How much would 380 tonns of HMX and RDX explosives COST?

[joshcryer]

Because I think that's the important figure here. It's not that they got the explosives, but they saved that much money from their operations, since it was essentially free. Bush and his incontempence effectively funded the insurgency/terrorists. :)

[papau]

1. Think the CIA's trying to save on the budget - put this stuff in storage?

That was what I thought last April -

but there have been too many car bombs since - and the stuff has shown up in terror attacks outside Iraq since then.

[papau]

8. Will US Media dare to report this AP Wire conjecture? Insurgents got 400T!

Will US Media dare to report this AP Wire conjecture? Insurgents got 400T!

Insurgents could possess up to 400 tons of the deadly materials often used in bombs

By William J. Kole, Associated Press

VIENNA, Austria -- The U.N. nuclear agency warned Monday that insurgents in Iraq may have obtained nearly 400 tons of missing explosives that can be used in the kind of car bomb attacks that have targeted U.S.-led coalition forces for months.
<snip>

The disappearance raised questions about why the United States didn't do more to secure the Al-Qaqaa facility 30 miles south of Baghdad and failed to allow full international inspections to resume after the March 2003 invasion.
<snip>

Al-Qaqaa is near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew that drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow-colored storage buildings that appeared deserted.
<snip>

Insurgents targeting coalition forces in Iraq have made widespread use of plastic explosives in a bloody spate of car bomb attacks. Officials were unable to link the missing explosives directly to the recent car bombings, but the revelations that they could have fallen into enemy hands caused a stir in the last week of the U.S. presidential campaign.
<snip>
http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~2492592,00.html

[papau]

9. Josh Marshall posts interview NBC Producer embed - No Search

Josh Marshall posts interview NBC Producer embed - No Search


http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com /

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. Um, as a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. Almost, we stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or was, did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was – at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

AR: Well, Lai Ling Jew, thank you so much for shedding some light into that situation. We appreciate it.

[PBX9501]

2. A shitload

The last time I bought explosive for clearing (5 or 6 years ago) I purchased 1 half kilo of gelatin dynamite (overkill). It cost 60 dollars.

That much RDX and HTX would be worth many millions of dollars if it was in usable condition.

[joshcryer]

3. Going on your numbers, about $11,400,000. Nice going Bush!

That's actually quite a penny.

[PBX9501]

5. It would be MUCH more.

Gel Dynamite is very cheap compared to RDX and HMX. Those are used for specialized blasting. Once you are licensed to purchase 1.1 and 1.3 explosives you can buy what you want. But buying large amounts or certain kinds can raise flags. IE buying C4 (RDX based plastic explosive) to blow up stumps and beaver dams, I think someone would check up on you. Most people use binary explosives for this because they are easier to transport and not as regulated when it comes to storage. etc.
I would assume it is over $100 a kilo for C4 and god knows how much for HMX. If I get bored today I'll call around.

[slackmaster]

4. You paid retail - dynamite is MUCH cheaper by the truckload

That much RDX and HTX would be worth many millions of dollars if it was in usable condition.

Correct. At $10 per pound it would be just under $9 million. Worth guarding carefully for its financial value alone.

[PBX9501]

6. Yep

I don't need it around. Anytime I have bought it I buy enough so there is none left over. Even though I have a lock cabinet for it. I prefer not to keep it around.

I think RDX and HTX especially would be much more, even in bulk. I know it can be bought like a reagent in bulk and then blended or plasticized for weapons use. This is how I dealt with HE in a previous life. It would be made up in batches from base ingredients and blended with other stuff to make it do what we needed it to do.

[fob]

10. $60/half-kilo = $60/1.1 pounds or $54.54 per pound so 380 TONS

is 760,000 pounds times $54.54 = $41,450,400 worth of gelatin dynamite in 1999 dollars.

Add 10% for inflation
$4,145,040

Add 25% for higher grade of explosive
$10,362,600

Add 50% for black market cost
$20,725,200

Add 10% for shipping
$4,145,040

And bush*s blunder conservatively cost....



1100++ LIVES!!! and counting...

[atre]

7. What I want to know...

How did they move this stuff off-site? 380 TONS! And all of this movement was under the radar?

[Sinnerman]

11. 380 Tons ....... of Weapons???

I am a little confused. Also last night I heard about this weapons stash missing then I just saw a report from MSNBC that they had an imbedded reported on April 10, 2003 that reports the 380 tons was never at that location???