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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 05:28 PM
Original message
BBV:NEW STORIES: Are we insane? Voting without auditing?
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 05:32 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
Three hours missing from King County audit log:

OK folks. We now have what everyone keeps saying no one can come up with. We now have evidence that certainly looks like altering a computerized voting system during a real election, and it happened just six weeks ago. Diebold says altering the audit log cannot be done. When we taught a chimpanzee to delete audit records using an illicit "back door" to get into the program, Diebold said it was a "magic show."

Decide for yourself who's telling the truth.

We obtained these documents through a public records request. The video was taken at a press conference held by the King County elections chief Friday Oct 29. The audit log is a computer-generated automatic record similar to the "black box" in an airplane, that automatically records access to the Diebold GEMS central tabulator (unless, of course, you go into it in the clandestine way we demonstrated on September 22 in Washington DC at the National Press club. We hope to have the complete video of that online this weekend. It also shows alteration of the Sequoia central tabulator and a demonstration of audit log manipulation.)

The central tabulator audit log is an FEC-required security feature. The kinds of things it detects are the kinds of things you might see if someone was tampering with the votes: Opening the vote file, previewing and/or printing interim results, altering candidate definitions (a method that can be used to flip votes).

Three hours is missing altogether from the Sept. 14 Washington State primary held six weeks ago.

Here is a copy of the GEMS audit log.

Note that all entries from 9:52 p.m. until 1:31 a.m. are missing.

One report that GEMS automatically puts in the audit log is the "summary report." This is the interim results report. We obtained the actual Sept. 14 summary reports, printed directly from the King County tabulator GEMS program, because we went there and watched on election night and collected these reports. These reports were also collected by party observers, candidates, and were on the Web site for King County.

Here are summary reports which are now missing from the audit log.

Note the time and date stamps on the reports. Note also that they are signed by Dean Logan, King County elections chief. We have the original reports signed in ink on election night.

What does all this mean?

We can confirm by looking at hundreds of actual elections run on GEMS, and by reviewing the GEMS user manual, and by looking at King County's own audit log, that the printing of a summary report is logged in the GEMS audit log. Therefore, if reports were printed, we would expect to see them in the audit log.

Perhaps there are two audit logs? Perhaps this is an incomplete one?

Bev Harris called King County elections office records employee Mary Stoa, asking if perhaps there are any other audit logs at all. Mary Stoa called back, reporting that according to Bill Huennikens of King County elections, the audit log supplied to us in our public records request is the only one and the comprehensive and complete one.

Perhaps it is a computer glitch?

The audit log is 168 pages long and spans 120 days, and the 3 hours just happen to be missing during the most critical three hours on election night.

Dean Logan held a press conference Friday morning, Oct. 29. Kathleen Wynne, a citizen investigator for Black Box Voting, attended the press conference and asked Dean Logan why three hours are missing from the audit log.

Here is a video clip

Note that Dean logan said he had looked at the audit log, and stated that the reason information is missing from the audit log is that no reports were printed during that time frame.
Reporters: Some election officials won't be telling the truth on election day.

Here is Dean Logan, telling a Channel 5 King-TV News reporter that there were no unexpected problems with the Diebold programs. This was at the "MBOS" central ballot counting facility in King County in the wee hours of Sept. 15, on Election Night.

Dean Logan lying to the public on Election Night, Sept 14 2004

Note that he says there were no problems with modem transmission.

Now, Black Box Voting is very concerned about modems, because we have now discovered exactly how insecure the modem setup to the Diebold central tabulator really is. County officials are proud to tell you they do not connect their central tabulator to the Internet. They also typically do not apply the Windows patches on their central server. This can be determined by examining the time and date stamps on certain files. (We asked for screen shots in public records requests, and found file time and date stamps very interesting.)

Diebold uses a "DigiBoard" device that cannot be configured to transmit unless the security is left wide open. Anyone can find this out, because information on the Diebold "Digiboard" setup with Diebold was contained in the files Diebold left on the FTP site found by Bev Harris in January 2003.

OK. Hit the web site for DigiBoards, check out the user and troubleshooting manuals, and those of you who are computer buffs will see that any county official who uses the Diebold RAS setup on their unpatched Windows central tabulator on election night together with modems and the DigiBoard, is pretty much inviting the world to take control of the election while sitting in their living room.

No, we are not talking about just replacing memory card information, the electronic "ballot box" data. We are talking about taking total control of the central server.

This is invisible to the county supervisor. Party observers cannot see the intrusion at all. It leaves no record, even in the audit log, if you take advantage of back doors like VBA vote-shaving scripts, which cannot be disabled in Windows 2000 and Windows XP, the system used with Diebold central tabulators.

Yes, we are very concerned about modem use. All modems should be disabled on Election Night. Dean Logan told the Seattle Times and KING-TV Channel 5 reporter Linda Brill that he was not going to use modems. That was a good decision.

Except that, too, was a lie: We observed at least 24 modems hooked up to the DigiBoard on Sept. 14, and in a public records request, found instructions to the poll workers to use the modems from depot locations.

Thus, the only thing protecting King County from electronic rape via remote access on Election Night was the so-called secrecy of the access phone number. No one has that, we've been told.

So imagine our surprise, when we obtained the trouble slips, in a public records request -- documentation that indeed the modems were not working fine, as Logan said while starring in our Election Night videotape. Well, in these modem trouble slips, we were accidentally given the access phone number for King County.

Congratulations, King County. Were we so inclined, if we had simply kept this under our hat, we could take control of your central server on election night from our living room. Thank you for handing over the access numbers in the public records request.

Here are the trouble slips showing problems with modems. Note that King County generously provided us with the "secret" information needed to hack in by remote access. We did redact the specific information that gives this information to you.

Here are more trouble tickets. Our personal favorite: "OK to format memory card?" This will wipe out the votes in the electronic ballot box.

Election officials: Disconnect those modems NOW. If you don't: You gotta be replaced.
Reporters: Some election officials will lie to you. Show your kids what bravery looks like. Be courageous. Report the truth.
Citizens: Please help us by joining the Cleanup Crew. For now, e-mail crew@blackboxvoting.org to join, since our signup form has been taken out.
Candidates: Make a statement. Do not concede on Election Night. Wait until audits and records can be examined.

www.blackboxvoting.org
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's going to be a fucking mess.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fuck ObL. THIS IS HUGE.
:dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem:
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. My friend in Florida....
...is already concerned about her vote because of the early voting problems down there.

Passed the BBV website on to her yesterday. :)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. kick
:kick:
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. And Remember....
"King County is famous for it"
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. What is insane
is the mega-bucks spent on machines with their al-caca reliability. Yes, too many too many ARE sick of mind from consuming SHIT.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. omg.....
:crazy: :grr: :mad: ....
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. Of course
I don;t even need to read the post to answer that.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Like a deer in the headlights
They are going to cheat on these computers! It is clear as day, and
there will always be some quesiton of legality over this poll for
centuries to come. I see they're planning to cheat on the computers.
I feel like chicken little, but i swear the sky is falling. :-)

Votes will be missed, and not counted. People should carry their own
ballots to the polls to mark in case the computers are failed. A
giant power outage, modem failures, or a lost hard drive will be
blamed for 1000's of lost votes.

So a deer has lept out in front of the car, and it is too close to
stop, so its that 2 second pause of infinity before impact. What to
do if they cheat using the computers but make it plausibly deniable.
Jeb has planned to throw the poll, that is as sure as day, and when
decent people vote in good faith, criminals format hard disks and
lose audit logs in bad faith.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, most of this country is insane, and yes, we're going to have to learn
the hard way.

And, the insanity isn't just one-sided.

So much for being "lucky" to be American.

Crap.

Thanks for all your efforts on this. I hope it ends up scaring a lot of people sane.

Kanary
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. crap
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Kick
:kick:
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Everybody read this... please....
:bounce:
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. Great work Andy and Bev....
... truly a recipe for chaos.

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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you Andy*
Am feeling like this is our latest *suffrage movement*. This deal is going to take us some time and alot of persistence (and a lot of camcorders*).
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. We will be coming out with specific measures
and things to ask for monday.
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The Minus World Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kick.
I just voted on a Diebold touchscreen in L.A.

"The Accuvote-TS units are standalone machines. They are not connected to the internet and cannot be accessed from any other computer. All computer software and hardware have passed all security requirements of the Federal and State government and have been approved for use by the Secretary of State of California. Any tampering with the Election equipment is a felony."

Somehow, I'm still not comfortable with any of this.

The guy in front of me decided to leave and and come back to on the 2nd, when he can use the InkaVote method.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. You should have asked for a paper ballot.
you are allowed to do so in Ca.
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The Minus World Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. I did.
My girlfriend and I voted at seperate polling places - I voted in Pasadena and she voted in Culver City. Both of us asked workers whether they provided an alternative to touchscreen voting, and both of our respective poll-workers said "no" in no uncertain terms.

When my girlfriend said, "Well, I wasn't expecting to vote touchscreen", the lady she spoke to said, "You're in the wrong place." I was met with a similar response after having the "touchscreen only" situation sprung on me 2 hours into my 3-hour wait in line.

The guy in front of me (apparently, he's worked with computers and is familiar with e-voting fraud) decided to leave the line once he heard that it was Diebold or nothing.

Perhaps I wasn't emphatic enough about requesting a paper ballot? I feel as though I wasn't given any real option.

I just saw a commercial that said "You can vote early by touchscreen" without any other qualifiers like "paper ballots will be made available."

Are you familiar with this problem? If so, is there anything I can do to make sure my vote was counted?
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Most places don't give a choice on early voting. But on election day...
if you still can't get a paper ballot, in California you have that right (not elsewhere) -- if you can't get one, or they ran out, immediately call 1-866-OUR-VOTE and also report to the Cleanup Crew Forum at http:BlackBoxVoting.ORG

Bev
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am confused
Why were the original polling report summaries released on the FOA?

Maybe I missing something. If I understand what is being said, the GEMS server was accessed at 21:??PM until 01:??AM. The poll summary between these times was flushed from GEMS and the audit log entries for this time period deleted.

Now as I understand what is being said, there is backup paper from the polling site summary reports which were indeed printed between the times when the audit log says nothing was printed, of which you have obtained on a FOA. Now the summary reports you have show print times between the time period when the audit log say's nothing was printed and they are the originals, released to you.

This sounds like clear vote tampering. Somebody accessed the GEMS and also somebody that is at the GEMS physical location where the printers are did not cross reference the poll summary reports with the totals indicated by GEMS. If they had they would have seen a descripancy in the totals for all polls and the totals for all summary reports added up manually. Or am I missing something?

And the paper summaries show overwelming Dem majority in the ones not show being printed by the audit log.

Gee, shouldn't the DA be putting somebody on the hot seat and injunctions issued. Is there time before the election? This is vote fraud, simular to 'losing' boxes of ballots that show up in some deputies trunk years later.
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claudiajean Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Just to clarify...
What's wrong with the picture is that there were clearly vote total summary reports generated during the time from 9pm-ish to 1am-ish that the audit log shows no activity.

There is no claim that the vote totals were altered, only that the audit log was altered to remove three hours' worth of entries. It is important to make that distinction.

And the reason the audit log was likely altered was to hide the problems King County, WA encountered on primary election night, when they were misleading their official observers, members of the press, and public that there were absolutely no anomalies in the way the computer tabulation systems worked on primary election night. These problems included massive meltdown of modem functionality and and upload failure, as well as the computer crash during that time period. Having told the public that everything ran fine, they had a vested interest in hiding evidence to the contrary from the audit log.

The vote summary reports are not the "poll summary reports". These are total summary reports generated from the same machine and election database as the audit log.

These reports include totals of all vote totals reported at that point in the evening, as well as the absentee ballots counted during the day, and released to the public after the polls closed.

And just to show that Black Box Voting is not a partisan issue, the elections director in question is a Democrat.

;)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks CJ
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 10:52 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
I figured if this thread needed clarification you would be able to do it. You really seem knowledgeable. Were you involved in elections once before? It would seem so...I have read several of your posts and they are spot on!

:thumbsup:
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claudiajean Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yeah, I know a little something about election administration...
...but I have also been following the BBV reports on the King County problems so I understood what you were talking about with your new information. They seem to be a county with problems along the lines of Riverside, CA, Becks, PA, and the infamous Palm Beach...

Although if I mention "election administration", this whole thread will probably get moved to the Lounge again to die a sad and lonely death with the cat pictures and threads about nachos (like my 100th post - election administration thread did)! :)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I didn't see that one....
Damn...Congrats on the 100th post...although I can see now you are well on your way to more than that!

Glad you are here with us at DU. Your insight is always welcome!


:)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. There's more. Here's what Andy didn't include here
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 10:22 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
Woops, this is Bev. Andy was signed in on my computer.

Logan said the empty three hours is because no reports were printed. OK. But we have summary reports from 10:34 p.m., 11:38 p.m., 12:11 a.m., 12:46 a.m., and 1:33 a.m. These reports were during the time he said no reports were run. Either the software malfunctioned, or audit log items were deleted.

The reports themselves are published on our Web site, and we have Dean Logan's signature on each report, in the original ink.

One more thing, and this is exactly the type of thing that makes you sit up and take notice when you are researching embezzlement: There is a report that does appear on the audit log, but we have the original report for that, too, and the date stamp is not the same. About 20 minutes off, in fact. Both the summary report time stamp and the audit log time stamp come from the same source.

Supposedly.

Dean Logan. Gotta be replaced. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. (from Bev) one more thing: Dean Logan was the state elections director
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 10:06 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
Immediately before he accepted the position as Director of Records and Elections for King County, he was the Washington State Elections Director.

Bev
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. you know..this is gonna go on all over the country
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 11:07 PM by JellyBean1
its like every state has these guys dug in..maybe not all state..but I bet there is enough to clear any hurdles for bush

I hate to sound so pessimistic..but there isn't enoough time to stop them..IMO.

How could they finjd so many self serving people to do this..on this scale? I think pussy footing around by the DLC has helped this along..The DLC at local and state levels.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
26. Have you talked to nov3.us about this?
Edited on Fri Oct-29-04 11:22 PM by Ladyhawk
Anyone else? Michael Moore?
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. The first two links are broken....
....but I see the site has had some unscheduled maintenance. :(

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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. CORRECTED LINKS
the correct links are at http://www.blackboxvoting.org

second one above, I see, has wrong capitalization and is actually http://www.blackboxvoting.org/resultspages.PDF

but, also, the pages are going through some sporadic file corruptions, so we are uploading them again every few hours.

Bev
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. A kick before bed...
:kick:
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
31. kick
:kick:
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Briarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
32. What a mess
it's totally absurd that people are still buying that this system is better. As an engineer, I know that technology could help the election system, but bad, unreliable, insecure technology is not the answer. But I don't think the average person will notice until someone changes the vote so daffy duck wins 99% of a state. I'm not advocating tampering, just that most people don't get the accounting ideals and that this problem is getting no press. I have the feeling that this election is going to be 100 times worse that 2000.
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Well, it starts with properly trained elections administrators
Los Angeles County's Conny McCormick, for example, has gone on record saying that counting votes is not related to bookkeeping, and said on 60 Minutes that the solution to audits where there are discrepancies is to stop auditing.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kick
:kick:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
37. Diebold is lying. The industry they support demands paper trails.
If any hacker has the smarts, especially if it's someone on the inside, then YES, the log can be altered.

No paper trail is disgusting.

Those creeps are in the banking business and they know damn well that a paper trail is necessary, especially in cases of fraud.

I pity those who have to use the system.

Hold on folks, for November 2 may not be as decisive as we delude ourselves into thinking.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. An outside person can change it as well
it is quite easy to do.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
39. Yes the Republican leadership is insane and they run our country, atm (nt)
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. Pretty sobering, once again. The best we can hope for is that OUR guys
are the ones that hack the votes, and Kerry, along with Dem senate & house majorities can be the victors in this race, and then we can prosecute these racketeering assholes who have been hacking elections, and FINALLY create a voting system in this country that is as secure as your bank account -- at least.

Because to me, it's pretty apparent that SOMEBODY is going to hack the votes.....it might as well be us.

It makes my stomach upset that I would even hope for that. But the people who have been running the country have not only NOT been protecting Democracy, they've been intentionally trying to subvert our Democracy at every turn.

Makes me sick...

O8) Prayers for your continued success and safety, BBV Patriots! O8)

O8) And I pray that HELP is, INDEED, on the way!!! O8)

:kick::kick:
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Nope, Can't Go With Hacking
Besides, I don't believe honest, REAL Republicans would have anything to do with this.

There are always bad apples in every barrel, no matter the variety.

I want the people who may bring justice on this issue to stay well above board.

You know how the spin would work- the press would go the wrong way and the underlying problem never solved.

Another bit of information that I've picked up on research that I think is relevant- the history suggests influence by election officials and vendors from the very beginning, that has been funded by nonprofit organizations that "help" governments at all levels, and their funding seems to trace back to big business and big money.

That influence corrupts at all levels and across all party lines.

It's a nonpartisan problem and we have got to get PEOPLE back into the electoral process and we have got to get PEOPLE back into the government. Government has become a business run by business.

Going to be a long haul but we can fix this. First, we have to get our vote back.

So vote. Vote in numbers so large they can't finagle the outcome. Vote fraud depends on nonparticipation.

Already looks like they are getting more than they ever wanted in voter participation. People are waking up.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. But you MUST admit
it would blow the whole scam open if a state's write-ins returned a 99% WIN for Daffy Duck! Hey, I'm stressed-out and HUMOROUS THOUGHTS always bring down my bp! :evilgrin:
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Yep, that would do it
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 01:39 PM by RedEagle
My favorite is Marvin the Martian.

A whole Warner Brothers cartoon government.

And a Bugs Bunny, "Eh, what's up doc?" at the opportune moment.

But I digress.......


(Edit to correct sleep-deprived typing- which wasn't good to begin with)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. LA, GA , OK or OHIO
would be soooo perfect! It's JUST such a funny thought!
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Hmmmm.....
Marvin the Martian:

"Take me to your leader ........

.......... Wait, halt.

I see Diebold has made ME your leader...

... no, no recounts.

Ballots cannot be retrieved from a black hole."
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