DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA

[BayCityProgressive]

I urge everyone to check this group out. Many prominent progressives are members. John Sweeney of the AFL-CIO, The Author of "Nickle and Dimed", Noam Chompksy, Cornell West, Gloria Steinem ect. There are a few congresisonal Dems who are members also, and they work with Bernie Sanders. Good progressive group!
www.dsausa.org

[JimmyJazz]

1. Thanks. I'm learning there are more socialists here than I

initially thought. I added it to my favorites.

[Sugarbleus]

2. Thanks, will check it out.

I kind of lean that way myself. :hi:

[Sporadicus]

3. I'm a Member n/t

[OutsourceBush]

4. You are either democrat or socialist

for the most part. This is the sorta of thing that gives dems bad names IMO. I left the repuke party to be a Democrat, not to be a Democrat Socialist. I don't have anything necessarily against Socialists, they are much better than Bush fascists but I don't think we should mix the terms and give repukes ammo against Democrats.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[OutsourceBush]

6. my panties are not in any rut

I would just appreciate it if you don't help the repukes with this sorta stuff that gives repukes ammo. Maybe should go post on freeperland for republican fascists while you are at it, to even things out.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[OutsourceBush]

9. you are doing more right now for the repukes (with this thread)

maybe you should reconsider being a repuke yourself. I'm done talking to you 'democrat socialist'.

[Iris]

No. YOU are doing what the Republicans do by

trying to tell other people what they can and cannot say.

The Republicans will take ANYTHING we do and turn it around for the common Fox News Viewer to ingest without question.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

14. Someone of any intelligence knows the difference between 'liberal'

and 'socialist'. The average Freeper however doesn't have any intelligence. Don't worry yourself about the opinions of some racist fundies. :)

[Azure]

16. DSA vs DLC

If the repukes can still get us to have knee-jerk negative reactions to the term "socialism," they are succeeding. They WANT us to denounce things like democratic socialism, preferably without knowing much about it. Anytime we run away from the progressive agenda, Republicans get stronger. They've already got the DLC duped into doing their bidding, and their overall effort to move Democrats away from the left is working quite well. When people come in here and get red-faced about democratic socialism, the DLC and the repukes are loving it.

"Democratic socialism" is not the socialism of the USSR. It is not communism. It is hardly different from the progressive agenda that so much of the Democratic party was built on. If you're a DLC Dem, fine -- nobody is trying to force you to endorse democratic socialism. However, if you are a progressive, there's a lot to be said for the DSA. Remember, repukes want to stigmatize the term "socialism" as much as possible. When we help them do so, we are doing their work for them.

Anyone who "didn't come to the Democrats for socialism" ought to re-examine just what they came to us for. Social Security is a socialistic program. So is national health care. So are food stamps. So is the progressive income tax. All of these things that make America what it is today had their origins in socialism. A truly capitalist state would have none of them.

I'm not a DLC Democrat. I believe that the true mission of our party is to make cpaitalism work for everyone, not just the plutocrats. To do this, we must introduce socialism as a counterbalance. FDR knew this, and so should we. I'm not anti-DLC -- if they can help us elect Democrats, fine. I just don't think that we should allow the repukes to convince us that the DLC is the only legitimate voice in our party, and anyone to the left should be written off as irrelevant.

So, who is doing more for the repukes? Those of us who are pushing the progressive agenda, or those of us who are helping them to stigmatize the term "socialism" and silence the progressive voices?

[OutsourceBush]

23. who is doing more damage to the democrats?

people who make the democrats look too far left, those who make the Democrats look too homosexual, those who make the democrats look too anti-Christian, those who make the Democrats look too gun grabbing, etc, etc.. Democrats should take care of the fringe and protect their rights, but not make the fringe their battle cry. We need to gear policy and rhetoric toward the center to WIN. If you don't win it's all bullshit and mental masturbation IMO.

[Kanary]

36. All that DLC shit is rapidly being disproved, and swirling down the toilet

All that crap is what has caused the losses of the last couple of election cycles.

ENOUGH!

Dems get back to their roots, reclaim their party, and leave the scaredy cats in the dust.

Kanary

[welshTerrier2]

25. well said !!

welcome to DU, Azure ... keep up the good work ...

[Azure]

28. Thanks, glad to be here

We need to keep speaking up for the progressive agenda. If we don't move the party to the left, it will keep moving to the right. Yes, it's important to keep the center in mind for the sake of swing votes, but not at the cost of having two Republican parties -- "GOP full flavor" and "GOP lite."

[welshTerrier2]

29. get ready ...

DU has changed tremendously as we've moved closer and closer to election day ... over the last year or so, "winning" has become all-consuming and rightly so ...

stay tuned ... those that see everything in terms of november 2 are unlikely to remain here ... and then the real fun of building a platform will begin ...

DU has been great as a campaign vehicle ... i really hope it can become a force in setting a day-to-day direction for the left ... we'll see ...

[zippy890]

31. I agree

Well said.
The Democratic party has historically been inclusive - of many diverse groups. The downside is that it leads to some in-fighting and fractionalization.
Please, we can't forget how to have reasoned discourse in this country,keep the dialogue going, talk about basic philosophies, to be able to listen, dare I say, be'open-minded'?
We can't become like the fascists, singleminded and intolerant.

This is a great discussion.

[OutsourceBush]

26. "If the repukes can still get us"

Just to clarify...they are not getting 'US' to do anything, they are getting VOTERS to do something. Voters who listen and learn via sound bites. You have to avoid providing certain sound bites and stereotypes that lose you VOTES.

[eridani]

34. No, you have to create a political culture where people pay attention--

--to issues, and are really involved in the public sphere. Then there is a critical mass that can't be as easily swayed by soundbites.

[welshTerrier2]

22. you're choosing a poor strategy here ...

if i'm reading your position correctly, you believe that by talking about and advocating various socialist views, the base poster is somehow opening up Kerry and the Democratic Party to criticism ... i'm sure you can hear it now: "Kerry is really a socialist ... he just won't tell you that ..."

well, i suppose it's good to be cognizant of the attacks that will inevitably be thrown at Democrats by the right-wing hate machine ... but look, and i know that you know this is true, they're doing it anyway ... and it's not going to sell ... voters, whether they like Kerry or not, have come to know him fairly well ... he is not a wild-eyed Marxist ... it would hurt bush to level allegations like that when they are so clearly absurd ...

now, the right strategy is to realize that many on the far left, regardless of their political affiliation, understand the need to purge the Capitol of the evil, greedy neo-Cons ... we come in peace and seek to stand with you to fight for Kerry's election and do whatever we can to take back our democracy ... we are not the same as you but in the current struggle we are allies ...

as a model, look at Bernie Sanders working on many issues right alongside the democrats in Congress ... we share many common views ... if you read the articles posted on the DSA website, and some of them are truly remarkable, you'll quickly see that they view themselves more as an issues movement than as a party ... they seem to take a very pragmatic view supporting Democrats over Republicans ...

to fight among ourselves while such a dangerous right-wing enemy is so firmly entrenched in power is not the way to bring about the world you're seeking ... i understand where you're coming from but without a real unity of "those who are not sleeping", we will all be doomed ...

[BayCityProgressive]

12. Medicare

Social Security, Labor Unions, Unemployment insurance, publicly funded education, credit unions. All rooted in socialism. The Repukes will accuse all dems of being socialists no matter what so it doenst make a difference. I for one am happy to be a progressive DEMOCRAT and a Socialist or social democrat.

[KG]

21. other great 'socialist' institutuions -

public schools, public hospitals, police depts., fire depts., national and local parks systems, national and local dept of transportations, public utility companys, etc.

[OutsourceBush]

27. Amazing how the Socialist party accomplished all of that

when the only two valid parties in the US are Democrats and Republicans. They must have slipped into the House and Senate on recess and created all those programs before the law makers came back from vacation. Pretty slick of them I must admit.

[ghostsofgiants]

30. Nobody said the socialist party accomplished that.

The point is that they're all rooted in socialist ideas.

[eridani]

35. No, the Dems were just smart enough to steal from the socialists--

--that's why the socialist parties went down the tubes. I don't care one way or another--I just want the agenda. I don't care who gets credit for it.

[KG]

37. the point being that you already live in a democratic-socialist society

tho, there are many that refuse to admit it.

[ghostsofgiants]

11. Ugh, some people...

"Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically — to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well — everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US"

Likening "Democratic Socialists" to "Republican Fascists" is extremely insulting.

[OutsourceBush]

13. Likening

You likened them, I didn't.

[ghostsofgiants]

15. Then what was this?

"Maybe should go post on freeperland for republican fascists while you are at it, to even things out."

[bloom]

18. I saw Michael Moore in a Documentary saying

something to the effect that there are 280,000,000 people in this country and if you think that two parties are going to represent all of them, you are out of your mind.

Unfortunatly - the way the system is - esp. the electoral one - it seems about impossible to get out of it.

Countries all over the place have many viable parties - but right now - it seems we have to make the best of it with many diverse opinions.



Personally - I think that both Democrats AND Republicans should move to the left.

I've moved quite a bit to the left now that I am convinced that nearly all of the mainstream media is a sham.

[welshTerrier2]

8. i like this "sub-link" better ...

the whole site is interesting but i really think every DU'er, regardless of their views on Democratic Socialism, should read this long but very important article:

http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html

for you moderate dems out there, please understand that the DSA wants to work WITH the democratic party ... in the long run, we may be very far apart politically ... but now and for the near term future, we need to be unified ... take a little time to better understand your comrades to your left ... we're working with you, not against you ...

[Anarcho-Socialist]

10. Thanks n/t

[KG]

17. one day, and i hope it is soon, the working people in this country

will finally realize that democratic socialism is the path toward a better standard of living.

[mike_c]

19. excellent site and an outstanding organization....

The title of their magazine is "Democratic Left." Lots of great articles in there.

To any lurking freepers or "former republicans": Make no mistake--I am a proud liberal who doesn't mince semantics and who would would be very happy indeed to see America move closer to the socialist tradition. Enlightened, democratic socialism is probably the best of all possible political worlds-- a liberal vision that combines the best elements of socialism, the GPUSA, and the Democratic Party's non-corporatist left wing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Cool, thanks! Democratic socialism rocks!

[ElkHunter]

24. I was a founding member of DSA...

...and it's predecessor organization, the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee, for more than 15 years. They are an excellent group with veterans of the various left wing political organizations and movements going back to the 1930's. Many notable people on the left are counted among it's members. And their vision of socialism is not the stuff of the old Soviet Union but with a democratic face. As a matter of fact DSA has done a some great work in the area of the theory of 'market socialism'. They are a sister organization to Canada's New Democratic Party and the social democratic parties of Europe and around the globe.

I let my DSA membership lapse about a decade ago not because I didn't believe in it's ideals - I do. Rather, I could no longer see that the socialist project was relevent for our time so therefore I decided that defending socialism was actually an obstacle. If DSA could show me that they actually intended to be a player in American political life I would join again in a heartbeat.

[ElkHunter]

32. By the way...

...I would strongly suggest that those interested in democratic socialism read "Socialism Past and Future" which was written by DSA's founder, Michael Harrington. You might also read "The Long Detour" by James Weinstein, a democratic socialist and founder of In These Times. Harrington's book discusses the socialist vision, Weinstein the strategy for getting there. Both are excellent.

While DSA is now more open to 'third party' movements than they once were, they have always worked within the left wing of the Democratic party. They intend to be what Michael Harrington called 'the left wing of the possible.'

[zippy890]

33. Thank you

I am heartened by the interest in socialist philosophy shown here.