I'm So Depressed.....

[Greylyn58]

I was brought up a Democrat in a Democratic household, but tonight I found out that my father and youngest brother have gone over to the dark-side.

My dad (who was in the Marines for 30 yrs) told me he was voting for Bush and would probably vote a straight Repug ticket. Needless to say I was horrified and tried to engage him in a discussion as to why he felt this way.

One of the things I got out of him was he believed the swiftboat liars - that made me sick - and he felt that Kerry couldn't do any better than Bush in running the country. I tried to explain the differences in their policies to him and also explained that the Swiftboat people lied about their service with Kerry, but he has made up his mind. Even my mom (who is the Democratic Judge in her precinct) sort of believes the Swift Liars, but I think in the end will vote for Kerry.

Thankfully my other brother has said he and my sister-n-law are voting for Kerry and the Democrats running for office in NC.

I wish I could convince my dad, but I've learned through long experience once his mind is made-up it's no use talking to him.

So as I said I'm depressed, but I'll get over it. SIGH!!!!

:shrug:

[Shoeempress]

1. I'm so sorry. But the important thing to remember is, he in a swing state?

[Cabbage]

6. That is a bad thing!!

It would be better if he were in an already decided state. Being in a swing state his vote will mean more.

[Dark]

9. Welcome to DU Cabbage!

:hi:

Yea, but he's entitled to his opinion. Let's just hope his doesn't win out!

[Greylyn58]

15. No...

I, my parents and brothers all live in North Carolina. So even though right now it looks like the state will go for Bush. It's not a deadlock for him. The Dems here are really working hard to swing it for Kerry.

I love my dad, but at age 74 he has become a bit crotchity. Not sure why but he has. x(

Oh well. :D

[Vickers]

2. Your dad's a Marine, and he's voting for BUSH*???

Hasn't he heard about Bush* being a big pussy back during the Vietnam War? How does he reconcile his long military service with his support of a guy who went AWOL?

:shrug:

[napi21]

7. Sometimes even Marines remain supportive of the CIF....

no matter what! That doesn't make him a bad person, and he is, after all, entitled to his own opinion.

I have a BIL who was an Officer/Pilot in the Marines, and served in 'nam. He, his wife & his family are all very dedicated Pubs. They're really very nice people. We just disagree.

My son is in the Navy, and we have discussions quite often. He detested BC, but always said "He's my Commander in Chief". I tell him all the time that he was brainwashed in bootcamp. I don't know that he agrees, but he's never told me I'm wrong either.

[TexasChick]

3. My twin and I are the only ones who are not Repukes in our family...

I'm Democratic and she's more of an independent! Both she and I voted for Kerry, but the rest of my family, well, needless to say, they're hopeless (we're all Texans)...

You're not alone on this one, I'm afraid. We all have "black sheep" in our families! ;)


Jennifer

[dave502d]

4. Print this and let him read it.A Marine Officer In Iraq Sounds Off

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports%20Hack.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=349&rnd=309.08505250270695

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Yes I know how you feel, ALL the dems I know have

"gone over to the dark side" and won't vote for that looser Kerry.
They say that Kerry is a FLIP FLOPPER and is soft on the war on terra.
I of course am beside myself and am very depressed too.


Just how many of these fucking stupid bogus testimonial posts do we have endure anyway?

[alittlelark]

13. No shit., .. thanks for saying it

[smbolisnch]

8. Same boat here...

My dad too was a marine, and he and my mom are both hopeless republicans. I have talked until I was blue in the face, given him pages and pages of articles, and while sometimes he seems to be coming around, he never quite gets there. I have decided that it is best to just let it go. It always ends in a huge argument anymore and I can't stand it. He is getting older and the thought that my last conversation with him might be a fight over Bush*, I can't stand.

[Vickers]

10. I'll ask you the same question: how does your dad, a Marine, reconcile

his military service with Bush* being a big AWOL pussy when it counted?

:shrug:

And frankly, I would have LOVED for my last words with my dad (RIP!) to be about saving the American way of life.

[smbolisnch]

16. Like I said, sometimes he seems to be coming around.

He does not see * the same way I do. He has said a million times that he appreciates my position but he doesn't have any intentions of changing his mind. Believe me, I have tried. However, I am very close with my dad and I am not about to ruin our relationship over politics. That does not mean I dislike * any less or support Kerry any less than anyone else, just that my relationship with my dad is more important than winning the argument. KWIM? :shrug:

[DuaneBidoux]

11. You know, I think it actually hurts..

It's like when I thought Bush was a sure win, and I got real depressed. I started thinking what was really depressing me and it wasn't that Bush would win as much as it was that Americans would actually elect him. Bush is one man, take him or leave him. But my country. My ideals and faith. To elect this man and I feel like I have lost a beloved child, that child being my country. Something I more profoundly love than anything else, turning it's back on everything I believed it was.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. *hugs* My FIL and BIL are voting for him too. *blah*

[NJmaverick]

14. Make them watch this ad

Then have them tell you why they are voting for this slime.

https://www.moveonpac.org/donate/doesntgetit.html#

[UTUSN]

17. Tell Your Dad His Shrub-vote Means Dead-Soldiers n/t

[ezekiel333]

18. "but I'll get over it."

So I guess bringing it up was moot point.

[kwyjibo]

19. I am too...

There are so many Bush supporters in my family. Yesterday I found out that my 19 year old cousin is voting for Bush and it broke my heart, because I know she didn't make the decision for herself, she's just doing what her dad is doing. I tried to teach her a little about Bush, but she isn't open to that kind of education.

The next time I'll see my family is at Thanksgiving, after the election. If Bush wins, I'm going to have a hard time participating in that celebration with so many people who refuse to listen to the facts about the man they put their trust in.

[JohnnyCougar]

20. Show him "going upriver"

Great new documentary on Kerry. make him promise to watch it!

[Raenelle]

21. My sister--always the nutty one--who's turned Christian and is a Bushie

[MattNC]

22. my family cancels each other out

Me and mom- Dems
Dad and my brother- Reps

[Merlin]

23. How to deal with Swift Liars' accusations one-by-one.

I'm sure this is way too long to do anybody any good in convincing a former vet about the Swift Boat Liars, but I'll put it out here just in case. It's the truth.

I fought for 19 months in combat in Vietnam (I-Corps, Americal Div) as an artillery officer, was awarded the Bronze Star with "V" like Kerry for a rescue operation, and returned to join Kerry and the VVAW in opposing the war.

In my view, the Kerry campaign should have fought the Swift Liars point for point via the Vets for Kerry and Band of Brothers, but they have chosen not to. So let me deal with the lies here, one by one.

1) Why Did We Oppose The War?
It was clear by 1968 that the US would NEVER do what was necessary to win that war. In order to win it, we would have had to go into N. Vietnam. (You can't win a war on defense.) But it was obvious we would never attack N Vietnam. Why? Because the Chinese had warned us against it, and the Chinese had the bomb. (Remember that in Korea, the Chinese sent 1 Million Chinese soldiers over the border forcing us into a retreat--and that was BEFORE they had the bomb and AFTER we had it. You can imagine how frightened the LBJ and Nixon administrations were of Chinese intervention.) So if we were never to do the only thing we could have done that would win the war, it meant we were destined to spend US lives to perpetuate a stalemate. We VVAW members believed it was the patriotic thing to do to demand an end to the war. If anybody thinks it was easy to take that position and risk the wrath of the WWII vets, who didn't understand Vietnam, they are nuts. It took a lot of guts for all the guys to march against that war.

2) What about the Claims of War Crimes
Many aspects of formal US POLICY in Vietnam were in fact in violation of the Geneva Conventions. (a) When I was in charge of artillery at LZ West, we would fire high explosive artillery rounds at random locations in the countryside throughout every night focussing on paths between villages. This "Harrassment and Interdiction" fire was a direct violation of Geneva Convention rules about free fire zones in populated areas. (b) Rampant racism against all Vietnamese was never officially discouraged. I once had a conversation with all of the chaplains of the Americal Division--all officers--about incorporating in their sermons reminders to the GIs to treat the Vietnamese people humanely and graciously--instead of calling them gooks and dinks and slopes and throwing C-rats at kids who chased our A-cavs and demonizing them as subhuman. Their response (this was over beers at the O-club) was that "The Colonel would be furious if we did that." This isn't a violation of the Geneva Conventions, but is a violation of common sense, since we were there supposedly to "save" these people, and the ONLY way we could succeed was to "win their hearts and minds." (c) Free Fire Zones were in place in many areas which included populated villages, a violation of the Geneva Conventions. (d) In BROAD DAYLIGHT we BOMBED the CITY of Ben Tre in March, 1967, a city of 35,000 people. We bombed it with B-52 strikes. The Colonel in charge of it stood by on a nearby hill watching as he was inteviewed by a Time correspondent. I remember reading this while getting ready to ship out to Nam and was appalled. The reporter couldn't believe what we were doing, and asked the Colonel why in God's name we were bombing a CITY of 35,000 CIVILIANS??? The Colonel answered, famously, "Well, in the course of events, it became necessary to destroy the city in order to save it." THAT WAS A VIOLATION OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS! So Kerry was absolutely RIGHT in testifying that US MILITARY POLICY included practices which violated the Geneva Conventions--and THAT was a violation of American law.

3) What about claims that Kerry's Testimony Delayed POW Releases?
Nonsense. If we had not marched and testified and FORCED this country to end that war, the POWs would have been in those camps for many more years while Nixon delayed and delayed and delayed.

4) What About the Testimony Bringing Shame to the US?
How is it that telling the truth brings shame upon any nation? Want to know what really brought shame on us? The facts that were being revealed; the racist attitudes that were being perpetuated; and stupid military policies being followed; the lies being told; and the failure to prevent scandalous atrocities, most notably that of My Lai.

It's too bad good people are being sucked up into these Swift Boat Liars' claims. Evidently they just can't remember the lessons of Vietnam. Evidently that's why we're apparently doomed to repeat them--at least until January 21, 2005 rolls around.

[jfk2004]

33. Thanks

Thanks, I'll save this for next time I hear these cons accuse Kerry and you guys in general. I wish Kerry wasn't so civil about this matter though. They can't hurt him anymore than they have. They already called him a traitor and communist lover. JK should strike back hard. That Oneil guy is a weasel for Nixon. He was and still is.

[Merlin]

24. .

ooops

[insultedVeteran]

25. Do something before its too late

I am a insulted Vet who believes that the attack on Kerry's
War record is a personal affront to all Veterans. These guys
never stop, with their character assassination until there is
but one party .... Theirs .... Get busy before its too late

WWII  Vet still alive and sassy

[bling bling]

26. I HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR YOU

Make plans with your dad the night before the election. Watch the rerun of Choice 2004. It will be on PBS. Order pizza, make popcorn, whatever it takes to get your dad to agree to spend the evening with you watching this show.

(If you want to check it out first, you can watch the whole thing from your computer by going to PBS.org)

In the documentary it shows how Richard Nixon recruited O'Neil (Swiftboat liar-in-chief) to counter Kerry.

Frontline is a highly regarded and respected source for objective documentaries.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/

[Dem_Loyalist]

27. My heart goes out to you

I have a cousin that's going to vote for bush*. I have no idea why. Our family has always voted the straight Democratic ticket. He's in our local community college and almost never visits the family anymore as he's always studying when he's not at class or his job. It's really odd too as his school, even for a community college, is very progressive. He must feel like a real outcast there.

[AP]

28. Start crying. Tell him that Republicans are making decisions that are...

...ruining your life and tell him that you're devestated that he would take their side and not yours.

[SoCalDem]

29. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink

old saying..but true..

people's thought process is made up of many things.. Rush Limbaugh..Fox News...family "tradition"..

all these things help shape a philosophy.. It takes an epiphany to change one's mind after it's been shaped for so long..

Wait til they figure out the real deal on the rx cards..or when SS gets cut for them..

Republicans only see the light when it shines square into their eyes..

[Cat Atomic]

30. *edited*

Blah.

[sweetheart]

31. doubt and fear are toxic viruses

And once they set in, the victem is a biohazard. The direct
opposite meme of faith, hope and love. It makes me wonder
what books of the bible these people read to reinforce
doubt fear and hate...? They're clearly missing the good bits.

[donheld]

32. I'm so sorry

My mother is on the dark side too, and there's nothing i can do to change her mind.