Kerry and VVAW's 1970 Meeting with North Vietnam and NLF Peace Delegation

[NNguyenMD]

Can anyone tell me the substance of what transpired during John Kerry's meeting with North Vietnamese and NLF officials in Paris on 1970? His testimony before the foreign relations committee only discussed a snippet of what went on.

All I can find online are freeper interpretations of what happened, www.vvaw.org doesn't have anything on its page that talks about the meeting much.

I think it was an attempt by VVAW members to get the North Vietnamese on the record, so that they could be held to the specific terms in which they would agree to a peaceful US withdrawal and release of US POWs. I'm not a journalist or journalism student, maybe someone can give me some pointers on how to get proper research evidence for this kind of stuff. I know that Freepers will be circulating half-truths about this incident with the showing of that awful "news" piece on the sinclair stations tonight. But I know it will be a distortion of the truth, and I'd like to hear what VVAW members and Kerry had to say about that meeting.

[sangh0]

1. Try Google

I find it hard to believe that Google searches only turned up VVAW. I've done searches myself and they turned up much more.

Just FYI - DU has seen many people come here with the intention to disrupt by posting an "innocent" sounding question which slanders Kerry. The disruptors often defend themselves by claiming it's "constructive" criticism.

I'm not a journalist or journalism student, maybe someone can give me some pointers on how to get proper research evidence for this kind of stuff.

Again, try Google. It's not complicated. You type some words into it and it searches for them.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

5. Relax?

Please re-read my post. I used no derogatory terms. COmpare that to how you accuse me of being "paranoid", when it's a FACT that such innocent questions often arouse a great deal of suspicion on DU.

I went to Google and entered -"war crimes" Kerry Congress- as the search terms, and the very first link it found was :
http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

That link brings you to the testimony the Kerry gave to Congress, which you can read for yourself to see what actually happened.

Independent and first time voters don't know about a lot of this stuff, and when their freeper friends spew out lies, we have to be ready to defend Kerry.

Being ready means knowing how to do some basic research. As you can see, it's not very hard to find the original information.

[sangh0]

6. And here's video of the testimony

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6579.htm

It was the 8th link on the list Google found.

[sangh0]

7. Here's something from the Kerry website

I searched for Viet Nam, and came up with this so far:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0506b.html

John Kerry Responds To Personal Attack Campaign, Iraqi Prisoner Abuse, Diversity Outreach and Tax Relief on "Tavis Smiley" To Air Tonight On PBS ...

ON PERSONAL ATTACK CAMPAIGNING AND WAR RECORDS: "I'm proud of what I did fighting for my country. I'm proud of what I did to stand up against Richard Nixon and the war when I came back to America. And I'm very proud of what I did fighting for veterans, particularly I might add for minority veterans in America who really got the short end of the stick. Tavis, I must tell you that I expect to be ruthlessly attacked by these guys because that's what they do. They did it to John McCain, a prisoner of war in Viet Nam, they attacked him ruthlessly in South Carolina. They attacked Max Clelland, who lost three limbs in Vietnam. They attacked and challenged his patriotism. You know what, Americans want a leader that can put people back to work, make America fair, give people healthcare, fix our schools. They can't talk about. I will. That's what this race is about."

[sangh0]

8. more

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2004_0729.html

Shortly after Kerry's return, he heard of a fellow skipper's death. His friend Donald Droz had been wounded, and while crewmates radioed for help -- "I need a medevac!" -- he bled to death. Droz left behind a widow and a 3-month-old girl. Kerry's outrage prompted the most difficult decision of his life, he said. Despite his military upbringing, Kerry decided to protest the war.

"Donnie was the catalyst," Kerry said. "I thought, 'I gotta get off my butt.' I owed Dick and Donnie."

Kerry understood that speaking out might make him famous, but at a time when many Americans supported the war it also might complicate his political ambitions. "I asked him, 'Do you think that's wise?' " his brother recalled. "He said, 'It's something I have to do.' "

In April 1971, Kerry led a Vietnam Veterans Against the War march in Washington. Dressed in green fatigues, he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Accounts have focused on his recounting of war atrocities, but the real heat in his delivery came when he condemned the government for abandoning them: "We are also here to ask, and are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? . . . We are here to ask, where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric and so many others? . . . These are commanders who have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of war." Kerry added: "This administration has done us the ultimate dishonor. They have attempted to disown us."

It was a long way from his graduation speech. "The difference between the Yale commencement and the Senate Foreign Relations speech is that they're both critical of U.S. policy in Vietnam, but Yale is a political science student and Washington is a visceral outcry," Cam Kerry said.

[sangh0]

10. more

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2004_0819.html

Records Counter a Critic of Kerry
Fellow Skipper's Citation Refers To Enemy Fire

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

As one of five Swift boat skippers who led the raid up the Bay Hap River, Thurlow was a direct participant in the disputed events. He is also a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans dismayed by Kerry's subsequent antiwar activities, which has aired a controversial television advertisement attacking his war record....

[sangh0]

12. more

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0819.html

Kerry-Edwards Campaign Debunks False Swift Boat Attacks; Sets the Record Straight With New Ad
Former Green Beret, Lt. Jim Rassmann: “When he pulled me out of the river, he risked his life to save mine.”

Washington, DC - In response to the false and dishonest attack ad from Republican supporters of President Bush, the Kerry-Edwards campaign released a new television ad to set the record straight, featuring former Green Beret Lt. Jim Rassmann testifying to John Kerry's heroic and honorable service in Vietnam. In the ad, long-time registered Republican, former Lt. Jim Rassmann relives his experience on the Mekong Delta in Vietnam the day that Lt. John Kerry saved his life. The 30-second spot, “Rassmann,” is airing in the states where the false claims were first aired, including Ohio, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

John Kerry served two tours of duty during Vietnam, during which he was awarded three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star with Combat V and a Silver Star. The Republican attack group that has produced the false negative assault on John Kerry’s service isn’t interested in the truth. The truth is that official United States Navy reports document John Kerry’s service in Vietnam, and these Republicans, with help from the Bush attack machine’s biggest patrons, have attacked the integrity of the United States Navy itself and all who served on the Swift Boats. ...

[NNguyenMD]

14. Already seen it

I've already been to that link. And its not the complete testimony that includes Kerry talking about his meeting with the North Vietnamese government in paris, its a partial copy of Kerry's 1971 testimony to the foreign relations committee, and it doesn't even have the exerpt on his meeting with the North Vietnamese.

I've already read the full testimony and read the exerpts about the paris meeting and its not a lot, what I was looking for was an explanation by Kerry and VVAW members outside the context of his testimony to the foreign relations committee later on.

here's a full transcript of the two hour testimony from National Review online.

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

Thanks for trying though, sorry for overreacting about the insinuation thing, you were just trying to give a fair warning about asking these kinds of questions on this kind of forum, and I appreciate that.

[sangh0]

17. I'm not clear on what you're looking for

what I was looking for was an explanation by Kerry and VVAW members outside the context of his testimony to the foreign relations committee later on

I don't what "outside the context of his testimony" means. You are looking for info about *what* exactly? His talking to the NV in Paris?

Search for -Kerry Paris North-

I bet that brings it up

[sangh0]

18. here's one

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/25/kerry_spoke_of_meeting_negotiators_on_vietnam/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39744-2004Sep21.html

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/09/swiftvets_sixth.html

[NNguyenMD]

20. That clears up everything...

Thanks sangh0, sorry that I came across as a jerk in the begining, that was my fault, I'm new to this post thing. But I think I can rest easy tonight. Though I'd feel alot better having a more tighter argument about Kerry's fact finding mission in Paris in 1970 against the anti-Kerry swift boat nuts when or if they bring this up.

[sangh0]

22. No, you weren't a jerk

You acted like everyone who comes here with a question.

Some of them don't know what's going on around here because they're new to DU. And some of them do know but act like they don't so they can disrupt us. Either way, it's hard to tell them apart because they behave the same way. Only time tells if they're sincere.

Though I'd feel alot better having a more tighter argument about Kerry's fact finding mission in Paris in 1970 against the anti-Kerry swift boat nuts when or if they bring this up.

Then here's some advice you should NEVER forget about debating freepers:


MAKE THEM PROVE IT!!!

If they make any claims -about Kerry, liberal, democrats, the weather, the time, I dont care what it is- MAKE THEM PROVE IT!!

You are not under any obligation to prove Kerry did nothing wrong. They are obligated to provide proof for their claims. Just ask them for proof, and when they can't produce, accuse them of lying. Make sure you use the LIE word over and over again. Get them mad, so they look unreasonable which will taint their accusations and make them look like the loonies they are.

And stop worrying about your having to prove anything. The facts are on our side.

[still_one]

2. who cares about what happened 30 years ago

the fate of our country is TODAY

[NNguyenMD]

4. It shouldn't matter but...

In the court of public opinion is actually matter a whole lot. If in 1988 people were quick to dump Micahel Dukakis for a racist Wilie Horton ad, imagine what will happen to Kerry if they run with something like this for the rest of the election without any proper response from us?

You're right, it does not matter for the future of the country what happened 30 years ago, but we have to be able to counter thus kinds of accusations with truth and defend our candidate. Kerry's testimony before the senate foreign relations committee is something we all should be very proud of, but at the same time we have to be ready to defend whatever they throw at us about it. Including accusations of treason.

[auburngrad82]

11. All of this has been gone over many times

If there was anything substantial that the right-wingers could use, they would have already done so. If the Nixon administration couldn't find anything, then I would doubt that there will be anything coming out of it now.

The only thing the right-wingers have been able to do in regards to Kerry and Vietnam is invent a bunch of bullshit (Swift Boat Liars) and try to enrage veterans (Kerry and Fonda).

I wouldn't worry about this.

[WoodrowFan]

9. here you go

I looked for VVAW and PARIS and finally, on the 11th page of results in Google, found this. Whew, you're right, the first 10 pages were almost all RW crap.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200409020010

[NYCGirl]

13. And here's an article from the Washington Post:

Excerpt:
The group, whose members served in the Navy at the same time as Kerry, is referring to a meeting Kerry had in early 1971 with leaders of the communist delegation that was negotiating with U.S. representatives at the Paris peace talks. The meeting, however, was not a secret. Kerry, a leading antiwar activist at the time, mentioned it in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April of that year. "I have been to Paris," he testified. "I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Provisional Revolutionary Government," the latter a South Vietnamese communist group with ties to the Viet Cong.

Kerry's campaign said earlier this year that he met on the trip with Nguyen Thi Binh, then foreign minister of the PRG and a top negotiator at the talks. Kerry acknowledged in that testimony that even going to the peace talks as a private citizen was at the "borderline" of what was permissible under U.S. law, which forbids citizens from negotiating treaties with foreign governments. But his campaign said he never engaged in negotiations or attended any formal sessions of the talks

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39744-2004Sep21.html

[NNguyenMD]

15. THANKS!!!

That was what I was looking for!! I appreciate the help with the research =) thanks again.

[NNguyenMD]

16. appreciate it

Thanks WoodrowFan, I appreciate your time and help.

[TahitiNut]

19. Well, we know where Kerry was in 1970. Where was George in 1972???

Vietnam Veteran Kerry was on his honeymoon in Paris with his wife, Julia.
CoWard Bush* was AWOL and snorting coke with his butt-buddy, James Bath.


I'll take Kerry.

[NNguyenMD]

21. So I think I've got an answer now...

"Senator Kerry had no role whatsoever in the Paris peace talks or negotiations," Meehan said in his statement. "He did not engage in any negotiations and did not attend any session of the talks. Prior to his Senate testimony, he went to Paris on a private trip, where he had one brief meeting with Madam Binh and others. In an effort to find facts, he learned the status of the peace talks from their point of view and about any progress in resolving the conflict, particularly as it related to the fate of the POWs."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/25/kerry_spoke_of_meeting_negotiators_on_vietnam/

This should effectively shoot down the accusation that Kerry violated the Logan act when he spoke with North Vietnamese and NLF officials. Hopefully the voters will understand the distinction.

Thanks sangh0 for help with web researching

I very new to talking about this kind of stuff in an online forum format, so I didn't mean to offend anyone or install and more doubt to Kerry's record. As I said many times before, his role in VVAW and testifying before the foreign relations committee is a story that we should all be very proud of. He provided real leadership to our troops at a time when they were being lied to, used, and screwed by the bureacrats in the Pentagon and military. We should be grateful to be running a candidate with such an astounding record for defending his country and fellow veterans.