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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:42 PM
Original message
My husband's friend sent this stink bomb to us
He and his wife are very nice people, but he thinks he can sway my husband with this simplistic crap. I want to send him back a "serious" email starting something like "Thanks for asking me to help you with this admittedly confusing political "stuff". I'll be happy to address each issue, one at a time so it'll be clear . . . etc.

I don't have alot of time between volunteering and being a mom with a home business, can anyone who knows any of these issues boil it down in as sentence or two?


The spewage is as follows:

This was passed on to me, but I can't understand it. Maybe you can,
I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my
head so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe. Lemme see; have I got this straight?

> > > > >Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
> > > > >Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
> > > > >Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
> > > > >Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian
> terrorists-
> > > > >good...
> > > > >Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
> > > > >Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
> > > > >Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
> > > > >No WMD found Iraq - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
> > > > >Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
> > > > >World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
> > > > >Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
> > > > >Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
> > > > >Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
> > > > >Saddam turned over for trial - bad...
> > > > >
> > > > >Ahh, it's so confusing!
> > > > >
> > > > >Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average
tax
> > > > >burden
> > > > >on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day." This is
the
> > >day
> > > > >after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government.
This
> > >year,
> > > > >tax
> > > > >freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since
> 1991.
> > > > >It's
> > > > >latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice
anything
> > > > >special
> > > > >about those dates?
> > > > >
> > > > >Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans
are
> > > > >actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He
gave
> > > > >no explanation and provided no data for this claim.
> > > > >
> > > > >Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are
wealthy
> > >men.
> > > > >Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions,
> > > > >all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is
> an
> > >old
> > > > >barn
> > > > >brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).
> > > > >
> > > > >Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does
that
> > > > >sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has
> > >figured
> > > > >out
> > > > >a way to avoid paying his own.
> > > > >
> > > > >Pass this on. Only 42 days until the election
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. As I said the last 9700 times this was posted...
Clinton's running for president again? Who knew! Alert the media!!!

Many of the other points have been debunked on snopes.com
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. I simply say, "Thanks. I'm voting for Kerry."
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nostalgicaboutmyfutr Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. search it...it has been answered before...
or grab the first line and paste into a google search....BTW notice it is bashing clinton...kind of old...
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Clinton bashing never gets old for them.........
it's their old standby.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is full of lies - check Snopes,com for truth
:-)
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. See post #40 in this thread
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. From that post (brilliant!)
Don't think there is a double standard?
Lemme see, have we got this straight?

Bush lies about reasons for war - good
Clinton lies about an affair with an adult woman - bad

Bush loses two and a half million jobs - good
Clinton gains 22 million jobs - bad

Bush creates $500 billion budget deficit, largest in history - good
Clinton creates $300 billion budget surplus, largest in history - bad

Bush's vice president holds secret meetings on energy policy - good
Clinton's wife holds secret meetings on health care - bad

Bush sits on his ass in a classroom in Florida while airplanes fly into the World Trade Center - good
Clinton stops al-Qaeda's planned December 31, 1999, attacks - bad

Bush loses election, is installed by Nixon, Reagan and Bush 41 appointees to the US Supreme Court - good
Clinton wins sixth and seventh largest popular votes in history - bad

Bush suffers World Trade Center attack on his watch, three WTC buildings reduced to rubble, perpetrators still at large - good
Clinton suffers WTC attack on his watch, WTC remains standing, all perpetrators sentenced to life in prison and currently serving time in federal penitentiary - bad

Bush conducts over a year of combat operations against Iraq, loses 900 troops, insurgents still active - good
Clinton fires cruise missiles at Iraq, loses no troops, Saddam Hussein straightens out his act - bad

Bush most hated US leader in history overseas - good
Clinton most loved US leader in history overseas - bad

Ah, it's so confusing!


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Devil Dog Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Good reply!
eom
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. are you sure they're nice people?
doesn't sound like it.
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KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Even if they are nice
I wouldn't want to have friends so clearly dishonest and stupid as to spread this garbage around. Truly pathetic.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Only 42 days until the election"
Yes, don't forget to go to the polls on Nov. 29th!
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's the link for the "homes" crap
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. that's easy -
When we went into Serbia it was because of a humanitarian crisis and with the backing of the world community. When we went into Iraq it was unilaterally, because of oil, for made up reasons about Weapons of Mass Destruction, and spun to be for humanitarian reasons after the fact, when in fact we have killed three times more Iraqi civilians in the last year than Saddam Hussein did during his entire reign.

George Bush is a war criminal, a liar and a blithering idiot.

Here are some more:

Bill Clinton - attends state dinner.
George Bush - chokes half to death on a pretzel

Bill Clinton - rides Air Force One
George Bush - couldn't ride a stationary tricyle without falling off

Have at it.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hey, Sugar, don't let the snide remarks bother you, they mean well!

We're just all strung out from news overload.

In case you have any doubts as to what everyone is saying ;-)

The post is not new to us and you can get "answers" to most of it at

http://www.snopes.com

Not sure anyone said it, but these things are VERY annoying when they're addressed to you personally from a friend or family member.

We need to bring the right wingers home from the Dark Side.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. Send them back this:
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thanks for the links and tips - found this
1. Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
...because they were already there, having won a bid on a LOGCAP contract in 1992 and started work in the Balkans and his temporary contract award just allowed them to finish what they had started.

2. Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

...because of the impropriety of awarding a lucrative contract under conditions in which a clear conflict of interest could be said to exist, and then lying about the VP's role in the decision in an effort to distance the administration from the charge.

3. Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...

...for a total cost of roughly $90 billion, 79 day air war, minimal loss of American life, ending a decade of ethnic cleansing in a multi-lateral effort of NATO.

4. Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

...because close to $125 billion has already been approved, with $25 billion more being submitted to Congress, coupled with a long-term occupation that could reach as high as $1.5 trillion over the next 5 years. This doesn't take into account the severe depletion of military equipment and manpower and the costs that will be necessary to re-supply both nor the impact on overall American security abroad and readiness to deploy.

5. Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...

...because actually NATO imposed it.

6. Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

...because it came at a time when America should have stayed focused on its already-begun war in Afghanistan and the efforts to eliminate al-Qaeda in that region. Our lack of attention has allowed the network to rebuild to unprecedented levels, resulting in a steep increase in worldwide terrorist attacks.

7. Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good...

...because one's religion still doesn't give one the right to commit genocide.

8. Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

...because we were still involved in a war in Afghanistan which we had not finished, not to mention ignoring the worst humanitarian crisis in the world happening in Sudan.

9. Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good....

...because NATO discovered it was being used to help Milosevic's forces with communications.

10. Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad....

...because it has only been a half-hearted effort and not at all effective in stopping terrorists.

11. Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...

...because the "felony" in question was lying about something which was no one's business in the first place.

12. Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

...because he used American forces as stage-props for a political photo opportunity and declared an end to combat operations even as American deaths continued to mount.

13.Clinton says mass graves in Serbia - good...

...because he was right and new mass graves are being discovered almost daily near Belgrade and Petrovo Selo.

14. Entire world says WMD in Iraq - bad...

...because weapons inspectors weren't allowed to complete inspections nor given cooperation by America with whatever alleged intelligence was to be had.

15. Stock market cras hes in 2000 under Clinton - good...

...because it ended an artificial inflation based on tech promises that were too speculative. Thankfully, the overall growth of the Clinton economy saved us from Depression.

16. Recession under Bush - bad...

...because his only solution has been voodoo economics, a tried and failed approach.

17. Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...

...because the US doesn't enter negotiations with self-appointed third parties who are only looking to profit, such as what happened between the US and Sudan, not to mention the fact that Sudan couldn't have delivered anyway.

18. World Trade Center falls under Bush - Bad...

...because he spent the year preceding the attack ignoring distinct warning signs such as intelligence that bin Laden was contemplating using aircraft as weapons, not to mention a total lack of interest in counter-terrorism in not meeting with his own counter-terrorism official.

19. Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...

...because it was a call for the Iraqi people to take responsibility for their country and for the international community to lend a hand in whatever way they could.

20. Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

...because it was the wrong time and method for doing so. America was still involved in Afghanistan and the focus should have been on the terrorist threat, which even the Bush administration said Iraq didn't pose...before 9/11.

21. Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...

...because Clinton worked through diplomacy and calls for international pressure on Afghanistan's Taliban.

22. Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

...because it's the same as the reason above. He didn't do it enough or properly.

23. No mass graves found in Serbia - good...

...because there have been mass graves found in Serbia. See above.

24. No WMD found Iraq - bad...

...because that was the entire premise for going to war in the first place and now that it is blown, the administration is backpeddaling and pushing the humanitarian angle.

25. Milosevic not yet convicted - good...

...because his case is still working through a legitimate legal system.

26. Saddam in custody - bad...

...because there is little chance he will stand a fair trial according to our own touted legal standards.

27. Ah, it's so confusing!

Made even moreso by the disingenuous usage of good and bad when describing these events.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is how I would answer it
I am sorry, but because you have insisted upon sending me this right wing propogadistic hyperbole, I can no longer consider you a friend. Consider this the end of my firendship with you. Never ever call or write to me again.
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. I have an in-law who does much the same thing.
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 01:35 PM by phylny
He keeps sending me crap, I keep telling him to stop. I finally answered with this last week. In fact, I clicked "send all" to all of his Repub friends, too:

Since I keep getting this stuff even though I'm not interested, I'll respond, adding my two cents and then I'll bow out gracefully.

I'm voting for John Kerry and John Edwards. If you can stomach reading further after seeing that statement, go ahead. If not, don't.

I'm deeply disturbed by the state of our country. Yes, September 11th was a horrible day for all of us, and yes it did affect our economy, our jobs, and our lives.

After enjoying nationwide, and worldwide support after we were attacked, President Bush squandered it. After that day, and in the ensuing months, he foolishly cut taxes during wartime, ran head first into a war that wasn't necessary or even justified with absolutely no plan for what we were going to do with the country after we bombed them, and created different reasons for our involvement when his previous reason wasn't sound. What has he honestly done for us in the past 3 years? Don't talk about Clinton, don't talk about Kerry, don't quote Rush or Hannity and Colmes - but focus your attention on Bush.

We had a wonderful surplus. It's *gone*. We had and have terrific armed forces, the best in the world. They're being slaughtered every day in Iraq while American companies make money, and Iraqis - mothers, children, innocent people - are still being killed. We had the respect of most of the countries of the free world. Now they are at various stages of despising us. Our unemployment was low. Now I have three family members and two friends who are jobless - people who are educated, people who want to work hard. They have no jobs, and two of them have had to sell their homes.

Is this all Bush's fault? No. However, I can't really look at anything he's done in office and say it's a job well done. I just can't. And I feel, truly feel, that he and his administration are lying to us, and have been lying. Yes, I understand that there are things that for the sake of national security we cannot know. However, his inability to be honest with us goes much further than national security. I believe that if we knew the truth, we as a country would have taken a different path in so many ways.

Is Kerry a saint? No way. Is he flawed? Yes, absolutely. But I think he'll bring more integrity, more intelligence, and more thoughtfulness to the White House than we have today.

I know many people will vote for Bush because they despise the idea of voting for a Democrat - any Democrat. I wish I could say that I respect that, but I don't. Put the labels aside and look at the options with an open mind. Typical Republican values call for less government, not more, call for fiscal responsibility, and for honesty and integrity in office. If you think you've gotten that with Bush, then vote for him. Sure, many of you won't have to pay down the deficit, but your kids and grandkids will. Perhaps you or I will be part of the first generation to leave the country in worse shape for our kids than ever before in history. But, as I said, if you like what you see, then vote for Bush.

If, however, you look around you and see what I see, perhaps you'll vote differently.



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