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Transcript to "Stolen Honor" & letter page devoted to Sinclair

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 06:00 AM
Original message
Transcript to "Stolen Honor" & letter page devoted to Sinclair
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 06:13 AM by G_j
Transcript to "Stolen Honor"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/20/20312/528

:puke:

---------------------------
Today's letter page in our local paper is dedicated to letters about Sinclair. (WLOS is a Sinclair station.)
http://www.citizen-times.com/letters.shtml
--------------------------
Asheville protests WLOS tonight!
http://www.sinclairwatch.net/flyer.shtml
--------------------------
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It goes back to the Repug idea that you should never question your govt
Kerry served and was highly decorated for his service. He then took what he gained from the experience to protest what he believed to be wrong. Thirty years later most people believe the Vietnam war was a mistake and was terribly mismanaged. Most people don't blame the soldiers that fought there, they blame the government.

I think Kerry is to be commended for speaking out about what he thought was a mistake.

BTW, my father was in Vietnam from 1967-1968 and was awarded a Bronze Star with Oak Cluster and two Purple Hearts. One week before he was to return to the States his company, C Company 4/9 Manchus, was ambushed at Hoc Mon bridge (March 2, 1968). Only 19 men in the company were not either wounded or killed. Fortunately for me my father was not there because he was preparing to be shipped back to the states. His return was delayed while he helped identify the bodies of his friends. The only time I've known him to cry is when I asked him about this. I've never asked him since.

It's another example of how the Republicans try to divide our country by bringing up memories and feelings that should be laid to rest. We should be looking towards the future, searching for ways to make our citizens lives better rather than looking backwards in an effort to stir up hatred and trying to place the blame on one or two individuals rather than writing it off as a low point in our country's history.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Apples and Oranges -
F9/11 was factchecked to death and Michael Moore has always been upfront that it is a partisan opinion piece backed up with research.

"Stolen Honor" is being passed off as "News" and "The Truth" when it has been picked apart already for editing Kerry to make him say things he never said, for using already discredited witnesses to smear him, etc etc,

Go read this - David Schuster/MSNBC. I'll snip out some quotes, but please read the whole thing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6198935/#041012c

<snip>

"Stolen Honor" has several prominent factual errors:  First, former America POWs are quoted on camera as saying "we stayed two more years because of the demonstrators like Fonda and Kerry... I figure they owe us two years."   I have no doubt that some POW's feel that way.  But the fact is, the war stopped in 1973 when the Nixon administration negotiated an end.  History shows it was the lack of a settlement before then, not the protests, that kept the North Vietnamese fighting. 

Secondly, part of John Kerry's testimony as depicted in the film starts in mid-sentence.  "They cut off ears, limbs, heads..."  This editing makes it seem that John Kerry was making the allegations, when the sentence actually begins with Kerry saying, "They said they..."  The difference is crucial.  In reality, as opposed to this film, John Kerry always attributed those dramatic allegations to the testimony of other US soldiers.  

Thirdly, the film only features POWs who say John Kerry's name was invoked by north Vietnamese prison guards.  But we've spoken to dozens of POWs who spent years in Vietnamese prison camps and say they never heard John Kerry's name mentioned once. 

<snip>

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. More like a "The Eternal Jew" for 21st century facism.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 11:35 AM by JHB
Compare the volume and quality of smears with the original:
http://veritas3.holocaust-history.org/der-ewige-jude/stills.shtml
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OutsourceBush Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Owner of Sinclair's "Stolen Honor" production company is a Bush appointee
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. & Carlton Sherwood, producer and host of Stolen Honor
Carlton Sherwood, producer and host of Stolen Honor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Sherwood

... Sherwood formerly worked for Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, whom George W. Bush later appointed as the first Secretary of Homeland Security. The Bush administration has selected Sherwood to create and manage a new (Homeland Security) website...

Sherwood currently serves as Executive Vice President and Director of Communications of the WVC3 Group, Inc., an anti-terrorism, security firm headquartered in Reston, VA...

Sherwood’s WVC3 Group apparently is benefactor of the Bush Administration with contracts in Iraq.


Also see confirmation of Sen. John Kerry’s 1971 Senate testimony here:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010507/cover.html

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Carlton Sherwood is also a Moonie. (nt)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Those bastards.
This is even worse than I imagined. Unbelievable slime piece. Just unbelievable. It worries the hell out of me. I hate those Sinclair bastards. I can't believe that they're allowed to air this naked hit piece.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Did the U.S. Commit War Crimes in Vietnam?
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 11:45 AM by G_j
these folks are in major denial about Vietnam.

--
http://www.villagevoice.com/print/issues/0438/turse.php

>From the National Archives: New proof of Vietnam War atrocities
Swift Boat Swill

by Nicholas Turse
September 21st, 2004 11:40 AM

John Kerry is being pilloried for his shocking Senate testimony 34 years ago
that many U.S. soldiers—not just a few "rogues"—were committing atrocities
against the Vietnamese. U.S. military records that were classified for
decades but are now available in the National Archives back Kerry up and put
the lie to his critics. Contrary to what those critics, including the Swift
Boat Veterans for Truth, have implied, Kerry was speaking on behalf of many
soldiers when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on
April 22, 1971, and said this:


They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut
off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned
up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians,
razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and
dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South Vietnam, in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and
very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this
country.

The archives have hundreds of files of official U.S. military investigations
of such atrocities committed by American soldiers. I've pored over those
records—which were classified for decades—for my Columbia University
dissertation and, now, this Voice article. The exact number of investigated
allegations of atrocities is unknown, as is the number of such barbaric
incidents that occurred but weren't investigated. Some war crimes, like the
Tiger Force atrocities exposed last year by The Toledo Blade, have only come
to light decades later. Others never will. But there are plentiful records
to back up Kerry's 1971 testimony point by point. Following (with the names
removed or abbreviated) are examples, directly from the archives:

..more..

-----------------

http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/PR082404.htm

/Did the U.S. Commit War Crimes in Vietnam?

DAVID MacMICHAEL, dmacm@adelphia.net

A disabled veteran of ten years active Marine Corps service in Korea,
MacMichael was a Defense Department consultant from 1965 to 1969 in
Southeast Asia. During most of that period he was attached to the office of
the Special Assistant for Counter-Insurgency at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok.
In that capacity he reviewed classified reports from the U.S. mission in
Vietnam. MacMichael said today: "Some Vietnam veterans are outraged that
presidential candidate Kerry in his 1971 Senate testimony spoke of
atrocities reportedly committed by U.S. military forces in Vietnam. There is
more than a little substance to the charge. The Toledo Blade won the 2004
Pulitzer Prize by revealing that in 1967 the 101st Airborne Division created
a 'Tiger Force' ordered to kill all Vietnamese males in Quang Ngi Province.
According to official U.S. Army records unearthed by the Blade reporters,
Tiger Force killed many hundreds of Vietnamese and, yes, soldiers of that
force did proudly ware necklaces of the ears they cut from their victims.
The Army did investigate and identified the perpetrators of the crimes but
chose not to prosecute them."
www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SRTI... >

MacMichael added: "In 1968, Colonel George S. Patton III -- son of the World
War II general -- then commanding a brigade in Vietnam, sent out Christmas
cards showing dead Vietnamese stacked up Abu Ghraib-fashion with the message
'Peace on Earth' and signed by him and his wife.... And then, of course,
there was My Lai. There, C Company of the 11th Brigade of the Americal
Division in 1967 entered that village and methodically executed between 347
and 504 of its unarmed inhabitants, men, women and children. At least 100 of
them were lined up in an irrigation ditch by Lt. William Calley and shot to
death by his GIs. The slaughter only ended when the shocked crew of an Army
helicopter gunship landed and forced C Company at gunpoint to cease and
desist. My Lai was far from an exceptional case. In fact, it might never
have come to light had not a troubled Americal Division mortarman, Tom Glen,
who had not been present, heard about it and, after rotating out of Vietnam
to the U.S., wrote to the U.S. commander in Vietnam, General Westmoreland.
His letter only mentioned My Lai as 'part of the abusive pattern that had
become routine in the Americal Division.'"


DAVID CLINE, daoudc@aol.com, www.veteransforpeace.org, www.vvaw.org,
www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html
Currently national president of Veterans for Peace and a longtime
coordinator of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Cline is a disabled combat
veteran. He said today: "After 30 years, some people are trying to whitewash
what happened in Vietnam."


S. BRIAN WILLSON, bw@brianwillson.com, www.brianwillson.com
Willson is a former Air Force captain who served in Vietnam. He said today:
"As head of a 40-man USAF combat security unit in Vietnam, I was separately
tasked to assess 'success' of targeted bombings. I discovered egregious war
crimes -- daylight terror bombings of undefended fishing and rice farming
villages resulting in mass murders and maimings of hundreds of residents.
Subsequently, in conversations with members of the 9th Infantry Division, I
heard bravado about slaughter of 11,000 'enemy' from ground operations,
though the vast majority proved to be unarmed civilians."

....more....


------------------------------------------------------

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Tiger_force_120803.htm

Tiger Force (Vietnam) Uncovered and Exposed

Witness to Vietnam atrocities never knew about investigation

THE NEW YORKER, NOVEMBER 10, 2003
Talk of the Town, p.41

<snip>
At the height of the rampage, the Tiger Force platoon was operating a few
dozen miles from a Quang Ngai hamlet that the Army called My Lai 4, and
where, in March, 1968, more than five hundred Vietnamese civilians were
massacred by a task force whose platoon leaders included William L. Calley,
Jr. The Blade quoted a law professor as stating that My Lai might have been
avoided if the senior officer corps had acted on complaints of military
brutality in Quang Ngai that had been filed by at least two soldiers. The
Blade further reported that in the early nineteen-seventies, after Calley's
conviction for the murder of twenty-two Vietnamese civilians, in March,
1971, and while the Army was publicly insisting that My Lai was an isolated
incident, senior officials in the White House and the Pentagon were provided
with periodic reports on the Tiger Force inquiry.

In fact, while the Army was conducting its internal investigation of My Lai,
it discovered that a second large massacre had taken place on the same day
in the same area, in a hamlet known as My Khe 4, but Lieutenant General
William R. Peers, who had served for more than two years in Vietnam and who
led the investigation, publicly denied that there were any other incidents.
"It was not brought out to me in the evidence," Peers told reporters at the
close of the inquiry, and he was not challenged on that assertion, even
though two Army officers who had been present at My Khe had already been
charged with war crimes. Twenty years later, the Army declassified an April,
1970, memorandum to the General responding to an article I had written about
My Lai. It noted that I did not appear to "possess any substantive
information concerning the suppression or cover-up aspects of the incident,"
but that I was being aided in my reporting by someone with access to the
official records. It concluded, "The need to terminate such assistance to
Mr. Hersh becomes increasingly important when consideration is given to the
use Mr. Hersh would make of any information he obtained concerning command
reaction and efforts of suppression."

John Dean, the former White House counsel to President Nixon, acknowledged
that he had received a series of reports from the Army on the status of
pending war-crimes investigations, including My Lai, but that they gave no
hint of the extent of the crimes. "It doesn't get to the top unless there's
a problem," he told me last month. "I had no knowledge of My Lai"-that is,
its full horror--"until it hit the press."

In war-crimes investigations, the disparity between the facts and the
military's official versions of them has repeatedly been exposed, often with
bruising consequences, by an independent press. The Blade's extraordinary
investigation of Tiger Force, however, remains all but invisible. None of
the four major television networks have picked it up (although CBS and NBC
have been in touch with the Blade), and most major newspapers have either
ignored the story or limited themselves to publishing an Associated Press
summary. In a column published on the first day of the series, Ron Royhab,
the Blade's executive editor, pointedly wrote that the decision to run the
Vietnam stories now had "nothing to do" with the current military operations
in Iraq and Afghanistan. As he told me, "We can't have this kind of
information and sit on it, because then we'd be a party to a coverup." There
is, of course, a hesitancy in time of war--and, in particular, during an
increasingly unpopular war against an entrenched guerrilla enemy, to publish
stories that could be interpreted as undermining military morale. And news
organizations instinctively debunk scoops nom their competitors, especially
those in smaller markets. It may be that others in the media are planning to
do their own Tiger Force investigations. Let's hope so. Terrible things
always happen in war, and the responsibility of the press is to do exactly
what the Blade has done-to find, verify, and publish the truth.

-Seymour M Hersh

----------------------------

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=6217

>From Vietnam to Fallujah

. by Fran Schor September 13, 2004

The recent controversy surrounding the "Swift Boat Veterans" ad challenging
John Kerry's Vietnam record and his later statements as a leader of Vietnam
Veterans against the War (VVAW) have fallen into predictable partisan
perspectives. Republicans and their media attack machine still insist that
Kerry's medals are suspect and his VVAW activities were treasonous. Kerry
and the Democrats, in turn, have found further documentary evidence and
eye-witness accounts to support his version of the Vietnam incidents. As far
as Kerry's 1971 testimony about US atrocities in Vietnam, Kerry has
reiterated that he was just recounting reports from the Winter Soldier
Investigations. In addition, he tried earlier to deflect criticism of his
VVAW positions by claiming that some of his statements were overzealous and
part of the heated rhetoric of the times. In effect, the Bush Administration
and Republicans have tried to deny that atrocities took place while Kerry
and the Democrats have tried to minimize or marginalize them.

For those who have studied the historical record of the US prosecution of
the war in Southeast Asia, neither the Republicans nor Democrats have
confronted the full measure of those atrocities and what their legacy is
especially in the war on Iraq. While most studies of the war in Southeast
Asia acknowledge that 4 times the tonnage of bombs was dropped on Vietnam,
Cambodia, and Laos than that used by the US in all theaters of operation
during World War II, only a few, such as James William Gibson's The Perfect
War: Technowar in Vietnam, analyze the full extent of such bombing. Not only
were thousands of villages in Vietnam totally destroyed, but massive
civilian deaths, numbering close to 3 million, resulted in large part from
such indiscriminate bombing. Integral to the bombing strategy was the use of
weapons that violated international law, such as napalm and anti-personnel
fragmentation bombs. As a result of establishing free-fire zones where
anything and everything could be attacked, including hospitals, US military
operations led to the deliberate murder of mostly civilians.

While Rumsfeld and the Pentagon have touted the "clean" weapons used in
Iraq, the fact is that aerial cluster bombs and free-fire zones have
continued to be part of present day military operations. Villages throughout
Iraq, from Hilla to Fallujah, have borne and are bearing US attacks that
take a heavy civilian toll. Occasionally, criticisms of the type of ordnance
used in Iraq found its way into the mainstream press, especially when
left-over cluster bomblets looking like yellow food packages blow up in
children's hands or depleted uranium weapons are dropped inadvertently on
British soldiers. However, questions about the immorality of "shock and awe"
bombing strategy have been buried deeper than any of the cluster bomblets.

In Vietnam, a primary ground war tactic was the "search and destroy" mission
with its over-inflated body counts. As Christian Appy forcefully
demonstrated in Working Class War: American Combat Soldiers and Vietnam,
such tactics were guaranteed to produce atrocities. Any revealing personal
account of the war in Vietnam, such as Ron Kovic's Born on the Fourth of
July, underscores how those atrocities took their toll on civilians and US
soldiers, like Kovic. Of course, certain high-profile atrocities, such as My
Lai, achieved prominent media coverage (almost, however, a year after the
incident.) Nonetheless, My Lai was seen either as an aberration and not part
of murderous campaigns such as the Phoenix program with its thousands of
assassinations or a result of a few bad apples, like a Lt. Calley, who
nonetheless received minor punishment for his command of the massacre of
hundreds of women and children. Moreover, as reported in Tom Engelhardt's
The End of Victory Culture, "65% of Americans claimed not to be upset by the
massacre" (224). Is it, therefore, not surprising that Noam Chomsky asserted
during this period that the US had to undergo some sort of de- nazification
in order to regain some moral sensitivity to what US war policy had produced
in Vietnam


..more..
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Thanks for posting this
I remember the Sy Hersh article. I understand how hx gets written and rewritten, particularly when confronted with atrocities in war. Those who participated, who witnessed or who knew have trouble living consciously with this terrible knowledge.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick -- Too important to drop off
Republican hit "journalism" needs to be exposed to the harsh light of day.

Read through the responses on Kos.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. kick..
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here's what I am wondering about.
I don't have Sinclair station here.

Are they running 'promos' for the show??? With clips???? Short lie-bites all day, every day??????????

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