According to EVERYONE Iraqi civil war is inevitable !!!

[lanparty]

OK, I had an epiphany the other day. Many pundits list civil war as the biggest risk of a "cut and run" strategy. But lets think about it for a moment.

Both candidates favor staged withdrawals in which Iraqi military forces are put in charge of putting down the "insurgents". Isn't THAT CIVIL WAR between Iraqis???? Both sides ideally want a CIVIL WAR instead of an imperial style war!!!!

What we are really worried about is the fragmentation of Iraq. And in that case, aren't those people entitled to control their own destinies instead of abiding by the arbitrary lines drawn by the British Imperial Crown and British Petroleum????

Who are we to STOP a civil war if the people of Iraq truly desire it. Sure, they desire to have their way without fighting. But how realistic is this when their is no true authority in Iraq??? Authority is NOT annointed. It is bought in blood. And Iraq (or it's constituent parts) will have NEVER earned ANY status until it's paid it's toll in blood!!!!

If civil war is the result of not fighting, I say let it happen. We cannot stop it. All we will do is temporarily turn attention AWAY from bitter historical enemies and turn it ONTO US!!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. A bleak, but realistic, assessment.

It's like 40 years ago. We could pull our forces out of Vietnam, the communists would sweep in, purge the south, killing 50-100,000. Or we could stay, kill 2 million of them, let them kill 50 thousand of us, then pull out, the communists would sweep in, purge the south, killing 50-100,000.

I think we should pull out now, before we make things worse by a couple orders of magnitude.

[lanparty]

3. Some things are beyond our control ...

At some point EVERYONE must admit that some things are beyond our control.

If we were Roman instead of American, we would have burned Fallujah to the ground and killed 2/3 of the population. Then we would have enslaved the other 1/3 under threat that we'd kill their women and children if they didn't obey!!!!

In the empire business, THATS what works! The US Army is pretty lightweight in terms of controlling people and getting their point across. We have impediments like honor codes and "christianity". After all, Christ wouldn't burn down a mosque filled with townspeople!!!

We are not immoral enough to be Roman. Instead we always rely on 3rd parties like the Contras to do the dirty work of Empire. Hussein could control Iraq because he would kill anyone he needed to and wasn't worried about "innocents". We fail to learn the essential lessons from the imperial "professionals". Kill indescrimately, no smart bombs, no friendly hooches!!!

Marlon Brando was brilliant in Apocolypse now. He was a the inhuman moral manifestation of everything we were doing in Vietnam. We just couldn't face it because he was white, and he was a Colonel. He was us, and he was mad. His madness reflected our madness as a nation.

Well, if you can't hack off little kid's arms yourself, I think you should stay out of the empire business!!!! You need to dare to take the next step in civilization. We are in a state in between brutal thugs and truly evolved, peaceful society. As a nation we have two minds as to whether we should go forward, or back.

Every effort to keep countries OUT of Democratic-Socialist hands has resulted in the empowerment of brutal dictatorships. The problems of today's world is of our own making!!! When we turn our backs on a Chavez, we support brutality and dictatorships. When we presume to control the destinies of foreigners, we inevitably must rely on the thugs to keep order since we don't have the stomach to do what it takes!!!!

I vote forward. Get out of the empire business altogether. Let other people run their own houses. Be a good neighbor. Take care of your lawn! Make sure the kids stay busy and are happy. Lend tools to your neighbor, and make sure you get them back. Tear up any fences your neighbor misplants on your lawn!!!!!

[AngryLizard]

2. Even if there are elections

History has shown that a government that is more or less put in power by a foreign country WILL NOT STAND, leaving the people in that country to fight over the pieces. We haven't just fucked up this country for now, we've fucked it up for generations.

Have I mentioned how much I do NOT like what these people are doing in my name? Or how hollow saying "I didn't vote for him" sounds?

[ilovenicepeople]

4. Funny(sarcasm) you should bring that up

from watching American "news" programing I would say;"According to EVERYONE, American civil war is inevitable!!!":scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[AngryLizard]

5. Not as long as we have tivo

And Starbucks. And cell phones. Not as long as everyone thinks they can make money, and everyone does. All hail the American Dream. The worst we're probably ever going to face is to end up like England - a cultural giant as opposed to a global one.