1988: DU'ers, What Was the Mood like before the election, RE: Dukakis

[liberalpragmatist]

Did you guys have enthusiasm? Did you feel like there was a victory or that it would be close or did you guys know it was a lost cause?

The reason I'm asking is, I'm trying to gauge how people's mood this year compares with their moods in other election years, including 1992, 2000, 1980. I've already asked about 1980 and 2000. Post whatever, although I would like to know your thoughts on '88: it must have been crushing because it could so obviously been won, esp. by Gary Hart (had it not been for "monkey business) or Mario Cuomo.

I've seen too many pundits unfavorably compare Kerry to Dukakis. I've read plenty of so-called liberal pundits write that "Kerry makes Dukakis look good," etc. and that they think he'll be a mediocre president but at least better than Bush.

Anyway, I ask because I was too young to remember what the mood was like.

[tridim]

1. It's a tough question to answer

because there was no Internet. It was the olden days of communications. My group of friends were enthusiastic, who knows how other Dems felt.

[vademocrat]

2. Resignation - hope for some local races only -n/t

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

3. I was pretty young but...

...I remember it being obvious that Bush would win. Reagan was a popular incumbent by this time, the Cold War was nearly at an end, and people wanted to maintain status quo.

Dukakis didn't have the momentum late in the campaign and the Lee Atwaters of the world managed to create a negative enough perception of the Democrats, knocking down Dukakis' strengths.

And Dukakis had that stupid tank photo.

[jdj]

41. the tank photo didn't stick in my head.

what I remember is his rolling up his sleeves and saying "I am a liberal" he didn't handle the whole slur campaign effectively at all. I was a sophomore in college and still majorly pissed at Reagan for his comment about us "selling our stereos" to pay for college, I almost didn't get to go my second year because I lost grant and loan $$. So Bush wasn't appealing either.

I really believed Dukakis would win. What I remember most was his complete inability to counter the "liberal" slur, because you felt he really didn't understand the criticism or the word itself.

[liberalmuse]

4. From what little I remember...

there wasn't much enthusiasm, period. It was pretty much a given that Bush I would take it. Then again, I had a baby and was busy with other things at the time.

Now when Clinton came along, there was this kind of enthusiasm, but I have to say, the enthusiasm this time around may have it beat. BTW, I would have loved Gary Hart to have become Pres., but that was certainly nipped in the bud.

[RoyGBiv]

5. Hell No ...

In the months leading up to the election, Dukakis' poll number sank like a stone. He went from a double-digit lead right after the convention to a deep trough just before it. People were openly making fun of my Dukakis campaign pin, my bumper stickers, the things I said. They didn't even try to argue with me about it. They just laughed. I had been inspired coming out of the summer, and by the fall, all my illusions had been swept away. A lot of Democrats silently wished, and in the case of one elector not-so-silently, that Lloyd Bentsen had topped the ticket.

I voted knowing my guy would lose and lose big.

I didn't know any other Dukakis supporters who didn't feel the same. Dukakis is a good man who ran a horrible campaign.

[LittleClarkie]

37. Took the summer off, so to speak,

That's what I remember hearing people say. He didn't literally, did he?

I remember the "wimp or shrimp" from Bloom County, and the ceremonial "de-wimping" of Senior by Dan Rather of all people. I don't remember being terribly excited, but then again this is the first year of being really involved for me.

Funny how I feel the same way about being laughed at by people around me, though. They barely try to argue if at all: mostly they just laugh at the "voted for before I voted against" and "flip-flop" and "weak on defense."

I'll sit there and try to have a serious honest discussion, trying to explain that somewhere around 1996 or so, Kerry's defense voting changed, around the time he realized the dangers of terrorism and things like the Oklahoma bombing were taking place. But all my friend could say when I told him this was "Yeah, it changed until he voted against the $87 billion. HAR!" And this is from a guy I went to school with.

How nice that he thinks this is all a game. He must not know anyone in the military. He also thinks Bush has a solid coalition in Iraq, that we waited long enough (12 years after all), that underequiping the troops was Kerry's fault not Bush's and, when I added that Kerry was trying to get a measure introduced to provide for the returning Iraq veterans, he actually said, "Who cares about them at this point."

JOHN KERRY DOES, YOU ASSHOLE! AND WHY DON'T YOU, MISTER "SUPPORT THE TROOPS?!" OR IS PUTTING UP A LITTLE SIGN AND A RIBBON ENOUGH FOR YOU?!

Ahem. So, I guess the "making fun of" part is still the same, but I'm looking forward to a rude awakening for them come November.

Anything to get the chimp smirks off their faces. Funny how that seems to spread amongst Bush supporters. Must be some kind of disease.

[RoyGBiv]

47. Not literally, but ...

He didn't do much.

Someone else mentioned that Clinton learned from the Dukakis campaign. This is true. Clinton learned that you can't just ignore the right-wing attack machine. Dukakis was dedicated to running a clean, thoroughly positive campaign that focused on himself, his issues, his opinions, etc. Meanwhile, the Republicans did little but offer pithy catch-phrases and do all they could to smear Dukakis as a tax-and-spend liberal who let violent felons out on vacation. Dukakis never responded to that directly, and it killed him.

I'm really fed up with the people who complain about campaign ads that attack the opponent, especially with those ads focus on the opponent's record. (Heard this on the radio this morning ... two talk jocks talking about how they didn't like either candidate because of the negative ads.) Talking heads claim people don't like them, but if this were true, they still respond to them. (Those talk jocks will vote, and I'll bet dollars to donuts they vote for the candidate that in their minds formulated the best attacks on his opponent.) The '88 election taught us that firmly. You don't have to start off in attack mode, but if your opponent does it to you, you damn well better get as good as you receive, or you're doomed.

This is why some were so anxious over the Kerry's delay in responding to Swift Boat. That was an attempt at a Willie Horton ad, and if Kerry had remained silent, not dignifying it with a response or some such thing, it would have worked.

[NightTrain]

6. Truth be told, I didn't vote in 1988.

I was 22 and could have voted, but I opted out that year. Couldn't stand Bush the Elder, but Dukakis did little for me too.

[AlCzervik]

7. i remember 88 because it was the first election i could vote in

the debate did him in with the the death penalty question and the tank finished him off. I voted for him anyway but we all knew he would lose.

[Eugene]

8. Duke was on the defensive from Labor Day onward.

Around this time the Repubs had him
fighting to keep Massachusetts.
The Repubs "defined" Dukakis as
they failed to do with Kerry.

:dem:

[Chicago Democrat]

9. We knew he was a loser.... Kerry's got the Momentum

No...it was awful... an awful campaign and Kerry is kickin butt

The News is our friend... Bush's disasterous policies are yielding disastrous results in Iraq.

Huge Turnout! Its going to break the trend... It gonna be amazing.. THat is ALWAYS GOOD FOR DEMS

ALL the polls undercount DEMS by at least 5% .... "likely voters" is based SOLEY on historic trends and thus does not work for this election!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[AngryLizard]

11. DARK. We knew Dukakis wasn't going to make it

This feels more like '92 to me.

[MADem]

12. NO, no, no--I thought it was hopeless, though I tried to hope

We knew he'd been Hortoned. I am from Massachusetts, I felt the pain enormously. The ads were DEVASTATING--Lee Atwater's evil work. Boston Harbor. Willie Horton. The fucking TANK. The SNL skits were the only funny part (I can't believe I'm losing to this guy--John Lovitz at the "elevator" podium). And the Duke did not hit back. They ripped the shit out of poor Kitty (What do you call them beer bottles on the State House lawn? Kitty litter!) because she hit the sauce a bit. It was ugly, and it did not feel like this one at all.

Clinton learned a lot from Mike's mistakes. That was the bright spot in that disaster of a campaign.

I did not like Hart even before Monkey Business--he was just a little too much of a smartass, even before he got caught. He's much nicer in his old age, frankly. AS for Cuomo, they HAVE something on him--I don't know what it is, but it has to be juicy. He could have won it faster than Don Corleone could have ordered a hit. He had gravitas, a sharp wit, a commanding presence, the whole magilla.

I was with Mike from the git-go...oh well, win some, lose some.

This one feels like a winner, though. REALLY. It feels ... inevitable. Date with destiny, and all that! So get out the vote, and get out to vote...we can bring this sucker home!

[punpirate]

13. Atwater handled Bush's campaign in...

... much the same way Rove has tried to run Dubya's, with a bit more success.

The Willie Horton ad really hurt Dukakis, but only in the states where it was run (people now think it was a national ad campaign, but was not). There were many whispering campaigns and smears, that Dukakis was a mental case, that Dukakis' wife was an alcoholic, etc. Those also took a toll. And, they did their best to play up Dukakis as a "Massachusetts liberal," just as now, especially by promoting the "playing soldier" photo of Dukakis in a tank and contrasting that with Bush I's WWII record (no real mention of the fact that Dukakis had served on active duty in the Army in Korea).

As for the mood among Democrats as the election neared, I think most stayed hopeful, but there was clear recognition that the Bush campaign had scored points against Dukakis, especially in portraying him as out of touch with the average American (which was indeed odd, considering that the same charge was used effectively against Bush in 1992). I think most dispassionate Democratic observers noticed that Dukakis hadn't run a campaign which could have drawn back the so-called Reagan Democrats, some of which he very much needed to win.

Cheers.

[fortyfeetunder]

18. One thing about Lee Atwater

I think karma got him, because he met a tortuous demise (brain cancer or brain tumor). All those nasty thoughts destroyed his brain. Then he decides while on death's door he had hurt people with his evil tricks,and goes around repenting. Yeah, Lee, how about that? I had little sorrow for that pissant. Rot in hell, fucker.

[punpirate]

28. Well, look at it this way...

... you'll never see any deathbed confessions from Karl Rove. Maybe that's the only difference between the two.

I find it quite funny, though, that the religious right embraces candidates who are guided by some of the most amoral bastards known to man, Atwater and Rove prominent among them.

Cheers.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. The DLC has floated the myth that Dukakis lost because he was

"too liberal" (although they never defined "too liberal"), but I was on a college faculty of very, very liberal people (except for the business professors), and none of them were enthusiastic about Dukakis.

One prof who was a long-time activist in the county party structure tried to fire up his colleagues and get them campaigning, but most were underwhelmed by Dukakis.

Oregon's Democratic primary went 39% for Jesse Jackson that year, so much for Dukakis being the "darling of the liberals."

I was at the county Dems' election night party, and the mood was grim as we watched the states go for Bush Sr. across the country. Some of us had our fingers crossed, hoping that Dukakis could pull this one out of the fire, but deep down, we knew that he was doomed.

He was simply a lousy campaigner.

[NoPasaran]

15. Doom

Bleakness.

The Void.

Total emptiness.

Probably pretty close to what Rove is feeling these days.

[kurtyboy]

16. Well, I'll be no help--I voted for the evil bas**rd's dad

Okay, Okay, I know that subject line is logically challenged....

Anyway. I voted for GHWB because I was stupid, and because I was a gung-ho worker in his administration (I voted Mondale-Ferraro in 1984). I KNEW the GOP was going to win--there was no doubt in my military mind about it.

I voted for the Libertarians in 1992 (Marrou and Lord--again because they had a woman on the ticker, as in '84), but since 1996 have been DEM all the way--and I'll never look back.

Compared to 1988, this year is flooded, inundated, nay, INFUSED with victory for the Democratic party. To borrow a phrase from a useless freeptard, Let not your heart be worried!!!

Kurt

[donco6]

17. VERY Blase

Not this kind of emotion at all. The news was so bad for so long, no one had much hope.

[FredScuttle]

19. No. Comparison. At. All.

Comparing 1988 to 2004 is like comparing a tea party to the landing at Normandy

Stakes are too high, too high to entertain comparisons to Dukakis' disastrous campaign. The GOP would love to link Kerry to Duke's campaign, but IT AIN'T HAPPENING.

[geek tragedy]

20. Gloom and doom.

My dad, who works for a Dem member of Congress, took his Dukakis bumper sticker off in disgust with the pathetic campaign they ran.

[Must_B_Free]

21. Dukakis looked like a Putz after the tank ad

there was no way he could win after that.

[NinetySix]

22. Frustrating. Very gloomy.

Dukakis had come out of his convention with a 17-point lead on Bush. That was the time of heady optimism for the end of the Reagan Era. It was followed, unfortunately, by the Autumn of Willie Horton. There was no hope at all by the end of it, and the defeat was bitter. I can still recall lying in bed with the flu on January 20, 1989, watching that SOB get inaugurated and feeling more miserable than I could remember.

[charlie]

23. The worst, just awful

Dukakis came out of the primaries and into the convention with stellar numbers. The talking heads chirped their approval -- the Democrats finally "got it" and nominated a non-ideologue, a practical policy wonk. It looked like Bush would have a tough fight on his hands. His support was soft, and the quarters that his son would come to regard as his base were openly hostile to him, the Rockefeller Republican CFR Trilateralist. William Schneider was bold enough to predict a Dukakis win in the early summer.

Then Bush/Atwater took a wrecking ball to flaccid, hapless Dukakis, in the most issue-free campaign I've ever seen -- Horton, death penalty, flag burning, Boston Harbor, and LIBERALLIBERALLIBERAL!!!

Imagine watching your candidate's numbers erode unabated all season, while you can only stand by going, c'mon, c'mo-o-on Mike, DO SOMETHING!

It sucked out loud, it was the worst, just horrible.

[UdoKier]

24. Totally different. In EVERY way.

Kerry is a more charismatic nominee, and whether one agrees with his stance on the Vietnam war at the time, it did exhibit courage and independent thought.

Bush 1 was still basking in the glow of the still-very-popular St. Reagan, who was well-liked by many dems, myself included (though I disagreed with his policies)

Bush however, in spite of the media hype to the contrary, is NOT especially likeable or popular, and has had a consistent record of failure in every arena, whereas Reagan was at least successful in creating a debt-induced economic bubble and in lifting the nation's spirits after the dismal late 70's.

The activist base was less together and less informed, and people were not very excited about the unbelievably dull team of Dukakis and Bentsen.

We shoulda drafted Cuomo that year...

[UdoKier]

25. I disagree that Kerry makes Dukakis look good.

Kerry: Tall

Dukakis: short

Kerry: homely but dignified

Dukakis: Swarthy, looks like the dark-haired guy on "Revenge of the Nerds"

Kerry: Has a ponderous speaking style that lends him gravitas

Dukakis: Had a smart, but clipped way of speaking in a higher, nasal tone. Not especially presidential.

Yes, these are very superficcial aspects, but they are half the battle, unfortunately.

And then there's the contrast of the youthful, charming Edwards to the dour, elderly Bentsen...

[mykpart]

26. I think the party had pretty much writtin him off

by election time. I'm in Texas, and I remember Ann Richards coming to our town to remind everyone to be sure to vote for Lloyd Bentsen for reelection as Senator (he was the vice-presidential candidate). I figured then they knew we would lose, and just didn't want to lose the Senate seat also. So I always like to say that in 1988 I voted for Lloyd Bentsen twice. Interesting note: Wasn't Karl Rove responsible for the Willie Horton ad?

[charlie]

27. Dunno

Wouldn't be surprised if it was. It was David Bossie (Clinton Chronicles, Celsius 41.1) who actually made the ads.

[Rich Hunt]

29. like everyone else

Of course, I was in college, and surrounded by Dukakis supporters (everyone hated Reagan) but we had a feeling that the outside world was....different.

Lots of people saying 'oh well, Bush will be better than Reagan' and were willing to settle for that.

[SoCalDem]

30. Truth be told, everyone I knew (self included) did not really care WHO won

GHWB was not all that well known, kind of a milquetoast little guy..(he's tall, but he has always seemed small to me)... Dukakis never really caught on.. People did not warm to him, and he never seemed presidential..

I think the mood of the country was that since he had been VP, he would do a better job..

On a scale of 1-10, they were both 4's..

I saw no signs, bumper stickers.. No one really cared.

[rockydem]

33. when did you start to become passionate about politics?

and why?

[SoCalDem]

34. November 2000

I had an epiphany.. Until then, I always assumed that "things would work out OK"..

The 2K election showed me just how many layers that onion had, and it smelled more, as the layers peeled off..

I was FURIOUS...even though until the election, I really did not care that much for Gore, nor mind that much about Bush..

it was the bold greed and smashmouth tactics,and the sheer audacity of Jim Baker and the whole Bush clan that had me glued to the tube for 36 days..and I was hooked.:)

It was like watching a train wreck in slo-mo ...you knew what was happening, but there was no way to stop it, and you knew that lots of people were gonna get hurt..but you could not stop watching it..:(

[Nordic]

31. Dukakis was way too "East coast" to win nationally

that was my take on it anyway.

I liked the guy but thought his appeal was strictly east coast.

[Dob Bole]

38. which became Bush's problem in 1992... (nt)

[Skittles]

32. I knew he was gonna get his ass kicked

nt

[sandnsea]

35. Yeah and they called Clinton "Slick Willie"

There's something morbid about the press, especially the liberal pundits, that just can't find a decent thing to say about any Democrat. I don't understand how their minds work any more than I do a fundie's. They don't want Bush, but if Gandhi himself were running, they'd criticize his quiet ways. They're pompous asses too.

[saracat]

36. Dukakis was too short and had a oversized head on a

small body. He simply didn't "look presidential" And then there was the ethnic thing.I'm sorry but no way was middle America ready for a Greek! It was obvious to me and most folks I talked to , on both sides of the fence, Dukakis was going to lose and lose big.
I feel completely different this time. The grassroots are a lot more obvious and the base has changed from ABB to pro Kerry. We really like this team and they are looking good. Edwards and Kerry look good together. They make Bush and Cheney look like a chimp and a troll.And believe me, that visual counts. They are their own version of the Dukakis tank picture!

[WoodrowFan]

39. DEPRESSED, THIS FEELS MORE LIKE 1992 TO ME

1988 was depressing, like watching a car approach a wall, you KNEW what was going to happen. In 1992 (and 2000) I was nervous but hopefull, as well as amazed anybody could consider vote for Bush!

[Walt Starr]

40. Total doom, no way Dukakis was going to win

Absolute despair.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. Being 18 at the time, it was my first election. I was happy I was going

to be able to vote, but also sad that I knew my vote wasn't going to do anything. :hi:

[G_j]

43. Ray-Gun was more popular thar W

there was not a whole of resistance to the RW in general.
Some think of the eighties as a time of greed and excess (think cocaine) It was a depressing time for 'radical lefties'. I felt like a voice in the wilderness that nobody cared to hear.

[bobbieinok]

48. agree

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

44. I got stinking drunk at 5:00 p.m.

Just so I would be too hammered later on that evening to hear the results. Dukakis surged at the end (when he rolled up his shirt sleeves and discovered a populist message) but by then it was a lost cause. I think it was the first election where the media was openly rooting for a particular candidate, with Bernard Shaw asking the idiotic question about Kitty Dukakis being raped just to make Dukakis look bad. The press may certainly have leaned one way or the other in the past, but in 1988 they took the giant leap into partisanship.

[greekspeak]

45. I was 15 and still a Wingnutlet in 1988

I had watched Reagan steamroll Mondale in 1984. I was glad of that, because my dad's mother had done her best to convince me that Mondale in the WH meant certain nuclear annihiliation. By that time, she had me scared shitless that nuclear holocaust was imminant. 1988 I did not know who Bush or Dukakis were really, only that Dukakis would be a sort of anti-Christ and that Bush would do no wrong. I laughed with glee when Bush won. 4 years later, I did the same when Clinton won.

[Strawman]

46. I was a naively hopeful high school senior

Back then the county that I live in (Macomb County) was getting alot of attention as a bellwether county, so at least in my immediate area the election was believed to be somewhat in doubt. Reagan even came to our high school to give a speech on our football field. And Jesse Jackson came earlier that year, which I unfortunately missed because I was out of town at a debate tournament. Funny thing about Reagan's visit is that we were told that Reagan's speech was not a "campaign appearance," so we were not allowed to make or bring Dukakis signs. Of course, it was and as soon as we got in there there were Republican party hacks trying to get a crowd of school kids to chant "4 More years" and there were Bush 41 supporters all over the place with Bush signs. Our government teacher even told us to make "Welcome President Reagan" signs as part of our graded classwork, it might have been extra credit, but still, ridiculous. I refused to make one. Instead my friends and I each painted a big red letter on a white t-shirt, climbed to the top of the bleachers, and when everyone else in the bleachers sat down when Reagan began to speak we stood up, took off our coats and 9 of us spelled out DUKAKIS 88. There might have been 10 of us, I can't remember if there was an ' in there before the 88 or not. So instead of having a few little Dukakis signs dispersed in the crowd, we had a huge ass Dukakis 88 human banner. It was a gratifying, albeit Pyrrhic, victory for a 17 year old kid.

So I was hopeful that we would somehow pull it out, but it was pretty clear we wouldn't. I remember thinking we would have had a better shot of winning if Bentsen were at the top of the ticket after he zinged Quayle with that JFK rip in the VP debate. At face value, Dukakis was just not presidential to most people. He was like a little cartoon character, especially after he climbed into that tank in Warren. I think there's no comparison between him and Kerry. Dukakis was doomed, not because he was a "liberal from Massachussets," but because at face value he did not look or talk or carry himself in a way that most think a President should and Bush 41 did, at least somewhat. I think the opposite is true when you compare Dumbya and JK side by side in those debates. JK looked like the presidential one.

[Carolina]

49. RESIGNATION

Bush 41 was as vicious as his devil spawn offspring and became especially so when the Duke was 17 points ahead. Then 41 surged and in an SNL skit, the guy who played Dukakis even said: I can't believe I'm losing to this guy.

Kitty Kelley aptly points out in her book that the only reason Bush won was because of the machinations of Lee Atwater and the sheeple's devotion to Reagan. Four years later, without Atwater and with Ronnie a distant memory, 41 was a hapless campaigner who sank so fast that Bar starting packing before the election results!

Anyway, in '88 I remember thinking we're going to lose again. We had been losing since 1968 and I feared then that I would not see a Democratic Administration again in my lifetime. It was not a good time.

But the man from Hope brought hope and help in 1992 and I am confident JK will do the same next week. Perhaps there is a god after all!