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Grand Canyon made by "Noah's flood" according to Bush!!

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YEM Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 08:53 AM
Original message
Grand Canyon made by "Noah's flood" according to Bush!!
Edited on Wed Oct-20-04 08:54 AM by YEM
Yes, this is real folks. Bush endorses a book on our national parks that states the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood, and not by geologic formations. And in other news, Bush says "the Tooth fairy is REAL!"


http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_14313.shtml

Park Service Sticks With Biblical Explanation For Grand Canyon
Promised Legal Review on Creationist Book Is Shelved
By: Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER)
Published: Oct 14, 2004
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The Bush Administration has decided that it will stand by its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, according to internal documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

Despite telling members of Congress and the public that the legality and appropriateness of the National Park Service offering a creationist book for sale at Grand Canyon museums and bookstores was “under review at the national level by several offices,” no such review took place, according to materials obtained by PEER under the Freedom of Information Act. Instead, the real agency position was expressed by NPS spokesperson Elaine Sevy as quoted in the Baptist Press News:

“Now that the book has become quite popular, we don’t want to remove it.”

In August of 2003, Grand Canyon National Park Superintendent Joe Alston attempted to block the sale of Grand Canyon: A Different View, by Tom Vail, a book explaining how the park’s central feature developed on a biblical rather than an evolutionary time scale. NPS Headquarters, however, intervened and overruled Alston. To quiet the resulting furor, NPS Chief of Communications David Barna told reporters that there would be a high-level policy review, distributing talking points stating: “We hope to have a final decision in February <2004>.” In fact, the promised review never occurred –

· In late February, Barna crafted a draft letter to concerned members of Congress stating: “We hope to have a final decision on the book in March 2004.” That draft was rewritten in June and finally sent out to Congressional representatives with no completion date for the review at all;

· NPS Headquarters did not respond to a January 25th memo from its own top geologists charging that sale of the book violated agency policies and undercut its scientific education programs;

· The Park Service ignored a letter of protest signed by the presidents of seven scientific societies on December 16, 2003.

“Promoting creationism in our national parks is just as wrong as promoting it in our public schools,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch, “If the Bush Administration is using public resources for pandering to Christian fundamentalists, it should at least have the decency to tell the truth about it.”

The creationist book is not the only religious controversy at Grand Canyon National Park. One week prior to the approved sale of Grand Canyon: A Different View, NPS Deputy Director Donald Murphy ordered that bronze plaques bearing Psalm verses be returned and reinstalled at canyon overlooks. Superintendent Alston had removed the bronze plaques on legal advice from Interior Department solicitors. Murphy also wrote a letter of apology to the plaques’ sponsors, the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary. PEER has collected other instances of what it calls the Bush Administration’s “Faith-Based Parks” agenda.
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. And all this time I thought it was weathering and the Co. River...
Edited on Wed Oct-20-04 08:56 AM by liberalitch
silly me!
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ghostsofgiants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Check out Penn & Teller's "Bullshit"
They do an episode on creationism that talks about this.

How dumb are people though, really?
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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. link for Penn & Teller?
Got a link for the routine you mention?
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. How can that be
We actually don't exist because the world is flat and we've dropped off the edge.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. This guy sounds like Jethro Bodine. Never got past the 5th grade.
Harvard educated? He just sounds dumber every time he opens his mouth.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. About seven or eight years ago
I was at the Grand Canyon and my tour guide (not a Park Service employee, but one employed by the commercial 3-hour tour I took) gave a creationist explanation for the formation of the canyon. I was appalled and let him know.
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Heyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. So is this a situation...
... where the bookstoore at the National Park at the canyon sells many books about it, and this is just one of those books?

Heyo
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cestanfill Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. While the idea is stupid and wrong, you guys are promoting censorship...
There are other books in the Grand Canyon bookstore that don't promote this idiocy.

We can't let their stupidity cause us to use their tactics... we're better than that. :-)
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Hi cestanfill!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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dpibel Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Ah, yes
Just another point of view in the marketplace of ideas, right?

I mean, no problem with the Park Service appearing to legitimize a fairy tale, correct?

After all, most Americans would treat that just about like a book recounting a Native American account of how the Grand Canyon was made.

Wouldn't they?
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. The earth is flat !
Didn't we spend the last 500 years getting away from Bush's kind of thinking?
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. the man is stupid..when will the press admit it
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. EEEEEAAAAGGGHHH KILL ME NOW KILL ME NOW KILL ME NOW
SHIT since I'm already in HELL with my shit BUSHITE Job in this shit BUSHITE country I might as well go to Hell for real.

I thought they made medication for delusional pyschotic disconnect?
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. A Naive And Childlike Biblical View Of The World...
... that totally flies in the face of scientific and geological record. The evidence does NOT support such juvenile claims and beliefs... yet he ascribes to this nonsense and promotes it as factual???

WHAT IDIOTS!

-- Allen
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Radio-Active Donating Member (735 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. So floods cause geological erosion
in some areas but not others?

Even if they use a "creationist logic", it doesn't make sense.
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
12. I have a theory that the GC was carved by a singing hamster...
using a megapowered laser in Earth orbit.

If I put this in a book, will the Grand Canyon sell it? It has as much scientific validity as the flood thing.
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ChrisK Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. Little by little till its all excepted
Thats what happening in areas of the government now, little by little the conservatives are added there religious ideas and beliefs to government owned or run programs like its truth or some well-stated fact when all it really is is faith.

I personally don't care what a person wants to believe because thats there own business but when you try to establish faith as fact I have a problem. I know to some out there in the world religion IS fact but religion is not based on science where you can test your ideas and get the right results, I know that for most religious-leaning people science is something of a "religion" but the two are so different in scope and understanding I find it odd that one could get them confused.

I think it was primate1 who talked about the Penn & Teller show talking about the Grand Canyon, the episode was "Creationism" and sadly shows how people try to force "fiction" to become fact based on wild ideals and faith...Those ideas, in my opinion, belong in the religious schools or the houses of worship, not in government run programs, national parks, or government owned bookstores or gift shops.

If you want I have a link here to what the ACLU has to say about "Creation-science"..good read if you have a minute to go through it (got the link from the Bullshit website)


We are a thinking, reasoning, species and science helps us to understand ourselves and the world around us, religion is more about faith and not much else...you can question what you read in a science text book and look at it from many angles, you can't do that with religion because its not based on question but faith, you have to believe in what your told or have read and if you question it your said to have "lost your faith".

I know there are some religions out there that have a bit more of an open-minded understanding of what they teach us about ourselves and of the world in which we all live but I am talking more of the main-stream, hardcore religions.

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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. Bush is a Scarey, Scarey man.
I am not in favor of banning books, even if they are wrong. There is a place for this book in the mythology section.

The frightening thing is that Bush believes it.
1) With that kind of world view, I don't feel he will keep me very safe from the deeds of man. "It is God's will." may be used to excuse the next terrorist attack.
2) Are we being dragged back into the dark ages in regard to medical research. If the flu takes 18,000 lives, will he just say, "It is God's will."

I am surprised he hasn't already blamed unemployment on "God's will."
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. As I've said here before, I don't know whether

this upsets me more as a biologist or as a Christian.

It does not reflect well on our country, which is supposed to keep church and state separate.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. AGREED!
Edited on Thu Oct-21-04 10:37 AM by dallan
I too, don't know how to respond to this properly as a Christian. We're all fallible, but I'll try and make my point. First, the comment about the guy in the post several above saying how irate he was that the park employee gave his opinion of creationism, I say, chill. Yes, his reasoning is probably inaccurate to begin with, but I don't ever go off on lovers of Darwinism for their beliefs, you simply could have said, "well, I don't subscribe to that belief, what's next on the tour?" instead of becoming appalled, it's not that big of a deal, like what he said should effect you. He simply gave his, albeit false in our opinions, view.

Secondly, I'm tired of my fellow DU'ers thinking that this man speaks for God Almighty. He is a door knob folks, he's just like the people in the bible that God says to look out for, he is a veritable "sheep in wolf's clothing" out there saying God leads him but continues to drop bombs on a nation that doesn't have a damn thing to do with 9/11, and we have to continue reading day after day that little children are dying in Iraq, focuses on the wealthy and power hungry and ignores the families who have little food because they pay so much for healthcare, gas, and heating fuel. He is, arguably, a monster.

And that's just sad. I hope for a clear victory for John Kerry on November 2nd. And, no, God's not telling me, ha, but I'm counting on the young voters to sway this his way 52-47.

God bless. Have a great day enjoying the beauty around us!
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Even assuming the flood was real...
...it happened in the Middle East.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. Let's bring back trial by ordeal.
If you drown, you're innocent.

--IMM
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
19. There's enough to criticize Bush on without this stretch. Big Stretch.
If you want to get your dander up, bitch about the poor visibility over the canyon from the huge coal-fired plants.

All that happened is that the park service is going to sell this idiotic creationist book, along with the dozens of other books that they sell in the book shops at the canyon, all of the rest of which are based on legitimate science.

You make it sound like its the only book they sell, and they tie you up and read the book to you if you go there.

You also make it sound like you are in favor of the book being banned from the bookstores at the canyon.

Thus you are not merely exxagerating and over-reacting, you are pushing for censorship of views you disagree with.
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Robbie67 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Perhaps not banned
Maybe they have a Comedy section in the Grand Canyon bookstore. But it shouldn't be presented to anyone as if it's based on any facts or evidence.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. He'll be gone soon enough
Edited on Thu Oct-21-04 10:45 AM by dallan
Bush is toast, that's all I need to know. Looking better every day!
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sister moon Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. Once and for all
There never was a great flood.
The creation myth is just that: a myth.
There is no invisible man in the sky keeping track of all you do.
The so-called christians are the ones making these assertions and the onus is on them to prove they are true. Got no proof? then shut the hell up and keep your mental illness to yourself.

sorry to be so harsh but I've had it up to my eyeballs with this religion crap and now that it has infiltrated my government I am more than a little pissed (and scared). Has everyone lost their fucking mind?
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Robbie67 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Amen!
or, even, Awoman! :hi:
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
24. LOL Welcome to Lame Duck Bush's Fairy Tales...
what f*ckn' next?? :crazy:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
26. Of course it is!
And the earth is the exact center of the universe. Humans are God's greatest creation. And God picked George W. to reveal this hidden truth to all human-kind. Look up at all the stars in the sky this evening, and take comfort in knowing that George is the president of the universe.
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dirtyduck Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. So typical
I saw this yesterday. Geologists and professors/teachers must be cringing. I wonder what would happen if I were in elementary school and repeated this "fact" on a test... think I'd get it marked correct?

But this is from the administration that thinks women will feel better from PMS by reading the Bible more.

AHHH!!!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. Oh, COME ON.
What's next, b*sh? The sun revolves around the Earth?

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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. Har! and they always laugh at Kansas for this kind of crap??
Hell,did anyone find the Ark down at the bottom against some rocks?? Gawd.....


David
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