DU *PRACTICING* Catholics - what's you're take on Pope John Paul II?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

I'm not interested in what Fallen Away or non-practicing Catholics think in this thread. Thanks. :)

[calico1]

1. He's an idiot. n/t

[St. Jarvitude]

3. Amen. And we're in line for yet another Old Guard pope next time

It's really too bad there aren't many great liberal Catholic cardinals of any notoriety, especially after Bernardin (Chicago) died in '96 :( The only one I can think of off the top of my head (unfortunately, I'm not all that familiar with international cardinals) is Mahony (LA), but there is a greater chance of a Nader landslide on Tuesday than Mahony being elevated into the papacy.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

6. Th Capuchin archbishop who took over Boston is pretty good

maybe he'll be cardial one day

[Inland]

2. Election Tuesday. No need to throw bombs into the room, is there?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

4. Mea Culpa

I just was wondering if DU Catholics lean more anti or pro.

[Javaman]

5. He's an old crust that needs to step down before he falls down....

and be replaced with a forward thinking pope. Just someone else that will pull them out of the 13th century.

[Demit]

7. oh well, excuse us. --fallen-away Catholic

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

8. Lighten up - I just wanted the practicing view IN THIS THREAD

sheesh

[Dorian Gray]

9. I am a practicing Catholic.

I have great respect for the man, and I admire that he lives his principles. I know many here disagree with the position of the Catholic Church on many social issues, and that's fair enough.

JPII did some wonderful work during World War II for the Jewish in Poland. He's spent years trying to defeat Communism in Poland. He spent his life in prayerful submission to God's Will, and he (as far as Popes go) shows humility.

Of course, he is old and suffering from Parkinsons now. I don't believe that he is in control of his faculties, and I don't like that some of the administrators in the Vatican have a larger political hand than they would have in other circumstances. The fact that many in the Vatican are making decisions that should be left up to the Pope angers me. So, I hope that he peacefully passes.

So, yes, I have reverence for the man. I don't worship him or think he's infallible, for he is a human being.

And I usually avoid talking about religion here, as it is often a very cut-throat topic. But, I thought that I'd add a positive voice in there for JPII, as I see many people think the opposite of what I do.

[AngryOldDem]

11. Thanks for this post

Expresses my feelings exactly. Laugh and mock if you all must, but I truly feel JPII has been touched by God. I feel he is one of the last, remaining linchpins holding this world's sanity together. I am a convert to Catholicism, and it will be a very sad day for me when he goes.

[CatholicEug]

10. Well, I'm a practicing Catholic, so ... :)

Before I answer this question, let me say that I'm dismayed that some can easily dismiss this pope as "an idiot." We're talking about a man who:

Speaks seven or eight languages
Has penned several plays
Has written over a dozen books on philosophy and theology
Has taken a bullet and has forgiven his assassin
Has been credited by Lech Walesa for energizing the anti-communist movement in Poland and Eastern Europe

If John Paul II is an idiot, what does that make you? What does that make me? And what does that make the numerous commentators who have pored over his works?

To answer the question asked:

I think this papacy will be hailed as one of the high points of the Catholic Church's 2,000 year history ... there's no doubt in my mind that John Paul II will be made a doctor of the church within 50 years (for those not in the know, the various "Doctors" of the Church are those whose moral teachings are considered indicative of the Church's teachings as a whole ... think Aquinas, Augustine, Theresa of Avila, etc.).

JPII has done much to affirm and re-affirm the teachings of the Church and Christ. Also, he and the Curia have done to affirm moral teachings on the dignity of humanity ... teachings that have their roots in Aristotle, as well as Augustine and Aquinas.

Naturally, there will be objections to this ...
For instance, very progressive Catholics decry this pope because of his opposition to abortion and stem-cell research and contraception. To these, I challenge you to read "Theology of the Body" to see where the Church gets this teaching ... it's not that the Church is out to ruin everyone's good time! Drawing on Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas and Ockham, the Church has taught the dignity of the person , starting with its most vulnerable state. Contraception, too, is to be rejected, because it denies the very act of creation God gives to us.


I admire and join progressive Catholics who call for greater worker rights, and promote the dignity of the human being (in whom Christ abides) over profit. But to those very progressive Catholics who attack the Church's position on abortion, contraception, stem-cell research, etc., I say that you have become disciples of Descartes instead of your true calling to be children of Mary.

The modern-Cartesian world treats the body as stuff ... mere mechanical means of locomotion to move around the intellect/soul/spirit. In the modern view, the body becomes a plaything, something to exploit so we can realize our own self-preservation. The Church and this pope flatly reject this view, because it denies the very soul that penetrates and suffues the body. We don't HAVE a body ... we ARE a body, and more.

At any rate, this Pope has done much to synethize philosophy and theology ... his teachings have been praised and attacked. And that's OK. Like Christ, the Church and her teachers (being the Body of Christ), are a "sign to be contradicted ... a stumbling block for the world ..."

[leftchick]

12. I pretty much ignore what he has to say....

I have ignored all of the Popes.