I'm mad as hell and I'm not taking this shit ANYMORE!!! Red Staters!

[BamaGirl]

I live in a very red part of Alabama. I drop my girls off and pick them up from school every day. Today, my oldest, 8yo, told me that in their mock election next week she is voting for Bush!! Because her teacher told her John Kerry won't pay the military (we're military), and John Kerry believes in killing unborn babies!! Why the hell is someone discussing abortion WITH MY EIGHT YEAR OLD!? He told HIS CLASS that Faux News is fair and balanced, and told me studies have proven that!! OMG, someone please direct me to that particular piece of bs! Needless to say, I gave the man a piece of mind. He still doesn't understand what he did wrong. Um, endorsing, anyone, in particular Bush, using half truths and lies is not fucking appropriate!! I'm having to try to explain complex political issues with my 8yo kid. She's smart, but she isn't this smart. The man had the gall to tell my kid (and me) that George Bush is Christian, and told my kid that he believes Iraq has wmd's. When I told him, as a Christian, I find that insulting he pretty much blew me off. He just did not understand why a professed Christian would support John Kerry or what he believes.

I am still so pissed off I'm shaking. I went and got a sign yesterday and taped in my front window, because I don't want someone stealing it. Fuck that. It's down by the street now. If it wasn't raining I would put my dog on a chain out in the front yard. He tries to take the head off of anyone who comes into the yard. :evilgrin: I'm going to write a ltte and I've gotten involved with the local party committee. I am so sick and damned tired of these assholes hijacking my democracy and my religion. This incident has pretty much decided me on converting too. I can no longer even attempt to hang on the SBC. It is not the church I grew up in. Hate mongering and misinformation is not the way the church raised us. I don't understand what the hell has happened to these people.

Lori

[MsTryska]

1. i've got a study you can give him

that will show him what an idiot he really is.


since he brought up studies and stuff.


let me know if you want it, and i'll find the link for ya.

[BamaGirl]

15. Do you have a link for this Faux News crap?

I have a link for an abortion response. Although, when I told him abortions are actually UP since Bush took office, he didn't believe me. I doubt it will do any good, but I can use it in the ltte.

Thanks!

[Beaverhausen]

19. lots here at Fair.org's website

http://www.fair.org/media-outlets/newscorp-fox.html

[BamaGirl]

27. Thanks! nt

[eridani]

51. An abortion flier--

--below, from the article posted here in several places. In 10 point Arial fits on to an 8 1/2 by 11 sheet. I bolded and used 11 point in the 4th paragraph for emphasis. Title 12 point Arial Black.

MORE ABORTIONS UNDER BUSH ADMINISTRATION

Abortion was decreasing. When President Bush took office, the nation's abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4-percent decline during the 1990s. This was a steady decrease averaging 1.7 percent per year. (The data come from Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life, using the Guttmacher Institute's studies.)

Enter George W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. Instead, the opposite happened.

We found four states that have posted three-year statistics: Kentucky's increased by 3.2 percent from 2000 to 2003. Michigan's increased by 11.3 percent from 2000 to 2003. Pennsylvania's increased by 1.9 percent from 1999 to 2002. Colorado's rates skyrocketed 111 percent. We found 12 additional states that reported statistics for 2001 and 2002. Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6-percent average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3-percent average decrease).

Under Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion rates appears to have reversed. Given the trends of the 1990s, 52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in 2002 than would have been expected before this change of direction.

For anyone familiar with why most women have abortions, this should be no surprise:

• Two-thirds of women who have abortions cite "inability to afford a child" as their primary reason (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life). In the Bush presidency, unemployment rates increased half again. Not since Herbert Hoover had there been a net loss of jobs during a presidency until the current administration. Average real incomes decreased, and for seven years the minimum wage has not been raised to match inflation. With less income, many prospective mothers fear another mouth to feed.

• Half of all women who abort say they do not have a reliable mate (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life). And men who are jobless usually do not marry. In the 16 states, there were 16,392 fewer marriages than the year before, and 7,869 more abortions. As male unemployment increases, marriages fall and abortion rises.

• Women worry about health care for themselves and their children. Since 5.2 million more people have no health insurance now than before this presidency - with women of childbearing age overrepresented in those 5.2 million - abortion increases.

What does this tell us? Economic policy and abortion are not separate issues; they form one moral imperative. Rhetoric is hollow, mere tinkling brass, without health care, health insurance, jobs, child care and a living wage. Pro-life in deed, not merely in word, means we need a president who will do something about jobs and health insurance and support for prospective mothers.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/9910550.htm

[MsTryska]

100. here's a link to a study on Fox-Watchers

from the University of Maryland. heh. it makes quite a few arguments of his moot.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:y3mBJCObArYJ:www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf+University+of+Maryland+study+Fox+News&hl=en


pages 14 and 15, get right to the heart of the matter.

[jean]

2. Abortion should be covered in a health class, discussing human sexuality

Not in a mock election discussion. I would guess your red part of Alabama is very conservative in discussing anything sexual in the classroom - much less with 8 yr olds.

In my kids classes (in MN) there's always been a permission slip involved before they broach sexuality topics. (to allow parents to pull their kids out during that time) I think the earliest they bring the topic up is 5th grade up here.

I wouldn't waste a second of my time enlightening the teacher. Nail him instead.

Find out what grade your district starts human sexuality topics/classes (health classes?) and if parents give their permission via a written permission slip for their child to participate in such discussions. There is no way 8 yr old little kids should have to hear this without their parents knowing beforehand and giving their permission.

Then go to the school board and the principal and raise holy hell.

[MadHound]

4. In addition, get a good lawyer in your back pocket

Nothing terrifies these neo-con "educators" more than the threat of a lawsuit:evilgrin:

[faithnotgreed]

8. i would second this. when youve calmed down a little (ha!) then

you should discuss your very appropriate concerns with the principal and contact the school board as well. it would be great if someone on the board is rational that you could contact

do you know of any neighbors or other parents who might feel as you do? power in numbers if you can....

good luck! im so thankful i live in an area that i can worship with people who feel as i do.
who would Jesus torture?

[DemBones DemBones]

54. Absolutely! Find out at what level the state's standards

for schools consider it acceptable and appropriate to discuss abortion with children.

Do NOT let them give you any crap about children hearing it on television, anyway, either!

[jean]

75. hopefully those little kids aren't subjected to the abortion-mobiles

we hear of, driving around with full blown pix of aborted fetuses.

[DemBones DemBones]

88. I'm pro-life but hate that tactic because it exposes children to

knowledge they don't need yet.

[skylarmae]

3. file legit complaint to the school board ...

It has to come from the top. The very thought you had to explain the error to the teacher is tooooooo much! What kind of teachers are in Alabama. Contact your rep in congress and the senate. Let them know what is happening there in your district. Contact the media as well in your town and local vicinities. If we don't stand up to this, God only knows what other kinds of bull they are feeding our children.

[NC_Nurse]

5. This guy is WAY out of line!

You need to report him to the principal and the school board.

Something is wrong with a guy who talks to 8 year olds about abortion...and religion proselytizing in a public school can't be right either.

Geez, what a freak! :scared:

[Anakin Skywalker]

24. Inconsistencies of the Right

You cannot talk about abortion without first talking about sex. And everybody knows that these fundies absolutely refuse to allow sex ed. in school. But springing abortion on little kids is OK, apparently. Strange line of reasoning there, wingnuts!

[crispini]

6. YOU GO GIRL!

Rock and roll. Take it to the principal. This is AMAZINGLY INAPPROPRIATE.

[CrispyQ]

16. Ditto!

What an ignorant jerk. Don't let him get away with this.

[cyr330]

7. I used to be a teacher

And let me tell you, that kind of talk is NOT acceptable in school-- either at the elementary level OR at the high school level. You need to march down there and make the BIGGEST stink in the world. I would even go so far as to suggest you insist that that fascist lose his job over this.

[DebJ]

9. If he's such a Christian (United Methodist) why is a United Methodist

bishop asking him and Cheney to repent publicly and stop taking actions that are against the teachings of his church and Christ?

Was posted this morning on DU

Petition is at onlinepetitions.com I think it said.

[intheflow]

104. Both Bush and Chaney refused to meet with Methodist leadership

leading up to the war. But even Daddy Bush met with his Bishop before the 1st Gulf War; he rejected what he said, but at least he met with him. Baby Bush doesn't even give him church leaders that courtesy.

But who are we kidding? Bush isn't Methodist--he doesn't even attend church. Bush is some kind of freaky Bible-belt born-again holier-than-thou bullshit two-face. That's not an officially recognized religion in US.

[johnnie]

10. This shit is out of hand

My buddy's daughter said that she is voting for bush because if Kerry gets in gay people will be allowed to get married. He takes it lightly, but I was blown away. She learns this stuff at school she says. He says he is proud of her because she is sticking to her guns, I just shook my head.
If it was my child I would be steaming.

[Neecy]

11. I'd be FURIOUS

Isn't it a sin to LIE? Telling a group of 8 year olds that mean ol' John Kerry is gonna take away Daddy's pay is bad enough, but to lecture them on abortion is so beyond what's appropriate.

Complaining to your school board might be pointless, since the Christian wingnuts have packed the boards all over the country, and not just in the south. How sad that parents have to protect their children from lies told by supposedly religious people. What a commentary.

[TaleWgnDg]

12. uummmmmm . . . my take on this is that you may want to call

your State's local chapter of the ACLU. Seriously. To inquire of them about your rights in a public school setting including your options of hiring a private attorney.

For starters, try here: http://archive.aclu.org/community/alabama/al.html

Before calling them, take some time and write down a list of sorts about things that have happened, events, names, dates, etc. . . . impact to your child and you.


edited to add: and welcome to DU . .

[BamaGirl]

13. Y'all just don't know the half of it

I'm going to the super's office, but I guarantee you no one will do a thing. I always laugh when I hear people complain there is not religion in public school. They need to move here. Every year I pull my kids out around Christmas and Easter because someone comes in from one of the Baptist churches to give a talk about the holidays. I fight them every year about it. There's also daily prayer in this place. Believe me they do not care. I've been threatening to sue them for years. This may be the year I actually do it.

Lori

[jean]

18. forgive me for reposting this - I edited my post and it took forever

(this is #2 above - but I had to reorganize my kneejerk reaction)

Abortion should be covered in a health class, discussing human sexuality

Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 04:42 PM by jean
Not in a mock election discussion. I would guess your red part of Alabama is very conservative in discussing anything sexual in the classroom - much less with 8 yr olds.

In my kids classes (in MN) there's always been a permission slip involved before they broach sexuality topics. (to allow parents to pull their kids out during that time) I think the earliest they bring the topic up is 5th grade up here.

I wouldn't waste a second of my time enlightening the teacher. Nail him instead.

Find out what grade your district starts human sexuality topics/classes (health classes?) and if parents give their permission via a written permission slip for their child to participate in such discussions. There is no way 8 yr old little kids should have to hear this without their parents knowing beforehand and giving their permission.

Then go to the school board and the principal and raise holy hell.

[BamaGirl]

23. I've been pretty angry at teachers before

But this is the first time I have EVER wanted to hit one lol! About the abortion thing, he said they were discussing being informed about elections (from Faux News!?)and he said he was voting for Bush (great Christian that he is :mad:). He said he explained what abortion is because the class asked him, and asked me should he not have answered? What should he have said? I was just floored! You tell them to ask their parents you idiot!! Sex is a definite no no here. Unless of course it's scaring kids.

[DemBones DemBones]

57. Dear God, he IS an idiot! You do not tell children that age

about sexual matters. What would he have done if they'd asked him what homosexuality is or what the difference is between heterosexuals and homosexuals, given them a little talk on different sexual practices? Be sure to ask THAT question when you talk to the principal/ superintendent/ newspapers, etc.

What would he have done if a kid asked about sex toys -- had a little show & tell?

I am so steamed! :grr:

Edit: I should add I mean that parents are the ones to tell kids these things and teachers should tell them to ask their parents, just as you said. Parents give age-appropriate responses, which at that age would depend on what you'd already yold your child about sex.

In my case, I can remember explaining that some men fall in love with other men and some women fall in love with other women but not mentioning sex at all. At that age, they don't usually comprehend that sex is a part of marriage except for making babies. (Which is probably OK since you don't want them spying on you!)

[PassingFair]

48. Try contacting ...

... the Freedom From Religion Foundation in Wisconsin. They will help you out if you let them. They took on Roy Moore :

P.O. Box 750
Madison Wisconsin 53701

[e-mail]

www.ffrf.org

Good Luck!

[sandnsea]

82. yes do this

You need someone to help. Obviously this is wrong politically, but I wouldn't want any teacher telling my 8 year old about abortion either. No matter what they said.

On a side note, the history teacher that tried to teach my 8th grader that abortion was the same as Romans leaving babies to die in the cold, convinced my kid that right wingers are lunatics. He's now voting for Kerry. So there's always that possibility too!

Please keep us informed. We've got to stop this insanity.

[childslibrarian]

14. I am a teacher. Call the superintendent. Follow up

with a written letter detailing your conversation. CC a copy to school board members. Principal is not high enough.
This behavior by a teacher is inappropriate, especially with an 8 year old.

[Beaverhausen]

17. Would Jesus bomb thousands of innocent people?

I just don't get how anyone calls him a "Christian"

[leetrisck]

20. Sounds as if you might be around Ft. Rucker

area - believe I've heard words similar to those before in that part of the country.

[BamaGirl]

25. Dothan...close enough

you could slap our school down on post and not notice a difference. That is if Rummy was going to let us keep ours schools.

[Zorbet55]

105. I feel for you. I know that area. Oh, I feel for you.

I hope they are not in private school there. That's Nazi prep.

[Philosophy]

83. Hi neighbor

I live in Enterprise. Probably nothing you can do about it - public school administrators don't care about laws around here. In most of them they even still openly teach creationism.

[BamaGirl]

85. Yeah

They are very scary people.

Enterprise, huh? Look for a pro Kerry ltte in the Ledger soon. I don't know when it will be published but I spoke to someone tonight who is getting printed. She said when they called her they told her it was the only pro Kerry letter they had received.

[Jacobin]

21. I hear you. I live in deepest darkest Red State territory

Just got back from the grocery store and parked next to a car with a bumper sticker saying:

EVOLUTION IS SCIENCE FICTION

JESUS SAVES

One of those Jesus fish thingies.

No Bush/Cheney sticker, as I suppose that would be superfluous.

The teacher was WAAAAAAY out of line. My 16 year old goes to a catholic high school, so I can't complain when he gets loaded up with all the anti-kerry, anti choice bullshit, but he has applied to a secular boarding school for next year and can't wait to get out of BushLand.

To think that someone as that teacher is soooo deluded and is a TEACHER in a SCHOOL is a very very very frightening thought.

Its getting worse and worse in the red states. I don't know how much longer I can live here. I really really don't

[BamaGirl]

29. Yes, and it is literally making me ill today

I've lived outside of the South, and I hated it. I was completely miserable. I'm Southern, but I am just starting to not recognize the place anymore. I'm tempted to leave, but I'm not going to. I'm going to fight these fuckers till the day I die. They pushed me too far today.

[Jacobin]

36. I love (parts of) the South, too

I've traveled a lot and there are beautiful and interesting places all around the country. But I've lived here all my life (except for college in the east) and its hard to make the change.

[BamaGirl]

62. I feel somewhat better about this Southern thing now.

I went to an executive meeting tonight for the county Dem party, and got to vent afterwards lol. I'm the Secretary for our club, but most of the other members are quite a few years older than me. I was really getting worried about that but one of the women I was talking to said several young women have stopped by the office the last two weeks. So I really am not alone. Hopefully, we will be able to get them involved. Also, we have till Friday to register to vote in Bama (so if anyone knows someone who needs to register get them moving!), but the office dropped off about 40 registration forms today. If you knew the area, you'd realize that's pretty impressive lol.

I am fully engaged now, where I was reluctant to really get involved before. I am thoroughly sick of these right wing idiots.

[steve2470]

65. I love the South also....

thank God Orlando is half red and half blue. Sometimes it feels very red but I know us bluies are here ! :-)

[txindy]

22. I'd report the teacher, too, especially because he sounds fanatical

enough to start bringing in pictures to show the class. If he's talking about these subjects with 8 yr. old children, he's a very twisted man, but he also knows the power that visuals have on them at that age. Stop him now. Go over his head and keep going higher and higher until action is taken. Get his superiors to warn him off first and then work on getting him out of there.

The very best of luck.

[BamaGirl]

63. They would have to arrest me

and hospitilize him in this case. I have a list of people I'll be talking to tomorrow.

[mbee]

26. Ask him do christians believe in election fraud, killing

thousands of innocent people to capture one man, regulate energy markets and over-charge millions of people on their fuel and electric bills, outsource the jobs of it's citizens, accept contributions from companies that do insider trading and bankrupt the savings of their stockholders, sell drugs to the most frail among us for amounts so high they have to choose between food and medicine, send our precious youth to be killed in an illigitimate war while their own children are safe at home? Also, I don't have the exact numbers, but I heard a report on C-Span within the last two weeks where someone stated there were more abortions under Bush than under Clinton.

[maxsolomon]

28. get out now

america will be disintegrating into 3 countries & i wouldn't want to be in the red country when its over.

[lawladyprof]

32. Teachers are not allowed

tp bring their partisan political beliefs in the classroom. I would also contact the Alabbama Education Association (NEA affiliate) and state department of education, including but not limited to, whoever handles its Code of Ethics. You may be able to make a complaint and have the state DOE take action against his/her certificate.

[aquart]

73. We ARE NOT disintegrating.

We are one nation with many varied viewpoints. This struggle has been here from the first.

Disintegrating. What a gutless, troll-like, spineless, cowardly thing to say.

[greekspeak]

30. Can I ask why in HELL you are still a member of that denomenation?

There is no Christianity left in it. It is so busy hating and praying on street corners and pontificating that it has forgotten it is a religion.

[BamaGirl]

66. It definitely does not appear to be my church anymore.

I did speak to several people tonight about this and got the list of the local "liberal" churches. One is a Baptist church and sounds to be the only inter-racial church in town too (added bonus in my book). The other two mentioned were the Episcopal Church, and oddly enough, the Catholic Church. We'll check out the Baptist church this weekend, and go from there if necessary.

[southlandshari]

81. You might try Evergreen Presbyterian as well

I believe it is the local PCUSA congregation in Dothan. I recently switched from the denomination in which I was raised (and for which I worked on four different continents during the past two decades) to the Presbyterian Church (USA), and have never been happier in a congregation.

I know congregations differ greatly from location to location, even if they are members of the same denomination. But for what it is worth, here are a couple of interesting links on your local PCUSA church:

Evergreen Presbyterian website:

http://www.evergreenpres.net/

Recent (July 2004) article from "Presbyterians Today" magazine about a young woman who was raised in the Evergreen Presbyterian congregation and who has gone on to explore issues of peace and justice (including issues involving human sexuality):

http://www.pcusa.org/today/cover/2004/june04/cover2.htm

Note on link above - look for the third story down on the page, title is "Emily Rose Martin — Unexpected calling"


Let me know if you give this church a try and how it goes!

[DemBones DemBones]

90. Baptists make good Catholics -- I've seen a lot of converts.

I was raised Presbyterian but went to Baptist Sunday School fairly often growing up, became a Catholic as an adult. Former Baptists in my parish have told me that they were treated 100% better at the Catholic church when they told people they were divorced than they had been at the Baptist church where they and their husbands had been members for years, despite our church "not allowing divorce." (What is actually disallowed is remarriage after divorce, unless the previous marriage can legitimately be annulled by the Church.)

So don't be afraid to check out the Catholic church if you don't like the integrated Baptist church. We have social teachings you'll probably agree with and a lot of tenets that aren't unfamiliar to Protestant belief. We even sing "Amazing Grace" now, just don't hold your breath to hear "Whispering Hope"! ;-)

I have to say that I have seen less back-biting and gossip among Catholics than I did among Protestants. Catholics don't keep track of who's in church on Sunday -- with five Mass times in our parish, a person would have to spend all day in church to do it, anyway -- and you can be involved or uninvolved in activities in the parish.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. I don't blame you for being furious

and you can't be the only person in town who feels besieged by the fundies.

Find out if there's a Unitarian or Quaker congregation or some other liberal church or synagogue in town, or some liberal non-profit and look for allies there.

If you fight alone, it's easy for them to dismiss you as "some lone nutcase." If you come in with six or seven friends who feel the same way, then you'll be harder to ignore.

[BamaGirl]

67. In the post above this I mentioned my conversation

about churches tonight with a more liberal bent. I think the key to beating these people back into obscurity is to hijack their religious platform and make it Christian again.

[StupidFOX]

33. Sometimes it sucks being the good guys. Just watch the video :)

http://www.bushflash.com/ihr.html

[leesa]

34. If it is a public school, file an official complaint against the teacher

If it is private, withdraw your child and make sure they know EXACTLY why you are doing it.

[Lindacooks]

35. Definitely file a complaint against him with the school board

and the state licensing board, and the NEA:

http://www.nea.org/

http://www.myaea.org/template10.cfm?id=127&pid=126&cfid=18923&cftoken=50607192&r=662120745996

[TexasChick]

37. BamaGirl, did you tell this neocon that Jesus was the Prince of Peace?

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing this crap about Kerry wanting to kill babies! Well, folks, let's not talk about the hypocrisy of our bombs killing innocent Iraqi pregnant women (not faulting our military, they are only doing what they're told - faulting the smirking chimp and his PNAC'ers)!!! I just want to scream this to those ignoramoses!!! What about their unborn? Jesus was the Prince of Peace not the Prince of Wars. In my letter to that school, I would extremely state that you DO NOT support liars and warmongers and that not all the people in this country are dumb enough to support that chimp!!! You do not support a man who takes from the poor and gives to the elite wealthiest, an exact opposite of Christ's teachings!!!

This is getting ridiculous!! I wonder if any more parents had a reaction as well to this idiot's remarks?


Jennifer

[BamaGirl]

68. He told me their "pre mock election vote"

Was 16 to 4, in favor of Bush of course. I'm quite sure there will be other pissed off parents. I'm less sure they'll say anything, but I'm crossing my fingers.

[LWolf]

38. I live in a hardcore republican area.

If one of my colleagues did something like that, he/she would be yanked from the classroom faster than you could blink. Here one day, never seen again the next. Go immediately to the principal; if you do not like the response, go to the district superintendent. If you still don't like the response, go to a school board member.

My 5th graders have been discussing the election; 5th grade social studies in my state is all about US history, government, the constitution, etc.. Most support *. Not surprising; they're repeating what they hear from the significant people in their lives; republicans.

They asked me my opinion, and were a little surprised when I declined to discuss it. We examine and share different POVs on a regular basis, so this was "different." I explained that it would be unprincipled of me to do so; that trying to influence their political opinions would be violating the trust that their parents placed in me, and violating my own integrity as a teacher. That our classroom, as a public institution, supports their engagement in the process of inquiry to reach their own viewpoints, but may not impose any one pov on them. They thought, nodded, and then asked, "But you DO have an opinion, right?" I assured them that I had a very strong, clear opinion, and that I would definitely be casting my vote. And that I would definitely not be sharing my choice with them before or after the fact.

That conversation right there could have tipped them off, if they had more experience. But then they wouldn't be ten-year olds. ;-)

[BeFree]

45. Thanks, LWolf

Glad to know there are still people who are real Teachers.

Your attitude and professionalism should be a real inspiration to your students. Live long and prosper.

[DemBones DemBones]

58. Good job, LWolf! I'm glad I'm not teaching high school this year

because adolescents can figure things out and are probably bugging the hell out of teachers this year.

:yourock:

[BamaGirl]

69. Thanks Lwolf

I thought that should have been his repsonse too, and nice to see it backed up by a teacher!

[LWolf]

96. You're welcome.

Frankly, after the obvious ethical considerations, any teacher who supports GWB is not qualified to teach the next generation of voters to listen, research, and think critically. Just my professional opinion. ;-) Thankfully, there aren't too many of them. Even in my hardcore repub area, most teachers know better. Many of them are lifelong repubs who are voting against GWB. Those whole two I've found in my own large district who are voting for him are doing so because they submit to the "greater wisdom" of their conservative male family members.

[BamaGirl]

99. This is just creepy

Those whole two I've found in my own large district who are voting for him are doing so because they submit to the "greater wisdom" of their conservative male family members.


I was shocked to hear a teacher say he was voting for Bush. I'm still reeling over Faux News is a good source of info.

[LWolf]

103. It's creepy, but not a surprise.

Remember that the conservative "family values" include female "submission;" the subservient role is the norm. I have some colleagues who keep waiting for lightning to strike me where I sit, because I don't "submit" to anyone. I have a good friend, as well as a 15-year coworker, who separated from her husband of 20 years last year. Six months into the separation last summer, she told me defiantly, and excitedly, "I just registered as a Democrat!!!" This is as progressive a woman as I've ever met; but she never publicly registered as a Democrat because her republican husband didn't approve. She just secretly voted for Democrats and other progressives.

[donkeyotay]

39. Hey BamaGirl

You said, "I can no longer even attempt to hang on the SBC."

You mean the Southern Baptist Convention? Here's a fact you need on Baptist history. Did you know that at the time of the Constitution 11 of the 13 states had religious tests for holders of public office written into their state's constitution? The Baptists supported the separation of church and state as it was worded in the new national Constitution because THEY WERE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST WITH THOSE RELIGIOUS TESTS. Funny how things get turned around with the passage of time.

This from a great book: "The godless Constitution: the case against religious correctness by Issac Krammick and R. Laurence Moore, 1996. (Of course, they're two college professors... probably libruls...)

Good luck BamaGirl!

[BamaGirl]

70. You know, I try to point this out to Baptists all the time.

They don't listen anymore. (Here at any rate.) It drives me up the wall.

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Hey Lori

Welcome to DU! Always glad to find a another left-wing Christian ready to take one the hijackers. ;)

But very sorry this guy dragged your child through the muck. I hate when they do that. x(

*hugs and prayers*

[porphyrian]

41. Tear 'em an asshole for me.

I fucking hate them.

[cthrumatrix]

42. it's the "brownshirts" with no brains ... eff them ....

[TahitiNut]

43. I'd be BEYOND OUTRAGE.

I'd regard that as child abuse. I'd have to be restrained. At a very minimum, I'd do absolutely everything in my power to make sure that Fascist Fuck never worked again ... and I'd go after the principal as well for even allowing it to happen.

I lived in Mobile in 1963&64. I barely maintained my sanity listening to assholes say "It's about time somebody shot that n___er-lover" on that tragic day in November.

I don't think I could live in Alabama without a fully automatic AR15 and 30,000 rounds of ammo. (Yes, that a rhetorical characterization.)

[DemBones DemBones]

59. I remember going to work in St. Pete, Florida, the day after MLK was shot

and the day guard -- I worked in a bank -- started talking shit about "Somebody got that coon." I ripped him a new one, which was funny since I was only 20 and he was mid-fifties or so. I was supervisor of my department, but I think he took it because he knew I was right.

Had to go through it again with several people when I went to eat lunch in the breakroom. Reckon that's why they assigned their first-ever black employee (non-janitorial) to work in my department that year?

[southern democrat]

44. I agree you have a right to bitch.

That's our southern education system at work. In our schools openly support politicans, bumper sticker and signs in classrooms. Overwhelmingly republican but some Democrat. Even if there is some Democratic sentiment there virtually no Liberal at all. These bible thumping conservitives start at an early age, it is important to dumb down the public so it starts early. My children have been taught ideology at home. It has been part of their upbringing in our home. But with that said I have had to clairify some misconceptions that teachers had try to tell my kids about conservitive positions.

[Diogian]

46. Red states

I'm in the same boat BamaGirl. I figure I must be the last 'living' liberal in Okliehomer.
My poor little daughter has to vote in these mock elections and they always do it by 'holding up thier hands' to vote. This causes her to be ridiculed by both students and brainless ''teachers''. There was two Kerry/Edwards placards in this little town of 450 citizens. Both of our placards disappeared and we both recieved large 'red' bricks into our living room windows. I'm sure it was teenagers acting on behalf of thier brain dead parents.
One day when this country becomes a third world country of the rich and peons "Maybe" some of these jackasses will wake up. "Maybe" but probably not.
I wish it wasn't soo hard to immigrate to Canada. I spent a month there this past summer. I want it soo bad that it's painful to think about it.

[Jacobin]

49. Welcome to DU CountryBoy

:hi:

Glad to have you.

[PassingFair]

50. Too sad to believe, Countryboy!

Try to get as far up as Michigan! We're cool blue. Better yet, try working with your African-American citizens. They are the BEST and TRUEST voting block for democracy. Here in Michigan, African-Americans choose Kerry over Bush by 400 TO 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Help them get to the polls unmolested. And piss off a good many 'pukes, too boot!

[Diogian]

55. What African-Americans?

Thanks for the welcome.
In response to 'working with your African-American citizens' - LOL We have NO African-Americans around these here parts. Not a single one. That really made me laugh out loud.

[BamaGirl]

72. Omg, this kind of thing completely pisses me off!

One of the reasons I was reluctant to put up a sign, but there haven't been any incidences here that I could discover so I went ahead.

I often joke that I'm the last liberal in Bama, so I know how you feel. I "found" the local Democrats this week though, and it's been a relief. I really feel for you not having that support.

[Maestro]

47. As a teacher and an administrator at a

school, I can not tell you how inappropriate this is. First thing tomorrow, after you calm down, talk to the principal. This deserves a suspension or at the very least a reprimand permanently placed on the teaching certificate of that teacher. What an idiot! I'd make sure he was no longer at my school if I were the principal.

[DemBones DemBones]

52. If I were you, I'd demand that my child be transferred to another

teacher's class, unless the principal is willing to come down VERY hard on that teacher.

The principal should make the teacher apologize to the children for teaching HIS OWN damned political opinions and apparently doing free commercials for FOX in the classroom. The teacher should also have to apologize to you, both in person and in writing, and a letter of apology should be sent to all parents, with a signed prefatory note from the principal explaining what the idiot did.

This is something that should go to the school board, though it's always best to give the school administration a chance first. I'd go to the PTA about it, too.

This behavior is TOTALLY out of line for a public school teacher! I am furious on your behalf, as a mother and as a former public school teacher, not to even mention my political views.

If the teacher had endorsed John Kerry, he'd still be wrong. Smarter, but wrong.

<Takes deep breath> Breathe in, breathe out.

In the real world, you may not want to make such big waves, since you have to live there, among people you may think this teacher's actions are just peachy. And you can't expect things to turn out perfectly.

As a parent, I was often annoyed, and more than once irate, at stupid crap done by teachers, and that was both public and private school teachers, but most of the time I/we got NO satisfaction from administrators, though I/we usually got a wishy-washy feel-good line of bullshit from them. It's possible they gave some teachers hell -- God knows they do that -- but usually they try to "resolve" problems without really doing shit. If I sound a tad cynical, I am. It's not only this way in education, of course, it's that way in any workplace -- middle management mediating between groups and trying to cover the ass of idiot employees while still smoothing clients' ruffled feathers. The obtuseness of administrators in the schools was a large part of my decision to leave the public schools, however. Here in the South, the admins are all too often former coaches with the deliberate ignorance that many athletes choose. And they don't do nuance, either.

Even so, I really believe you need to talk to the principal and if you get no satisfaction there, go to the superintendent and/or an open board meeting. The teacher told your child a lie about John Kerry not paying the military and that is a very serious charge to make when there are children of military families in the classroom. I was a military brat and heard some crap from teachers about how my mother was able to save so much money at the comissary that it made up for the difficulties of military life, that sort of garbage, but I think this is a bit worse, especially considering the child's age.

Discussing abortion with children that young is also a big no-no as far as I'm concerned. I remember my daughter being horribly upset by something she saw on television about abortion when she was 7. It was in a movie trailer and forced me to have a long talk with her.

I'm ready to come over there and help you fight the bastard now!

Give 'em Hell, 'BamaGirl!

[screembloodymurder]

53. ? You did say you live in Alabama

?

[LiberalAndProud]

56. I'd want his job if I were you. Makes school board elections look

mighty important. This is NOT appropriate in our public schools!

[DemBones DemBones]

60. And WE are going to have to get on the school boards to protect the

children from idiots of any political or religious affiliation who believe they have a right to lobby children.

[TexasTwister]

61. Call To Arms For Catholics and Kerry Supporters

Need help attacking a threat with the same vigor as Sinclair.

I understand Catholics make up 1/4 of the vote. I,as a Catholic,am extremely offended and upset with the smear tactics of a site www.catholic.com and their Voters Guide for Catholics. It has distributed millions of copies of a guide that describe:

THE FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLE ISSUES - Abortion,Euthanasia,Embryonic Stem Cell Research,Human Cloning and Homosexual Marriage.

According to them, these are the only issues a Catholic must use to choose a candidate. Social values, war and public execution policies of the candidate can't be considered. I have been a Catholic a long time and never heard of such nonsense. A true Catholic using all Catholic values to judge the candidate could easily determine that John Kerry , a Catholic, would be the no brain choice over the demon seed Bush. I think Bush is one of the most evil leaders in history if you haven't guessed. This is a right wing effort which I seriously doubt are actual Catholics. The website www.catholic.com has a politics forum that is filled with Kerry hate and nonsense. Any attempt, short of calling Bush a saint and Kerry the devil is not tolerated. It is met with vicious and nasty attacks no Catholic I ever met would do. I expressed my opinions and posted every rebuttal I could and was cheered by many in private messages but was suspended anyway after about 4 days. It is time a army of real Catholics and all others seeking justice in this world from the lies and deceit of the right wing even the score and promote the truth about John Kerry. Please join this forum and attack in PoliticsII. These people go as far as saying a vote for Kerry is a mortal sin. Polls have shown Kerry has a 4% lead among Catholic voters. I think there is a lot of room for improvement here and could be a deciding factor. Any other ideas to neutralize this organized Republican effort would be greatly appreciated.

[merh]

77. I got an email today with the abbreviated election guide

which contained things like: Bush is against abortion/Kerry is for abortion -- Bush is for restoring prayer in public schools/Kerry is against it, etc.

I went to the debate transcripts and provided to the idiots (the person who sent it and all on his list) Kerry's stances on partial birth abortion, abortion, gay marriage, judges, etc.

The prayer in school shit, I simply asked for a link that supported the contention and then I cited Matthew 6 - regarding prayer - pointing out that public prayer is inapposite to the teachings of Christ!

The Pope is against capital punishment (Bush supports it and laughs when a born again Christian is executed); the Pope opposed military action in Iraq and vehemently opposes the war and has called for peace; I could go on and on....

I resent the RWer fundies for stealing my nation and my religion. But I resent more members of my faith believing the crap and not following the teachings of Christ.

[Mean_Mr_Mustard]

64. Amen

Brother!!!!!!!

[Bucky]

71. Another vote for reporting him. Teacher should not do propaganda

I tell my kids very frankly what my opinions are and encourage them to have thoughtful conversations about current events. But if I think that the pro-Bush side isn't getting a fair representation, I gladly make the pro-Bush arguments because a classroom has to be a place where kids get a fair and well-rounded exposure to all valid points of view.

Of course I teach high school. For this teacher to poison the minds of 8 yr olds is abolutely inexcuseable. Nail his ass.

[sonias]

74. Take it to the principal and to the school board

If they don't discipline or fire him take it to the ACLU. The ACLU really doesn't like this kind of intimidation in schools.

Sonia

[dave502d]

76. My dad.

My dad was in WWII in the 1st502d and he jump on D-Day and was hit 3 time during the war.He never when to church much.
When he was 55 he started going to church.The church needed lot of
work,he work on that church and other churches of their for 15 year.
Than one Sunday the paster started talking about the GOP and how ever one should back them.He got up and walk out and hasn't been to
church sent that day,that was in 1998.He was 19 year old when he went
in the service.I can remember him fighting the war in our front room when i was a kid.I just don't want more kids to go though these
fucking wars and than have a church tell them who to vote for.

[shawn703]

78. If you think that's bad

I walked into my kid's school this morning and saw a sign outside the kindergarten class that the teacher must have had them make. On it were things like "Go Bush!" and "Four More Years!" I'll take a picture of it with my phone tomorrow if anyone wants to see it. Didn't see anything like that outside my daugther's 1st grade class - I would have blew my stack if I knew they were having my kid help them produce right-wing propaganda.

[BamaGirl]

86. Omg

I will lose it if I see anything like this. Where are you?

The only ray of light was my daughter said the librarian said Bill Clinton was a good president. I figure they'll try to fire her soon if that gets out.

[shawn703]

102. I live in Virginia

Hopefully it'll go blue this year just to spite them.

[DemBones DemBones]

91. You need to complain at your school, too.

I'd complain about the teacher who posted that even though you don't have a child in that class.

[southlandshari]

79. There is hope, bamagirl!

I haven't read this whole thread, yet, and I intend to read it closely tonight. But I really wanted to share something that happened to me today, because I feel your pain (sorry for the cliche), living back here in my home state of Alabama, when it comes to national politics (and state politics, for that matter).

My job requires me to drive extensively in a multi-county area in central Alabama, and I've learned more county roads in this part of the country than I have hairs on my head.

I was way out in the proverbial "boonies" this morning, where any car that isn't a pickup truck is outnumbered 10 to 1, and if you aren't into hunting whatever is in season, you get your a@% indoors before dark during hunting season lest you be mistaken for prey!

I was walking out of a gas station on a rural road with nothing but nature in sight, and imagine my surprise to see the common pickup truck in front of the pumps with the very UNcommon John Kerry bumper sticker in the window! There were also bumper stickers for veteran's assocations and a big gun rack in the back. The driver was sitting in the truck, and I could see crutches in the cab and a wheelchair mount on the back bumper.

I could not walk away from this. I went and knocked on the passenger window and the driver, looking a bit startled, leaned over and unlocked the door. I opened it and told him I loved his bumper stickers, and that, more importantly, I deeply appreciated his service to our country. He looked genuinely pleased, and shook my hand and thanked me.

Nothing earth-shattering. I closed the door and walked back to my car (with a Kerry-Edwards sticker on the back bumper). I beeped my horn as I pulled out back into next to nowhere. But it made my day. I am still inspired, just writing about it.

Keep the faith!

[Andromeda]

92. That's a great story...

so moving and deeply inspirational. Evidentally nobody bothered this man who supported Kerry. There are probably a lot more out there too.

[LizW]

80. I feel for you , BamaGirl

I live in a suburb of Birmingham, and both my kids' schools are into the election talk pretty big. My middle schooler has a really gung-ho social studies teacher, and they're doing civics right now. The talk is all about Bush vs. Kerry. I asked him if she had said who she supported and he said no. I said, "Who do you think she supports?" He thought a minute and said, "I'm not sure." So I figure she must be doing it right.

He came to me earlier tonight and said they could bring election stickers or buttons for a display and get extra credit. He said he needed something because the whole board would probably be covered with "W" stickers. I gave up my last unused Kerry bumper sticker for him to take! ;)

In my other son's school it's not so great. He came home the other day saying he was voting for Bush because Kerry would raise taxes. I explained to him how that was not true and asked him where he heard that. He heard it from a little friend, not from the teacher.

Another day he said the this same friend told him that Democrats didn't believe in God. That about blew my gasket, and I finally told him that his little friend didn't know what he was talking about and was telling things that aren't true.

[BamaGirl]

84. Liz and Shari

Not alone! It's a beautiful feeling lol! What kind of vibe are y'all getting where you are? Kerry will win in the city limits in Dothan, I'm pretty sure, but Bush will take the county. We'll vote to oust Shelby and Everett too, but I don't have much hope as far as getting them out of office. I want Bama to go blue dammit! I can still hope lol.

I've gone to two Dem meetings this week. Last night someone had a bumper sticker that says, AWOL in Alabama, Where Was George Bush? SHe said she got it from someone in Montgomery. That has to be the best one I've seen yet. I'm starting to see a couple of Kerry signs and bumper stickers locally too, but no increase in Bush signs. And in 2000 there were tons of them.

I'm not sure what I'll do about the school. These people control the system. I have to live here and my husband works for the city. I'm going to complain to the principal of course, (I know from past issues that will get me nowhere) and I'm leaning towards having her moved to another class. I no longer trust this teacher at all, obviously.

My daughter and I had the tax conversation today too. I told her we either need to pay more taxes, or she would be paying the bill for this war when she's old. Simplified to be sure, but she seemed to get that, and sure doesn't want to pay my bills lol. She talked to my Dad tonight too, who is a pro life Dem, so hopefully that will make a difference. Other than that, I could tell from her side of the conversation that I have a great deal of explaining to do with her. She has everything mixed up...9/11, Iraq, Viet Nam (how the heck did that get in there!?), GOP, Dems, religion...it's a mess. We had a long talk this afternoon about nuclear bombs. I'm just disgusted.

[pauliedangerously]

87. You GO BAMA girl!!!

Your story reminds me of the 1976 election. I was a fifth grader in the Houston Independent School District and my teacher told us she was a Republican because of the "right to life issue." I lived in the South for 17 more years. Now I'm in Minnesota, and unfortunately, it's getting more like Dixie every day....except it gets really cold up here...maybe global warming will fix that too...

:(

[kurtyboy]

89. Give 'em hell, BG!

But what took so long? Why now? The way these folks work has been clear for some time--

No matter--Get that sign up, and if it getsvandalized, put up another. And tell your pooch to take a bite out of crime!

Kurt

[NuttyFluffers]

93. SBC is a phone company and a church?!?!

oh wait... southern baptist christian? my bad.

[2ndPlatoon]

94. Wow!

You are mad. Sounds like this fellow got to you. Thats too bad. Once they get you to lose composure it is all over.

[BamaGirl]

101. Nope, I did not lose my cool.

I came home and did that lol. It is obvious you can't talk to these idiots, so I stuck along the lines of "you do not have the right to talk to my kid about this". Unfortunately, they do not get that either.

[Robeson]

95. Wow, this was a public school?

I've grown up and live in the South, and thats pretty extreme even for down here in a public school. Private schools, sure, thats common place.

As one poster said, I hope you've got a good attorney in your back pocket. However, you are living in Alabama, and as you said, its a red state. Red on the map, and red on the neck. Don't take that personally, I'm a fellow "Southerner" so I'm sure you can relate.

I talk to a guy sometimes who works for the military industrial complex in Huntsville. Wow. There is absolutely no getting through, or penetrating his brain. He's like dealing with a Moonie. But as you described above, I don't have to tell you. Good Luck!!

[itcfish1]

97. Excuse Me

Is this a public school? If it is, the lesson of a mock election is to teach the children about the process, not to tell them who to vote for. I would make a stink about it. Your taxes pay for PUBLIC school.

[prayin4rain]

98. I can't believe he talked to your 8 year old about abortion.

That is twisted.