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My wife's sister doesn't believe the US committed attrocities in Vietnam

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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:37 PM
Original message
My wife's sister doesn't believe the US committed attrocities in Vietnam
So which should I tell her about first?

My Lai, Operation Phoenix, or Tiger Force?
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iceman_419 Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Number one choice
My Lai
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Your wife's sister would make a good Mrs. Potato Head
Give her a synopsis of all three...
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Ivote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Tell Her To Google Lt Cally
And then ask her if he should be pardoned
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's nothing.
My dad tells me we won that war.

And, even more incredibly, that he believes everything the government tells him.

Of course, he only believes it if comes from the "right" side!
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. My Lai - With Photographs...
and the courts martial convictions!
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. atrocities are committed in ALL WARS
WAR ITSELF IS AN ATROCITY
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. True enough
By my SIL is one of those who's swallowed the line that Americans are always the ones wearing the white hats.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. just kick her ass already, Sandpiper
she is in dire need of a good ass-kicking
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Tim4319 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Amen!
And, if people don't believe that, I have some beach front property in Nebraska I would like to sell them!
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Abelman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Hell?
That's fucking idiotic.

Anyone who doesn't realize what an incredible waste of human life Vietnam was really needs to kiss off.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here's a synopsis of My Lai by a law prof...print it
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 03:46 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
<snip>

As the third platoon moved into My Lai, it was followed by army photographer Ronald Haeberle, there to document what was supposed to be a significant encounter with a crack enemy battalion. Haeberle took many pictures . He said he saw about thirty different GIs kill about 100 civilians. Once Haeberle focused his camera on a young child about five feet away, but before he could get his picture the kid was blown away. He angered some GIs as he tried to photograph them as they fondled the breasts of a fifteen-year-old Vietnamese girl.

An army helicopter piloted by Chief Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson arrived in the My Lai vicinity about 9 a.m. Thompson noticed dead and dying civilians all over the village. Thompson repeatedly saw young boys and girls being shot at point-blank range. Thompson, furious at what he saw, reported the wanton killings to brigade headquarters .

Meanwhile, the rampage below continued. Calley was at the drainage ditch on the eastern edge of the village, where about seventy to eighty old men, women, and children not killed on the spot had been brought. Calley ordered the dozen or so platoon members there to push the people into the ditch, and three or four GIs did. Calley ordered his men to shoot into the ditch. Some refused, others obeyed. One who followed Calley's order was Paul Meadlo, who estimated that he killed about twenty-five civilians. (Later Meadlo was seen, head in hands, crying.) Calley joined in the massacre. At one point, a two-year-old child who somehow survived the gunfire began running towards the hamlet. Calley grabbed the child, threw him back in the ditch, then shot him.

Hugh Thompson, by now almost frantic, saw bodies in the ditch, including a few people who were still alive. He landed his helicopter and told Calley to hold his men there while he evacuated the civilians. Thompson told his helicopter crew chief to "open up on the Americans" if they fired at the civilians. He put himself between Calley's men and the Vietnamese. When a rescue helicopter landed, Thompson had the nine civilians, including five children, flown to the nearest army hospital. Later, Thompson was to land again and rescue a baby still clinging to her dead mother.

By 11 a.m., when Medina called for a lunch break, the killing was nearly over. By noon, "My Lai was no more": its buildings were destroyed and its people dead or dying. Soldiers later said they didn't remember seeing "one military-age male in the entire place". By night, the VC had returned to bury the dead. What few villagers survived and weren't already communists, became communists. Twenty months later army investigators would discover three mass graves containing the bodies of about 500 villagers.

II.

The cover-up of the My Lai massacre began almost as soon as the killing ended. Official army reports of the operation proclaimed a great victory: 128 enemy dead, only one American casualty (one soldier intentionally shot himself in the foot). The army knew better. Hugh Thompson had filed a complaint, alleging numerous war crimes involving murders of civilians. According to one of Thompson's crew members, "Thompson was so pissed he wanted to turn in his wings". An order issued by Major Calhoun to Captain Medina to return to My Lai to do a body count was countermanded by Major General Samuel Koster, who asked Medina how many civilians has been killed. "Twenty to twenty-eight," was his answer. The next day Colonel Henderson informed Medina that an informal investigation of the My Lai incident was underway-- and most likely gave the Captain "a good ass-chewing" as well. Henderson interviewed a number of GIs, then pronounced himself "satisfied" by their answers. No attempt was made to interview surviving Vietnamese. In late April, Henderson submitted a written report indicating that about twenty civilians had been inadvertently killed in My Lai. Meanwhile, Michael Bernhart, a Charlie Company GI severely troubled by what he witnessed at My Lai discussed with other GIs his plan to write a letter about the incident to his congressman. Medina, after learning of Bernhart's intentions, confronted him and told him how unwise such an action, in his opinion, would be.

If not for the determined efforts of a twenty-two-year-old ex-GI from Phoenix, Ronald Ridenhour, what happened on March 16, 1968 at My Lai 4 may never have come to the attention of the American people. Ridenhour served in a reconnaissance unit in Duc Pho, where he heard five eyewitness accounts of the My Lai massacre. He began his own investigation, traveling to Americal headquarters to confirm that Charlie Company had in fact been in My Lai on the date reported by his witnesses. Ridenhour was shocked by what he learned . When he was discharged in December, 1968, Ridenhour said "I wanted to get those people. I wanted to reveal what they did. My God, when I first came home, I would tell my friends about this and cry-literally cry." In March, 1969, Ridenhour composed a letter detailing what he had heard about the My Lai massacreand sent it to President Nixon, the Pentagon, the State Department, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and numerous members of Congress. Most recipients simply ignored the letter, but a few, most notably Representative Morris Udall, aggressively pushed for a full investigation of Ridenhour's allegations.

By late April, General Westmoreland, Army Chief of Staff, had turned the case over to the Inspector General for investigation. Over the next few months, dozens of witnesses were interviewed. It became apparent to all connected with the investigation that war crimes had been committed. In June, 1969, William Calley was flown back from Viet Nam to appear in a line-up for identification by Hugh Thompson. By August, the matter was in the hands of the army's Criminal Investigation Division for a determination as to whether criminal charges should be filed against Calley and other massacre participants. On September 5, formal charges, included six specifications of premeditated murder, were filed against Calley.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/Myl_intro.html

Dead child in ditch


dead civilians in road



Soldier burning village:




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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Leave it. If it gives her comfort, let her cling to it.

given the situation, it is the most humane thing you can do.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I dunno
To me it's like letting a kid keep believing in Santa Claus when they're old enough to know that it isn't true.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. She's an adult, with the same ability that you have to read what she

is interested in, and form her own opinions.

One of two things, either she is not emotionally capable of "going there," or she does not consider them atrocities.

In the case of the former, as I said, under the circumstances, how can you begrudge her whatever comfort she finds where she finds it.

In the case of the latter, she has a lot more company than you do, and arguing with her about it can lead nowhere good, and might not produce a happy result for you.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. You're probably right
Her case is the latter rather than the former. And if she wants to find out the truth about Vietnam, it's out there.

For the sake of keeping family peace I probably won't ruin her ignorant bliss.
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. Newsflash
There were over 250 GI's convicted of committing war crimes in Viet Nam. Some are still serving out life sentences. A little research is all that is needed to prove her wrong.
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progressivedancer Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Wow
As an Asian American I am angry and offended. Good luck educating your wife's sister. I will refrain from saying anything else for what is in my mind is pure rage. As the better person from both sides however, I will let reason and good spirit dispell my seething rage.
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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Does she think all school busses are short like the one she rode in? n/t
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 03:59 PM by Snotcicles
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. How about a personal story from my Uncle who served 2 tours in Nam
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 04:03 PM by proud patriot
well just short of 2 years .

He was stationed with a Mountain Village in Vietnam
The soldiers lived with the villagers for over a year
getting to know everyone there playing with the kids etc...

then one day the orders came to Destroy the village
and everyone in it .

My uncle helped in fullfilling the order.

a few months later my Uncle came home with a bullet
hole through his hand .

He told the story once and only once to my mom
and all of his sisters . He spent 2 weeks in a fetal
position upon arriving home . He tried to take his
own life .

To this day if you mention Veitnam to him , he will
cry . He also refuses to aknowledge any thank you's
for his service .

This account was told to me , from my mom
who asked that I never ask my uncle about
his service .

These are all the details I know .

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. ears and other tales of horror?
tell her i personally know of someone who was in special ops during the early to mid 60`s..yes these guys did this and alot more. this person was always on the edge during his school years and the special ops training put him over the edge..his girlfriend was scared to death of him when he came back...yes these guys did these acts and it started not long after the french got kicked out
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drunkdriver-in-chief Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Every civilian killed is an atrocity
And america killed millions in nam and in in WW2 in germany and japan. America's terrorist roots go back a long way.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. 3 million dead
attrocities?
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. tell her "hey, that's ok..."
There are people who don't believe in the Holocaust either.

</sarcasm>

Geesh, how did modern civilization screw up survival of the fittest so badly that idiots like that reach adulthood.



P.S. Sorry if that is too harsh.
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JSJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. the inspiring part is the viets never talk about what was done to them
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. She's just confused the movie "The Green Berets" starring John Wayne,
with reality. The evil dirty commies,protecting their homeland like that.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. tell her that war is not some immaculate video game!
war is ugly and it leads decent people to do ugly things PERIOD.

She's an ostrich if she doesn't understand that. We have pictures of Abu Ghraib; imagine the atrocities that have no such pictoral documentary, including Vietnam.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Let me guess: she was born yesterday.
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Wols Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. Just show her this thread
and then kick her ass for being an absolute idiot.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. Yeah. Those 3 million dead people all committed suicide.
Just like all those Iraqi civilians are doing now.

Errrh..."collateral damage". "We regret any unfortunate..". "We had to burn the village to save it." "Some bombs inevitably go astray." "Better we kill children there than here."

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. Educate her. Ignorance is not bliss.
Please, educate the woman. Then she can pass on her education to people she encounters.

Letting that kind of ignorance fester is like letting Typhoid Mary roam the streets. It's just flat dangerous to civilization. No wonder things never change.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. How about stories from those who committed the atrocities or those
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Apparently, you married the pretty and smart sister
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. Explain about the tooth fairy first....
Step by Step....and have some warm tea or coco ready
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
34. Did the U.S. Commit War Crimes in Vietnam?
http://www.villagevoice.com/print/issues/0438/turse.php

From the National Archives: New proof of Vietnam War atrocities
Swift Boat Swill

by Nicholas Turse
September 21st, 2004 11:40 AM

John Kerry is being pilloried for his shocking Senate testimony 34 years ago that many U.S. soldiers—not just a few "rogues"—were committing atrocities against the Vietnamese. U.S. military records that were classified for decades but are now available in the National Archives back Kerry up and put the lie to his critics. Contrary to what those critics, including the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, have implied, Kerry was speaking on behalf of many soldiers when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971, and said this:


They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam, in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

The archives have hundreds of files of official U.S. military investigations of such atrocities committed by American soldiers. I've pored over those records—which were classified for decades—for my Columbia University dissertation and, now, this Voice article. The exact number of investigated allegations of atrocities is unknown, as is the number of such barbaric incidents that occurred but weren't investigated. Some war crimes, like the Tiger Force atrocities exposed last year by The Toledo Blade, have only come to light decades later. Others never will. But there are plentiful records to back up Kerry's 1971 testimony point by point. Following (with the names removed or abbreviated) are examples, directly from the archives:

..more..

-----------------

http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/PR082404.htm

Did the U.S. Commit War Crimes in Vietnam?

DAVID MacMICHAEL, dmacm@adelphia.net

A disabled veteran of ten years active Marine Corps service in Korea, MacMichael was a Defense Department consultant from 1965 to 1969 in Southeast Asia. During most of that period he was attached to the office of the Special Assistant for Counter-Insurgency at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok. In that capacity he reviewed classified reports from the U.S. mission in Vietnam. MacMichael said today: "Some Vietnam veterans are outraged that presidential candidate Kerry in his 1971 Senate testimony spoke of atrocities reportedly committed by U.S. military forces in Vietnam. There is more than a little substance to the charge. The Toledo Blade won the 2004 Pulitzer Prize by revealing that in 1967 the 101st Airborne Division created a 'Tiger Force' ordered to kill all Vietnamese males in Quang Ngi Province. According to official U.S. Army records unearthed by the Blade reporters, Tiger Force killed many hundreds of Vietnamese and, yes, soldiers of that force did proudly ware necklaces of the ears they cut from their victims. The Army did investigate and identified the perpetrators of the crimes but chose not to prosecute them." www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SRTI... >

MacMichael added: "In 1968, Colonel George S. Patton III -- son of the World War II general -- then commanding a brigade in Vietnam, sent out Christmas cards showing dead Vietnamese stacked up Abu Ghraib-fashion with the message 'Peace on Earth' and signed by him and his wife.... And then, of course, there was My Lai. There, C Company of the 11th Brigade of the Americal Division in 1967 entered that village and methodically executed between 347 and 504 of its unarmed inhabitants, men, women and children. At least 100 of them were lined up in an irrigation ditch by Lt. William Calley and shot to death by his GIs. The slaughter only ended when the shocked crew of an Army helicopter gunship landed and forced C Company at gunpoint to cease and desist. My Lai was far from an exceptional case. In fact, it might never have come to light had not a troubled Americal Division mortarman, Tom Glen, who had not been present, heard about it and, after rotating out of Vietnam to the U.S., wrote to the U.S. commander in Vietnam, General Westmoreland. His letter only mentioned My Lai as 'part of the abusive pattern that had become routine in the Americal Division.'"


DAVID CLINE, daoudc@aol.com, www.veteransforpeace.org, www.vvaw.org, www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html
Currently national president of Veterans for Peace and a longtime coordinator of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Cline is a disabled combat veteran. He said today: "After 30 years, some people are trying to whitewash what happened in Vietnam."


S. BRIAN WILLSON, bw@brianwillson.com, www.brianwillson.com
Willson is a former Air Force captain who served in Vietnam. He said today: "As head of a 40-man USAF combat security unit in Vietnam, I was separately tasked to assess 'success' of targeted bombings. I discovered egregious war crimes -- daylight terror bombings of undefended fishing and rice farming villages resulting in mass murders and maimings of hundreds of residents. Subsequently, in conversations with members of the 9th Infantry Division, I heard bravado about slaughter of 11,000 'enemy' from ground operations, though the vast majority proved to be unarmed civilians."

....more....


------------------------------------------------------

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Tiger_force_120803.htm

Tiger Force (Vietnam) Uncovered and Exposed

Witness to Vietnam atrocities never knew about investigation

THE NEW YORKER, NOVEMBER 10, 2003
Talk of the Town, p.41

<snip>
At the height of the rampage, the Tiger Force platoon was operating a few dozen miles from a Quang Ngai hamlet that the Army called My Lai 4, and where, in March, 1968, more than five hundred Vietnamese civilians were massacred by a task force whose platoon leaders included William L. Calley, Jr. The Blade quoted a law professor as stating that My Lai might have been avoided if the senior officer corps had acted on complaints of military brutality in Quang Ngai that had been filed by at least two soldiers. The Blade further reported that in the early nineteen-seventies, after Calley's conviction for the murder of twenty-two Vietnamese civilians, in March, 1971, and while the Army was publicly insisting that My Lai was an isolated incident, senior officials in the White House and the Pentagon were provided with periodic reports on the Tiger Force inquiry.

In fact, while the Army was conducting its internal investigation of My Lai, it discovered that a second large massacre had taken place on the same day in the same area, in a hamlet known as My Khe 4, but Lieutenant General William R. Peers, who had served for more than two years in Vietnam and who led the investigation, publicly denied that there were any other incidents. "It was not brought out to me in the evidence," Peers told reporters at the close of the inquiry, and he was not challenged on that assertion, even though two Army officers who had been present at My Khe had already been charged with war crimes. Twenty years later, the Army declassified an April, 1970, memorandum to the General responding to an article I had written about My Lai. It noted that I did not appear to "possess any substantive information concerning the suppression or cover-up aspects of the incident," but that I was being aided in my reporting by someone with access to the official records. It concluded, "The need to terminate such assistance to Mr. Hersh becomes increasingly important when consideration is given to the use Mr. Hersh would make of any information he obtained concerning command reaction and efforts of suppression."

John Dean, the former White House counsel to President Nixon, acknowledged that he had received a series of reports from the Army on the status of pending war-crimes investigations, including My Lai, but that they gave no hint of the extent of the crimes. "It doesn't get to the top unless there's a problem," he told me last month. "I had no knowledge of My Lai"-that is, its full horror--"until it hit the press."

In war-crimes investigations, the disparity between the facts and the military's official versions of them has repeatedly been exposed, often with bruising consequences, by an independent press. The Blade's extraordinary investigation of Tiger Force, however, remains all but invisible. None of the four major television networks have picked it up (although CBS and NBC have been in touch with the Blade), and most major newspapers have either ignored the story or limited themselves to publishing an Associated Press summary. In a column published on the first day of the series, Ron Royhab, the Blade's executive editor, pointedly wrote that the decision to run the Vietnam stories now had "nothing to do" with the current military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. As he told me, "We can't have this kind of information and sit on it, because then we'd be a party to a coverup." There is, of course, a hesitancy in time of war--and, in particular, during an increasingly unpopular war against an entrenched guerrilla enemy, to publish stories that could be interpreted as undermining military morale. And news organizations instinctively debunk scoops nom their competitors, especially those in smaller markets. It may be that others in the media are planning to do their own Tiger Force investigations. Let's hope so. Terrible things always happen in war, and the responsibility of the press is to do exactly what the Blade has done-to find, verify, and publish the truth.

-Seymour M Hersh

----------------------------

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=6217

From Vietnam to Fallujah

. by Fran Schor September 13, 2004

The recent controversy surrounding the "Swift Boat Veterans" ad challenging John Kerry's Vietnam record and his later statements as a leader of Vietnam Veterans against the War (VVAW) have fallen into predictable partisan perspectives. Republicans and their media attack machine still insist that Kerry's medals are suspect and his VVAW activities were treasonous. Kerry and the Democrats, in turn, have found further documentary evidence and eye-witness accounts to support his version of the Vietnam incidents. As far as Kerry's 1971 testimony about US atrocities in Vietnam, Kerry has reiterated that he was just recounting reports from the Winter Soldier Investigations. In addition, he tried earlier to deflect criticism of his VVAW positions by claiming that some of his statements were overzealous and part of the heated rhetoric of the times. In effect, the Bush Administration and Republicans have tried to deny that atrocities took place while Kerry and the Democrats have tried to minimize or marginalize them.

For those who have studied the historical record of the US prosecution of the war in Southeast Asia, neither the Republicans nor Democrats have confronted the full measure of those atrocities and what their legacy is especially in the war on Iraq. While most studies of the war in Southeast Asia acknowledge that 4 times the tonnage of bombs was dropped on Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos than that used by the US in all theaters of operation during World War II, only a few, such as James William Gibson's The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam, analyze the full extent of such bombing. Not only were thousands of villages in Vietnam totally destroyed, but massive civilian deaths, numbering close to 3 million, resulted in large part from such indiscriminate bombing. Integral to the bombing strategy was the use of weapons that violated international law, such as napalm and anti-personnel fragmentation bombs. As a result of establishing free-fire zones where anything and everything could be attacked, including hospitals, US military operations led to the deliberate murder of mostly civilians.

While Rumsfeld and the Pentagon have touted the "clean" weapons used in Iraq, the fact is that aerial cluster bombs and free-fire zones have continued to be part of present day military operations. Villages throughout Iraq, from Hilla to Fallujah, have borne and are bearing US attacks that take a heavy civilian toll. Occasionally, criticisms of the type of ordnance used in Iraq found its way into the mainstream press, especially when left-over cluster bomblets looking like yellow food packages blow up in children's hands or depleted uranium weapons are dropped inadvertently on British soldiers. However, questions about the immorality of "shock and awe" bombing strategy have been buried deeper than any of the cluster bomblets.

In Vietnam, a primary ground war tactic was the "search and destroy" mission with its over-inflated body counts. As Christian Appy forcefully demonstrated in Working Class War: American Combat Soldiers and Vietnam, such tactics were guaranteed to produce atrocities. Any revealing personal account of the war in Vietnam, such as Ron Kovic's Born on the Fourth of July, underscores how those atrocities took their toll on civilians and US soldiers, like Kovic. Of course, certain high-profile atrocities, such as My Lai, achieved prominent media coverage (almost, however, a year after the incident.) Nonetheless, My Lai was seen either as an aberration and not part of murderous campaigns such as the Phoenix program with its thousands of assassinations or a result of a few bad apples, like a Lt. Calley, who nonetheless received minor punishment for his command of the massacre of hundreds of women and children. Moreover, as reported in Tom Engelhardt's The End of Victory Culture, "65% of Americans claimed not to be upset by the massacre" (224). Is it, therefore, not surprising that Noam Chomsky asserted during this period that the US had to undergo some sort of de- nazification in order to regain some moral sensitivity to what US war policy had produced in Vietnam


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:16 PM
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:18 PM
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36. Michael J Fox movie - Casualties of War
Based on a true story originally published in the New Yorker.
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