Should we stop patronizing Republican businesses?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

Today I found out, to my dismay, that my veterinarian is one of THEM -- went to the clinic, saw his car out back with a big ol' "W" sticker on it. He's been my vet for seven cats over 25 years, and he's excellent, but it's hard for me to pay money to anybody who, in effect, wants to screw my country up the butt for the next four years. And you have to be pretty smart to get through vet school, so how on earth can he support El Arbusto Stupido? I don't want to switch vets after all this time. Anybody else thinking of not doing business with somebody on account of their politics?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

1. Gee, I don't know of any non-republican businesses.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Lots of small business owners are Democrats.

I used to be one myself. You don't have to be a Republican to run a business -- my question is, if the business is otherwise doing a good job for you, is it justifiable to dump them if you don't like their politics?

[sleepyhead]

22. I am a small business owner

As is my stepmother, and we are both dyed-in-the-wool bleeding heart liberal Democrats. I go out of my way to support local businesses, especially if they are owned and staffed by Democrats.

I have walked out of at least 2 restaurants that advertised "Freedom Fries" on the menu and have told the staff why. I also walk out of any business with "support the troops/support Bush" stickers and ribbons.

[NNadir]

80. I make rabid/neutral distinctions. I buy BP gas and not Exxon because

BP has acknowledged the existance of Global Warming and Exxon is run by mad right wing Ostrich 'Pukes.

(I wish I could do without gasoline all together, but I can't.)

[UNIXcock]

25. boatloads of Republican business owners here, nearly impossible to ...

... completely avoid them

... I have noted something positive though - many won't put * stickers on their vehicles :-)

[chaska]

2. When did we ever?

[Free2BMe]

3. Am taking account of advertising during Stolen Honor...Rochester, NY..

FOX channel...then blitz the news with names...

[lilymidnite]

4. I think it depends

For me, if my vet had been good for many years, probably no.
But I recently overheard a knitting store owner talking about Martha Stewart. She said, "I don't know, the Clintons can lie and lie, and get away with it ..."

I put my unpurchased yarn down, and walked out, never to return.

[demigoddess]

19. i feel the same

Have not touched walmart or home depot in ages and some others that push repubs

[sir_captain]

6. I'm not sure if it's a good idea

This is essentially a form of blacklisting, and I think it really leads down a slippery slope rather quickly. The fact of the matter is whether or not we agree with them, people are allowed to have their own opinions about the state of the world--and that's the way it should be. Not all Republicans are bad people, some Democrats, sadly, are. I think you should just live your life and judge people on an individual basis. If your vet is doing a good job and you've known him for so long, I don't think you should switch on the basis of his politics unless he's trying to force them down your (or your cats') throats.

[Roachman]

11. I disagree

Slippery slope arguments are notiorously bad. There is a clear distinction between not giving someone your money because you completely disagree with their politics and trying to destroy people because you disagree with their politics. You have no obligation to shop with Republicans, though it might not be a good idea for you to set out to destroy their business by telling friends and picketing. Like them, we should see our money as granting us the right to spend it like we please. Money is speech in this country and I wouldn't want to knowingly give it to someone I totally disagreed with if I didn't have to.

[Yogi]

18. I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Number 1 reason I don't shop at Walmart, I don't like there politics.
I would tell him why I was changing vets too.

[humanbeing]

78. it's NOT blacklisting...

it's called boycott. Blacklisting is usually applied, I believe, to the action when performed by the big institutions or businesses that have all the cards in their hands. This really isn't the case.

When we decided to boycott Sinclair advertisers, that's exactly what it was: boycott, not blacklisting. I admit it's perhaps a niggling semantic difference here, but if you think it's alright to boycott a Sinclair advertiser, then the difference between that and choosing not to do business with a Bush supporters is, in my opinion nearly nil.

In a capitalist society, transactions are made of the consumer's own free will, for whatever reason the consumer feels like it. IF you can walk out of a restaurant because you didn't like the color of the counter, then you sure can walk out of a vet's office because of their support for something you think is terrible for the country.

[jean]

7. it's one thing to be a repub - but to whole heartedly support W04

really is derelict.

[DURHAM D]

8. I went to Staples for a few office supplies this past Wednesday.

At the check out stand they had several pro-Bush books for sell. No Kerry or Democratic books. I spoke with the clerks and then the manager and told them I could buy office supplies elsewhere if they did not add books from the other side. The manager told me I was not the first person to complain and she would pass it along.

When she said I was not the first I told her I would never return.

[yardwork]

36. Your story indicates that Staples dictated the book placement

from central management. Either the store manager was lying, or she just told you that she has no control over product placement in her store. Think about what that means!

[Marxdem]

82. I hope it works but I doubt it

They make more $$ off of Shrubs tax cuts then your business. Expect the books to remain.

[Philostopher]

9. Some will hammer you for this, but ...

Mr. Nownow and I have done this, as well. To each his own, I say -- if it makes you feel better, by all means do it. If it makes you feel bad to give the guy your money, it's worth considering -- though I don't know what I'd do if I found out the vets at our clinic felt compelled to advertise their politics so obviously. Probably start looking, actually.

A local family-owned Italian restaurant had one of those "we support the troops and President Bush" signs up last fall. We didn't go there often, but once in a while we stopped by if we were looking to drop a few bills for a special occasion, like a birthday or an anniversary. Their sign put a stop to that. Restaurants, especially, are discretionary purchases -- if somebody feels compelled to tell me that about their politics, I feel like it's my right to elect not to give them my money.

For the most part, my neighborhood is pretty evenly divided -- most businesses have the good sense not to advertise their political affiliations either way, which is fine by me. I don't want to know that, since knowing it may mean I don't want to give them money to send to the RNC. If they feel compelled to shove it in my face, I feel compelled to withdraw my checkbook.

[Edwardsgroupie]

21. Businesses are stupid to advertise their political preferences, IMHO.

They are sure to offend some of their current or potential customers.

[friesianrider]

10. I do...

There are a few businesses out here that have W signs outside their businesses. I made mental notes of them and won't go there. One store even regularly played Limpbutt instead of music throughout the store.

I will take my money elsewhere. They can think what they want, but forcing me to see their Bush signs and listen to their Nazi commentators while I'm shopping...nah, thanks.

[kcwayne]

12. Yes, we should

The only power we wield in this country is the power of our discrentionary spending. The business infrastructure is utterly dependendant on EVERYONE spending. Only when the repukes start seeing that their ideology is translating directly to worse performance on the bottom line will they start being more aware that we live in a nation, not an ideology.

I would recommend that you write your vet a letter that says while you appreciate the fine service he/she has done for your pets, you are more comfortable in giving your business to someone who shares your values about the need for an intelligent government that will not endanger your future with its extraordinarily harmful policies.

[WLKjr]

13. a music instrument store I used to go to

are republicans. and they put a b/c sign out in front. don't see many people going in now, including myself.

[Lovecrafty]

14. I've been doing that for years!

I aggressively seek out Liberal and Democratic buisnesses exclusively. Upon finding out a buisness is owned or operated by Republicans, I will leave immediately. I have even left a resteraunt in the middle of a meal after overhearing the owner praise Bush behind the counter! I paid my tab, of course, but will never return to "Huck's Catfish" in Denison,Texas (repeat: HUCK'S CATFISH)for the rest of my life.

I urge all liberals to do the same. Just drive on past a buisness with a Bush/Cheney sign on it! And once you discover a Democrat owned establishment BE LOYAL! Tell your friends and get them all the buisness you can!

Seems the only way these Neo-Cons feel is in the pocketbook! They're lifeless otherwise and empty inside! EXPLOIT that! All it takes is a coordinated boycott and DU is the place to start!!

[Sugarbleus]

17. Wow, didn't read your post before I added mine. I was just going

to suggest the same thing. BOYCOTT enmasse. Money Talks

Just today we had to purchase a new tv for hubby :eyes:. We PURPOSELY avoided Circuit City right down the street because of their support of Sinclair Broadcasting. It's EASY to find a different place to do business or buy substitute products. I'm digging this idea. :bounce:

[Ladyhawk]

49. Send the receipt to Circuit City. :) nt

[Sugarbleus]

63. Whoaaa, Good idea!! LOL eom

[Sugarbleus]

15. I won't give business to people who are RABIDLY RW

If the doctor, lawyer, vet or whatever is decent to me and doesn't rant about Bush in my presence...then I am okay.

However, there are those professionals that have a "slant" in terms of "how" they deal with you; like a lawyer or doctor etc. They are not always working in your best interest. I decided some months ago to stop, when I can, doing business with anyone I suspect of being extremely conservative/RW.

My daughter, for example, had to go through a custody hearing and it turned out her lawyer was very conservative and misogynist...he was the most difficult person to work with..rude to her and to me, barely did his job, dragged his feet in getting any work done, "forgot" stuff. It was a mess. We have not paid him. She BARELY won anything in this case and she had soooooooooo much evidence et al.

A Doc that hubby sees is rabidly conservative. He has the power to NOT refer hubby to a specialist if the doc "doesn't want to". The docs politics are NO TAXES and screw the poor. Sending hubby would mean the state would have to help pay for the extra service. Hubby uses Medicaid (behind his physical disability) Nonetheless, this doc wouldn't move off the dime for anyone he deems too liberal. It's a scandal and an outrage!!

Additionally (lately) I've decided NOT to purchase anything from companies that support the RW in significant ways. To wit, General Mills for their part in Sinclair Broadcasting fiasco.
SCREW THESE MONSTERS!!

[yardwork]

40. If your husband's doc is making decisions based on ideology

then he may be guilty of medical malpractice. I suggest that you gather evidence and write a letter to your state board of medical examiners. You can find their address on the web.

This is what bushco means when they talk about "tort reform" and stopping "frivolous lawsuits." They want medical providers to be able to deny services to people based on ideology and get away with it.

Exercise your rights as an America. Report medical malpractice to your state board of medical examiners!

[Sugarbleus]

43. WOW!!!!!!!!........It honestly never occured to me!

OMG.....this is just too sweet. *banging head on keyboard*


Did I mention that hubby uses Medicaid? That is a very limiting health service provider in and of itself. Do you suppose we can still report this doc even though hubby uses state insurance?

Hurry up Nov. 2....we need Kerry's new health plans PDQ.

[eridani]

56. We need real UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PDQ

The Kerry plan acceptable only as a consolation prize.

[Sugarbleus]

59. Hear that.

Still, it's a "step" in the right direction. Maybe just MAYBE we can go forward from there and, before I die, finally see a REAL SMART EFFECTIVE QUALITY Healthcare plan for ALL.. each.. every..the entire population || Cheap or free!||

[eridani]

66. Ask for the pony before settling for the kitten--

--I mean this. Let's go whole hog after what we really want, hard. If we don't get it, then the consolation prize will help some.

[Sugarbleus]

75. That sounds good. I hope DU stays up after elections so

I/we can continue with these efforts (organize/brainstorm). I can't do it alone. :thumbsup:

[Blue Wally]

83. Cheap or free??

"Still, it's a "step" in the right direction. Maybe just MAYBE we can go forward from there and, before I die, finally see a REAL SMART EFFECTIVE QUALITY Healthcare plan for ALL.. each.. every..the entire population || Cheap or free!||"

Cheap or free to whom??

Are you going to draft the doctors/nurses and pay them room and board and pocket money only?? Somewheres the money has to be paid.

You can have something good, cheap, or responsive. You can opnly get two of the three. You always lose the third. If medical care is cheap and good, the lines will be so long it will not be responsive. If you want good and responsive medical care for all, it will not be cheap!!

[atre]

50. A conservative family law lawyer?

Wow. Don't think I've ever met one of those.

[Sugarbleus]

79. We live in Calif. The case was in Eastern Idaho................*ahem*

Strong Mormon country there.
We had to hire one from that state. It was a nightmare. Plus the courts along with this lawyer/firm screwed up the paperwork royally...The right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. A total EXPENSIVE mess.

[B Calm]

16. A restaurant (I use to eat at occasionally) displayed pictures

of George and his stepford wife. The last time I went to the cash register to pay for our meal, the owner asked me how was my meal? I told him the food was ok, but now I think I'm about ready to puke. Then I explained why I was feeling ill and I told him we'll never be back! That was 3 1/2 years ago and we haven't been back.

My insurance carrier lost the coverage of my home, my farm, all my vehicles, and even my boat because he was playing Rush Limbaugh in his office building.

[Edwardsgroupie]

20. Is it really worthwhile to dissociate from everyone whose politics differ?

Think how many people you have known and liked who turned out to be Republican and you didn't know it previously. There are nice and good people of both political parties. I don't think it is beneficial to decide we will only deal with those who share our politics. It would cut out a lot of current or potential friends.

[BeFree]

23. Friends?!?!?

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Publickers want to take away your right to sue. They want an imperial America, the minorities in their "place", a 23% sales tax, overtime pay eliminated, no minimum wage, and a bible in every childs hand.

They'd do away with a woman's right to chose what she will do with her own body, institute across the board death penalties, and increase an already bloated military budget.

These people can never be friends, really. They just want to use you for their own ends.

You'd think an Edward's Groupie would know these things, eh?

[Edwardsgroupie]

27. You need to see the good in people

The people you are describing are the rabid RWers, of which there are relatively few.

If you are searching for ways to disagree with people, you're sure to find them.

[AlCzervik]

28. I can see the good in people

but i dont need to buy things from them.

[BeFree]

34. Good republickers?

They get good when they turn away from the puke party.

You say that my summation was a sign of the rabid pukers. But the reality is that it pretty well matches the puke's platform. Now, if you think all piglickers are rabid, then we agree!

[sangh0]

29. You need to see what was actually posted

No one said anything about DISASSOCIATING from EVERYONE.

We're just not going to give our money to republicans. If they're stupid enough to use their business for politics, then I'm smart enough to go somewhere else.

[Edwardsgroupie]

31. I responded to BeFree's post

When a post is directly under and slightly indented from another post, it is a response to that post. See how it works?

[sangh0]

32. Where did anyone say anything about "disassociating from everyone"?

I noticed you didn't address the substance of my post.

[Edwardsgroupie]

37. Take a look at some of the posts on here

This BeFree person here doesn't seem to think anyone who has ever voted GOP is worthy of air to breathe.

[sangh0]

39. that was AFTER YOU brought it up

Can you show me the post that led you to say someone was advocating "disassociating from everyone"? Posts that came later don't justify what you said earlier.

Straw men and exageration are flame bait.

[BeFree]

45. They can breathe free

But not for long. None of us will be able to breathe the way the air pollution is increasing.

Which brings up another point pukes are for, and why we shouldn't be nice to them. They want to let air polluters be free to pollute.

Look, groupie, the pukes helped pass the clean air act and the clean water act three decades ago, but since then they have become the enemy of the environment. Them's the facts.

[yardwork]

42. Not meaning to be unfriendly, but....

You are a new poster here, just joined the second week of October. Your tagline indicates that you don't support Kerry for President, and you're telling other people how to post and taking people to task.

You might want to consider reading here a little longer and getting to know DU before you jump in and start criticising people for their posting styles.

Further, it is a stated rule of DU that we all support Kerry for President. You might want to rethink your tagline.

[Berserker]

47. Have you really seen

or know of a good RW? Please explain. I need to know because I am so pissed right now.

[sangh0]

24. An excellent question!!

That's why I tell the shopkeepers in my area who put signs in their windows that if their going to use their business for politics, I'm going to use my money in another business.

I still talk to them when I see them on the streets.

[SoCalDem]

53. Key phrase from your post..."...and you didn't know it ..."

When a business person goes out of their way to TELL YOU their politics, it's as if they are sending you a warning signal.. If you choose to ignore it and continue to support them, that's one thing....but when they tell you that they love Rush & George & Laura, they are showing you who they really are :)..and where they send their contribution money

Buyer beware :)

[leftofthedial]

26. I plan to make every repuke I encounter for the rest of my life

pay

[TexasLady]

30. we are a business

computer repair... ninety percent of the people we deal with are repukes here in texas...nothing we can do about it...HOWEVER>>>

there is this guy...who has a gas station, small..and of Indian descent...from India...well the freeper-idiotoids from around my community decide if hes dark with an accent, he's, in their words a "towelhead"...these folks are enough to make ya sick...

anyways, his next door neighbor..another freeper-type, decides to put up this dad gum fence, to make it difficult for patrons to get gasoline...i mean, the way the fence is set up next to the gas pumps, it was obviously and blatantly done to deter customers from using his pumps...bush-cheney signs in the dozens...it was mean-spirited and done for no other reason than for this man to lose business...

so...this guy makes his gas the cheapest in alll the land...his business increases, and word gets out..i swear this guy remembers your name, and if you are short a little, he shrugs it off..( i was off by a dollar once, and a week later i made it up...he trusted a perfect stranger,me, to be honest about it..i am no longer a stranger now :D) Despite his Democratic signs in such a Republican community, he has stood his ground, and is somehow still in business.

He has faced a ton of adversity, and predjudice, and STILL holds his head high, is competitive, and takes no shit from anyone. all the while smiling and cheerful.

i dumped my dentist for being a freeper jerk while i was under the influence of novocaine...he was yakking about bush to his assistant...i found a MUCH better one for my next visit.

So while we do business with respectful folks, if they are blatant about their politics(which we are not, under business circumstances, only socially) we stop all business immediately.

its tough being a dem with a business in Texas, but it can be done.

[yardwork]

44. What a wonderful story! You are admirable for supporting that man.

I am a small business owner (a consultant) and I know it is the height of unprofessionalism to let my customers know how I feel about politics. My business involves government departments, and while I am working I stay very objective, with no editorial comments.

As everyone here knows, I am a rabid Democrat. If I can keep that under wraps while working, anyone can.

There is no need to use one's business to promote a politician. Businesses who promote W lose my business. Simple as that.

[TexasLady]

46. well good for YOU!

we rabid types know when to froth, and when not to...:)

it is as silly to discuss politics as it is to discuss religion..and here in Texas, you wouldnt believe the amount of businesses that say "we are a Christian business..blah blah blah..."


may your business thrive!

[AlCzervik]

48. Good for you!

I lived in Spring texas for about 3 years, i from boston so it was quite a shock. I used to get so mad when i heard hispanics referred to as "Wetbacks". I would hear middle class subdivsion moms say that.

[Booster]

33. I stopped going to my dentist because during my entire

appt he would talk Bush 2 inches from my ear the entire time while both of his hands were in my mouth and I couldn't say anything. I just decided I would find a dentist who didn't bring his politics to work. At first it was friendly conversation, and this was during the last election, but the closer it got and then after the theft, he got louder and louder and I had just had enough.

[greblc]

35. YES!

[Digit]

38. I already do

I made sure my doctor was not voting for *
Same w/contractors I hire.

[Zorra]

41. I don't give republicans my business because I don't trust them. I suppose

there may be a few halfway honest republicans somewhere, but after examining general republican political behavior these past 4 years, it is apparent to me that a large enough proportion of republicans are corrupt, irrational, and dishonest enough for me to take this as an indication that it is wise not to deal with any republicans in business or any other matter if it can be helped.

Republicans will piss on you and at the same time try to convince you that it is raining.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

51. We need to stop patronizing the federal reserve.

The fiat dollar is the beast. :nuke:

[The Straight Story]

52. No one should do business with anyone who does not share their faith or

ideals (and can be outed on those beliefs or ideals through some means, like a repub with a bush sign, or a business with a rainbow flag, etc).

Don't give money to those who do not follow your beliefs (and politics is a belief system).

But personally, I don't really pay that much attention and politics has not risen to the level of a religion to me in this sense. I do seperate politics from business and faith when I am able to do so.

Fundies boycott disneyland because of the gay days there, anarchists boycott ... well maybe everyone :), left wingers boycott right wingers, and on and on. Everyone is trying to send a message, or punish, or affect those who do not share the same beliefs and ideals. It is a form of imperialism of ideas perhaps.

I used to do work, often for free to help out (thought I would get stuff from the store for free) at a few small convienence stores in CA run by some right wing types from pakistan. They had their beliefs, I had mine, but that was ok with us both. We came together where we could and built bridges. They felt the same way - and even though they saw porn as sinful they sold porn stuff, because that was business and that is what the customers wanted (they had a porn section, which it seems you can have in CA but not as much here in OH - they had more than mags, they had movies and 'toys').

We want seperation - of church and state for example. We want people to segment their personal beliefs and faiths from things like how we run the country together. We are a melting pot of not just culture and skin color, but also of ideals.

[never_get_over_it]

54. I will not knowingly do business with

any repunks - I am selling a house in VA and sought out a Dem as my relator - I went to a restaurant last week that had Freedom Toast aka French Toast on their menu and although I didn't leave that evening because I didn't want to cause a scene - I will never go back there - once I know they are repunks I don't do business with them. Difficult with a vet that you have used for years - like and trust - but if you can I would seek out a new one. I have completely come to the point that I don't want to deal with "them" on ANY level - that is how pissed I am at this administraton.

[The Straight Story]

55. Left wing fundamentalism and fear mongering?

From posts I have seen here and on other threads I am wondering how much different things are at the core:

Bush - Terrorists want to kill you, vote for me and I will keep working to stop them. Fear them, have fear, follow me.

The Left - Right wingers want to destroy your freedoms, enslave you, tak e all your rights, and make you worship their god, eliminate abortion, and so on. Lots of fear - don't fear, vote for kerry.

The Right - the left wants to take away your rights, make the world a pc paradise, show your kids the merits of fisting in school, turn us into a communist state, take your land and give it to someone else, raise your taxes, make excuses for the terrorists, blame others for the actions of criminals and terrorists (ie, the beheadings are not the fault of the people doing it but the fault of us because we made them do it) and so on. Lots of fear - vote for bush. (and if you doubt that is how they see the left, go to fr and such places).

Everyone is hawking fear. Each group condemns the other. We whip up the base on fear. Now we take it to the next level - don't do business with anyone that does not believe the way you do because if you do you are funding 'terrorism' (insert other things here as needed).

We lose when we play their game their way. Next time, perhaps (and this is my own ideal) let the business owner know you respect their beliefs, but disagree. Be polite - show them we are not a mirror image of them and what they do. We are better. We are open. We are willing to hear their side and respect them. We are not them.

It is like we go to war at times, and fight they way they do then ridicule the way they fight and call it wrong. How can it be wrong (or narrow minded, et al) when they do it but not when we do it? Are we superior, are our beliefs superior and do we want to destroy their culture and beliefs and relegate them to small areas like reservations?

It seems like politicians have done one thing well - gotten us to the point we nearly (if not really) hate others that don't see things the way we do. We chide the right when they rail against islam, then we rail against them and christianity. We all sit around fighting while both parties just go and do what they want.

Example: A few days ago someone posted a story about whales and such and how the navy was doing sonar experiments which hurt the animals. Everyone was on board (last I saw of the thread) with thrashing the right and bush over it - yet it was under clinton that this started and it was not until 1998 that it stopped after a lawsuit. Where were the dems on this? Did we let the big dog slide because he was 'one of us' and instead reamed bush only? Do we overlook our own leaders' problems because we 'fear' it may make them look bad and they may not win the next time around?

Do we vote against satan and for a demon because one is slightly better than the other, and then gloss over the acts of the demon because they were not as bad as satan?

This is not a bash on kerry - hell no. He has my vote. It is more a bash on followers (of all things and parties) and how they all act the same but have different labels. We are a divided people, through fear, and we vote based on that. Someday, perhaps it is a dream, we will have people running without a d or r behind their names and instead have people running on ideas - ideas which we communicate to the people and they think about and debate as a whole. Each putting their own value on what is said and voting based on information and not a fear factor which dominates today.

What binds us as Americans together (and I do not mean to exclude the rest of our world, just discussing the US here)? Safety and freedom. We want to live without fear and have the freedoms to live our lives independently of what others think. People don't want to be told what to do or how to live their lives - from abortions and gay issues, to smoking and having garage sales without permits. People tend to think of what is best for themselves, some think more about the group, and some try to think of what is best for both (nashian if you will - do what is best for yourself, and the group, and we all win).

I don't have all the answers in this experiment we call our lifetime on earth - but I do have ideals. They may differ from yours or someone elses, but I hope that others will not punish me for my beliefs and shun me (either personally or in business) because they have other ideals.

[BeFree]

61. Awww

Ya know, they would label you as a bleeding heart liberal, and you'd probably just smile at them as they stole your social security.

Straight Story, you took an awful crooked path to tell us to shut up.

They do profess to want limits on our freedoms. We want more freedom. If you can't see the divide and know upon which side you should be standing, you are a lost soul.

Being that we are at war with the pukes, a war which they brought to our door, mind you, it behooves us to return the fire in the same fashion as how it is rained down on us. You could say we are just picking up their grenades and flinging them back.

We, for the most part, want to be left alone and the piglickers want to tell us how to live our short time on earth. Pick your side, SS, and get on with it. Just remember, we don't need ankle-biters nipping at us from our side, eh?

[The Straight Story]

72. Freedoms?

You mean like banning smoking in small businesses - because they see that as a freedom issue. We see gay marriage as a freedom issue. Each side sees the other as wanting to limit freedoms.

We are at war with the 'pukes'? Does that not sound in and of itself like something a puke would say 'we are at war with the islamic fundies'?

My whole idea was to get people thinking and discussing - we use the same terms with switched out words at times and then condemn them when they use the same terms and methods we do.

We don't need ankle biters nipping at us from our side? Sounds like a patriotic jingle to me. Don't question, just follow.

They profess to want to limit our freedoms? Well they see us as wanting to do the same thing on different issues and levels - that is why they hate us. We tout freedoms in a few broad areas - gays and abortions for example, whereas they say they are promoting freedoms from having a christimas party or a halloween one (which one school in WA supposedly ditched because it was offensive to witches). They see the left as PC and that to them is a threat to their freedoms to have people be able to live their lives in a community of like minded individuals as they see fit - ie, the aclu is the attack dog who chews away at their freedoms and we are their backers.

My whole idea was to get people talking about things rationally together. We both see each other as wanting to limit the freedoms of the other side, albeit different ones.

I like to keep an open mind - to me that means listening to those who do not agree with me, not demeaning them, and trying to have a conversation which is rational. And it can be done. My best friend is a consevative voting for bush, and is openly gay. We try to listen to one another and not refer to the other as 'pukes', 'commies' and the like.

We strive to understand why others want to attack us, from beheadings to terrorist acts in general. We even discuss here how we can make the people in the middle east hate us less and how we can make them happier - even though many are fundies we tread lightly when it comes to them in a general sense, yet we don't do that for right wing people and others here in our own country??

[BeFree]

89. Right wing people

Want to take away your freedom of association. If they had their way your gay friend would be a second class citizen.

They would make anybody who objects to their way of thinking into second class citizens.

How many times have I heard that we ought to "turn the whole Middle East into glass"? And you worry about offending them.....

No, my friend, they have brought this 'war' to us, and it is our responsibility to fight back or become like the Jews in Hitler's era.

I wished I could have as rosy a view of the world as you, but my sensibilities tell me otherwise: Right wing people will destroy this precious world and take away our freedoms to live how we want, love who we want, and speak how we want. It is all to evident we have let them get too far already. It's time to take back America.

[George_S]

71. All this will die down after the election

Hopefully not too many families and friendships will be broken. And if a business doesn't let their politics get in the way of business, I could care less what their politics are (unless they are on the boycott list, but that is nothing personal either).

[The Straight Story]

73. I hope it dies down

Sounds too much like hatred (from all sides), which only leads to more bad things.

I want to build bridges and work for change, not blow up bridges. Calling each other names, bashing christians on the right (and others on the right) only leads to more anger and defensiveness. Anger, labeling, near hatred seem to be all too common from people around election time.

I don't see the right as evil - if one does not believe in a higher power than how can we define evil to begin with - lest we do so using our own values and ideals (which is what those who believe in a higher power essentially do, ie they agree with the tenets of their faiths/beliefs which define evil).

If we take a solely humanist point of view than end up with a might makes right type thing.

The ideal perhaps is break things down and work together on them:
1. Ideals which apply to self - for example, if someone believes it is a sin to carry out homosexual acts or have am abortion then they should choose not to do so.

2. Within the sphere of believers - like church goers (and I am not picking on christians, I find myself as one). If you see someone withing your sphere of beliefs, someone who has chosen to be part of your group, breaking the rules you can 'kick them out' or whatever (much like DU may kick out trolls and such).

3. Societal - Using the founding documents and our laws/structures we work together to build a better society for all. We realize what we may think or 'believe' is right within our own lives may not be what others see.

Example of the last - Jesus sent his people out to tell the people of the good news, he did not send them out to change the government and make people do things. He saw it was something each person had to do. The roman empire was far removed from the beliefs of Jesus - but he was not out telling his people to take it over and use that power base to make others live by his principles.

We need to discuss with others, see their points of view, talk some more and work together for a common goal - not sit around and call each other names and build up hatred of them and their ideals.

And if we think there is no other way - then perhaps we can understand better then the freepers and why they want to kill off those of islamic persuasion (ie, they see them as a threat with whom we cannot rationalize).

[bloom]

57. I don't think I would change

vets for instance - If I had been going 25 years and liked the person and all - unless they did something really obnoxious.


I was taking my daughter to the dentist the other day...

A week ago - first time I had been in his office (I haven't been to him myself) - he had just your normal magazines - Newsweek, Better Housekeeping, etc. So this week I see that he had this NRA magagzine with multiple skewed articles against Kerry. Automated "here is who you should vote for" on the cover.

Well - I figure there are other dentists - so why should I start going to this guy. I would probably just be annoyed with him to begin with.


If business people want to shout their politics loud and clear - that is their business - but they sure shouldn't expect everybody to like it. And in this day and age - I can't see any reason to help people help Bush*.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. Costco is Democratic. I buy everything I can there. I avoid any Repub.

businesses (if they give money to the Repub. Party or take a public stand on it. I don't know if I'd quit going to them for having a sticker on my car becasue I have a Kerry sticker on mine and I'd think it was pretty crappy if my clients left me. The large majority of my clients are Repubs - most likely. (They are Real Estate Agents in a Repub. area.)

[Rev_Karl]

60. If you feel strongly enough to change vets

Then you should follow through and discuss this with him directly. Remember that many people are just misinformed. Maybe he's still putting his trust in broadcast media, Fox and CNN. If he's a good vet then he's busy. Maybe he doesn't have time to research reality. Maybe he put that "W" on his car on 9/12/01. If you really believe that the issue is worth changing providers after all this time (and it is) then you owe it to yourself and your vet to talk this out. Worst case scenario is you change vets - and at best, if you can get through to him, he will scrape that "W" off his car and vote for Kerry.

[leftofthedial]

62. yes

shut them down

put them out of business

when they need community help, run them out of town

[Starlight]

64. I admit it. I check out this site:

http://www.opensecrets.org/

[jayctravis]

65. A "W" on his car isn't a big deal.

That's his private property.

If he displays political posters or stickers out front of the business, or on the windows, or in the office, or makes unwarranted political statements to you, then yeah, you're entirely within your right to take your business elsewhere.

Don't ask, don't tell.

[bvar22]

67. Dollars spent at republican businesses....

...will find their way into the campaign coffers of republican politicians.

OTOH: A trusted and competent vet is a treasure.
What is it worth to you?

[TankLV]

68. I have long ago - and I try to be on top which ones are repukes.

Don't want my hard-earned salary to support these traitors!

[951]

69. Short list of Bush supporting businesses in my area

Donor: Mrs. Fern W Moss ($2,000)
Taco Bell
1426 University Ave
Riverside, CA 92507
[phone]

Donor: MR. MARK HAWKINS ($2,000)
Riverside County's Credit Union
2847 Campus Pkwy
Riverside, CA 92507
[phone]

Donor: JOSEPH JACQUIN PERRONE / SUSAN PERRONE ($1,000)
Grinder Haven & D'Elia's Bakery
2093 University Avenue, Riverside, CA 92507
[phone]

[Redleg]

70. Hard to say. A lot of Repubs I know are not aware of how their policies

fuck other people. You could say they are willfully ignorant.

[UdoKier]

74. Only the ones that blatantly advertise it.

As much as I think anyone who supports Bush is either a goose-stepper or completely around the bend, I think people have the right to an opinion. But if they stick a huge "Bush-Cheney" sign in the window, they must know that they are alienating half of the customer base. Also, if a shopkeeper is constantly spouting off about "the liberal traitors" or whatever, I would not go there.

As for bigger businesses like Wal-Mart who donate a lot to the GOP, it's a matter of discretion, but in general, heavy GOP donor companies don't treat their employees as well as more dem or bipartisan companies. They are much more likely to embrace fascistic policies like company-wide drug testing, as does Home Despot.

I prefer to use loccally-owned or progressive corporations when possible...

[Ima]

77. Ocelot

I wouldn't change Vets unless he tried to convert you. Good Vets are hard to find and I love my cats to much not to get them the best care. It's the same with our Doctors.

Now on the other hand if I see a B/C poster on a restaurant or shop, I'd walk on by unless there was nowhere else to go.

[Rev_Karl]

76. Tell them Why!!!

If you just walk away you will have made little impact. At the very least leave a message on their answering machine. Just abandoning a business means nothing. They'll just think you moved or died.

[Barney Rocks]

81. You never can tell

for sure by a car. Do you definitely know it is his--and that he is the only driver?

I was once fired from a job--because of a bumper sticker that was not mine!

I was in college and often borrowed my housemates car to do errands. She was a bit on the radical side--and had lots of bumper stickers--including one that said "Liberate Laboratory Animals". Well, I had a job in a lab (that I was very pleased to have). I did not work with animals, but my boss dis have some animal experimentation going on. He saw me in that car--and he got rid of me. Of course--he didn't SAY it was because of the bumper sticker--he told me he had run out of funding. But, of the 6 people working on my project, I was the only one he let go. And he hired more people a couple of months later. He just didn't want me there, because he felt he couldn't trust me.

The problem was--it wasn't my sticker--and it wasn't my views. Don't judge people just because you see them in a car with a sticker. Only judge them if they say something offensive and make their views plain.

[Zorbet55]

84. Sure. If they advertise it, I would find another vet

just for my own satisfaction. These people are knowingly screwing our country for the sake of greed or bigotry or both.

There is no excuse for someone giving Shrub another term. It just doesn't make sense. He is clearly a failure and has put us into a lot of trouble.

[teamster633]

85. I agree with the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy.

I won't go out of my way to scrutinize a business owner's political leanings. But if he puts it in my face and I have any alternative, I'll take my business elsewhere without a second thought. Again, as someone already stated, those repuke dollars go toward funding repuke candidates, * first and foremost among them. I think it should be considered 'giving aid and comfort...'

[GinaMaria]

86. I don't buy Oberwiess dairly products here in Illinois

I have other choices and I prefer the organic brand that supported Jim Hightowers Rolling Thunder Down Home Democracy Tour. I'm fortunate in that I live in a democratic city. I have lots of choices for dem owned businesses. I shop Costco not Wallmart.

There are lots of good vets.

[Zorbet55]

87. YOUR CAT DESERVES BETTER!!!

[0007]

88. Absolutely! No doubt about it.

[sendero]

90. Not because they are Republican....

.... but because they use their place of business to promote a political view.

Not only do I think it is ok to avoid doing business with these folks, I think it is a shirking of your duty not to.

Again, this is not about someone having a political view, it is about them using their business to promote it. Once they do, they are no longer just a business.

There is a restaurant in Plano (not far from my house) called something like "Love and War in Texas". My wife and I had decided that we'd have to check it out. One day we're driving by, and there is this huge "support Bush" sign out front. I'll never eat there now.

[BiggJawn]

91. Only if you want to become "Hunter/Gatherers"

And then, who you gonna get your hunting supplies from? The fields you glean grain from are most likely ReTHUG-owned.

Damn few businesses and I'd say no big corps are Democrat-Owned. well, if you're lucky enough to live close to a COSTCO you're in luck, otherwise...

Maybe we should start stamping our bills "LIBERAL MONEY", like dollars I've seen stamped "GAY MONEY"?

[smitty]

92. boycotting republicans

Discuss the issue with your cats, if they approve, you can find a new vet.