Just saw the Al-Jazeera tape of Bin Laden

[Cleita]

on BBC America. I don't know. He doesn't look like he's aged a day since before Tora Bora. Anyone else see it? It's kind of suspicious.

[sangh0]

1. "Anyone else see it?"

That's a rhetorical question, right?

[Cleita]

2. How would you like me to state this?

I aim to please, however, I think you know I mean't anyone on DU at this time who read my post.

[phylny]

11. I haven't seen it. n/t

[goodhue]

17. I have not seen it.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. It doesnt seem to be necessary to use an actor who resembles Osama

In a way, that's good news. Quite a savings of tax dollars. Finding a guy who looked like Osama AND had acting talent would have been much more expensive.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. "Suspicious"?? How much older do you look from 3 yrs ago?

[Cleita]

5. I look three years older.

My hair is grayer and my crows feet more pronounced. My hair is cut differently and I have gained some weight. I would think Osama, considering he's been living in a cave with a dialysis machine would look much older and thinner. Just my speculation.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. How do you know he's been "living in a cave with a dialysis machine"?....

Is it because the NeoCons and their captive mainstream press told you so, and you believed it?

[Cleita]

16. If you have kidney failure, like they said he had, then

you either need to get dialysis or a transplant. Otherwise you die in a matter of months from uremic poisoning and pernicious anemia. It's possible he got a transplant, which would explain his well-being. If he put out the kidney failure thing to throw us off, you can't blame me for speculating about it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. And you believe that he has had kidney problems? Where did that...

....story originate?

[txindy]

28. We got the kidney story from this administration.

As far as I'm concerned, that explains everything. They wanted us to think he was immobile somewhere, possibly dying. :eyes: Not even close. OBL looked as I expected him to look considering he's got a very long beard that covers a lot of his face.

[lookaround]

6. After three years of this administration?

I look older. Much older. And more worried. And sadder. If you don't look aged by the last three years, you haven't been paying attention!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. Oh, I've been paying attention...but I don't think the same can....

...be said for some of the more recent posters on DU.

[chookie]

7. I disagree

He looked as though he had aged -- not as much as BUSH has though.

The sentiments he expressed are consistent with those he has made in the past. People who know him or have met him all describe a modest, soft-spoken man.

I believe this tape is authentic. bin Laden is not "crafty" -- he is actually very straight-forward.

Personally, I think his position is that he doesn't care WHO wins tuesday, because as far as he is concerned, the positions of the two candidates on the issues he is concerned about -- like Israel -- are identical. Gee, he's correct about that. He's being very honest and straightforward. I prefer the truth rather than some dramatic cartoon-version of the world. He is a far more subtle enemy than most people realize.... and, uh, subtle is far more dangerous.

And THAT's why I feel very strongly that Kerry will be the guy who will bring him down. Kerry has a subtle mind as well.

[pretzel4gore]

8. what about the military 'exercise' that was held on....sept 11/01?

did mr bin laden arrange that too? did he arrange geebush's trifecta remarks? did he put the terrorist passport in the rubble of the wtc for an fbi man to find on sept 14th? did mr bin laden arrange for the pictures of terrorist to be located and published within hours of the bush criminals claiming it was he, bin laden, responsible for 911? did bin laden make the bush gang proven criminal in the first place? did bin laden corrupt foxnews/cnn and the rest of the fukken mediawhores?

[Cleita]

9. So why is he wearing the same clothes?

His beard hasn't changed? Seems peculiar to me.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Why did Castro wear the same basic outfit for nearly fifty years?....

You do understand that he, like Osama, had more than one change of clothing, don't you?

[Cleita]

26. Yes, but Castro wore a uniform.

Whatever Osama wears is everyday street garb and can change. I mean even the folds on his turban look the same. Honestly, I don't care how big of a fuss budget you are, getting those twists and turns in exactly the same place each time has got to be tricky.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. Oh, good grief. That's what folks like Osama wear on a daily basis...

...in the Middle East. That IS their "uniform" of choice.

And you can tell that Osama's clothing is folded exactly the same way as it has been folded in all of his other videos and still photos?

Very interesting.

Please...now you're REALLY starting to sound ridiculous.

[Cleita]

35. Apparently, I sounded ridiculous to you from the beginning

so your attacks are becoming less than objective. Since that is the case I don't think if I took you to wherever Osama is and showed him to you in person, on a dialysis machine that it would make any difference in the fact that you think you are right and that I am ridiculous.

[Kanary]

38. I'm sorry you're being attacked on this, Cleita

Even though I can't see the attacks, I'm going to speak up about it, because it's so clear that Osama et al isn't our only problem. Sometimes we Dems are our own worst enemy!

It's time that we also look to our own selves, and see how we Dems hold back ourselves and our party and our country.

Using each other as punching bags to relieve our own tension is certainly counter-productive!

I appreciate your comments, Cleita, and wish there wasn't all the interruptions.

Kanary

[txindy]

30. My impression, exactly.

Soft-spoken and subtle. I was very surprised, but I really shouldn't have been, I suppose. I had built him up in my mind into some version of a ranting, raving Hitler, but he isn't. Not at all. He calmly explained why he murdered all of those people. That's why it was so unnerving to me. That tape was authentic and that was Osama bin Laden.

Yes, I do believe that John Kerry has the skills to take OBL down, too. I really do.

[thomas_a]

10. bin Laden's Appearance

I think bin Laden's well-groomed and healthy looking appearance indicates that he is hiding in a fairly safe and comfortable location rather than scurrying from cave to cave for the past three years as some would have us believe.

[Cleita]

12. My husband is on dialysis and he's aged and deteriorated considerably

in the last three years. Three years ago he could walk without assistance, now he needs a walker. So the only other thing I can assume is that he got a transplant somehow. It could be possible if he went to a country with fairly modern medical facilities and a lot of dead bodies to match up a kidney with. Still he should have aged more unless a face lift was part of the surgery.

[thomas_a]

14. Is bin Laden On Dialysis?

Is it really true that bin Laden is on dialysis? I always thought that was speculation but had never been confirmed as being highly reliable.

[Cleita]

20. It's been mentioned a lot, even by Howard Dean a doctor.

There were a lot of stories about it back after 9-11. It was also said that he had purchased a dialysis machine and traveled with a doctor when on the run in Afghanistan. I think personally they sneaked him into Pakistan and he got the hospital care he needed there before he left for places unknown. I mean that's if he survived. I don't think he survived though and these tapes are edited from earlier tapes with new messages IMHO.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. And Dean got that information from....???

[Cleita]

24. Reliable sources?????

Really, why would he say it if it wasn't commonly accepted knowledge? Like I said if you have a source please post it. I will try to find some archives in the meantime for the kidney failure story, which incidentally all mention of Osama disappeared from the media when we geared up for invading Iraq, then it was Osama bin forgotten. Remember?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. To what "reliable sources" are you referring?....

What "reliable sources" are you using these days? The NY Times? The Washington Post? Newsweek? Time? Which of those sources, or any other source you may be currently using, has not printed a story that has been proven over time to be false?

Which story have you believed in the past? Was it the "Iraq has WMDs" story? Or was it the "Saddam and Al Qaeda are working together" story? Or maybe you liked the series of stories about minimizing civilian casualties in Iraq? That was shot to hell this week with the report about more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed during the course of this illegal and completely unnecessary war.

I remember the "kidney" story about OBL...just another red herring thrown into the pot for the consumption of the all-too-gullible masses.

Here's the REAL question about OBL....how can this man continue to live as he probably does if he had kidney disease to the extent to which we have been told?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. And you believe the "Osama on dialysis" story because.....??

[Cleita]

23. It was widely reported after 9-11 as fact.

Now if everyone lied all over the world, then someone perpetrated a really big hoax. If you have any sources that say that Osama didn't have kidney failure well post then. The truth is what matters.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. Ohhhh....the old "widely reported as fact" maneuver....

...and you're trusting the U. S. captive mainstream media that has lied almost constantly for the last 12 years?

I don't have to prove anything...I'm going on the track record for veracity of our illustrious mainstream media for the last 12 years.

And yes...the truth does matter, but neither one of us knows the truth about OBL other than what we're being told to believe. Doesn't that make you more than a little nervous to be so blindly trusting?

[Cleita]

27. What if I go someplace else in the world?

You really have made up your mind that you are right. I am not trying to trick you. What I said is an honest statement and if you want to deconstruct it, please do, but don't just sit their and say the media is all of it dishonest.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Don't sit there and tell me that the media hasn't lied to the American...

...people on a consistent and widespread basis for the last 12 years. If you haven't noticed what they've been doing then that's YOUR problem, not mine.

Since you're the one trying to convince me that the American press is actually an honest conveyor of the truth and the American way, maybe you can provide me with ONE single source that has not outright lied and/or perpetrated the lies of others over the last several years.

Just one source. Just one.

[Zhade]

33. Here's a non-U.S. source for you.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html

Dubai, one of the seven emirates of the Federation of the United Arab Emirates, North-East of Abi-Dhabi. This city, population 350,000, was the backdrop of a secret meeting between Osama bin Laden and the local CIA agent in July. A partner of the administration of the American Hospital in Dubai claims that public enemy number one stayed at this hospital between the 4th and 14th of July.

Having taken off from the Quetta airport in Pakistan, bin Laden was transferred to the hospital upon his arrival at Dubai airport. He was accompanied by his personal physician and faithful lieutenant, who could be Ayman al-Zawahari--but on this sources are not entirely certain--, four bodyguards, as well as a male Algerian nurse, and admitted to the American Hospital, a glass and marble building situated between the Al-Garhoud and Al-Maktoum bridges.

Each floor of the hospital has two "VIP" suites and fifteen rooms. The Saudi billionnaire was admitted to the well-respected urology department run by Teerry Callaway, gallstone and infertility specialist. Dr Callaway declined to respond to our questions despite several phone calls.

As early as March, 2000, 'Asia Week,' published in Hong Kong, expressed concern for bin Laden's health, describing a serious medical problem that could put his life in danger because of "a kidney infection that is propagating itself to the liver and requires specialized treatment". According to authorized sources, bin Laden had mobile dialysis equipment shipped to his hideout in Kandahar in the first part of 2000. According to our sources, bin Laden's "travels for health reasons" have taken place before. Between 1996 and 1998, bin Laden made several trips to Dubai on business.

Now, this could still be wrong. But as you were berating the other poster about U.S. media, well, here's a non-U.S. media source. Make of it what you will.

:shrug:

[Cleita]

34. Is Snopes good enough for you?

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/kidney.htm

There is a bibliography of sources at the bottom of the page. Unfortunately, sources from the Guardian and LeFigaro were too outdated to bring up. I suppose we could get Randi Rhodes on this to ferret out the truth once and for all.

I personally don't think he's still alive myself.

[eablair3]

36. WHERE CAN THE TAPE BE SEEN ONLINE? Transcript?

geez,... all these people on TV that talk about it and its meaning, but none have seen it.

Where is it available?

are there any transcripts?

[Cleita]

37. There's a link posted on this thread,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2558251&mesg_id=2558251