OFFICIAL BIN LADEN TAPE DISCUSSION THREAD #1

[EarlG]

We try to be as lenient as possible about letting people start new threads, but we are getting a ton of pointless one-liners right now. So if a thought pops into your head about the bin Laden tape, instead of starting a new thread which will get two responses and then clog up the forum, try posting it here.

AT THIS TIME, WE ARE NOT INSTRUCTING THE MODS TO LOCK OR DELETE NEW THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT. But we reserve the right to do so if we think it is necessary.

Thanks,
EarlG (Admin)

[Rowdyboy]

1. Wonderful idea

Thanks :toast:

[Trajan]

2. Thanks Earl ....

Its a madhouse ....

[Dems Will Win]

51. FIGHT BACK MEME: OSAMA NOT YET CAUGHT BECAUSE OF IRAQ!

Sharpton was just on CNN with this and it was very effective argument it seems to me.

The Republican was dumbfounded by it and it changed the whole direction of the show.

When Paula Zahn came back with the Bush party line, Sharpton simply repeated it and made her question about this making new voters go Bush seem irrelevant.

OBL is still alive because Bush took his eye off the ball and we invaded Iraq.

Repeat this 50 times a day until Tuesday Night.

Thank You.

[Champion Jack]

3. Heres my thought:

Bush fucked up. He never got Osama.

[tjwash]

4. I'm not worried about him.

I really don't think about him that much, and he's probably dead.

Nice job "Mission Accomplished" boy...

[dogtag]

5. In a perfect world, both campaigns should completely

ignore the bin Laden tape. Pretend it didn't happen. That would be the best put down of Osama. Not going to happen, of course.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Did you guys see that cow on CNN earlier with the AEI?

Wolf Blitzer interviewed her and asked her about the Bin Laden tape as he mentioned * reading a book about a goat. She said it's nice to know that Michael Moore gives aid and comfort to the enemy. Wolf seemed kind of stunned that she would say that but he gave her the fucking opening to say it. I hate the both of them!

[txindy]

16. I have to wonder if more people might be open to seeing F9/11 now

:shrug: Just to figure out what these B*shies are referring to when they say nonsense like that.

[goodhue]

7. thank you

please consider locking

[mopaul]

8. they can spin till they puke, this does NOT HELP bush

fucking bizarre world we live in eh?

[tjwash]

17. The more those fascist jerks try to spin...

...the more they remind everyone of the fact that this asshole is still not in prison or dead, and is that he biggest failure of this arrogant administration.

Kerry should not even try spin this, instead he needs to call the GOP for trying to make political hay with the news. Getting involved in a spin war would only damage him.

[Sara Beverley]

44. Additional quotes from Bin Laden message today.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8BAF429F-BADD-40E2-AD66-712FCF7D7A95.htm

[mike_c]

9. I'm very curious about stories that the WH...

...pressured al-Jezeera to edit the tape before releasing it. I wonder what was edited? If the WH wanted it removed, it likely either reflected poorly on Bush, positively on Kerry, or undermined the demonization of the terra-ists (and consequently the war on terra scam).

on edit: my impression is that the WH would have preferred that OBL froth at the mouth a bit more, and maybe behead a white christian pre-schooler or two.

[txindy]

12. Pressured AlJazeera? They have no control over that network

That's what's had KKKarl spitting mad for so long, the graphic footage about the 'splendid' war coming out on AlJazeera.

But, if true, my word! What could have been cut that could be any more devastating to the entire B*sh family?! Telling the world that that family has lied to and betrayed the American people sounds like something KKKarl might've wanted cut, too. ;) These two paragraphs are damning enough for anyone, IMO:

"This resemblance became clear in the Bush the father's visits to the region. ... He wound up being impressed by the royal and military regimes and envied them for staying decades in their positions and embezzling the nation's money with no supervision.

He passed on tyranny and oppression to his son, and they called it the PATRIOT act, under the pretext of fighting terror. Bush the father did well in placing his sons as governors and did not forget to pass on the expertise in fraud from the leaders of the (Mideast) region to Florida to use it in critical moments."

[mike_c]

21. here's a link to the DU thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1219786

[Zhade]

22. They've pressured al Jazeera before...

...by targeting them militarily.

So! My question, so far unanswered in all the commotion: WHO TRANSLATED THIS TAPE, AND WHEN WAS IT FILMED?

[txindy]

26. We can't even control areas in Iraq, but we're targetting a network?

:eyes: Well, four more days. That's all.

[Zhade]

35. Remember the U.S. military killing aJ's guys in the Palestine hotel?

They have priorities, just not the ones we think they should.

[The Minus World]

59. Sadly, yes.

Have you ever seen the documentary "Control Room"?

I highly recommend it.

[Hutzpa]

13. I'm on that same line too......

my gut is telling me that this administration knows something was on that tape that will help Kerry.

[Sara Beverley]

42. I think you have a great point here. Is there an unedited translation ?

Maybe a foreign newspaper? I'm ging to check.

[txindy]

10. Thank you. I'm dizzy enough after seeing that tape

Too many threads to keep track of doesn't help!

[Hutzpa]

11. Can this be the October Surprise?

From listening to the tape closely, I think if anything this tape helps Kerry more than anything else.

But the media whores are going to spin it otherwise.

[earthside]

14. What Does Kerry Say?

I've heard this now from several talking heads on television: "Since the Osama tape puts terrorism on the front page again, what does Kerry say now?"

I don't understand.

bin Laden's reemergence to threaten us is a powerful reminder of another Bush failure; another mission UNacomplished.

Is there some reason Kerry cannot point this out?

It seems like a perfectly legitimate issue and one I have already heard several friends mention.

[Catt03]

15. It's time for delete

There are nine new threads.

[Qutzupalotl]

18. On the help/hurt question...

There are several scenarios in my mind.

1. The most obvious is that since OBL is still alive, all the mentioning Kerry did on the campaign trail and debates makes this a positive for Kerry.

2. Another is that this was predicted--that there would be something to remind the public of the terror threat right before the election. Of course, most people were envisioning leg irons, so I don't think this helps Bush.

3. The knee-jerk reaction among those who don't think is to rally behind the "leader". There will undoubtedly be some of that.

4. The conclusion many in the media are leaping to (or grasping at) is that any mention of OBL or 9/11 helps Bush with the general populace. If enough people believe that this will help Bush, it may make the right complacent and depress their turnout, with the certainty that Bush will win because of this. On the other hand, the bogeyman may increase his turnout. Hard to predict.

5. It might frighten the masses and keep them from the polls, fearing a terror attack. The ones most easily terrorized by this are Bush supporters. Fine by me if they stay home.

[mopaul]

19. the whole thing has a batman kind of plot to it

or superman, versus the arch villian and nemesis with the ugly deformity or weird power. bushman versus enigma!

also very orwellian of course, the evil, ugly enemy on the screen.

[Straight Shooter]

20. bush got Saddam. Kerry will get Osama

Simple as that.

Mr. bush, which one do you think Americans care more about?

[troublemaker]

23. OBL's discussion of IRAQ was not broadcast, was it?

Was it cut out at Bush admin's request?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1219786

[EarlG]

24. This is how big the disconnect from reality is right now

Someone in another thread noted that (paraphrasing): "The pundits are saying the tape HELPS Bush because it reminds people of his leadership on 9/11."

Astonishing, but true.

It's almost as if the bin Laden tape is making everyone say, "Hey, there's that September 11th guy. Wow, remember September 11th? Remember how great Bush was? Remember how he captured that guy... whatsisname..."

I mean, seriously. The right-wing's disconnect from reality is so big that the right-wing pundits are pushing the idea that bin Laden's sudden appearance helps Bush because it reminds people of how popular Bush was after 9/11.

As Mr. Mugatu once said, "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills."

[txindy]

27. It'll only help him with the KoolAid crowd.

They're hopeless, anyway.

[gardenista]

53. Perhaps, but it won't change anyone elses vote to Bush. Opposite. nt

[troublemaker]

28. fortunately there's a class of social events that *everyone* gets wrong

because we are all within the system we're trying to describe.

Nobody knows how this will play out. Nobody can.

[ReadTomPaine]

40. The pundit was none other than Andrea Mitchell.

Mrs. Alan Greenspan herself. Whenever she referred to the Bush Administration during her commentary, she said "we" or "us". She corrected herself the first time ("We..umm.. The Administration claim.. etc) but then didn't even bother for the rest of her statements.

RTP

[txindy]

57. Oh. Her.

:eyes: I can't wait until her husband retires. Maybe she'll drop the "we" when that happens. Maybe it'll be at President Kerry's inauguration. Or does she always have to be in the 'In' crowd? ;)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. The right was already organized with their talking points because the WH

knew this tape was going to be released. On one of the ten thousand threads on this subject that is now in the archives probably...it was alleged on one of the news channels that the WH asked Al Jazeera not to air this tape (frankly I think that part is pure crap)

The point is the WH KNEW this tape would be out and immediately pushed TALKING POINTS out to their talking heads prior to it airing.

A VERY BIG DEAL should be made of that....they PLANNED FOR THIS RELEASE FOLLOWING THE AMMO story this AM

[Philosophy]

25. Watch the tape BEFORE you fall for the right-wing spin!

The Republicans and their whore media are frantically spinning the fear factor to try to preempt people from paying any attention to the actual contents of the tape, which is in fact EXTREMELY damaging to *.

[troublemaker]

31. Please share your insight. What does it say? Where is it available?

[shraby]

32. I think it's interesting that our government

insisted that the tape be edited before being aired. Time to demand to see what was taken out.

[troublemaker]

34. Discussion of Iraq I think

[Deb]

29. Thanks I wanted to ask , Does anyone

think there is a connection between this new obl tape the WH tried to keep under wraps and the "secret" threat which caused Sen Dayton to close his office?

[Beam Me Up]

30. OOPS

Sorry about that :(

[troublemaker]

33. This is the FEB 11 statement, not today's

[EarlG]

37. That link goes to a transcript

of a video from February 2003, FYI.

[lazarus]

43. BBC current transcript

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm

It's just of the excerpts broadcast. Can't wait to see what was hidden.

[renegade000]

36. What Kerry needs to say:

"Mr. Bush, you've had three years to catch or kill the scumbag...I think its time for someone else to actually get the job done!"

[Laura Croft]

38. How convenient

They don't have Osama but suddenly a "tape" appears prior to the election.

[Philosophy]

39. CBS just scrubbed their story!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/29/terror/main652373.shtml

The story at this link earlier contained quotes from OBL making specific references to "My Pet Goat". Now that part is gone, and they've added a bunch of fear-mongering unrelated stuff about the Madrid train bombings.

[Socialist Dem]

41. Thanks EarlG!

As for the topic:

1. Osama making a tape shouldn't be that surprising or that big of a deal. He's not been captured, and he didn't say "If Shrub/Kerry is elected, we will attack." Thus, Sunday the talking heads will spin and on Monday, it's done.

2. Dirty tricks? There's a LOT more going down in Ohio, Florida, and other battleground states to worry about than this. Voter turnout is key now, not worrying about how some things might effect Kerry. If the Dems get a massive voter turnout, Kerry wins, end of story.

3. If you just can't drop this....ask yourself why the GOP didn't ever bring up bin Laden at their convention, or during their stump speeches, or during the debates, or....well, ever? Why, because Osama bin Laden committed the worst atrocity on US soil, and Shrubco has utterly failed to bring him or his group to justice. To me, bin Laden popping up now is just a big fat reminder of Shrubco's chief failure.

[Bossy Monkey]

45. Earl, could we get one of these in GD:C as well?

Lots and lots there, too.

[whosinpower]

46. I wonder.....

Instead of thinking that Bin Laden wants to affect the elections (as he released the tape just days before the election) what if a person were to take his words at face value?

I don't think he really cares WHO is in the White House. It is and has always been America's foreign policies particularily with Israel and the middle east.

Don't take this the wrong way - in no way whatsoever do I absolve Bin Laden of his crimes...but he is not the faceless enemy we have all been led to believe. They did not attack us because they blindly hate us.

His message - after I thought about it for awhile (digested it) was that WE can determine a more balanced foreign policy - and in that WE can be more secure. It is up to US to keep our government accountable. If we secede our responsibilities in that matter - WE can expect more attacks.
Don't flame me please.

[ogsball]

54. I agree and think that this no talking aobut

terrorist policy is stupid. Ask why were we attacked? What perception do they have and what did we do to antagnoize. Hold reponsible parties responsible then repent and begin again.

It works on Star Trek.

[ReadTomPaine]

47. I'm inclined to think this is original and somewhat unexpected.

Bush's response has been poor, Kerry's response has been good, and pundits are scrambling for answers. Early polls indicate heavy negative impression toward Bush regarding the taped statements. Doesn't seen like GOP to me. I think we will need a news cycle to pass to understand the full impact, but this doesn't seen like bad news for Kerry. Best trick for Bush would be to *find* him before the election. That would complete an 'October Surprise'.

RTP

[DemBones DemBones]

49. Earl, I think it's time to lock the "independent" threads now. nt

[Swamp Rat]

50. Bin Laden's been hanging out in Crawford...

[oddtext]

52. did everyone go for the media's headfake?

OBL just said "we thanked allah that the president took 20 minutes to read my pet goat, for we only thought that we had 20 minutes to accomplish our mission. because of this delay we were able to wreak far more disaster than we had ever imagined. thanks to allah."

this is the headline in an honest newspaper tomorrow morning.

[Ladyhawk]

55. I am concerned about the media spin.

After all, it is the media spin (combined with American gullibility) that is making this presidential race close at all.

Are we going to ignore the spin and hope it goes away? Or do we take action? Do we contact the media. Do we ask MoveOn to play the Osama ad again?

Because of the spin, I think Kerry himself should just stick to what he's been saying, but others like Clark, Dean, MoveOn, etc. might be able to stop the spin.

So, do we ignore? Or do we act?

[UNIXcock]

56. The first thing that came to my mind ...

... "just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder" :freak:

[susanna]

58. Something I just thought of...

Maybe OBL is popping back up for a dual reason. 1) the obvious election-related reasons that have been discussed since the tape was released; and 2) Al Zarqhawi (sp?) has been stealing his "top dog" thunder, and what better way to jump back into the spotlight?

I'll elaborate a little. OBL and Saddam shared one thing in my mind, and that's a tendency towards sociopathology. That alone is one of the reasons I figured OBL/SH were not likely to collude with one another against us; that personality type doesn't generally like to share any glory with another.

Which, in turn, led me to the thought that OBL must be just a wee bit irritated by Zarqhawi stealing his "king of the terrorists" role in recent months. Any thoughts?

[alarimer]

60. How reliable are the translations for these tapes??

How do we knew he said what he is purported to have said. On any of the tapes. It seems to me, putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, that the Administration or the producers of the network(s) could make him say whatever they wanted him to. And no one would really know the difference. Or am I just too cynical??

[mike_c]

62. well, there ARE people outside the ME who speak arabic....

i don't think a phony translation would last too long.

[sr_pacifica]

61. OBL is doing W a favor

"Thanks for taking the heat off of me and putting it on Saddam, my friend. I will make video to help you win the election."

Not that it should help since it only shows he's still alive and kicking and Kerry is right that Iraq was a diversion. But, I agree with others on this post that between knee-jerk reaction and media spin, the video could help Bushit.