Help please with argument about flu vaccine

[proud2BlibKansan]

The freepers are arguing that we have only one company making the flu vaccine because Hillary scared them away with her campaign to provide free shots to all kids. I know, her programs never became a reality and I told them that but they continue to blame Hillary.

Any ideas or links that will prove they are wrong?

[NMDemDist2]

1. make them prove it

they are blaming a defunct program that never got off the ground from 1993 for a lack of vacines in 2004?

good grief

[radfringe]

5. it's just another "spin"

I sent this around a couple of weeks ago: (scroll down for links/verifications)

During the October 13, 2004 debate a question regarding the flu shots was asked. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_1013.html)

SCHIEFFER: New question, Mr. President, to you.

We are talking about protecting ourselves from the unexpected, but the flu season is suddenly upon us. Flu kills thousands of people every year.

Suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen?

BUSH: Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country.

We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming season.

My call to our fellow Americans is if you're healthy, if you're younger, don't get a flu shot this year. Help us prioritize those who need to get the flu shot, the elderly and the young.

The CDC, responsible for health in the United States, is setting those priorities and is allocating the flu vaccine accordingly.

I haven't gotten a flu shot, and I don't intend to because I want to make sure those who are most vulnerable get treated.

We have a problem with litigation in the United States of America. Vaccine manufacturers are worried about getting sued, and therefore they have backed off from providing this kind of vaccine.

One of the reasons I'm such a strong believer in legal reform is so that people aren't afraid of producing a product that is necessary for the health of our citizens and then end up getting sued in a court of law.

But the best thing we can do now, Bob, given the circumstances with the company in England is for those of us who are younger and healthy, don't get a flu shot.

The Lie: Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated.

The Fact: Chiron Corporation is an AMERICAN company based out of Emeryville, CA -- it does have a manufacturing plant in England. http://www.oaoa.com/news/nw101604a.htm A supply breakdown at one of the two flu vaccine manufacturers, Emeryville, Calif.-based Chiron Corporation, has cut the nation’s vaccine supply to 40 million doses, half of the needed 80 million, Solla said.

The Lie: And so we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country.

The Fact: As of the night of the debate -- WE did not shut down production of the vaccine - British Drug Authorities did.
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041014-084642-7681r. It is looking more and more like the violations that led British drug authorities to nix half the U.S. supply of flu vaccine were mostly process problems, not widespread contamination of shots. In other words, the company that made the vaccine was not trying hard enough to keep its factory proficient and pristine.

The Lie:We have a problem with litigation in the United States of America. Vaccine manufacturers are worried about getting sued, and therefore they have backed off from providing this kind of vaccine.

The Fact: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041014/nyth205_1.html President Bush also missed the mark when he said that frivolous lawsuits were causing manufacturers to get out of the business of making vaccines. Bernard said, "While frivolous lawsuits may be a problem in other parts of the healthcare system, vaccine manufacturers and health care providers are (http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/INDEX.HTM )specifically protected from legal action by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. That said, I would caution our leadership in Washington not to consider vaccine injury cases -- including those related to mercury -- as frivolous. We are talking about real children who have really suffered or died, and that is never a trivial matter.

"The decreasing number of vaccine manufacturers is not a result of lawsuits, but rather a direct result of the 15-year trend of major pharmaceutical companies merging," explained Bernard. "That the flu shortage announcement came during a Congressional hearing questioning the delay in getting the Thimerosal out of flu vaccines may have deflected the media's attention from the topic, but coincidence has not been lost on parents who want safe, effective, mercury-free vaccines."

The Flip:We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming season.

The Flop:In previous debates, on the campaign stump and during the Congressional debates regarding the Medicare reforms -- Bush and republicans (http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/opinion/editorials/041017a.shtml
to allow importation of Canandian drugs</a> and to allow Americans to purchase drugs from foreign markets (including Canada). They cited "saftey concerns" as the reason -- but now Bush* wants to import Flu Vaccines from Canada -- did Canadian drugs suddenly become safe -- or is Bush pushing to import "unsafe" drugs -- or was the previous "concerns" a smoke-screen to protect American Drug Industries' profits?

Importation of Flu Vaccine from Canada is now a moot point. "http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=15087">Canada --- Says No to Americans Wanting Flu Vaccine

[dogman]

2. I heard reports that when Clinton was Pres. 10 companies manufactured

vaccine. Legal protection was passed for child vaccines. There was a bill passed to provide the same for flu vaccine but B$$$ has not signed it.

[lfs5]

3. Forget it! They can't allow logic to interfere with their loyalty!

If they were willing to see facts for what they are, they wouldn't be Shrub supporters in the first place!

[eridani]

4. An email from a doctor on one of my email lists

Sure! With the caveat that this is not a very complete treatise in any way, with lotsa holes/simplifications technically, and was written in the context of our list's discussion. But if you think it's useful in some way elsewhere, forward ahead. Thanks for asking!

----- Original Message -----

Great summary--may I share this with other lists?

---- Original Message -----

I am sorry to hear that you need the shot so badly, my friends. But if there is so little vaccine around, why don't they reserve it for people with problems, like asthmatics, instead than giving it to young soccer players as the one you mentioned? I don't get it... is there something behind this or is it simple stupidity?

AND Btw, a thought just occurred to me... since we do have the vaccine, if it isn't illegal and if it's possible to do it without ruining it (does it have to be kept in a fridge, for instance?), I could purchase it for you here and mail you the thing... what do you think?

---- Original Message -----

I am starting to work my inbox backwards after having been completely consumed by work for the past few weeks and pretty much unable to participate. However, I have caught up with this thread, of interest to me as a doc, and wanted to respond. I see, however, that E. has already found that flu vaccine needs to be refrigerated, usually comes in a huge, multi-dose vial, and at least in the US would not be available for over-the-counter purchase. I think S. was very kind to offer to ship this to members, however!

The flu vaccine situation in the US is somewhat complex. There are, as folks have mentioned, only 2 big suppliers of vaccine to the US - Aventis and Chiron. And - the reason for this is merely that health care in the US is a big, for-profit business and making tons of flu shot would not be profitable.

Immunization production is generally subsidized by the government, anyway, for reasons of lack of profit and trying to assure a reasonable supply. In 2003, 2 years ago, there was a shortage in the US, and plans were for EXTRA vaccine available this year, so planned production was actually higher than it has been for a while.

Aventis sells most of their flu vaccine to individual clinics, doc's offices, hospitals, etc - the for-profit settings. MOST of the vaccine deemed to be used in public arena clinics, such as the public hospital and clinics I work in, were to be supplied by Chiron. Aventis had already distributed most of their vaccine to the purchasers, which is why, as some of you have reported, various people have gotten flu vaccines who seem to be at low risk or rich people, etc. The vaccine Chiron was to supply had not yet been distributed, so now the public clinics are (mostly) SOL.

Of the 36,000 people who died of flu last year, MOST of them were infants, less than 2 years old, or elderly, or had some debilitating condition making fighting off the flu harder than for the average bear. In response to this, the US government has asked that clinics please refrain from giving their flu vaccine doses to people other than folks in these categories. They can't FORCE clinics/docs not to give it out, and for those private docs who perhaps don't see a lot of high-risk folks for whatever reason, they obviously will give it to whoever requests it and comes in and pays for it. Likewise, the big stores who had purchased their vaccine already, like Walgreen’s drugstores and other similar places who do such things in the name of public good/community service, have already held their clinics and given out most of their doses. But the short point is - MOST OF YOU WHO NEED THE VACCINE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND IT....if you get a move on before all doses are gone. UNLESS you get your care from public service/government hospitals or clinics, in which case you might find access much more restricted or doses just not available.

I'm sure you all have heard that the flu vaccine is not especially effective, anyway. It is redesigned annually in an attempt to account for Type A influenza strains that are ANTICIPATED to be making the rounds the next year. Influenza virus is one that mutates in a nearly-predictable fashion, so by tracing specimens of mutations, predictions can be made. Several anticipated types are incorporated into the annual vaccine BUT THEY WILL NOT PROVIDE PROTECTION AGAINST MANY STRAINS THAT COULD BE OUT AND ABOUT! And another thing -- commonly, people report that they got the flu after getting the vaccine and attributed it to having had the shot. Well, this is impossible, as this particular type of vaccine cannot cause disease, BUT --it certainly can fail to provide protection! Even against the strains it was designed for, if a person is exposed to the virus prior to the vaccine's having time to provide its effectiveness (couple weeks, usually), then the person can get the disease. Lesson: the earlier you get the vaccine, the better your chances of being protected.

There is another type of flu vaccine available on the market in the US of which there is no shortage. This is called FluMist, and is an intranasal rather than injectable vaccine. It is of the type that CAN cause mild disease, so it is NOT recommended for those people who are most vulnerable!!! (A bit ironic, I know.) BUT -- one of the groups of people commonly urged to get annual flu vaccines are health care workers, such as me, since we can contract and pass on the flu virus pretty easily.

The government is trying to obtain sufficient quantities of this to give to health care workers who are generally healthy people but at risk of becoming public nuisances, so I expect to be getting a dose of this up my nose soon enough.

[Bridget Burke]

6. Flumist isn't recommended for all health care providers.

It does use live virus. While it's pretty safe for healthy people, they shed virus for a while. If some of their patients are immunocompromised, there could be a problem. One hopes the writer of this memo takes a few days off; then he'll be OK for the season.

As to how effective this year's vaccine will be--flu season has hardly begun in the US yet. A new flu strain has developed in New Zealand but is not expected to be much of a problem here. And this year's vaccine has some protection against the new stuff, too. His unanswered statement "I'm sure you all have heard that the flu vaccine is not especially effective, anyway" is rather irritating.

The reason most health care providers in "the public arena" ordered vaccine from Chiron? It was cheaper. Those who could afford it bought from Aventis Pasteur & are doing OK.