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The new Mud: Kerry should have gotton dishonourable Discharge

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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:24 PM
Original message
The new Mud: Kerry should have gotton dishonourable Discharge
it seems since the Shrubbery can no longer say that Kerry didn'
t deserve his medals, they are trying another tactic... that Kerry was about to be dishounrably discharged.

Not being an expert in Naval and Military law, any help would be nice in refuting this tot his freeper I am currently arguing with.

http://groups.msn.com/RushversusReality/rushvsreality.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=138082&LastModified=4675494086585801122&all_topics=0

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.

According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.

The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.

The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?

NBC's release this March of some of the Nixon White House tapes about Mr. Kerry show a great deal of interest in Mr. Kerry by Nixon and his executive staff, including, perhaps most importantly, Nixon's special counsel, Charles Colson. In a meeting the day after Mr. Kerry's Senate testimony, April 23, 1971, Mr. Colson attacks Mr. Kerry as a "complete opportunist...We'll keep hitting him, Mr. President."

Mr. Colson was still on the case two months later, according to a memo he wrote on June 15,1971, that was brought to the surface by the Houston Chronicle. "Let's destroy this young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader." Nixon had been a naval officer in World War II. Mr. Colson was a former Marine captain. Mr. Colson had been prodded to find "dirt" on Mr. Kerry, but reported that he couldn't find any.

The Nixon administration ran FBI surveillance on Mr. Kerry from September 1970 until August 1972. Finding grounds for an other than honorable discharge, however, for a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, given his numerous activities while still a reserve officer of the Navy, was easier than finding "dirt."
......................................

Mr. Colson refused to answer any questions about his activities regarding Mr. Kerry during his time in the Nixon White House. The secretary of the Navy at the time during the Nixon presidency is the current chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Warner. A spokesman for the senator, John Ullyot, said, "Senator Warner has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."

The "board of officers" review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about "by direction of the President." No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry's hidden military records.

Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.

Mr. Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, which would allow the release of all his military records. And some of his various spokesmen have claimed that all his records are already posted on his Web site. But the Washington Post already noted that the Naval Personnel Office admitted that they were still withholding about 100 pages of files.

If Mr. Kerry was the victim of a Nixon "enemies list" hit, one might have expected him to wear it like a badge of honor, like many others such as his friend Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, CBS's Daniel Schorr, or the actor Paul Newman, who had made Mr. Colson's original list of 20 "enemies."

There are a number of categories of discharges besides honorable. There are general discharges, medical discharges, bad conduct discharges, as well as other than honorable and dishonorable discharges. There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued."

http://www.nysun.com/article/3107
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is last weeks effort
didn't work any more that all the other faux distractions have done
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why are you reprinting this crap here?
Edited on Wed Oct-20-04 09:29 PM by ocelot
It's old non-news. Nothing that wasn't beaten to death and completely discredited 30 years ago. Take it back to Freeperville.
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JetCityLiberal Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Desperation
Pathetic.


JetCityLiberal
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proReality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. They're so desperate!
And pathetic. And delusional. And evil.

God! What makes people do things like that?!
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Saw the same crap on another freeper-like site.
Those old Nixon Republicans can't give it up. I looked at the Kerry site and couldn't find the first discharge, don't know why. They will do anything to smear him.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't you just love the last two weeks before the election?
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sister moon Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ho Hum.
Let the rethugs raise this issue. The American public must be sick to death by now of hearing about Kerry's Vietnam service. It will backfire on them, looking like whining and nitpicking and obvious attempt to divert attention away from the disastrous record of this administration. The public is slowly waking up and beginning to realize how they are being manipulated. Keep pounding away at what really matters to people: jobs, the economy, healthcare, social security, Iraq, civil liberties. Talk about the REAL issues, let the Pugs look like the desperate crying babies they are.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. you'll notice
that there's not a SINGLE piece of evidence in the article. It's entirely speculation.

It's also nuts to believe that a) a nationally prominent warrior-turned-activist would've drawn no attention if they'd tried to discharge him dishonorably and b) not a single political opponent in 30 years would've used it against him.

Let's see Bush's paperwork so we can determine if he left the Guard because of a cocaine addiction. Let's see his arrest records. Let's see his Texas driving records. Let's see his current health records.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. This was supposed to be some kind of October surprise
they were braggin' about it over at freeperville. It got no where. Its dead in the water. Political vaporware.
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JRicks_GA Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. The best advice I can give you
is to never argue with an idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. So what your telling me is Tricky Dick Nixon wanted Kerry to be given
a dishonarable discharge. and I am supposed to be upset about it?

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Full debunking HERE:
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