Is it possible to un-pardon someone?

[jmowreader]

Or override a pardon?

Another poster had a point: Bush will grant pardons to his entire administration before he leaves under cover of darkness. This will close any pending investigations into things like Plame and 9/11.

Could Kerry as the incoming president reverse all of these pardons and reopen the investigations? It's never been done before, but you could say that about most of the shit Bush has pulled--like pretending to be the First Lady from January until 9/11, invading another country, and his economics.

This isn't a "would he" but a "could he."

[bryant69]

1. Nope

It violates a basic constitutional right; the right to be safe from double jeapardy. Once you are declared innocent of an offense you can't be retried.

Nothing's stopping us from sueing them, though, which might be the way to go.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. I don't think you can give blanket pardons.

You have to be accused of and charged with a crime to be pardoned of it, so far as I can tell.

[Cyrix]

19. Totally untrue

A president can grant amnesty (a general pardon). For example, amnesty was given to those who fled to canada to avoid the vietnam draft. This allowed them to return with out fear of prosecution.

Also - NO charges need to be filed in order to be pardoned. (see: Nixon) More than likely on November 3rd bush will grant pardons to him self and all others he has been involved with.

[Cyrix]

20. Totally untrue

A president can grant amnesty (a general pardon). For example, amnesty was given to those who fled to canada to avoid the vietnam draft. This allowed them to return with out fear of prosecution.

Also - NO charges need to be filed in order to be pardoned. (see: Nixon) More than likely on November 3rd bush will grant pardons to him self and all others he has been involved with.

[Cyrix]

21. Totally untrue

A president can grant amnesty (a general pardon). For example, amnesty was given to those who fled to canada to avoid the vietnam draft. This allowed them to return with out fear of prosecution.

Also - NO charges need to be filed in order to be pardoned. (see: Nixon) More than likely on November 3rd bush will grant pardons to him self and all others he has been involved with.

edit: I apolgize for the triple post. Seems you must click once only...

[eataTREE]

3. Executive pardons aren't subject to review.

Once you're pardoned, that's it. No legal power can reverse a Presidential pardon.

[hobbit709]

4. Ford pardoned Nixon

[txindy]

5. The good news is, Junior can't give pardons that are valid internationally

The Hague still looms for him and his thugs. :toast:

[jmowreader]

7. Well, there is that

There is also this: Bush specializes in locking up people without charges--Gitmo is full of them. And since there's no constitutional basis for this, and in fact it's specifically prohibited BY the constitution...

[txindy]

9. True. I'd also like to know who would pardon Junior, himself?

He's not a sharing kind of guy, to put it mildly, so he's not going to pardon everyone else and leave himself wide open to prosecution. Especially not with pardoned witnesses against him. Ford pardoned Nixon, but surely President Kerry wouldn't pardon B*sh. The best way to get back the respect of the world is for an honest investigation and, if warranted (which I know it will be), prosecution of crimes.

[Cyrix]

27. It's pretty simple

Bush has two choices

1. Pardon him self

OR

2. Not pardon him self and risk spending life in jail.

Now - knowing his character - what do you think he is more likely to do?

Also - let's not forget one of the trademarks of these people - cronyism. It's basically the cardinal rule. These people would not be where they are with out it. They ALWAYS return favors. Bush will pardon anyone who has assisted him. That's how these people work. Everyone should know this by now.

[txindy]

31. He can't pardon himself

That's ludicrous. Did Nixon pardon himself? God knows he would've if he could've. He would've pardoned himself repeatedly and stayed in office.

[charlie]

32. There's no prohibition

against a president pardoning himself. There's no precedent, so perhaps we can look to Dubya to establish one.

[Fescue4u]

33. Its pretty easy really.

Bush pardons Cheney.
Bush resigns (1 day or 1 hour before the end of his term)
Cheney (now president), pardons civilian Bush.
Cheney term then ends 1 day or 1 hour later

New president takes over.

[aden_nak]

6. Double Jeopardy.

[ProgressiveDave]

8. He can't pardon someone who hasn't been charged yet, can he?

Doesn't someone have to be charged with a crime before they can be pardonned for it?

[On the Road]

11. Nixon Hadn't Been Charged When Ford Pardoned Him

so there's a precedent. But that's the one wrinkle that might be challenged.

[Cyrix]

23. Actually there are hundreds of precedents

Amnesty was given to all those who fled to canada to avoid the vietnam draft. Many of those were never charged. That's a rather large precedent.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi ProgressiveDave!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[smirkymonkey]

14. That's what I'm wondering.

To pardon his administration before they are officially charged with anything is an admission of wrongdoing. First of all, can he do it? And secondly, he has to pardon them for SOMETHING, so will he go public with what that SOMETHING is?

[charlie]

16. The "something" Ford pardoned Nixon for

was crimes he committed, or may have committed, against the United States. No details, no admission of particulars, just a full blanket pardon.

[MADem]

25. Remember CAP THE KNIFE WEINBERGER?

Big Bush pardoned him faster than a hummingbird after he said he was not gonna go down alone, and was gonna sing like a canary, and anyone who thought about making him disappear had better think again, because he left detailed instructions!! Cap walked, and kept his silence in exchange.

[Ready4Change]

10. Can Bush pardon himself?

?

[Cyrix]

24. Yes

and he will before he leaves office. Bank on it.

[txindy]

34. No.

If he could, Nixon wouldn't have resigned. He would've pardoned himself and continued merrily on his way through his term in office. No one can pardon himself.

[charlie]

35. Yes, he can

There are no constitutional prohibitions against presidential self-pardons.

If Nixon had pardoned himself, he would've been impeached. And that's an act that can't be reversed by a pardon. So, he would've been bounced one way or another.

[txindy]

36. There are no constitutional prohibitions against a LOT of things

That doesn't mean they'll hold up in court.

[charlie]

37. Doesn't mean it won't, either

Mere outrage isn't enough for a court to issue a ruling that isn't supported by intent explicit or implicit in the constitution. Pardons are pretty much outside the purview of anyone other than the president.

[txindy]

39. Fine by me

Let's put that theory to the test. Let's see him try it. He's dumb enough.

[charlie]

40. Heh, he's dumb enough alright

But no way they'd let him, they'd lock him in the basement and invent a health crisis first. He'd get away with it, but the Republicans would suffer a bloodbath in 2006. Nixon's resignation put their ascendence on ice for over a decade, I doubt they'd let that happen again.

[txindy]

41. Hee! Good point!

Now I really want him to try it! ;)

[donkeyotay]

12. pardons need to exclude covering up the admin's own criminal conduct

I'm so ignant I don't even know where the power to pardon comes from (Constitution, perhaps?) BUT I think pardons should not be used for covering up criminal conduct. The law need to be updated to the circumstances of today, where we face the threat of having a criminal government that abuses that power to avoid accountability.

[Cyrix]

26. Direct from the constitution, correct

Since it is a power granted in the constitution it would require a constitutional amendment to change. After bush pardons him self in a few days (and the details of his regime come out fully in the coming months) there may be enough public out cry to fix the system. Of course Nixon got away with it so who knows.

Also - I would recommend all who have never read the constitution to do so. It takes under an hour, and frankly it's important for everyone to be at least somewhat familiar with.

[Abelman]

43. While you're at it..

read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. A fairly good education in what our Founding Fathers were thinking.

[Wilber_Stool]

15. This is just off the top of my head

but I think he can pardon someone before they are charged. I believe it was done during Iran-Contra investigations. I bet somebody around here knows.

[Eugene]

18. Exactly right. Bush 41 pardoned the whole Iran-Contra gang

including Casper Weinberger, just before
he was to stand trial.

Then again, Bill Clinton pardoned his brother Roger
who was under investigation for influence peddling.

:dem:

[camero]

17. Either pardons should be done away with or

they should be submitted to Congress for review before they become pardons. Like a parole board hearing. Too many presidents have abused this perk of office. Including Clinton.

[Cyrix]

28. Unfortunately

It would require a constitutional amendment to fix.

[Cyrix]

22. Yes

Only through constitutional amendment. No other method exists to reverse a pardon.

[idiosyncratic]

29. Pardons? They don't think they've done anything wrong . . .

There won't be any pardons because that would be admitting they did something wrong. These "people" will never do that.

[Cyrix]

30. Riiigghhhttt

They don't think they've done anything wrong. So basically you're saying they have no malicious intent in their actions. What, do they "think" they are doing right? Please.

Bush might be a moron, but cheney/rove/et al know full well what will happen if pardons are not issued. It will either be "admitting they did wrong" OR "spending life in jail". Pretty simple choice. Somehow I doubt it's beyond cheney & roves ability to grasp.

[Ladyhawk]

38. What if it's proven that the president wasn't legally the president?

That would invalidate everything he's done since taking office.

Quite a stretch, huh? I really doubt that approach will work, but I can dream.

[PBX9501]

42. NO

The system was designed with that in mind. Untouchable.

[eleny]

44. If he pardons his entire administration -

It would have to be a death knell for the Republican Party, dontcha think? The loss of credibility would have to be a conclusion since noone would even have been indicted for anything, yet. The midterm elections would be a slaughter.