitiously and illegally.

Greed, power and money makes people STUPID and we got plenty in DC stuck on stupid.

JMHO.

Karl

[Tapirlover]

118. karl schwarz

I believe the Bush Junta is ALL about Peak Oil and more impotantly WHO has control of it. I,myself,am still thinking about whether Peak Oil is true or yet another scam. The point here really is that the Bush Junta is mainly made up of oil men and PNAC types who are pushing the Lukid agenda for a Greater Israel (Operation Shekinah comes to mind).In short global dominance through militarism but beneath that GREED on the backs and blood of millions

[BeHereNow]

123. And Amercians are about to find out...

that they are not immune to the
plans of the global elite.
Although the majority of them have not
really noticed yet, they have already footed
the bill for these illegal machinations by this
gang of thugs. Yet, they continue to vote for the very
people who are robbing them blind and sending
their children to die.
Astonishing isn't it?
BHN

[KWBS]

133. IT IS PAST ASTONISHING

People need to get off reality TV, mind numbing drivel, Scott & Laci Peterson and start paying attention to who is screwing them, their children and their grandchildren out of a decent future.

WAKE UP TIME AMERICA!

Karl

[KWBS]

124. RightMarch backing Bush 100%

sooooo, I could not let that stand without pointing them in the right direction.

As the Bible says, be wary of the stiff necked people.

They are blind and know not what they do.


-----Original Message-----
From: Karl W. B. Schwarz
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:48 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: see link


Pastors who blindly lead their flock into fascism need to go back and ask God what to do.

http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=18312

If you were my pastor, I would not follow you to fascism.

Think it over gentlemen, ladies.

Our government did 9-11 for over $10 trillion in oil and gas. My heart says God is not pleased with such greed and lies. James 3 says it all about lies.

regards,


This battle is on all fronts ladies & gentlemen

Karl

[RainDog]

125. Where do you think Pat Robertson, Ahmanson,

other Dominionists, Paul Weyrich, Gary North, General Boykin, Jerry Falwell, Franklin Graham, and such fit into this scheme?

[KWBS]

129. enough big ones going to fall

promised an author from Las Vegas not to steal any of her story. It is huge and we have tracked a separate group of scumbags for 3 years.

[seemslikeadream]

126. Thanks again for the answers Karl, any thoughts on Ahmanson?

Ahmanson: bagman for Christian Reconstructionist movement


http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/09/19/120.html

Vanishing Act

It's a shell game, with money, companies and corporate brands switching in a blur of buyouts and bogus fronts. It's a sinkhole, where mobbed-up operators, paid-off public servants, crazed Christian fascists, CIA shadow-jobbers, war-pimping arms dealers -- and presidential family members -- lie down together in the slime. It's a hacker's dream, with pork-funded, half-finished, secretly programmed computer systems installed without basic security standards by politically partisan private firms, and protected by law from public scrutiny. It's how the United States, the "world's greatest democracy," casts its votes. And it's why George W. Bush will almost certainly be the next president of the United States -- no matter what the people of the United States might want.

The American vote-count is controlled by three major corporate players -- Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia -- with a fourth, Science Applications International Corporation, coming on strong. These companies -- all of them hardwired into the Bushist Party power grid -- have been given billions of dollars by the Bush Regime to complete a sweeping computerization of voting machines nationwide by the 2004 election. These glitch-riddled systems -- many using "touch-screen" technology that leaves no paper trail at all -- are almost laughably open to manipulation, according to corporate whistleblowers and computer scientists at Stanford, Johns Hopkins and other universities.

-snip-

Who's behind these private companies? It's hard to tell: The corporate lines -- even the bloodlines -- of these "competitors" are so intricately mixed. For example, at Diebold -- whose corporate chief, Wally O'Dell, a top Bush fundraiser, has publicly committed himself to "delivering" his home state's votes to Bush next year -- the election division is run by Bob Urosevich. Bob's brother, Todd, is a top executive at "rival" ES&S. The brothers were originally staked in the vote-count business by Howard Ahmanson, a member of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing "steering group" stacked with Bushist faithful.

Ahmanson is also one of the bagmen behind the extremist "Christian Reconstructionist" movement, which openly advocates a theocratic takeover of American democracy, placing the entire society under the "dominion" of "Christ the King." This "dominion" includes the death penalty for homosexuals, exclusion of citizenship for non-Christians, stoning of sinners and -- we kid you not -- slavery, "one of the most beneficent of Biblical laws."

Ahmanson also has major holdings in ES&S, whose former CEO is Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. When Hagel ran for office, his own company counted the votes; needless to say, his initial victory was reported as "an amazing upset." Hagel still has a million-dollar stake in the parent company of ES&S. In Florida, Jeb Bush's first choice for a running mate in his 1998 gubernatorial race was ES&S lobbyist Sandra Mortham, who made a mint installing the machines that counted Jeb's votes.
-snip-
----------------------------

[KWBS]

132. he is not on our radars

he might be on the lady from Las Vegas

[KWBS]

127. Part of OCTOBER SURPRISE is surfacing

Three elements, 1.) inside the White House, and 2.) from Las Vegas, and 3.) from another trail we have been on for over 3 years, as to WHY these people are so "blackmail-able" in our nation's capitol.


HEADS UP,

we gave RightMarch a heads up, wake up call. (isn't it odd that it rhymes with "REICHMARCH"???????)

This is a glimpse of the October surprise.



-----Original Message-----
From: Karl W. B. Schwarz
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 12:48 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: head ups and wake up


You folks need to wake up. Fascism is not Patriotism.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...404schwarz.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...204schwarz.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...404schwarz.html


There is a lot more riding on this election than your "pet ists and isms".

I am a devout Christian, directly involved in key technologies, military, intel, nanotech, and this nation is being sold out and led down the wrong path.

Hold off on your religious zeal until you read the piece on OnlineJournal.com.

I do not think you want to be caught being 100% behind a pedophile ring in DC. By the way, Mr. Fund offered to settle the same day my piece hit Oct 14. No way, the Neocon gets exposed and to trial.

sincerely





Karl

[KWBS]

128. FROM THE WHITE HOUSE MOLE

HEADS UP




Voice of the White House

In recent past issues, we have carried comments from a reporter assigned to the White House press corps. Some of these remarks, most especially one about Bush’s physical and mental problems, drew an enormous number of viewers and hundreds of inquiries, most especially from foreign press entities. The reporter advised us by email that there was rampant fury in the White House and security was becoming very tight. As a result of this, he decided to lay low for a few weeks and see how the wind was blowing. Yesterday, he sent us the following material which we are now posting. Some of it is outrageous in the extreme but to date, no one has proven him wrong. Our source was the first to expose and we were the first to make public, the accusations that the President of the United States was a man that suffered from serious psychological problems. Since our initial publication of what we call the Madness of King George, there has been increasing interest in the subject and herewith, we present additional input from inside the White House.

October 15, 2004: “ The last material I sent you, about a pending war, is causing pandemonium inside the Monkey Palace. They have been looking for the leaks for months now and we have the Secret Service, the FBI and Homeland Security all involved at one level or another. Phones are being watched, laptops searched physically, in some cases we have seen staff taking lie detector tests and over all of this, threats of arrest and imprisonment for violating National Security! I will have more for you tomorrow on the possibility/probability of military action against Iran but in the meantime, here is a juicy bit for you. For the present, no names but they will follow. Seems a former White House aide, (Reagan White House) was caught running a male prostitution service and got fired from the Monkey Palace, and later from the RNC for supplying muscular boy toys to some top Beltway gays. Well, after being fired, our bozo got together with a Muslim druggie and set up operations at the Kennedy-Warren, a landmark DC apartment/business complex. They ran a male escort service supplying young studs to older Beltway citizens. Among these citizens were: Federal judges, top political figures, mostly Republican, very senior military people and certainly members of Congress. The head of this service, that utilized credit cards for payment, supplied young men, mostly young servicemen, between 18 to 25 for sex. They kept very complete records, including names and address of the johns as well as credit card receipts. And later there was blackmail and now, I have learned from the inside, this joker has sold the lists to: Iranians( through his partner’s Arab connections) and a gay group in DC. Sold the lists twice and got twice the money. I have seen a partial list and it reads like the DC social register, believe me! This enterprising young man is very liable to end up at the bottom of the Potomac River just like ex-CIA chief Bill Colby who was terminated by his former employees because he just couldn’t keep his mouth shut about certain things. I won’t have old Bill’s problem because I am not a Princeton man and even you don’t know who I am. You had the intestinal fortitude to print the material about the planned Iranian attack and maybe you will do the same with this one. I know a number of people inside the Beltway read your site…and loathe you…and if they read this and are closet queens, the sale of dignity pants will soar in the next few weeks. My, my, such lovely names! The Washington Times did a front page story on this joker some time back, by the way, but no one dared to touch him because of what, and whom, he knew…and serviced…”



stay tuned, two more avenues of this, from me and from Las Vegas.


it does involve CHILDREN


Karl

[seemslikeadream]

141. Karl here are a couple of links

to stuff we've been talking about

Conspiracy of Silence...MUST SEE!!!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=392459

Conspiracy of Silence...The Bush Rape Story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=409885

The DU 9/11 reading room
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1836172

[KWBS]

144. keep that thought clearly in mind

as the circle closes, like a bear trap

K

[starroute]

170. This is covered to some extent at Propaganda Matrix

It sounds like a lot of secrets are more than ripe to come out.


http://www.propagandamatrix.com/141003conspiracyofsilence.html

In mid-1993, after The Franklin Cover-Up had been circulating for almost a year, the British-based TV station, Yorkshire Television, sent a top-notch team to Nebraska to launch its own investigation of the Franklin case. Yorkshire had a contract with the Discovery Channel to produce a documentary on the case for American television.

<snip>

Finally, the big day came. Their documentary was to air nation-wide on the Discovery Channel on May 3, 1994. It was advertised in the TV Guide and in newspapers for that day. But no one ever saw that program. At the last minute, and without explanation, it was pulled from the air. It was not shown then, and has never been broadcast anywhere since.

<snip>

At the time the Yorkshire TV team and the Discovery Channel were doing the documentary, they had no idea how high up the case would go into Government, and what major institutions and personalities in this country, would be found to be linked to the Franklin story.

[KWBS]

193. The Franklin Story and more

This one is still embedded in DC but there are more, coming from two directions.

We have a bunch of sick, twisted people in DC

[RainDog]

150. here's the link for the tbrn post, btw

this link goes to the post above from the "Voice of the White House."

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1143.htm

after that post, there's a very interesting, long and with citations look at a previous post from that site about a possible invasion of Iran before the election.

who knows what's for real anymore...

[Pallas180]

183. holy tish. I hope it all comes out IMMEDIATELY. what a housecleaning

will take place by the American voter.

Please please tell me this is going to hit the fan BEFORE November 2.

Preferably the week before.

That gives you one week.

[tlcandie]

130. When trying to research something here on DU I found bioshield

and it IS something the US government is doing!!! I'm not sure of all the details, but #28 could very well be right on!

[Tapirlover]

134. karl schwarz

Let me assure you..Karl is correct..I have read his book and have seen the aftermath at places like Walter Reed and Bethesda Naval

[KWBS]

135. PROJECT BIOSHIELD

Signed into law during the summer.

When combined with the un-PATRIOT-ic Act, can force that deadly vaccine on all of us. That might be why Bush is not concerned about those jobs lost. Give that to all Americans, 2-3 million could be dead or completely out of the job market.

The Liberals have been bitching about Bush. You ought to be in the faces of the Liberals that have rolled over for this, but then - you are about to find out why they roll over,

figuratively and literally.

I have been all over the Far Right Christians for being so damned blind. Bush will have them tithing BIG OIL before they are finished and not their church.

Karl

[RainDog]

136. The PNAC document mentions this, from the 90s

They were already hoping to develop genetic weapons when they wrote the PNAC manifesto long ago. I forget what page it's on, but Will Pitt knows.

If this is possible, something I do wonder about, since race isn't clearcut at the genetic level, it is horrendous.

This concept is genocide, pure and simple. No matter how far removed it is from the ovens of Aushwitz, it is the same thing, with different victims.

Considering the Ottoman conquests and the Moors in Spain and thus up through northern Europe, many Americans would have "Arabic" genes as well.

As far as the pedophile issue...is this the same man who got a midnight guided tour of the White House by Bush Sr.? The same man who was from Omaha, I think it was?

I have no doubt that people have been bribed using their sexual pecadillos as bait. That was what started the entire Watergate fiasco.

But I'm waiting to see the evidence on this and so many of the other issues. (not that I don't think that Bush has already committed impeachable offenses because of the invasion of Iraq and the torture justifications, for example.)

If these things are brought forward, I'm afraid that America is such that people will only care if it's a sex scandal.

It seems we've been so enslaved by the idea that corporations are better than we are and therefore deserve special treatment at our expense, people no longer think corporations can or will be held accountable...and under the "leadership" of George Bush, this sad truth has gotten even worse, as the NYTimes reported today.

But you just have to look at what Enron and El Paso did to California to see that Americans are second-class citizens to corporations these days.

[KWBS]

137. oh yeah

they were salivating over the billions to be made way back then

We get people in DC stuck on stupid, they stay stuck on stupid.

Karl

[tlcandie]

139. And we thought this would be used on other people whom they

decided to invade!

[tlcandie]

138. Thanks to both of you and everyone else helping with uncovering

the lies and deceit! I said as of Nov. 3rd I'm no longer a democrat! How are you all able to pull this off, if you don't mind me asking, without dying to accidents and such which these types are infamous for?

[KWBS]

142. to answer your question

How does one deal with a terrorist?

By being that terrorists worst nightmare come true.

We have backing, lethal force backing. If we go down, our GORT goes into action.

Have you ever seen "the Day the Earth Stood Still"??

A policeman that does nothing, UNLESS SOMEONE SCREWS UP.

We are not the aggressors, but our response is precipatated only by heir aggression and it is more horrifying than anything they can do to any one of us. For example, IF I go down, who did that loses all. People I know would seek their extinction, entire family.

That is how one deters a terrorist.

[tlcandie]

145. Thank you again for your truthfulness

and the assurance that you have great support!! It would be nice if jebbie goes down too!!! One can only hope. :+

[Oilwellian]

140. I have a question for you Mr. Schwarz

Does your article to be posted by OnlineJournal have something to do with this? Also, are there any other media sources who plan to cover your story?

[KWBS]

143. answer

much deeper than that, much higher

[TexasChick]

146. Karl, I had a question 4U...see post #122...Stanley Hilton & Ellen Mariani

Thanks.


Jennifer

[KWBS]

167. answered at 122

you are welcome

[mike_c]

148. kicking to keep this on page one....

Welcome to DU KWSB! Keep skewering the bastards with the truth!

[tlcandie]

149. Yes, it dropped like a lead balloon....

:shrug:

[RedEagle]

152. They never followed the money on 9-11

What do you think of Dan's work here? This is the type of analysis that should have happened right away:


White House Memo Leads to Sept. 11th Money Trail
By Dan Spillane and Audrey Mantey, The Liberty Whistle
-At least five normally independent indicators moved in sync after Bush warned
-On Sept. 10th, instead of US citizens getting a warning, Halliburton got a contract

(10/6 UPDATE includes new Must see! MONEY TRAIL TO WHITE HOUSE GRAPHIC; click HERE .)

(SEATTLE) 09/30/04 - A series of new findings brings into doubt Bush Administration claims regarding September 11th, and shows the work of the 9-11 Commission is incomplete. According to what Bush told the public, and as documented in the 9-11 report, an August 6th 2001 memo delivered to the White House warned of imminent attacks (“Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US”)--but was described as “historical in nature,” and thus was essentially ignored by the White House. (1) Therefore, as far as the public knows, no actions were taken based on the memo.

It’s not as if the US hasn’t been looking for unusual pre-9-11 actions. In fact, the official 9-11 report examined stock trading before the attacks, and concluded with some degree of confidence that there weren’t profits taken based on information before the attacks. Unfortunately, the 9-11 report provides no details on how such analysis was done--and importantly, the report makes no mention of analyzing events in terms of the August 6th White House memo. In short, the 9-11 commission tried to find “needles in haystacks.”

Indeed, then it should be of no surprise that a comparison of trading specifically before and after August 6th, in terms of a number of normally independent indicators reveals more information, and illustrates an interesting and hitherto undiscovered convergence around the August 6th date. Incredibly, in this light, a major shift is visible in both market indicators, and in business announcements subsequent to the supposedly “ignored” warning memo.

Take for example, the stock of Halliburton Corporation, known so well for its association with US Vice President Dick Cheney. It plummeted on high volume immediately after the memo--previously having closely followed its own sector up until August 6th. Moreover, this divergence was punctuated not only by the date of August 6th, but was also underscored by a September 10th 2001 contract award to Halliburton. Astonishingly, on September 10th, 2001, the news read “Halliburton Unit Picked to Participate in Program to Reduce Threat of Weapons Of Mass Destruction.” (Source: Halliburton)

Click here to read about Sep 10, 2001 Halliburton WMD project award

But the September 11th “clairvoyance” didn’t stop at Halliburton. After the memo, signs began bleeding into the stock market at large. The stock market volatility index (the “VIX”), a measure of market fear, suddenly shot up after the August 6th memo. By September 10th 2001, the VIX index sharply spiked up forty-five percent--to a level in line with the Asian financial crisis. Yet, in the Asian crisis case, news of disaster was already out in the open, which contrasts sharply with environment of September 10th, 2001--when bad news wasn’t out. Remarkably, then, it’s fair to conclude certain stock market investors knew a crisis was going to happen--the day before. In effect, the VIX, while normally independent of Halliburton stock, suddenly moved in lockstep with Halliburton.

Next, in line with the spike in the VIX, yet another indicator foretold September 11th. The put/call stock options ratio--a measure of sophisticated investors betting on a market fall--peaked twice, to a level over one. First, the ratio peaked for the very options transition period immediately after the White House memo, and before September 11th (which crested on August 17th) and next, it peaked on September 10th, the day before the strike. Once again, the put/call ratio moves correspond with Halliburton steps and the August 6th and September 10th dates. Finally, at least one close associate of Mr. Cheney made a business move on September 10th.

What’s incredible is how many signs point to the fact that the White House knew about September 11th in advance, and leaked. Clearly, not one but at least five pieces of evidence exist. The evidence of the unusual stock pattern of Halliburton after the White House warning memo, the special advance timing of the Halliburton WMD contract, the VIX and put/call indicators, and more, showed the White House leaked the September 11th warning to a select few. But alas, no real actions were taken to defend the American people. No, instead, actions were taken to defend Halliburton stockholders and a select few, and further, to enhance their profits.

The simplified charts below show how Halliburton stock turned on high volume when the memo hit the White House; the memo is illustrated by the line bisecting the graphs.

A large, comprehensive graphic is shown, illustrating all the patterns converging around the August 6th memo:

Click here for LARGE CHART showing MONEY TRAIL TO WHITE HOUSE

Footnotes: 1) “The President told us the August 6 report was historical in nature.” (9-11 report, chapter 8)

(Dan Spillane is a computer scientist living in Seattle, Washington, who also studies economics, pure science, and politics. Working with Bev Harris in 2002 and early 2003, he exposed problems related to electronic voting systems certification and Diebold; this set the stage for discussion of the issue at the national level.)

(Audrey Mantey is an instructor at an arts academy in Michigan. She worked in US military intelligence/counterintelligence for over a decade.)


www.libertywhistle.us

[KWBS]

195. They never followed the money because

8 of the 10 9-11 Commissioners are directly or indirectly benefiting from Bush War policy and Bush Energy policy.

What is 3,000 dead compared to $10 trillion in deals to do?

They were playing Where's Waldo? Didn't you get the memo?

We need more "undermining of American freedoms" because sooner or later America is going to figure it out and is going to come after their greedy sorry asses.

[Karenina]

173. Back to One!

:kick:

[Tapirlover]

151. truth

kicking ass,Karl

[wrate]

153. Karl, how do you stop something this gargantuan?

You suggest that votes/democracy will help get rid of this people. I don't see how. How far and deep does this corruption go? How do you know who to trust and therefor vote for?

Trillion dollar deals can overthrow governments, buy just about ANYONE! This people are incredibly powerful. Who would be willing to send them to jail? Even if the truth comes out, how do you prove all of this in a court of law when the law was created first and foremost to perpetuate their power? And if all of this is not enough, they own the media and they can make all the noise (spread misinformation) they want. Which pretty much renders Democracy USELESS.

And finally, isn't Democracy their best ally? It certainly seems so.

[CreekDog]

155. Isn't Patmos the island where the Apostle Paul was imprisoned and died?

that's the name of Karl Schwarz's company.

Patmos LLC

[rsmith6621]

159. Posted by CreekDog

Isn't Patmos the island where the Apostle Paul was imprisoned and died?

No........Patmos was were St John wrote the Book of Revelation...St Paul was prisoned in Rome and was BEHEADED there.

[RainDog]

162. John, not Paul

The Isle of Patmos was were John wrote the book of Revelations, according to church doctrine.

[rsmith6621]

163. RainDog

Isnt that what I said in my reply????????

[RainDog]

165. we replied at the same time

I was responding to the same post you were...

Vacation Bible School still comes in handy, all these years later.

:)

[rsmith6621]

169. Yes it Does RainDog

So Does a Year and a Half of Sem.........But what Shrubyas doing aint the Lords work........:)

[RainDog]

158. Sex scandals

that's the only thing too many Americans will get outraged about, as I mentioned above.

it's easy to understand, unlike Iran/Contra or BCCI or the Caspian pipeline or shell companies and fraud, ala Enron.

It's a shame to say that most Americans do not care to take the time to understand who is stealing from them, via their tax dollars, in order to screw them over, but it's true.

How many people complained about wasting 70 million for a show trial for Clinton for something that was not in any way condonable, but was not an impeachable offense? (i.e. a high crime or misdemeanor, especially considering the lies of George W. as a marker for Congressional action...by the "Clinton standard," Eisenhower was not acceptable, nor Bush Sr. nor the founders, for that matter, not to mention other Democrats, notably Kennedy.)

but the fact that Bush tried to stop an investigation into 9-11 for a year, and then the investigation only received 4 million...for an issue of much greater importance than Bill's blow job...

or the fact that Kean was in biz with the Saudis via Amereda Hess/Delta Oil, as Fortune reported, until three weeks before his appointment is also a non-issue.

of course, much blame goes to the current media focus on scandal and infotainment. If we do not have responsible talking heads (I cannot honestly call them journalists for the most part) who are willing to explain issues, then how can we expect people who are working two jobs to know about these things?

[KWBS]

192. How do we WIN?

There is a huge group working on that right now. It would take multiple election cycles (the main elections and the mid-terms like 2004, 2006, 2008, etc)

A third party is being formed, well financed, including the media power to keep the truth on the table - as in not relying on FOXNews, CNN, CBS, etc

The Silent Majority is more than enough to turn it back, but they have to get in gear and do something for a change.

I pin this on three things - people stupidly trusting their government, the lies they tell the public and the media that sits there and aids and abets them.

[chelaque liberal]

156. Keep Kicked

Way too much to let slip.

[KWBS]

157. Sure fire way to tell when someone's balls

are in a vise.

Have only received 3 hate emails in past 30 days and well over 10,000 from Liberals, moderates, Libertarians and Conservatives.

This just showed up at 11:20pm at night. Burning midnight oil on the East Coast:


-----Original Message-----
From: Karl W. B. Schwarz
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:20 PM
To: AmericanPatriot
Subject: RE: You're Nothing But A Liar


Keep that thought as the Truth escalates over the coming days.

I keep my companies very private, for freaks like you.

Patmos is quite real, domiciled in Arkansas, plant is elsewhere.

sorry to burst your bubble

Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: AmericanPatriot
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 9:37 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: You're Nothing But A Liar


We're onto you and we're going to reveal you for the fraud you actually are. You companies you claim to be part of aren't even real. You're nothing but a crazy nutcase liberal spreading a bunch of bs conspiracy theories. The whole conservative community is going to reaveal all of your lies and reveal you for the fraud you actually are. We're going to show that all of these Kerry supporters are just as crazy as you are and make absolutely sure Kerry has no chance of reelection. I've posted on several forums and we're all working on it as we speak.

http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15512
http://celiberal.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7731
http://p209.ezboard.com/ftrueconservatismfrm2.showMessage?topicID=5552.topic
http://p089.ezboard.com/famericanconservativefrm1.showMessage?topicID=9333.topic
http://p222.ezboard.com/fconservativeweeklyfrm2.showMessage?topicID=3227.topic

PABAAH is also involved. We're going to boycott your stupid book and make sure it never reaches the newsstands. Slander and lies against our president will not be tolerated by consumers.



such attacks only come from scared people

[RainDog]

164. What is pabaah?

Frankly, I don't know who you are, but if you have information and evidence about criminal activities that led to soldiers getting killed for oil company greed, I thank you for caring enough about the lives of those who put themselves on the line thinking they're serving for our protection (not profit protection) to expose the liars.

As someone mentioned above, General Smedley Butler learned about such robber baron tricks the hard way, in the trenches of WW I and when he stood with his men against a president who attacked our own soldiers who simply wanted their promised pay for risking their lives.

Butler also wouldn't go along with a coup against FDR that was cooked up by American fascists of that era.

Funny how his House testimony is left out of American history lessons for children. It's a powerful story to know, especially these days.

[Pallas180]

185. "American Fascists" were the oil and banking families btw,

this time the coup was sneakier than in Roosevelt's day.

[Oilwellian]

168. hahaha

It looks like you've started a Freeperfest. I recall reading a thorough explanation of how your business is set up...perhaps it was on the thread at the Kerry website. That thread is so HUGE now, I doubt I could find that particular entry. Perhaps you could give a fuller explanation here as well. I'd love to see the wingnuts heads explode. :D

[Hutzpa]

166. OMG!!!!! Go tell them hell is on the way, you hear..........

I say hell is coming to your door step.

Is this the October Surprise or what?


Karl Schwarz MAY GOD ETERNAL BLESS YOU, MAY HE GUIDE YOU AND PROTECT YOU from these demons of past


HELL IS COMING AND ITS NOT GOING TO LOOK PRETTY


:bounce: :toast:

[kermujin]

179. re-kick

[Bundbuster]

180. Yes, let's talk about the OCTOPUS

The petro-prison-military-industrial-Dominionist-media-IMF-WTO-World Bank complex which seeks to strangle this planet.

I tried to raise a logical question here about a year ago:

The neocons may be evil but they are not stupid. They may deny, dismiss, and refuse to resolve issues such as global warming, environmental degradation, overpoplulation, or Peak Oil in public, but they know full well the ramifications. AND they have a strong priority of passing down an inhabitable planet to their heirs. If current policies are not altered, experts have estimated that in order to reasonably balance sustainable global resource & population demands within 10-15 years, a reduction of between 2 and 3 BILLION "inhabitants" would be required. The neocons KNOW this, and they also know that their conventional wars are not an effective means for achieving this.

I'd like to hear Karl or any DUers suggest just what plans the neocons have in mind to pass on their Manifest Destiny Privilege Planet to their holy heirs...

Limited nuclear wars?
Genetically specific diseases?
External "resource" wars which never touch our shores?
Control & privatization of the world's water supply?
Accelerating & enabling external conflicts such as Pakistan-India?
Economic Darwinism, rationalizing outright mass famine & starvation?

Depressing stuff, but unfortunately on their program.

[Beam Me Up]

181. To succeed, they need to generate a mythology for the survivors

The future can not know what actually happened (any more than, say, we actually know what happened with the Kennedy assassination). What has to exist for the survivors is a "story" that accounts for significant deaths on a planetary scale. Just as 9/11 has become the myth which justifies the GWOT (to borrow Karls acronym), what ever is to come about, the ground work must be laid in the psyche that becomes the future myth that accounts for the past. No one will question it. No one will know that it wasn't just some 'horrible accident.'

All it would take is one small nuke in any major city to justify the use of nuclear force against non-nuclear nations designated as terrorists threats.

[Bundbuster]

186. The mythology is already being cultivated

Every bush/chenyism of "mushroom cloud" and "WMD-related programs" is a brick in the foundation being laid - conditioning us for the "inevitable", if you will.

[Pallas180]

187. Think about it. All of the above has already started. No flu

vaccine. There will be deaths.

Reagan wouldn't do anything about AIDS. Pandemic around the world.
And I'm certain that's one of our little bio-engineered diseases just
as West Nile Virus is.

Aids is working for them. West Nile Virus apparently not quickly enough

The pharmaceutical companies for the first time in history are in control of this country. And we find out that Bextra, Vioxx and several others given to people with arthritis for pain, a very common malady, is causing strokes and heart attacks. Hmmm. another interesting way to get rid of people.

The vaccinations for "mental health" - I dont even want to think about that.

Anthrax attacks with not enough Cipro to go around.

Nuclear attacks by the terra-ists. (Only the terra-ists are in the
White House.)

Yep, new strains of viruses.

And funny, the number of new diseases that are coming out.

SARS

Bird Flu?

And how many doctors like the one running for congress who has been exposed are practicing "eugenics"? - sterilizations, a system instituted by the Mellons and Carnegies and Rockefellers and practiced in this country from the 1930's on?

The Water Supply. Now that's really scary.

[Bundbuster]

189. Brace yourself - "Race-Targetable Biological Weaponry"

from http://www.peace.ca/racetargetablebioweapons.htm

A suspicious pattern of deaths of prominent microbiologists has emerged around
the world, but especially highly-advanced researchers connected with the USA,
the UK, Russia, and Israel, and who were known to be familiar with this arcane
branch of germ weapons research.

Are these people being killed in order to hush a scandalous, monstrous fact of
recent research in this field -- that secret services in major countries are
investigating how to kill off whole races of people with germ weapons -- even
developing the means to do that?

What accounts for the appearance of AIDS (HIV), and now SARS, which have
predominantly victimized people of other than European ancestry? That may not
really apply, but what of the facts in this matter? Do people high up in
Israeli and US government really intend to develop germ weapons that will
selectively attack or kill off certain races of people?

The fake presidency -- the Bush regime -- is known to be influenced by
individuals who advocate this kind of research ... in fact, specifically
calling for the "political usefulness" of gene-targetable bio-weapons.

Much more - http://www.peace.ca/racetargetablebioweapons.htm

[Pallas180]

212. That may be a problem for Israel. And yes I do believe they

have been working on this for several years.

There was an Israeli scientist posting on DU a year or so, (probably more) and we had discussions about what they were researching with
DNA etc.

His work apparently found that all Jewish people, ALL, were ancestorally related to 22 Persian women. It didn't matter if you were a French Jew or a Russian Jew or an American Jew. Your genes went back to Persia (now Iran) and these 22 Persian women.

Now if they wanted to get rid of all Arabs, they have a problem. Although Persians don't consider themselves Arabs, Abraham (originally of the Chaldean tribe) was the father of both Arabs and Jews.

Then you have the problem of intermarriage and mingling of races.
For example, Madeline Albright didn't know she had Jewish ancestors and apparently neither did John Kerry. Hmmmm. A lot of upstanding
Catholic and Protestant types might find themselves genetically genocided. (I would hope evil personified Kissinger who has his hand in every nasty operation would be one of the first - :) )

To genetically committ genocide on Arabs would also kill all Jews.
Israel wouldn't do that - but then again, such a weapon isn't only in
the hands of the Israelis.

And the Kissingers, Cheneys,David Rockefellers, Zbrinski's and Bushes of this world don't give a damn about the non-elite.

Actually this type of chem-biowarfare experimenting began in World War 2 not necessarily only by the Germans, but the Japanese were practicing experiments on the Chinese. After the war, the Japanese
scientists and their experiments were brought to America to continue their work.

Dulles.

Dulles and the Bush and the oil and banking people have long been involved in long term plans, for the "New World Order" aka the Fourth Reich in my opinion. the Nazi-Fascist true believers have never gone away...and that puts Pappy and Jr. in the forefront, having learned at
Preston Bush's knee.

[RainDog]

201. Not necessarily anything "funny" about it

Viruses mutate. That's how they survive. Evolution has shown, again and again, that adaptation via mutation works for the survival of a variety of species.

Anti-biotics that are prescribed indiscriminately help this along. Why are they prescribed? Often people want "treatment" rather than accept that some things must run their course.

Bacteria, not viruses, are the target, but people don't distinguish between the two.

Just like doctors often pander to patients, politicians pander to their constiuents. Reagan ignored AIDS because it was occuring in a group that his base not only didn't care about, but actively hated: gay males.

Bush, after 9-11 refused to use his clout to break the patent on Cipro, unlike Canada, so that Bayer could maximize profits. Bayer was in financial trouble. They wanted the money.

Not to say that rules out the possibility that Americans were not the source of the anthrax. According to best evidence thus far, they were. The anthrax also targeted "interesting" people, and was also "interestingly" timed.

But often, more than "grand conspiracies," the interplay of greed and power and pandering creates problems because money for a powerful few comes before issues of national interest.

[KWBS]

194. They have many plans

1. Limited nuclear wars?

**We still have the Kissinger, Brezinski, Rumsfeld crowd that wants big defense and with Russia off the map, no acknowledgment that the PRC is probably the biggest threat to resource competition and military aims, they needed a "scapegoat" - so we get a GWOT. About as bogus as anything DC has ever dreamed up.

Remember the words of Rockefeller and Kissinger:

“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there's an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger

Those are two babbling fools well positioned to do well as others are plundered or sacrificed.

These morons think they can swing out the nukes to pave the way, but they fail to realize that from such "TERRORISM" people will fight back and fight them all the way.


2. Genetically specific diseases?

""That is a CBW program that has been in the works for years. From any technology there is the potential for good and evil. Carbon nanotubes can be used for either and some plan to use them for evil. We have seen as well as anyone what they are capable of doing. For example, developed a nanosensor for a federal agency, they declined to procure. We are commercializing it. Has many uses that are good, but some that would not be. Sort of like cloning, comes down to an ethics issue and whether one stand for good or will do evil.

There is a RFP out called "CNT Decontamination" that is not about decontaminating Carbon Nanotubes. It is about creating anti-CBW, anti-dirty bomb CNT systems that bond with the free floating particles. Not even sure we are going to compete for the contract - it takes volume and purity - both of which we will soon have as machines come online - but it is the thought of what our government has a propensity to do.

We learned about CNT DECON from the NCTR, National Center for Toxological Research, Whitehall, AR.

When was the last time you saw DC do something that was not a travesty, a charade, a scam, an act of despicable conduct? Been a while, has it not?

3. External "resource" wars which never touch our shores?

**The Caspian Basin is all about not letting China control the world oil dynamic.

4. Control & privatization of the world's water supply?

**That is in process, including in Iraq privatization deals that are infuriating the Iraqis.

5. Accelerating & enabling external conflicts such as Pakistan-India?

**Or Africa, or South America, or any place the Neocons do not call home - or any country unlucky enough to have oil or other strategic resources.


6. Economic Darwinism, rationalizing outright mass famine & starvation?

**that is already in progress. The recent $1 trillion transfer of wealth scam (and no rule of law from DC) is a good one to point at. What has happend over the past 4 years has put many families under, drained their savings, their backs are against the wall or INTO the wall. That is exactly what some want.


Depressing stuff, but unfortunately on their program.

**Yes, it is but it is always darkest before the dawn.

**There is an awakening in progress right now and millions are seeing clearly what they could not see before.

[tlcandie]

206. The ruling elite of the world

have always taken the GREAT discoveries and turned them against the people. ALWAYS!

So far the internet is the only thing they've not been able to change/ fix and it may well be their downfall!!!!!

[Pallas180]

214. the famines and genocides in Africa and the fact that America

has done nothing, nothing to stop it.

Like 9 11, allowing it to happen or behind the occurrence. Takes care
of an unwanted, "non=productive", un-useful population.

Like the FEMA "detention" camps planned under Reagan in the early 80's and written by Oliver North. The population at the time in the US was about 210 million; the camps were planned to hold 21 million or about 10% of the population. The first in line to go are the blacks, the second: the hispanics, the third: the dissenters.

Under Dim Son, last I read, he had three of these camps (concentration camps is another word that comes to mind) immediately
built at the same time "Homeland Security" came into being with the
Patriot Act.

Reagan's purpose was to put away any who would be against and protest the WARS he planned.

Google FEMA + Oliver North, or FEMA + Reagan.

READ.

[Petrodollar Warfare]

225. KWBS - Please review - Analysis of Iran (& relates to Iraq).....

Karl,
First, I commend you for your patriotism and courage. You are doing good work. I would add one more important dynamic to the global issues - the petrodollar vs petroeuro issues and competition for World Reserve currency status. Here's one recent essay for consideration, and below is the original essay below.

I hope you find this info useful. Keep up the good work.

1) The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target (Sept. 2004)
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/117624.php

Summary:
The Iranians are about to commit an offense far greater than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro for his oil exports back in the fall of 2000. In March 2005 Iran is going to start competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-based international oil-trading mechanism. Numerous articles have revealed Pentagon planning for operations against Iran in 2005. The publicly stated reasons will be over Iran's nuclear ambitions, but the following unspoken macroeconomic issues explain the Real Reasons regarding the 2nd stage of petrodollar warfare - Iran's upcoming euro-denominated oil Bourse.


2) Revisited - The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq:
A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth (Jan 2003, updated Jan 2004)
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

Summary:
Although completely unreported by the U.S. media and government, the answer to the Iraq enigma is simple yet shocking -- it is in large part an oil currency war. One of the core reasons for this upcoming war is this administration's goal of preventing further Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) momentum towards the euro as an oil transaction currency standard. However, in order to pre-empt OPEC, they need to gain geo-strategic control of Iraq along with its 2nd largest proven oil reserves. The second coalescing factor that is driving the Iraq war is the quiet acknowledgement by respected oil geologists and possibly this administration is the impending phenomenon known as Global "Peak Oil." This is projected to occur around 2010, with Iraq and Saudi Arabia being the final two nations to reach peak oil production.

The issue of Peak Oil has been added to the scope of this essay, along with the macroeconomics of `petrodollar recycling' and the unpublicized but genuine challenge to U.S. dollar hegemony from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency. The author advocates graduated reform of the global monetary system including a dollar/euro currency `trading band' with reserve status parity, a dual OPEC oil transaction standard, and multilateral treaties via the UN regarding energy reform. Such reforms could potentially reduce future oil currency and oil warfare. The essay ends with a reflection and critique of current US economic and foreign policies. What happens in the 2004 US elections will have a large impact on the 21st century.

[BernieBear]

229. Reducing the herd

Vaccinations targeted to specific groups. AKA, we don't have enough so only those who really need it should get it (those of you who are old or sickly and thus ripe for the pick-off)

Scalar Weather

Man made "rapture"

They're creative, they'll think of something.....

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

182. i'm sorry, but

a lot of this strikes me as BS....if there is any truth to all this then shiite or vacate the room for other matters....

GOTV on November 2!

[Pallas180]

188. Nostalgic, I dont think you've been around long enough to have

formed a reasonable opinion.

See if you can search the archives for the Plame Threads. There are
20 of them.

Go further up thread and click on the links to "Sibel Speaks Farsi".

Research done months ago, for the past 6 months, independently, backs
up what this fellow is saying.

The secret is to read and read and read...lots of learning - most of
it horrifying that our own government could have done and is doing these things. And we found it all from respectable sources on the net.

Just needed putting it together.


And by the way, this mess is going to take more than just voting to
clean up.

It's going to take people like Mr. Swarz to ram it down the throats of
people who dont want to hear it........to get Americans to rise up against special interests and corporations bleeding them and killing them..... because people, somewhat like yourself, cannot believe what
is right in front of them -

"Tell the biggest lie, and keep repeating and repeating it, and the people will believe you" - Goebbels

Don't you wonder why F. U. Cheney and the Dim Son keep repeating the same thing over and over and over?

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

190. Pallas...thanks for the feedback....

right now i cannot search but understand some of the connections...it just seems odd and little too 'conspiracy theory' for me....

- Sibel uncovers that 9/11 LIHOP or MIHOP is very likely from as yet untranslated files...

- there is info saying that 9/11 was a response to get the oil pipeline under US control

- Some pedophile ring is involved at the high levels...

this is really stretching it....yet i see no fruits of the 'downfall'....when should we expect 'the next step'? are we waiting for 1M people to email the MSM that will likely just ignore it anyway??? What is the smoking gun? how is this being brought to the forefront except backwater websites, K/E forum, and these posts here?

Am I waiting for some big disclosure in the next few days? Will 'all be revealed' before 11/2? Is this what the "angry CIA" will use to out Bush?

I am a skeptic and frankly would like to see more 'proof'....that is all.

So my basic questions:

- what is the timeline for events in the next two weeks on this?
- what is the evidence 'that can't be ignored'?

[tlcandie]

191. Karl personally stated that he had

backup and if he was found dead that this all would be blown out of the water like nobody's business.

So, IMO, I don't know of anyone else able to protect him and the other 3 people in on uncovering all this except CIA or someone such as that with connections...the ones that everyone keeps talking about won't stand down and let Bush, et al take and run this country into the ground for greed.

He also states it is coming before the election. He's been on the inside and seems to have connected all of the dots.

:shrug:

[chelaque liberal]

197. I understand your skepticism

I am 53 years old and for all of my adult I have lived with questions about the reality most of the mainstream culture accepts. Having all of this exposed, and the paradigm shift it would create, would be monumental.

I want to believe it, but I almost can't let myself.

[RainDog]

198. Skepticism is good

I totally agree with you that more than allegations are needed, and, like you, I am waiting to see some proof.

Events occur that can be interpreted in more than one way, depending upon existing biases.

However, the issue of Sibel Edmonds, for instance, has been covered on 60 minutes and Salon and other media outlets. She has been supported by two bipartisan senators who have requested answers to her questions. Please google her name for the transcripts, because I do not have time right now to do so for you. You could even post the links here.

Or you can surely read loads of information here, probably from links to DU that are already on this thread. You have to read and parse those things which can be verified by multiple sources.

Of course there is going to be wild speculation because people do not know...information is being suppressed, but that doesn't mean the issue itself is "out there." It means that it is important for we, the American people, to have explanations in order to make informed decisions.

Edmonds' chief accusations are that one of the translators, "Can" Dickerson, and her (Military) husband, tried to recruit Edmonds and her husband to work for one of the groups that was under surviellance via the translation work. Dickerson left the country since these allegations. These are the translations that dealt with money laundering, etc. in Dickerson's case.

Edmonds also claims that translations were suppressed or slowed down or inadequately done for more than one reason, but the FBI was not held responsible for these suppressions, etc.

also-
Google the Mother Jones' article, Pipe Dreams.

Read Forbidden Truth, which, an award-winning investigative reporter who knows about these issues as well told me, was all taken from "public sources." This book deals with the pipeline issue, Uncocal, and the sources of funding for various American and Saudi groups. The two reporters in this book ask lots of questions that deserve answers.

Are you famliar with the Iran/Contra scandal? One good book to read, ESSENTIAL reading, imo, is Lost History, by Robert Parry.

He's another investigative reporter, nominated for a Pulitzer, who first uncovered much of the extraconstitutional and thus illegal (not to mention TERRIBLE for our democracy) arms trading and drug running for partisan gain.

Read Chip Berlet's Old Nazis, New Right, and the Republican Party, with more interesting information about pandering to some scary people.

Are you familiar with BCCI?

Oaf of Office, for one, can give you some important links and information about that banking scandal, the largest bank fraud in WORLD history, which began in Pakistan and involved people in the highest levels of power around the world.

Both BCCI and Iran/Contra were dismissed as "conspiracy theories" when they were first surfacing. They turned out to be real scandals, real problems, real crimes. Without real accountability to this day.

The Grand Chessboard is the title of a book about strategy in world politics, by Brezinski (whose name I just misspelled). At issue in all this is how much the American people should have a say in how our foreign and domestic policy is carried out, for what ends, and what options we might have instead of domination which is called national security.

Blowback, by Chalmers Johnson, talks about consequences for our govt actions, and is important to think about. Again, we the people are supposed to have a say and are supposed to be able to hold public officials accountable for policy.

As far as the pedophile accusations...I reserve judgment on that one until there is real information. However, it would be naive to assume that people at the highest levels of power around the world are not manipulated in any way possible in order to make them blackmailable.

Not that that makes the accusations true. However, people who are all about the exercise of power will do many unscrupulous things to gain and maintain power without having to resort to "muscle" to do so, and people in the highest levels of power are also not always examples of propriety.

As far as tbrn- I honestly do not know what to think about the information that comes from that site. It's interesting to read to see if there is any truth to the accusations that can be verified, but it also has lots of unverifiable trash talk...which may be true, but who can know.

The big power capitalists in this nation have acted for both good and bad ends.

Elitist theory holds that the the governing and biz elite have often acted to advance democracy (such as in civil rights issues) in advance of public opinion. Public opinion polling regularly shows, in fact, that Americans are less supportive of democracy and the bill of rights than the elites, often.

But these same elites may also act in ways that are more narrowly beneficial, esp. in financial matters, both domestically and internationally. If these same elites employ the military to inforce their financial gain, this is a crime and an abuse of our government.

when the government, in turn, refuses to investigate or is complicit in such actions, this, too, is an abuse of power and a betrayal of principles.

[chelaque liberal]

202. I have read most of your references

and the implications are consistent with my world view. My friends and family believe I have a closet full of tinfoil hats.

My skepticism is that this will go anywhere, or if it does that anything will change. Iran/Contra was proven to be true but most of those players are back in power and Oliver North is now a talking head. What were the consequences?

I do question the pedophile accusations as a blanket explanation for why so many people have kept quiet. Statistically speaking, there just can't be that many pedophiles in positions of power. I can't believe everyone is "black-mailable" to this extent. There has to be another (several) explanations.

Thank you for your long and thoughtful reply.

[RainDog]

204. The Watergate break-in was a prostitution scam

According to Colodny and Gitlin, the "plumbers" had already planted a bug in an office at dem headqtrs because a guy was using a spare office to arrange "dates" for visitors to D.C. and others...just plain old hetero-style prostitution, though. They got caught during another visit...maybe to remove the bugs?

the dirty tricksters had already done background on this, but there were too many Republicans also implicated in their earlier bugs, so they narrowcasted their focus to Dems.

But I agree with you that I have doubts that the financial crimes will yield any real change, and, yes, Iran/Contra is the evidence to support such doubt.

North should be in prison.

Elliot Abrams, John Poindexter, Otto Reich...all of these men are back exercising power at the highest levels of our govt. It's enough to make you want to scream. They are all dangers to our nation, imo. But Bush embraces their horrible policies.

That's why I said, elsewhere on this thread, that the sex scandals are the only thing that it would seem will outrage Americans enough to demand accountability.

Sad but true, since sex scandals have little to do with the well being of democracy.

[Pallas180]

208. I agree. The sex scandals get the "public's" attention & if that's what

it takes to wake them up - so be it.

Many of the impeachment managers including Gingrich were involved in
extramarital affairs, Livingstone was into sadistic sex and had to resign, lots of nasty sexual history about republicans on the impeachment and judicial committee came out.

Do I believe there will be an expose'? YES.

Republican Philip Crane ( Ohio ) sat in congress for years with an
ankle "bracelet" on his leg for attacking/raping a young intern -male.

We know about Bennett - the arbiter of "family values".

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ralph Reed was exposed as gay -

And wouldn't it be delicious to have some sordid sexual perversion on
Robertson and Fat Falwell?

Gee - I hope they're included.

RainDog - the thing you keep pointing out, as I have, is that in order
to know what's going on - YOU HAVE TO READ.

I think that's why most Americans don't know anything except the propaganda they hear on tv.

They dont do the work. The work is READING.

Many of us have layed out the sites for them here. But they don't want to spend the time going to them and READING the evidence and proof, therefore they continue with their uninformed skepticism.

We are an instantaneous gratification dumbed down society.

It has to be layed out in simple short sentences in order for the
lazy to get it.

Am I insulting the people who dont go to the sites suggested and read?

YES. You bet.

I question whether people who are too lazy to put their brains and eyes in gear by simply clicking on a URL are worth the effort.

[Dem2theMax]

196. Kicking to get this back to the top where it HAS TO REMAIN.

:kick:


Now I'm going to go and try to pick my jaw up from the floor.


Karl W. B. Schwarz - bless you for doing this. I don't know about anyone else, but I have literally been praying that the truth would come out before the election and that for once, those who refuse to see the truth, finally WILL see it. I'm going to keep praying. You keep working and let us know what we can do to help.

[BernieBear]

230. "Kicking"?

What does this "kicking" mean? Is it something you do?

Thank you,

BB

[KWBS]

199. From the KERRY FORUM developing NEWS

KWBS

I trust you caught my earlier post regarding Andy Fastow, being involved in two prior scams named Penn Central and that cratered Continental Illinois Bank. Andy learned his "SPE" skills from Milken and others and was hired by Enron because he did so well at hiding stuff at Continental Illinois.

Mayer Brown Rowe & Maw (Richard ben Veniste's law firm and him on the 9-11 Commission) prides themselves in offshore SPEs to circumvent US law, hide assets, offshore games, SPEs, etc and was the major law firm representing ENRON. Probably are still representing Cayman Islands based Prisma Energy International.

If you look under http://www.prismaenergy.com/ - "Corporate Governance" - there are many former Enron Intl and Halliburton. This is an excellent example of the "hired help" stealing the company from its owners . Feel free to pass that on to any "screwed over Enron folks" of which there are many.

Karl






Thanks, actually the press has been pretty good here about keeping tabs on the Enron(s), but some of that is definately newsworthy. Still unbelievable sometimes.






Since I invest in the stock market, I get financial news on certain companies since this can drive stock prices. This is another layer in the thickening plot.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories....02260384&EDATE=
"FOLSOM, Calif., Sept. 28 /PRNewswire/ -- Jadoo Power Systems, Inc (Jadoo),
a leading provider of portable power products, was awarded a contract to
develop power systems for the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM). The
program's goal is to reduce the weight of energy storage carried in the field
by the Special Forces....."

While the award of a gov't contract is not always newsworthy, a closer look reveals this:
http://www.jadoopower.com/investor.html
"Jadoo Power Systems, Inc. (Jadoo) is a market-focused company that has developed next-generation portable energy storage and power generation products. Jadoo is a privately-held company with individual and organizational investors."

The two investors listed are:
1. Sinclair Ventures: a wholly owned subsidiary of Sinclair Broadcast Group, Inc. and
2. Contango Capital Management: formed to bring capital to innovative entrepreneurs who are working hard to answer the energy challenges facing our world today and in the near future.

We know who Sinclair is (Stolen Honor), but check out where some Enron and Harvard Business School people now work:
Contango Capital Partners - look at John Berger's "resume"
http://www.contangocapital.com/team/jberger.html

Karl,

Am I getting closer to one end of this spectrum?

~D







YES, you are. On anything you see coming out of DC first ID two things - the influence pimp behind it and who they are doing it for.

This is NEWS WORTHY what you just posted but try to get them to focus on that ball. The KERRY RESEARCH PEOPLE should put this in America's face LIKE TODAY and keep hitting that. Sinclair is after KERRY, FINE - SHOOT BACK AND SHOOT TO KILL.

Second - think of DC as a Mercedes Benz ornament / symbol. One tip is the influence pimps. The second is the "deal trigger" such as what happened with Sinclair above - who benefits, follow the money. They can bully, buy or blackmail themselves into millions, billions or more. The third - a "bend over to get power" bisexual ring that automatically co-opts the "receivee", those that co-opt for cause to keep certain parties IN LINE, and the group that is so preverse they have rings that deliver children to the predators in DC for pedophilia like one would deliver food fish to an aquarium. You would not believe what some in our capitol do to children, and then hold themselves up as "PRO-FAMILY" or our GREAT LEADERS.

Third - think of a media that covers this all up, for they are part of the sleaze too in many instances.

NOW, you cited Mr. Berger. GOOD DUE DILIGENCE.


John Berger
Managing Partner
Contango Capital Partners
Mr. Berger is a founding partner of the General Partner and its Managing Partner. Mr. Berger has over eight years of experience in the energy industry, during which he managed energy trading books for Enron Corporation and initiated development of the new Enron Premium Power Division. As a Manager, he made the previously unprofitable southeast short term trading operation for the Enron East Power Trading Division profitable by approximately $30 million over a two year period. Under his management, the southeast short term trading operation successfully administered the largest long-term customer deal in the industry, and increased the average daily volume in the southeast trading hub by ten times the former volume. Mr. Berger also managed the Enron Hourly Trading Desk, and operated a utility system in the southeastern United States. At Enron Energy Services he led and developed Enron's corporate strategy for new energy technologies and energy reliability financial products. In addition, Mr. Berger spearheaded development, investment, and partnership opportunities in fuel cell technologies.

that is the EXACT division of Enron that was plundering the State of California, both Enron and El Paso execs have pled guilty to CRIMINAL CHARGES and Mr. Berger gets to go out and do more deals. CRIMINAL CHARGES are pending against DYNEGY.

Guess what - Enron, Dynegy, El Paso are ALL INVOLVED in Pakistan and the Caspian Basin.

Of course, he worked under Thomas White, vice chairman of that division that was promoted by BUSH to Secretary of the Army during the period of time that BUSH & Co were planning and practicing the ASSAULT on Afghanistan and BRIDAS CORPORATION and take over that Afghanistan pipeline.

GET IT?

Criminal charges were pending, and NOW CONFIRMED with an Enron exec pleading guilty in California and El Paso too.

What an easy way to co-opt someone into doing evil. CRIMINAL CHARGES - that up and vanish against all but an unlucky fall guy.

Go AN INCH DEEPER

WHO WAS REPRESENTING Gov GRAY DAVIS WHILE ALL OF THIS WAS SPINNING UP TO THE TORNADO IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN???????

From Chapter 13::

Footnote 689:

http://www.sacbee.com/static/archive/news/...80401data.html; Meanwhile, Joseph Fichera and Michael Hoffman, two Davis administration advisers who had been criticized for failing to disclose energy-related stock holdings, sent letters to Davis on Friday saying they owned no stock in firms involved in providing power to the state.

Footnote 693:

http://www.ss.ca.gov/executive/press_relea...ctors_grid.pdf; Special Consultants to Gov.; Name Agreement Date Service Term Date SEI Signed Notes Richard Ferreira 1/30/01 1/31/01 to 12/31/02 7/10/01 A-1 assets listed; $2k-$10k Calpine acquired 8/17/00; address redacted
Joseph Fichera - Saber Partners 3/1/01 3/1/01 to 6/30/01 exemption 1 negotiated transmission line deal; commission contract
** Kevin Stacey (director)
** William Moore (director)
** Paul Sutherland (director)
** Alan Blinder (advisory board chair)
Michael Hoffman - Blackstone Group 3/1/01 3/1/01 to 6/30/01 exemption 1 negotiated transmission line deal; commission contract
** Peter Peterson (chairman)
** Stephen Schwarzman (pres & ceo)
** Michael Puglisi (cfo)
** 15 staff working on the deal


Now, did you catch my earlier post as to why I call Blackstone - BLACKROT?


Doncha just love the spin "Jadoo is a "market-focused company."

WOW!


Karl


Take this and the next one and get it to your LOCAL NEWS PAPERS AND RADIO STATIONS.

[Pallas180]

209. Karl - this & the rest of your info should go to Spitzer in NY -

he's making a name for himself (in the same way Giuliani did, we think
because he wants run for governor) but as long as he's looking for publicity and prosecutions, right now, this info is right up his alley.

None of those corporation CEO's would have been convicted without Elliot Spitzer getting involved.

Have you contacted him or his office? Don't you think he would be
very interested in your information on these companies and their connections to other illicit dealings?


Pallas (soulmaters)

[HootieMcBoob]

215. good idea trying to get Spitzer involved n/t

he's THE person who could get this into the mainstream

[KWBS]

218. Spitzer was not interested

He has his own agenda

[KWBS]

200. MORE KERRY FORUM INFO

TALK ABOUT letting the FOX watch the HENHOUSE.

Criminal conduct in California by the division of ENRON that DID IT, and take one of the execs and have have them ADVISING the PROSECUTION as to what steps to take.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.


John Berger
Managing Partner
Contango Capital Partners


During 2002 and 2003, Mr. Berger served as an advisor to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission where he drafted governance guidelines for the Regional Transmission Organizations and served as an advisor to the drafters of the Standard Market Design regulatory document that is currently before the United States Congress. He also advised the Commission on distributed generation, demand response, information gathering and application issues, investigations, and trade clearing/credit issues in the North American energy markets. Mr. Berger graduated cum laude from Texas A&M University with a B.S. in Civil Engineering. In 2003, he earned an MBA from Harvard Business School where he founded and organized the first annual Harvard Business School Energy Symposium and was a finalist in the 2003 HBS Business Plan Contest.


AND A GOOD AGGIE TOO, WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Karl



THIS DISCREDITS SINCLAIR.

GET CRANKING FOLKS.

[Tapirlover]

203. distraction du jour

We need to keep the heat on and keep firing those silver bullets of TRUTH. You guys need to step away from your tv sets and realise they serve noting more than nesfortainment and the distraction-du-jour today is..."Bill O'Lyley cancelling his book tour" OMG WHAT about Scott Peterson!!!?????
You have to understand that our fourth estate has been taken over by their corporate masters and they serve no one but themselves and the military industrial complex.
I read the news from at least 8 different news sources daily..starting with the far east and stopping at Britain.I have long since stopped reading the papers here..I was sick of the propaganda

[RainDog]

205. You're preaching to the choir

no one I know on this board is fooled by corporate media distraction.

the problem is that when you call your representatives and other's representatives about these issues, you get ignored.

You need to tell the women at PTA meetings to stop watching the crap on tv, not us.

[tlcandie]

207. Agreed Rainman..

VERY few here watch tv news, much less tv anymore at all! IF they do it is only to keep an eye on what they ARE doing while knowing full well it isn't reality.

Most here get their news by reading multiple sources..which is why DU is here...so that all those people and the sources can come together for the truth of the matter.

Aside from that watch FSTV or LINK TV and DemocracyNOW! I can't tell you the last time I watched regular TV!

EDIT: At #207 posts someone may want/need to start a new thread for this with links to here, for those with dialup, etc.!!

:hi:

[KWBS]

210. Well, isn't THIS SPECIAL?

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/101904.html

Talk about some SICK FOLKS

[Bonhomme Richard]

211. I'm not feeling very optimistic about the future.

A contact of mine in DC said about two years ago that the neocons were putting so many of their people in important positions that even if a democrat were elected he wouldn't be able to get anything done.
It's not a pretty picture.

[Bandit]

213. Glad to see this thread is still active

It provides a glimmer of hope in that we are not alone. There appear to be forces on the side of good that are working to bring the truth to the masses. God go with you. Also if you have some bombs to drop better do it now. People are already voting and in record numbers. Don't know if that is good or bad but your revelations need to become public NOW

[alittlelark]

216. kickin'

Wow, needs a new thread.

REALLY needs one.

[Tapirlover]

217. democrats unite

Hey,Karl...I was glad to see you have been posted on Democrats.com as well. Good work
scroll down













Drug Barons are Protected from Liability even for Childhood Vaccines
Cheney and Bush claim that few drug barons make vaccine because of "lawsuit fears." But this is just plain FALSE. They don't make vaccine because they cannot overcharge for vaccine they way they can for other treatments. As to liability, drug barons are even protected from liability for childhood vaccines, which because of the sheer numbers used, incur the highest number of side effect cases. Scroll down to "Vaccine Injury Compensation Program."



A.merican P.ropaganda Insults Black Americans, Tries to Spin Off Kerry's 4-1 Lead over Bush
We are soooooooo sick of A.merican P.ropaganda's phony "political commentary," phony polls, and endless efforts to try to make Bush look good through news suppression, spin, and unquestioning dissemination of lies. As the largest news service, America is trapped by AP. Any Democrat out there in the trenches knows that the groundswell of black voters committed to going to the polls on Nov. 2 and voting AGAINST Bush is historic in proportions. But now, in addition to Repug efforts to block blacks from voting through any manipulation possible, we have A.P. using a fudged poll to try to convince us all that black support for Dems has "eroded" since 2000! That's about as outrageous as trying to convince readers "American Idol" just really wasn't that popular. To think this kind of trickery will somehow influence black voters is demeaning and insulting. But not to worry - A.P. will - among others - be the subject of predicted post-election investigations.



Courageous Journalist Fired for Speaking Out against Sinclair
Boston Globe: "The Washington bureau chief of Sinclair Broadcast Group was fired yesterday after accusing the media company of ''indefensible" conduct for planning to air a movie attacking Senator John F. Kerry's Vietnam record in the coming days. Jon Lieberman, who also was the lead political reporter for the 62-station chain, told CNN last night that he was terminated for his criticism, quoted in yesterday's Baltimore Sun.He spoke out, he said, because ''I feel so strongly that our credibility is at issue here. . . . I feel our company is trying to sway this election." We encourage Leiberman to file a lawsuit against Sinclair - if he won't, we suspect others will as a Class Action Suit. These people don't deserve to be in business! Btw - speaking of Sinclair sleaze, a Sinclair affiliate in Baltimore (FOX 45) was running daily ads for Florida real estate right after the hurricanes hit - misleading ads depicting lots the way they were BEFORE being trashed by the storms.



Conservative Tampa Tribune Refuses to Endorse Bush
St.Petersburg Times: "They talked about it Sunday night over glasses of wine in Hyde Park. They stewed over it Monday morning during tennis matches. They rehashed it over the phone with incredulous friends calling from out-of-state. Did you read the Tampa Tribune? They didn't endorse Bush for president. They didn't endorse anyone!he Tribune's Sunday editorial, in which the editorial board endorsed neither Republican George Bush nor Democrat John Kerry, has caused quite a stir in Tampa and beyond.For decades, the Tribune has been Tampa's conservative torch, endorsing Republicans for president every four years and supporting the party's emphasis on fiscal conservativism, small government and military muscle. But after four years, the editorial went on, Bush disappointed board members with his "mishandling of the war in Iraq, his record deficit spending, his assault on open government and his failed promise to be a "uniter not a divider' within the United States and the world.""



The Outrageous Assaults on Voter Rights in FLA Voters the US Media Isn't Telling You About
The UK Guardian reports how Florida residents are being routinely subjected to election fraud. Gordon Sasser, for example reports receiving an automated voice phone call that "had some surprising news: did he know that he could now cast his presidential vote by phone, and could do so right now, using the keypad?" - thereby tricking him into thinking he was casting a vote. James Scruggs reports how "a young woman who phoned him at home, insistently offering to collect his absentee ballot to ensure its safe delivery. Then there was the elderly woman who called the local elections office last week to register her husband for an absentee vote." Turns out the woman had received a call the night before by someone who had taken her voter registration info and assured her she was now registered and would receive a ballot. Of course, if she hadn't followed up to the real office, no ballot would ever have arrived.



Ralph Nader Descends into Self-Absorbed Paranoia, Obsessed by his Ever-Growing List of 'Enemies'
The Star: "Ralph Nader moved solemnly to the podium and began a well-honed polysyllabic assault on his myriad enemies. For the better part of 20 minutes, the 70-year-old Nader went after the "Democratic prevaricators," who "kneel to their corporate paymasters," Republicans who have "slithered into Congress," the two-party prison in which Americans are trapped, even Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and Australian Prime Minister John Howard. Then he opened the floor to questions and there it was, the question the independent presidential candidate has heard from the day he announced his candidacy last February. "Why won't you withdraw?" In a supreme irony, the once noble Nader has become frighteningly like Dick Cheney - a tired, distorted old man full of spite and paranoia, clinging to power at all costs to humanity and the environment.



Gore Says Bush's Failure in Iraq Goes 'Beyond Incompetence'
Chicago Sun-Times: "Al Gore on Monday accused President Bush of intentionally deceiving the public about the reasons for invading Iraq and said he is so ideologically driven that he refuses to admit -- or even learn from -- his mistakes. ''It is beyond incompetence -- it is recklessness that risks the safety and security of the American people,'' the former vice president said in a speech at Georgetown




Top Bush Fundraiser Goes on Warpath Against Evil Bush
"George Bush is not a Christian, Karl Schwarz tells you. He is a liar, and Christians don't lie. Schwarz is telling this to anyone who might listen, including President Bush, to whom he fired off a smoking email entitled 'An American Demands the Truth From You.' Other listeners are adding up quickly. First he sent to his stockholders--300,000 people or so--a PowerPoint presentation daylighting the greed, deception, and stupefying corruption of the Bush Administration. Lately he is making the rounds of the talk show circuit, and the wild book of outrage will soon be on the streets. It is a formidable read. 810 pages. And a comprehensive title to match: One Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas: A Conservative Republican Speaks Out on September 11, 2001; Afghanistan; Iraq; Bush-Cheney 2004; Imperial Oil 'Strategeries'." Schwarz believes the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq was all about stealing the region's oil.



Michigan's Republican Former Governor William Milliken Endorses Kerry
William Milliken, governor of Michigan from 1969 through 1982, is the iconic moderate Republican in the state. He is the epitome of a decent politician, admired by both Republicans and Democrats. And he's just endorsed John Kerry for president: "I felt so strongly about the direction of this country that in the end, it wasn't a difficult decision to make... This president has pursued policies pandering to the extreme right wing across a wide variety of issues and has exacerbated the polarization and the strident, uncivil tone of much of what passes for political discourse in this country today." Any Republican with a conscience should heed Gov. Milliken's words and follow his example.



GHWB and Barbara Heckled As They Went To Vote
Keith Koski writes, "I happened to be at the polling place where George and Barbara Bush went to place their early vote in Houston, Monday, October 18, 2004. I gave them a piece of my mind and took a video of it for you to see. Its about 30 seconds long. Barbara scowled at me through the smoked glass. It sent shivers down my spine. I stood next to cheering Republicans and held a Kerry Edwards sign. As they shouted 'Four More Years!' I shouted 'Two More Weeks!' One gentleman requested that I 'Back Off!' He was big and burly. I pointed at him and spoke to the camara: 'These people are violent!' 'They want four more Wars!' Many enthusiastic Kerry Supporters chanted 'Kerry!' 'Kerry!' The noise was equally deafening on both sides. George H.W. and Barbara Bush scrapped their plans for a press conference and sped away." Check out the photos and video!



Promising Lives Shattered by Anthrax Vaccine Forced on Soldiers by the Pentagon
The Blue Lemur: "A 2002 study published in Emerging Drugs and Devices found a signficiant statistical relationship existed between anthrax vaccination and arthralgia, arthritis, arthrosis, joint disease, myleitis, vasculitis, Guillaine-Barre syndrome, myalgia, flu syndrome, diarrhea, liver function test abormalities, gastrointestinal disease, weight loss, and nausea." So what was thge Bush administration response? To order its own study with results tailor made for the drug industry: the vaccine was declared safe and Bush ordered the that mandatory vaccination of soldiers continue. Meanwhile, hundreds - possible thousands of soldiers "have sduffered permanent afflictions as a reult of the vaccine. The military continues to assert that it is safe - and has court-martialed those who refuse to take it." Here are the heartbreaking stories of some of the victims.



Sinclair's Washington Bureau Chief Outraged by the Decision to Air the Anti-Kerry Program
Baltimore Sun via Blue Lemur: "The Washington Bureau chief for Maryland-based Sinclair Broadcast Group's news division angrily denounced his employers last night for plans to air an hourlong program that is to include incendiary allegations against Democratic presidential candidate Kohn Kerry for his anti-war actimism three deacdes ago. "IAt's biased political propaganda with clear intentions to sway the election," said Jon Leiberman, Sinclair's lead political reporter for more than ayear. "For me, it's not about right or left - it's about what's right or wrong in news coverage this close to an election." Meanwhile, the cowardly sleazebags that run Sinclair are hiding under their rocks, refusing to answer any questions. Kudos to Jon Leiberman, who represents an endangered species: a mainstream journalist with a conscience!



Economic Gap between Minorities and Whites Widened Under Bush - No Matter How CNN Spins it
We just love the way CNN spins these things - they make Walter Mitty look unimaginative. First they present the inescapable finding: "The enormous wealth gap between white families and blacks and Hispanics grew larger after the most recent recession, a private analysis of government data finds. White households had a median net worth of greater than $88,000 in 2002, 11 times more than Hispanics and more than 14 times that of blacks, ." Now look at this spin job: "Blacks were slowest to emerge from the economic downturn that started in 2000 and ended in late 2001." Note how they try to tweak the start of the downturn into the end of Clinton's administration! And what do they call those million or so jobs lost SINCE 2001? They must be part of that "emerging" thing - As in emerging economic crisis!



Bush was UNFIT FOR SERVICE
Paul Lukasiak writes, "New information with regard to the meaning of a special code which appears on George W. Bush's Air National Guard discharge papers indicates that he was being thrown out of the Air National Guard for failing 'to possess the required military qualifications for his grade or specialty, or does not meet the mental, moral, professional or physical standards of the Air Force.' In other words, despite the fact that Bush had an unfulfilled six year Military Service Obligation, he was discharged from the Air National Guard not because he moved to Boston, but because he failed to meet his obligation to maintain his qualifications as an F102 pilot. " To further this investigation, Democrats.com is offering a $1,000 Reward to anyone who can authoritatively document the meaning of PTI 961 (http://tinyurl.com/4ezsz).



Flu Vaccine by Lottery, Price Gouging, or Rationing isn't a big Deal, Says Bush administration
Last week, several senior citizens in Florida had to be taken to the hospital after passing out from the heat while standing in horrendously long lines hoping to get a flu shot. One senior died. In New Jersey, the state is contemplating having a lottery so everyone at least gets a chance at a shot. Meanwhile, pharmacies are being ripped off by middle men charging as much as 10 times the market value of vaccine. But on Oct. 17, Bush's Health and Human Service Secretary Tommy Thompson said the shortage of vaccine "is not a crisis." Oh, but wait! That's right: the Bush administration adheres to the pharamceutical industry's warped "philosophy": a few thousand dead or injured consumers, a few multi-million-dollar lawsuits for pushing harmful drugs on the public for a few years before they are finally caught - it's all just the "acceptable cost of doing business." AMERICA DESERVES BETTER!



NATIONAL DISGRACE: Millions of Voters May be Wrongly Barred from Voting this Year
One of primary points of Bush's multi-faceted scheme to steal election 2000 by stealing Florida was having brother Jeb and his minions make sure the maximum number of voters were purged from the rolls by fraudulently using "felon laws" as the pretext. Thousands of Floridian voters were illegally barred from voting this way. But they are hardly alone: the Bush crime cartel is exploiting this same weakness in the system ACROSS THE NATION. It is estimated by the ACLU and other groups that MILLIONS of voters will be illegally purged this year. This week, the ACLU and two other groups will be releasing their findings on this national scandal and helping patriotic citizens across the nation learn what they can do to prevent this crime against American democracy.



Cheney Lies about the Vaccine Shortage - and the Media (ever Contemptuous of the Public's Right to Know) Disseminates the Lie
Did ANYONE in the media every take Jounalism 101? If AP's Jennifer Bundy had, it might have occurred to her fact-check the sweeping statement by Dick Cheney that the vaccine shortage is due to "lawsuit worries" by the drug cos. A two-minute google or Altavista search would have revealed that vaccines are one area where drugmakers have few if ANY lawsuit worries: US Code: Title 42.300aa-23 makes sure that liability in cases of vaccine injury or death is limited or nonexistent: See the Cornell Law school file: http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=vaccine liability &url=/uscode/html/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00000300--aa023-.html Bottom line: Dick Cheney is a bald-faced liar, a miserable excuse for a human being who places corporate profits far above human life, health, and welfare.



How You Can Save America: Help Get the Huge Number of New Democrats to the Polls
Massive new Democratic registrations in Ohio and Florida, and in other swing states, have created potentially large voting shifts to the Democrats: But no one knows whether the new voters will turn out at a 30% or a 70% rate. The one certainty is that direct voter contact on Election Day dramatically increases turnout. The second, according Pollster John Zogby, is that if turnout is high, then Democrats will win. So, if you are still trying to figure out how to best help Dems, take a week off (or even just Election Day) and get out the vote. Go to Ohio (think Cleveland) or Florida, New Hampshire, Colorado, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico, Arkansas or Missouri and make sure that on Election Day America's new voters get to the polls. To volunteer in a nearby swing state, go to www.acthere.org



Sinclair Broadcasting Stock Nosedives! Anyone Who Still Has Any Better Dump it Now
Check out this 1-month chart for Sinclair Stock. You will note that since Oct 11, the day the co. formally announced they would be airing a libelous anti-Kerry smear, their stock has continued down, down, down. It is now at its lowest in a year - the first time it has dipped below $7. Meanwhile, the producer of the anti-Kerry show has been hit with a libel suit. The Smith clan that runs this shoddy operation are betraying their stockholders's trust by putting their partisan politics above stockholders' interest. Now everyone is paying. Anybody out there still have Sinclair stock? Better dump it now while you're ahead! To see if you may have the stock in a portfolio, see http://stopsinclair.org/shareholders.php



Colorado May be Kerry Country this November
Boston Globe: "A recent Gallup poll suggests are running dead even in , which offers nine electoral votes (the votes may be divided if Colorado approves a referendum next month to award its electoral votes proportionally). "John Kerry didn't think it was a battleground state. All of a sudden, the lights went on," said Federico Peña, former mayor of Denver.. But now, Bush and Dick Cheney have been forced to come back to Colorado to shore up their base, Peña said. "That is what is driving the Bush campaign crazy. That never was supposed to happen." While the Rocky Mountain News endorsed Bush, their own post-debate reader poll showed Kerry beating Bush by over 50 points - showing the widening gulf between the Bush campaign (including its media minions) and the people.



54,701 U.S. Tech Jobs Lost from July-Sept
Reuters: "The U.S. technology sector suffered another round of widespread layoffs during the third quarter, with computer firms slashing jobs most aggressively, a report said Monday. "High-tech job cuts are on the way up as the end of the year approaches," said John A. Challenger, chief executive officer of Challenger, Gray & Christmas. "Behind this trend is the fact that technology companies have virtually no pricing power."" AND, of course, OUTSOURCING - which this Reuters article quite Bushily "forgets" to mention. Job cuts in technology jumped 60% between July and September to 54,701, compared with 34,213 layoffs in the second quarter. Computer companies alone saw job cuts jump 127 percent, to 30,624.."



Eight Races the Democrats MUST WIN to Free America from Tyranny
Washington Post: "Republican senators retiring in Oklahoma and Colorado and a third battling for her seat in Alaska, Democrats have a chance to pick up three seats on Nov. 2. That would be enough to control the chamber, where there are 51 Republicans, 48 Democrats and one independent who sides with the Democrats. But Democrats still would have to retain three or four of their five threatened seats to prevail. Those are huge ifs. In addition to Daschle's all-out battle, Democrats are trying to hold seats left open by retirements in three states that President Bush is virtually certain to carry -- North Carolina, South Carolina and Louisiana -- and in the toss-up state of Florida. Georgia is considered unwinnable , but Democrats are positioned to grab Illinois's GOP-held seat, so they would offset each other." Let's go out there and make a CLEAN SWEEP! America's freedom from tyranny depends on it!



Petition for an Emergency Presidential Recount Commission
"If recent polls are accurate, America's 2004 Presidential race could be as close as it was in 2000. But in 2000, Americans of all political persuasions learned that our courts - including the U.S. Supreme Court - are too influenced by partisan politics to impartially resolve divisive election disputes. Yet as Election Day nears, both candidates are fielding armies of lawyers to wage legal warfare in those same courts. And dozens of lawsuits have already been filed over pre-election issues like voter registration, provisional ballots, and electronic voting machines. There must be a better way to resolve disputes over the election of the leader of the greatest Democracy in history. We, the People, call for the immediate creation of an Emergency Presidential Recount Commission (Commission) to resolve all disputes related to the election of the President of the United States in 2004 - IF the winner is in serious dispute when the polls close on Election Day." Sign the petition!



Overrule the Pro-Bush Polls - Wear and Show Anti-Bush, Pro-Kerry Items
MikeHersh.com: "Before the debates, the polls showed Kerry 5 points or more behind. After Bush's horrendous debate performances, the polls told us the race was tied. Now they're saying Bush is pulling away. We know this isn't true, because Gallup and other polls over-count Republicans in their surveys. Unless we show our support openly, people will assume the polls are accurate. We have to wear shirts and buttons, show stickers and other emblems of our support for Kerry to make sure people know Kerry is the real choice for most Americans. If we sit back silently, the fake polls will give the Republicans cover to steal our election again. What can you do about it? Become a walking public opinion poll by buying and wearing and showing anti-Bush and pro-Kerry items."



Supreme Court Spanks DeLay, Orders Re-Examination of 'Unprecedented' Right Wing Redistricting Scam
Washington Post: "he Supreme Court today ordered a lower court to reconsider its decision upholding the 2003 Republican-drawn congressional district map for Texas. The high court said the case should be reviewed in light of its opinion last April in a case from Pennsylvania. In that complicated ruling, the court left open the door for court challenges to redistricting based on claims of partisan gerrymandering but offered little new guidance to lower courts on how to consider such claims.... Reversal, analysts believe, is a long shot. It was yet another chapter in a venomous partisan battle involving two unsuccessful walkouts by Texas Democratic lawmakers and an ethics infraction by Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.). In an unprecedented mid-decade redistricting of Texas, Republican lawmakers redrew the map so as to give Republicans a 10- or 11-member edge in the state's 32 member congressional delegation, which is now split evenly." Maybe there's some hope for fairness in Texas?



Supreme Court Clerks Expose Right Wing Partisan Abuse in Bush v. Gore, Right Wingers Launch Witch Hunt
Washington Post: "n the October issue of Vanity Fair magazine, former Supreme Court law clerks from the court's 2000-01 term speak out -- under cover of anonymity -- about what they saw behind the scenes during the fateful case of Bush v. Gore. That case, decided by a 5-4 vote, ended the contentious recount in Florida, thereby giving the presidency to George W. Bush. lerks contend that the decision was a rank exercise in partisanship by conservative Republican justices.... 'We feel that something illegitimate was done with the Court's power, and such an extraordinary situation justifies breaking an obligation we'd otherwise honor,' one clerk told the magazine. Republican senators John Cornyn, Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham have asked Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) for hearings 'to determine whether there has been misconduct.'" Whistle-blowers tell the truth about partisan abuse of the Supreme Court, so right wing Senators launch a witch hunt.



Pay-Per-View Company iN Demand Breaks Contract, Blocks Fahrenheit 9-11 Special - Time for a Boycott
Washington Post: "able pay-per-view company iN Demand has pulled a three-hour election-eve special with filmmaker Michael Moore. 'The Michael Moore Pre-Election Special' was set to include a showing of his box office coup 'Fahrenheit 9/11,' as well as interviews with politically charged celebs, all for the low price of $9.95. A company spokesman told the Associated Press on Friday that the decision is based on 'legitimate business and legal concerns.' But Moore, who inked a contract with iN Demand in early September, said he is contemplating legal action because he feels the company succumbed to pressure from 'top Republican people. You can't tell Americans they can't watch this.' documentary would reach about one-quarter of the nation's homes if aired on iN Demand." Time to boycott iN Demand! Tell your local cable provider you will never use iN Demand - an important cable revenue source - unless they air F911 before Election Day Nov 2. Make sure they pressure iN Demand now.



'Damning with Faint Praise': Putin's Left-handed Comments Not Exactly a Bush Endorsement!
Talk about a left-handed endorsement! First Putin beats Cheney's dead horse - the "terrorists don't want Bush to win" routine: "International terrorism has as its goal to prevent the election of Bush to a second term. If they achieve that goal, then that will give international terrorism a new impulse and extra power." Putin knows this isn't true and knows that the same line spouted by Cheney didn't go over well with Americans. This leaves us to wonder if he was actually trying to UNDERMINE Bush? This possibility is supported by the the Russian despot's refusal to endorse Bush. "We unconditionally respect any choice of the American people," he said. "I don't want to spoil relations with either candidate." Worse yet (for Bush), Putin also noted his continuing disagreement with Bush on Washington's invasion of Iraq, which Russia strongly opposed as a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. "Russia was always against the military operations in Iraq," he said."



State by State Results Show Kerry Leading Bush 53-43% in 13 Swing States
Despite the ongoing assault on America's credibility by corporate media polls designed to keep advertising (the endless Bush infomercial of network news) and campaign dollars pouring in, the state by state figures show a very different story indeed. "A Washington Post poll shows Kerry with a significant lead in important states that could decide the outcome of the election. The poll found Kerry held a 53% to 43% lead among likely voters in 13 such states." In fact, the state by state polls show Kerry with a steadily increasing lead and it is hard to find evidence of any "dead heat", let alone a Bush lead.



MSNBC Online Poll Highlights its Own Poll Fraud
Check out the difference between this online MSNBC poll, which shows Kerry pummeling Bush on every question, and the results the network (owned 80% by Pentagon-pork-recipient GE) obtained using its systematic "numbers fudging" scheme (MSNBC/Newsweek). Of course it's euphemism for "phony poll" is "scientific poll," while its euphemism for "unmanipulated poll" is "unscientific poll." Its scientific poll results are cherry picked and weighted until they can show Bush either ahead or in a dead heat. But c'mon! How can you possibly explain a gap of over 50 points on some questions? Who do they think they're kdding? But not to worry - an after-election investigation is likely to reveal the whole ugly iceberg.



Vietnam Vet Hits Anti-Kerry Film Producer with Libel Suit for Blatantly False Statements
AP: "A Vietnam veteran shown in a documentary criticizing Sen. John Kerry's anti-war activities filed a libel lawsuit against the movie's producer Monday, saying the film falsely calls the veteran a fraud and a liar. Kenneth J. Campbell, now a professor at the University of Delaware, said in the suit that "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal" combines footage of him appearing at a 1971 war protest with narration that claims that many of the supposed veterans who took part in the event were later "discovered as frauds" who "never set foot on the battlefield, or left the comfort of the States, or even served in uniform." The suit said viewers would be left with the perception that Campbell had lied about his military service. Campbell attached copies of his military records to the lawsuit, showing that he received a Purple Heart and eight other medals, ribbons and decorations for his service in Vietnam.



MEDIA FRAUD: Tribune Co. Pushed Bush for FCC Favors, Rigged Figures to Fleece Advertisers
The Tribune Co., the third largest news mogul in the US, which owns the LA Times, Chicago Tribune, Newsday, and other papers, has since 2000 worked hard for G.W. Bush. So sure of the rewards they'd reap by such support, "The Tribune Co. bought Times Mirror with the expectation that the would reject the newspaper-television cross-ownership rule... In fact, the FCC did loosen the rules." (The tug-of-war between the public interest and the FCC goes on, however). The Tribune also got caught inflating circulation figures at Newsday and Spanish language publication Hoy so they could jack up their ad rates( just the tip of an ugly iceberg of similar manipulations in the media, we hear). Looks like the Trib is hoping for a new Bush bail out: the Chicago Tribune has endorsed Bush, while other papers in its chain continue to suppress Kerry and pump Bush.



Bush Not Only Failed Our Troops - He Lied to America About their Plight!
Kerry campaign: "On Dec. 4, 2003, Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez wrote in a letter "to the number two officer in the Army, with copies to other senior officials, that his soldiers still needed protective inserts to upgrade 36,000 sets of body armor, but that their delivery twice had been postponed in the month before he was writing." (Washington Post, 10/17/04) The NEXT DAY, Dec. 5, 2003, Bush told Americans the troops had everything they needed: "Three years ago, our military was not receiving the resources it needed and morale was beginning to suffer. So we increased the defense budgets to prepare for the threats of a new era. And today, no one in the world can question the skill and the strength and the spirit of the United States military." More horrible still, the Bush "campaign machine" has produced phony polls showing that "most" soldiers in Iraq think Bush is handling things just peachy keen - putting an even bigger wedge between our troops and reality.



Kerry Picks Up over 30 Major Newspaper Endorsements - Including MOST Major Papers in Florida!
Editor and Publisher reveals that in terms of readership base, Kerry leads Bush in newspaper endorsements by 8.7-3.3 million. "Among the papers endorsing Kerry The Miami Herald, the St. Petersburg Times, So Florida Sun-Sentinel in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida Today in Melbourne, The Palm Beach Post, the Daytona Beach News-Journal, and the Bradenton Herald. In other battleground states, he picked up the Star-Tribune in Minneapolis and the Duluth News Tribune, the Dayton Daily News and Akron Beacon Journal in Ohio, and the Daily Camera in Boulder, Colo. Kerry also got the nod from...: The New York Times, The Boston Globe, San Jose Mercury-News, San Francisco Chronicle, The Sacramento Bee, The Fresno Bee, and The Modesto Bee; The Kansas City Star, The Roanoke (Va.) Times, the Grand Forks (N.D.) Herald, The Charlotte (N.C.) Observer, the Lexington (Ky.) Herald-Leader, the Mail Tribune in Medford, Ore., and The Press Democrat in Santa Rosa, Calif."



Major Knight-Ridder Investigative Report Reveals that Planning for Iraq Invasion and Aftermath was 'Non-existent'
Editor and Publisher: "Knight Ridder's Washington bureau, which in the past two years has produced a string of important exclusives related to the Iraq war (and prewar), offered evidence today about poor or "non-existent" planning for the U.S. occupation of Iraq, as well as the failure to provide 100,000 more troops military commanders had wanted. The article...was based on official documents and on interviews with more than three dozen current and former military and civilian officials who participated directly in planning for the war and its aftermath. Some senior officials spoke about their concerns for the first time, the story said. The authors quote a veteran State Department officer who was directly involved in Iraq policy saying, "We didn't go in with a plan. We went in with a theory."



NOW/PAC Urges Women to Hit Polls in Record Numbers to Elect John Kerry
Common Dreams: "Sen. John Kerry answered our call last night," said NOW/PAC Chair Kim Gandy. "He made women's issues part of the debate and established his commitment to the fight for equality and justice." Sen. Kerry addressed many issues important to womenâ??he pledged to defend the landmark Roe v. Wade decision in the courts, promote pay equity, expand affordable health care, increase the minimum wage and protect affirmative action. Kerry successfully aligned himself with women by recognizing the detrimental policies imposed by the Bush administration. "NOW/PAC urges its members and supporters to turn out in record numbers on Nov. 2 for John Kerry and all candidates who support women's rights," said Gandy."



Afghan Human Rights Group Says Poll Fraud Investigation is Rigged
BBC: "Afghanistan's leading human rights body has criticised the UN for the way it has set up its investigation panel into the recent presidential election. The country's election management body asked the UN to establish the three-member panel after the crisis provoked by opposition candidates announcing a boycott of Saturday's poll. But the UN has decided not to appoint any Afghans to the panel. That decision raises "a number of concerns" about its independence, according to the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission. The senior spokesman of the AIHRC, Nader Naderi, argues that many of the problems with the election are being blamed on "international staff and organisations", not on Afghans. Yet it is all foreign nationals who will be on the panel. We recommended an Afghan expert from our commission to build confidence in this process," says Mr Naderi, a position also supported by European Union officials in Kabul. But he says this was rejected. "



Kerry Blasts Bush for His Failure to Respond to the Humanitarian Disaster in Dafur
Political Gateway: "John Kerry on Sunday castigated George W. Bush for a "toothless" response to the Darfur crisis, and promised to stop the "genocide" if he was elected president.Kerry called for tough United Nations sanctions against Sudan's government and more US humanitarian aid for the crisis-torn region. "Months ago, I urged the president to call the crisis in Darfur, Sudan, by its rightful name: genocide," the statement said. "The Bush administration finally did so in September, but shamefully it has done nothing effective to halt this genocide. Words without deeds are meaningless especially when people are dying every day. Rarely have the costs of the Bush Administrations inaction and failed leadership been clearer. What has been Bushs response? Toothless US-sponsored UN Security Council resolutions. These empty threats serve mainly to embolden the Khartoum government and underscore the administrations loss of international moral authority."



New York Times Enthusastically Endorses John Kerry
AP: "The New York Times yesterday endorsed John Kerry for president, praising the Democratic candidate for his willingness 'to re-evaluate decisions when conditions change...We have been impressed with Mr Kerry's wide knowledge and clear thinking - something that became more apparent once he was reined in by that two-minute debate light. He is blessedly willing to re-evaluate decisions when conditions change. He strikes us, above all, as a man with a strong moral core.' The Times' backing is one of the most coveted and influential of any endorsement during the US presidential campaign, although given the newspaper's somewhat left-of-centre tendency , not entirely unexpected.'We have been impressed with Mr Kerry's wide knowledge and clear thinking.'. As for Mr Bush, the Times had few kind words in calling for the end of his presidency, which the paper's editors referred to as 'disastrous'. "



Bush Shamelessly Exploits 9/11 to Pander Votes in New Jersey
Nothing like callous fearmongering and emotional exploitation to try to squeeze out votes, eh? Check out these coldly calculating statements from Karl Rove that helped shape the tone of Bush's New Jersey campaign: (AP): "From a lot of places in New Jersey you could see the towers...A lot of people in New Jersey, a lot of communities in New Jersey felt personally the sting of 9/11. I think that has made them more sensitive - as we get close to the end - about the question of who will make America safer." But while invoking the image of the towers, Bush won't be speaking within sight of Manhattan. Why? Because his selected site in Marlton is inside the Philadelphia media market - that way Bush can also scoop up soundbytes for PA, a state he's also trying to squeeze votes. So, play up the pathos and fear, but make sure you get the maximal media bang for your buck.



Dictator Putin Tries to Pump Up Dictator Bush through Fearmongering
Ain't it sad and telling that the ONLY world leaders who support G. W. Bush are dictators? While a recent survey shows that nearly every progressive country wants to see Bush OUT of the White House, China's communist dictatorship, Pakistan's Musharaff, and Vladimir Putin, who is on course to take Russia back to the Soviet dark ages, both enthusiastically support Bush. Birds of a feather... Seeing Bush's lead disappear over the weekend in honest polls, Putin tried to push the same stupid fearmongering line that Cheney used a while back: the terrorists want Kerry to win! "I consider the activities of terrorists in Iraq are not as much aimed at coalition forces but more personally against President Bush," Putin said But Putin's own statement is contradicted by the two recent polls showing that the vast majority of people in PROGRESSIVE, DEMOCRATIC nations ALSO want Bush to get lost!



Zobgy and Reuters Show Bush Lead Has Disappeared
Bloomberg: "Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry moved into a tie with George W. Bush in the latest Reuters/Zogby tracking poll of likely voters. Bush and Kerry, the four-term senator from Massachusetts, each got 45 percent in the survey of 1,211 likely voters taken Friday through yesterday. Seven percent were undecided, and 1 percent said they support independent candidate Ralph Nader. Kerry has gained on Bush in the running Zogby poll in recent days. Bush led Kerry by four points, 48 percent to 44 percent, in tracking polls Oct. 12-14 and Oct. 13-15. The lead narrowed to two points, 46 percent to 44 percent, on Oct. 14-16. The margin of error in each poll is 2.9 percentage points." Corporate media polls show a bogus Bush lead - insiders say this lead is "engineered" to keep the corporate ad dollars coming in - $ which reportedly have increased in exchange for what amounts to a continous Bush infomercial disguised as "news hours."



Panicked Corporate Media Pulls out Poll Fraud Stops
Here's how it works, folks: The corporate media = advertising.. Advertising = corporations. Corporations = Bush supporters. So far, the corporate media has run one long, continuous "infomercial" for G.W. Bush. Insiders say corporate advertising has increased during the election - some say "understandings" between advertisers and the media have been reached: ie, the higher the ad bucks, the more pro-Bush the media. We call it FRAUD. Now the media KNOWS Kerry is pulling ahead - he's picked up dozens of major newspaper endorsements, while non-media polls show the race tied. In desperation, the media's pulling out the poll fraud stops to show a phony Bush lead. Why? To keep those corporate dollars coming in - gotta prove value for money, eh? A push is now being spearheaded to investigate the corporate media's role in this year's election, regardless of the outcome.



In Michigan, Environment a hot topic
" . . . being the green candidate is a tough sell for Bush in Michigan. Environmental groups blame him for stalling plans that sought to protect lakes from mercury, safeguard roadless areas in forests and clean up contaminated lands. Critis say the president has used subtle, behind-the-scenes tactics like administrative rule making to slow cleanups and benefit corporate interests. A Knight-Ridder analysis of pollution during the Bush term suggests backsliding on environmental protections. Of 14 pollution indicators, nine showed a worsening trend during the Bush term, including fewer federal criminal actions against polluters and a 52 percent drop in the Superfund toxic waste cleanups."



Don't let pollsters decide this election
"Pollsters are good at what they do, but do they have the right to stereotype citizens and potentially skew an election with their forecasts? I don't think so. I have had enough of their influence, enough of their political ads that presume that I don't have common sense and will believe everything that is said. What is important to me right now is my right to vote and my vote count . . . the right to matter in this election."






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Electoral College Predictions
Unfutz's Complete List

Site Kerry Bush K-B
EP 264 274 -10
EVP 257 247 +10
MyDD 291 247 +44
R04 284 254 +30
Rasm 194 213 -19
Zogby 278 207 +71
Useless National Tracking Polls
Bush's "Miscalculation"
1101 Soldiers Died for Bush's Lies
0 Funerals Attended by Bush








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In November 2000
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50,999,897 voted for Gore
50,456,002 voted for Bush
Nearly half did not vote,
and more than half who voted
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[RedEagle]

219. Keep working for the vote

Nothing happens if we don't have the vote.

A landslide victory at the top can be given away if control is maintained in both houses of Congress.

Don't be deluded into thinking it all gets better with just a different president.

As already mentioned, it will take several election cycles to return democracy back to the PEOPLE. We're in this for the long haul, not just the current election.

If you haven't already, find an organization and get involved:

www.blackboxvoting.org

www.votewatch.us

www.votersunite.org

www.verifiedvoting.org

And others I don't have in this list.

The LAST thing the powers that be want is for people to get involved in democracy again.

Get involved.

And many thanks to those who are working to restore honest, representative government in this country.

[ret5hd]

220. kick to keep it on the front page

[Bundbuster]

221. Kicking for the Big Picture truth

[BeHereNow]

222. NEW KARL SCHWARZ THREAD HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2512031

Fellow DUers,
I started a new thread for this discussion because
this one is taking SO long to load now-
I am afraid dial ups wont even try now, and this is
too important to exclude members with dial up
difficulty-
My DSL is taking forever, so I can imagine what
our dial up members are going through-
See ya there-
BHN

[juajen]

226. I forgot to give this very deserving thread a

:kick: :kick:

[Desertrose]

228. late night kick! n/t

[jbutsz]

231. Kick-a-roo....n/t

[Pallas180]

232. worth the read

:kick:

[Rockholm]

234. The Thread on the Kerry site is down.