I went to the local college dem/repuke debate tonight

[strategery blunder]

I was in the audience. During the Iraq discussion, the rethuglikkkans tried to say that Saddam had been a threat for the last 12 years, and they cited Operation Desert Fox (when Clinton fired some cruise missles into Iraq in 1998 after Saddam kicked out inspectors) to justify their little um, distortion.

I gleefully wrote this down. :evilgrin: When question time came, I had very evil thoughts.:evilgrin:

"My question is directed at the College Republicans. During the Iraq discussion, you cited Clinton's 1998 Operation Desert Fox as evidence of the alleged Iraqi threat to America. Yet, as I recall, in 1998, Republicans were screaming bloody murder about Clinton 'wagging the dog.' How do you explain this flip-flop?"

Their response: "Uh, Klintoon's timing was suspicious---he should have done it sooner!"

The College Dems were just itching for a rebuttal--I could see it on their faces--so I told the mod that I would appreciate a short Dem response. During which, they pointed out that the 'suspicious timing' was due to when Saddam kicked out inspectors, not 'wagging the dog.':)

[WLKjr]

1. Don't you love how the righties fall apart when you call thier BS?

I know I do. I get a satisfaction from it :evilgrin:

[friesianrider]

2. Hey I made a College Repuke storm out of a debate tonight!

Just got back ;)

I said * said he did not serve in combat. The Repuke starts ranting about * didn't serve and how dare she, the National Guard should be respected, etc. I said again "I said he did not serve in COMBAT". And he fussed something else, stormed through the hall, and slammed two doors. What a child. Proves he couldn't defend his Chimp-in-Chief and made them look like the idiots they are.

[strategery blunder]

3. Oooooooooooh, nice work

:bounce:

Chickenhawkishness never came up, surprisingly

[TahitiNut]

4. Saddam never "kicked out inspectors"

:shrug:

[strategery blunder]

5. I admit I have a fuzzy political memory from the time

Then what happened to them? I know the UN inspectors weren't in Iraq for a period of about five years starting in 1998; I thought they were expelled? :shrug: Or did the UN withdraw them voluntarily as a result of Desert Fox?

Fudge, this means the dems made a gaffe in the response...

[TahitiNut]

7. The Iraq weapons inspections (a concise history) ...

The ceasefire agreement of April 1991 established a UN special commission, Unscom, whose role it was to dismantle the non-nuclear arsenal and to assist the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in dismantling Iraq's nuclear weapons programme. Additional responsibilities included preventing so-called "dual use" exports with NBC or ballistic missile potential from reaching Iraq.

Unscom was charged with monitoring Iraq's compliance with the UN resolution. Sanctions were imposed until such a time when the inspectors could certify that all NBC programmes and their component agents and equipment had been destroyed. The sanctions continue to this day.

Unscom was forced out (by the UN, due to safety concerns) of Iraq in 1992, when mobs attacked the weapons inspectors. They did return, but were denied access to various buildings (mostly Presidential "Palaces") and in 1997 Iraq expelled all US(!) inspectors. In October 1998 Iraq ceased all cooperation with Unscom. It resumed it in November but in December the bombing began.

In December 1998, Unscom pulled out of Iraq amid complaints of obstruction by Iraq. Meanwhile, Baghdad claimed that the body was little more than a front for US spies (with some justification; the presence of CIA agents was later confirmed by the US, UN and former inspectors). It left ahead of Operation Desert Fox, 70 hours of US-British airstrikes designed to punish Iraq for failing to cooperate with the inspectors.

Note: That's over six years of US "intelligence" embedded in Iraq that made damned sure Iraq couldn't fight back when invaded!

Unscom was disbanded and replaced in December 1999 by the UN monitoring, verification and inspection commission (Unmovic) funded by limited sales of Iraqi oil. Resolution 1284, which set up Unmovic, specified that if Iraq cooperated with the new inspection team for 120 days, sanctions would be suspended and then lifted. Iraq rejected the plan as a "criminal resolution" that would "transform Iraq into a protectorate governed from outside with Iraqi money".

On November 18, 2002, a team of about 30 weapons inspectors, led by the chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix, and the director of the IAEA, Mohammed el-Baradei, returned to Baghdad to begin Unmovic's work.

They were withdrawn due to the impending US invasion in 2003.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Y5LBzbhM1p4J:www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,794275,00.html+UN+Weapons+Inspection+Iraq+history&hl=en&lr=lang_en

[strategery blunder]

8. Oy, these subleties would be lost on an eighth grader

I wasn't even in high school yet when most of this happened...

Thanks for the explanation.:)

[TahitiNut]

9. Sure thing. I think it's important to be alert to this lie.

While Iraq (understandably, imho) resisted the embedded CIA agents and the unhindered access of the inspection teams to facilities not remotely associated with WMD, and they did "kick out" the US members of the inspection teams, over a period of eleven years the weapons teams were quite obviously 100% effective.

IMHO, the abuses (relative to the agreements and UN resolutions) of the inspections regime were more egregious on the part of the US than Iraq. We must never forget the abundant aerial and satellite surveillance over those eleven years, either. The technology of that surveillance is good enough to read license plate numbers.

The kind of industrial and environmental impact of the production, distribution, storage, deployment, and clean-up of such weapons is huge. We haven't even been able to clean up 5% of the enormous (hundreds of square miles) toxic pollution that resulted just from our nuclear weapons programs. It took the US over six years just to destroy obsolete napalm that was polluting the soil at Umatilla in Oregon.

The U.S. LIES about this have been even more ENORMOUS.

[wellst0nev0ter]

6. Yes, The Inspectors Were Pulled Out In Anticipation Of Targeted Strikes

And we all know how the Lewisky scandal was ginned up in an attempt to keep Clinton from doing his job.