HereÕs a brilliant point Ted Koppel made last night.

[soundfury]

If you saw Nightline last night, Ted Koppel said 3,000 people died from terrorism on 911; however, 36,000 people die from the flu EVERY year.

WeÕve spent billions on combating terrorism so we wonÕt have to fight it here blah, blah, blah.

Yet, we are unwilling to pay for the production of the flu vaccine?

DiscussÉ

[Atman]

1. What's to discuss?

Koppel is right, and Bush is a total failure.

[porphyrian]

2. Those are poor and old people...

...so the media doesn't care about them. Since the media doesn't care about them, the apathetic populace doesn't hear about it, and they can spend their time on more important things, like watching the latest incarnation of Survivor and figuring out which fast food they want to eat. Since 9/11 could not be ignored by the media, the ruling administration co-opted it to meet its own ends, using the media to feed directives and suggestions to the apathetic public.

If Brad Pitt died from the flu, there would be public outrage that couldn't be ignored, the media would flog the story to death, the current administration would be forced to give it lip service, and a number of American corporations would see profit in producing flu vaccinations for the newly-created consumers. Still, no one would care about the poor and the old.

That said, I hope Brad Pitt doesn't die from the flu. I don't know him, but I'd probably like him.

[prayin4rain]

3. Jeez putting it in that light makes it even more depressing...especially

for the poor 18 year olds crawling around the desert looking for what was it flu vaccines? No...WMD? No...Al Queda? No...ah yes freedom? Poor Iraqis too, awful.

[dave123williams]

4. Sure; 6000 people a DAY die of communicable disease in Africa.

Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it.

I'm so sick of these guys invoking 9/11 to justify every bad decision they make.

[librechik]

5. incompetence incompetence incompetence

IHT reports we are the ONLY major country that doesn't have enough flu vaccine.

[Atman]

6. Actually...

Koppel had several good points, but another salient observation.

Bush repeatedly attacks Kerry's health care plan as involving health care "rationing." Except, that is EXACTLY what Bush is doing now wiht the flu vaccine. That is EXACTLY what happens, and what must happen, when there is not enough of a certain commodity to satisfy the demand for it. BUSH is already rationing, but his handlers are at least smart enough not to call it that.

More pig lipstick from your friends at BushCo.

[Ranec]

7. I'm not sure these comparisons are necessarily valid.

We can't ignore the fact that 9/11 was horrible and addressing terrorism is a key goal for anyone leading this country. Kerry has a better, smarter, even more sensitive plan for fighting terrorism.

Besides,10 years ago I don't remember any talk about flu vaccines. I think the crisis is somewhat self-propelled. Breathless reports on the news drive people to stand in long lines.

That being said, I agree that if market forces are preventing companies from producing the vaccine, then it is right and proper for the government to step in and provide this service. I feel the same way about other vaccines. This should be part of the mandate of NIH.

The evidence is strongly that the administration new this was coming, and decided to have faith and hope for the best rather than try to develop a contingency plan. Great work W!

[Bridget Burke]

8. Obviously, you did not have an immune-compromised relative...

ten years ago. I did & she got flu shots every year. One old gentleman standing in line here in Houston was concerned about getting really sick. He was fairly healthy & living independently but a bout of pneumonia & a long hospital stay might make an end to that. Even if he lived, he'd be more likely to need assisted living--and he wanted to avoid it.

Most of the people in the long lines really need the vaccine. I'm glad you've avoided knowing anybody dealing with illness and/or old age. It's really a drag.

[wildflower]

13. I believe Ranec's point is that...

if the government hadn't announced this flu shot shortage, there wouldn't be the long lines of people - including many healthy ones - panicked about a flu shot.

Because in years past, health providers in the media practically had to beg people to go out and get flu shots; many Americans just weren't very worried about it.

Right before the shortage was announced, I remember a doctor appearing on a morning news show, saying they were going to really start pushing for everyone to get flu vaccines, as a routine.

He wanted the public to realize it was serious. Because a lot of people just weren't doing it.

Then, when the shortage was announced, it seemed that everyone was suddenly worried.

Ranec making this point doesn't mean he hasn't known or taken care of sick people. I agree with his point, and I am speaking as an ill person who has also taken care of ill people. Last year I was very worried about the flu shot for someone in my care, but he wasn't concerned and didn't want the shot.

-wildflower

[Booster]

14. None of you may be old enough to remember when the

government was giving flu shots to the elderly and hundreds died from the shot itself. Did that stop the government from continuing the program? Hell, no, they kept right on giving those shots. I'll always believe that that fiasco was to thin the herd of the elderly. It reminded me of Jonestown; people dying by the hundreds from the shot, yet old people lining up the get the shot. I'm beginning to think we've been a sick society for a very long time.

[northzax]

9. well, it was only 8 or so years ago

that the FDA officially recommended the flu shot for people. It saves thousands of lives a year. It is believed that within five years, the FDA will reccomend Flu shots for everyone. But to be honest, if you are healthy, between ten and fifty and don't work with the infirm, children, the elderly or anyone with a supressed immune system, you don't really need the flu shot. Sure, the flu sucks, but it most likely won't actually kill you. Anyone in those other groups actually has a pretty good chance of dying from the flu.

[htuttle]

11. It's not just people at risk of dying from the flu, it's also flu vectors

Lots of people come into contact with hundreds of vulnerable people everyday, like taxi drivers, teachers, nurses, etc...

This is the first year since they started giving the vaccine that most of those people will not be able to get a shot. That means they will spread it to hundreds of other people they come into contact with, who will in turn spread it to others, etc...

I've been in the taxi business for 15+ years and got a flu shot every year since they started giving them. However, this year we were told our drivers couldn't get their flu shots. Since taxi drivers don't make money unless they work, I can guarantee you that we will have a bunch of sick drivers working this winter. I can also guarantee that they will end up getting a lot of passengers sick with the flu after sitting with them in a closed up cab.

Same goes for any of the other groups considered likely disease vectors -- like people working in fast food restaurants (who can't afford to take days off, either), grade school teachers, bus drivers, airline flight attendants, etc... None of those groups are going to get shots this year.

If the flu hits hard this year, it will end up spreading far, far faster and wider than it has in the past.

[soundfury]

12. Flu Hype vs Terrorism Hype

{ { {Besides,10 years ago I don't remember any talk about flu vaccines. I think the crisis is somewhat self-propelled. Breathless reports on the news drive people to stand in long lines.} } }

I agree with you that there has been a lot of hype surrounding the flu vaccines but when
you compare the number of deaths created by terrorism to the number of deaths created by the flu,
itÕs clear that the flu is more of a danger to the public safety (in terms of deaths) than terrorism.

[drunkdriver-in-chief]

10. Same can be said about guns and cars

32,000 americans are killed by guns each year though half those are suicides and should be ignored. 42,000 are killed by cars and that is really inexcusable since we know how to stop that.