"God hates fags" Roman 9:13

[Hawkeye-X]

As I was reading on another thread, about the lovely Rev. Phelps :puke:

"God hates fags" Romans 9:13

and it reads:

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I'm still trying to figure out what it means. I'm Jewish, and I don't believe in the New Testamanet, but it made me curious.

If I remember my Bible correctly, Jacob and Esau are twin brothers from Isaac.

[gratuitous]

1. It's scriptural abuse

The verse I prefer is from 1 John 4:20 (gratuitous revised memory version): Anyone who says he loves God but hates his brother or sister is a liar. For anyone who says he loves God, whom he has not seen, yet hates his brother or sister, whom he has seen, does not know what he's talking about.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. I don't remember the part where Esau came out......

...perhaps Phelps could tell us the verse that happened in?

[camero]

3. Look at Isaiah

To see how much God hates greedy bastards who do nothing to help the poor and the verses banning usury.

[politicat]

4. This passage has nothing to do with homosexuality...

It's in a discussion on predestination. It's part of the passage that lets Calvinists believe in an elect.

All of the theological writing I see says that it's about grace and the fact that god really doesn't love everyone, and in fact, couldn't give a rat's ass for a large proportion of the population. (Realize, I'm paraphrasing broadly the concept of the elect and grace here... but I'm not Christian, so I can do that. :evilgrin:) A google search on the passage doesn't bring up the remotest connection with homosexuality at all...

Phelps is a nut job. Any other quotes running around out there from him that have scripture in them? It would be interesting to see if he uses something like Leviticus 11:19 or Numbers 15:32.

Pcat

[Endangered Specie]

5. GOD HATES SHRIMP too...

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

[atommom]

6. Don't forget the figs...

http://www.godhatesfigs.com/

[RPM]

7. Ezikiel 23:20 - Revised Standard Edition - A personal Fav

and doted upon her paramours there, whose members were like those of asses, and whose issue was like that of horses.

Was always a favorite citation of mine at bible camp - they had to give me credit for the verse memorized, but they were not fond of it at all...

[bliss_eternal]

14. The thing that's most disturbing to me

is that just about anyone can find rationalization for their hatred in the Bible if they want to. Isn't this what White Supremacists and the KKK do?

How is it that they all seem to miss that the overall theme of Jesus was that of love? Love thy neighbor as thyself... For God so loved the world...

I Corinthians 13:4-8
Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs,....Love never fails.

It's interesting that they can find so many texts that validate their hatred, but just skip over all the ones that teach love.

[Cleita]

8. I remember something about Esau having hairy arms

but that couldn't be it could it?

[Jacobin]

9. Tell me when you get to the part about selling your daughter into

slavery if she talks back to you. Oh, and if you have an unabridged edition, exactly what kind of mushrooms was the guy who wrote Revelations on. I'm looking around for something different this New Years Eve.

[Cleita]

10. LOL!

I think the same thing when I read it.

[NightTrain]

11. As an Atheist, I call it "bullshit."

Now let the flame war begin! :evilgrin:

[ogsball]

12. Oddly enough I think Jacob would have been the gay one

in that story. He liked to do the womanly stuff while his brother went out hunting.

[Bossy Monkey]

13. Well here's the other verse (not that Phelps is worthy of this much

discussion):
Malachi
1
The LORD's Love for Jacob
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Mal'achi.
2 ¶ I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 and I hated Esau, Rom. 9.13

http://www.bartleby.com/108/39/1.html

Because of the creative ways the early Christians cut and pasted from the Jewish scriptures, it would be interesting to know if Malachi looks like this there.

I have no intelligent interpretation of the verse, either here or in the New Testament, but share the bewilderment (disgust, etc) of others on the thread as to Phelps' attempt to apply it to gays.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Fred Phelps is the Ann Coulter of the religious right

and, to paraphrase Bill Maher, sometimes "he just makes shit up."

[Lindacooks]

16. Here's two of my favorites

That verse has absolutely nothing to do with gay people. It's extolling Jacob, the ancestor of the Jews, and condemning Esau, the ancestor of tribes that became enemies of the Jews. The writer is doing the old "God is on our side" shtick.

I always like to ask, "Where does the Bible condemn a loving homosexual relationship between consenting adults?" There are almost no comebacks to that question, especially for lesbians.

"And the Lord said to me: The prophets are prophesying lies in my name; I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds."
Jeremiah 14:14

"For why should my liberty be subject to the judgment of someone else's conscience?"
1 Corinthians 10:29