Explain to me OBL's reference to Lebanon

[n2mark]

What was happening at that time? What is the connection to Lebanon and now. My marriage what in an upheavel at that time, don't remember.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Israel went after Lebanon in 1982

That was the center of the Hezbollah group which had been doing a number on Israel. It was done with the consent and covert assistance of the United States.

OBL said that was when he started to get pissed off. Apparently, he's a slow burner. Didn't attack the WTC - the first time - until ten years later.

[Southsideirish]

2. I wonder who in the Reagan administration ordered the shooting

into the hills that Usama referred to?

[Nordic]

7. I don't know but it was nasty. We killed a TON of people

I was doing research for a story about a guy who was doing research in those very hills and there was a huge amount of death and destruction, all civilian, all at the hands of the US warships.

Godawful.

[KC21304]

3. I know that is what he said but it doesn't make sense.

He was working with US against Soviets during the 80's. He didn't seem to mind taking our money and stinger missles at that time.

[Sara Beverley]

4. That's why some think this video is a fake.

Our CIA make-up artists damn good. They travel all over the world disguising people and making doubles. Could this Osama be one? Is this the one we will or Pakistan will produce as captured? Will we see a wax Osama being buried? There is lots of stuff in all of this to work with.

[Zynx]

5. Eh, I can buy that he wasn't happy about it.

Think, you are an Arab fundamentalist. You see the infidel Jews going into and blasting a Muslim state, backed by the United States.

Hitting the United States probably crosses your mind.

He may have just meant when he started to hate the US, not when he started planning to bomb them. He was making a point about how we fuck around way too much with Muslim nations.

[H2O Man]

8. His relationship with the US

in that time period is not well understood. It is true that he was associated with individuals and groups that accepted aid that came at times from the US, but more often through third parties. I saw an earlier thread that referred to bin Laden as a "CIA asset." This is simply not true. I think this tape makes clear that he was not fond of the US for decades. Keep in mind that the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in the very end of 1979. Things changed in the US when Reagan was sworn in. The Reagan Administration pressured others, such as Pakistan, to increase aid to the Afghan rebels. But that doesn't mean he worked with the US.

[James T. Kirk]

6. Here is a brief history of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War

[Buck Rabbit]

9. Not 1982, for Bin Laden it was Qana 1996

While the Operation Peace In Galilee in 1982 was the "Pearl Harbor" for many Shiite Moslems regarding The United States, Bin Laden was more likely referring to Qana in 1996.

A UN operated refugee camped was shelled by the Israeli army. Pictures of the aftermath were incredibly gruesome and were said to deeply affect Bin Laden. It was supposedly his last straw behind his declaration of war against America and Israel.

[Julien Sorel]

10. The Wikipedia thing is sanitized crap.

The best account I've seen of the invasion of Lebanon to date is in Morris' Righteous Victims.

He makes the following points:

1) It was Sharon's plan from start to finish (Sharon was Minister of Defense at the time -- why do I want to place quotation marks around the word "Defense?")

2) The goals, as Sharon himself said, were twofold: to drive the PLO from Lebanon into Jordan, where they would destabilize the Hashemites, perhaps even overthrowing them and establishing a "Palestinian" state there, so Israel could have the West Bank; and second, to chop the head (the PLO) off the Palestinian people, making it easier to swallow the West Bank whole.

At that time, Sharon still thought that Jews would outnumber Palestinians in Israel permanently, thus making it easy to inculcate the West Bank into Israel without worrying about the Palestinians becoming a majority in the "Jewish" state.

3) Sharon lied to the U.S., telling us he would only penetrate 40 km (going form memory, so I might be off on specifics), when in fact, the invasion was planned to go much deeper. Personally, I think this was a wink and a nod type lie, but who can say.

4) It was incredibly bloody. The Israelis used artillery quite indiscriminately, and 20,000+ civilians were killed.

5) The Abu Nidal excuse for the invasion is absurd. Nidal had nothing to do with the PLO at this point, because he considered them too peaceful. Sharon and the government wanted the invasion, and Nidal's supposed assassination attempt gave them an excuse -- but what a pathetic excuse it was. A failed assassination attempt in London is used to justify the bloody invasion of a country thousands of miles away. It's no wonder Sharon has Bush in his pocket -- Bush probably looks up to him as being better at trumping up reasons to go to war.



I really suggest you read the section of Righteous Victims that covers this. It's fairly short, but eye opening. I have issues with the book, but that one section is excellent. There is a lot of disinformation on the topic out there, and reading something that covers the invasion and is well documented, and comparing it to some of the garbage, gives you some insight into just how slanted coverage of Israel usually is.