Osama is a monster, but we created him. When will we ever be

[rainy]

able to have an honest discussion in this country about Globalization, IMF, Corporatism, Oil and secret meetings all involved in the killing of Arabs and raping their lands. Maybe Osama just wants us to stop killing Arabs and stop supporting Israels vicious plowing down of Arabs and their homes. And, stop steeling their oil. Come on we need an honest discussion in this world. We are so afraid that we wont be popular because the populus is too stupid to know what is really going on. This is just reduced to a discussion of one side vs the other side on all of the wrong talking points.

[Swede]

1. We did not creat Osama.

Someone with hate like that didn't need a reason to kill anyone. .

[rainy]

2. honestly, when your government kills in your name you have

to expect that your people, sadly, will die just as violently. We must stop the killing or we will always be killers.

[Swede]

5. I agree,but Osama didn't need us to come out of the woodwork.

We sure didn't help I guess.

[vajraroshana]

11. he already hated us, but he used us (eom)

[pretzel4gore]

3. the apocalypse will open their eyes....

they're members of a dying species living on a dying planet......and instead of trying to reverse fate, they are forcing an accelaration....society creates all the monsters, but deny any responsibility...only their own doom can force them to be honest :(
george bush is the 'elected' representative of humanity's richest and most powerful society

[knowbody0]

4. actually

it looks to me as though war ideology is losing the wind in its sail

amazing what the light does to illusions. we are forced to comprehend that killing people only makes their loved ones want to kill us. im thinking the hard rock of logic is making its way through the darkness like a monolith.
have faith in your fellow man. look to your adversaries with compassion, if only for their stupidity.
i have converted so many probushers by respectfully listening to them.by not shouting or getting angry, when i state my own opinions.they live in fear and are relieved when they see behind the curtain.we have the strongest weapons-truths.

[getoffmytrain]

6. I guess

Wahabbism has nothing to do with Osama's rather rigid stances?

[rainy]

7. he uses religion as a tool just as bush does. Why has he not

attacked Swedan, as he says, and other non muslim countries? Because they are not responsible for the deaths of muslims.

[getoffmytrain]

8. ...

Pan Am Flight 103, German Bar bombing, Embassy Boming, Bali Bombing, Spain train bombing... not all Osama though a few are... however, the same brand of terrorism. (notice mostly all non-american casualties)

[OxQQme]

9. reactionable ?

So what would 'we' do, given an illegal invasion of our country ?
Bombs in our cities taking out innocents. Militia in armored vehicles driving in 'our' streets. No electricity or other needful commodities.
Honestly, how many of us would become "in-surgents" against armed forces. Having a rifle or two is only temporary self/family protection.
Wouldn't you be mad, sad, un-nerved in some way if some 'other' came into our country for it's natural resource because 'they' needed it for their existence ? And you were able to see that if they changed 'their' ways they wouldn't 'need' or resources. And 'they' imprisoned us.

[OxQQme]

10. FYI

Lest any think me against the central DU will, I've already voted for Kerry. I think the bushco has decimated our standing in the world order.
But...........
This extreme partisan-ness just is messing us all up. There's more strength in unity.

Kerry our country John (new slogan i just made up ?)

Kerry us to peace with our sisters and brothers.
Kerry us to prosperity.
Kerry us to harmony (a little riffing on the melody wouldn't hurt).
Kerry us into an alternative to the insatiable 'need' for oil.
Kerry us into 'basic' needs for ALL.

[OxQQme]

12. more

We absolutely need vehicles for personal transportation, commercial vehicles to haul repairmens tools, wheat to market, milk from the dairy to the bottler, etc yada yada
We couldn't get by without water, waste disposal, fire crews, food stores, clothes stores and the whole infrastructure of cities. Schools, hospitals, libraries, book binders, chefs and servers, taverns, theaters, daycare centers yada yada.
These are needed whether you ride an elephant or an ass (oops, or is it a donkey).
What we have here is fear. It sells weaponry. Are we safe from the rest of the world, given our current administrations designs ?

We has met the enemy and the enemy is us......

Millions of tons of food waste buried when there's those without.
Gas guzzling behemoths befouling the air and dangerous to all being allowed on our streets.
Believing in the "Eve taking down 'man'kind" myth, all women thereby relegated to lower class status.
Believing "MY" GOD is better than "YOUR" GOD.
Believing in the rightness of one's own belief above others.

Or just go on throwing rocks and sticks at each other?
Like the Hatfields and McCoys. (or the Arabs and Israelites)
Is it not possible for us to just get along ?

[getoffmytrain]

13. Did you read the thread?

Nobody is talking about Iraq.

[AG78]

14. When

"an honest discussion in this country about Globalization, IMF, Corporatism, Oil"

capitalism isn't thought of as the be all, end all.

I'm only 26, so maybe it's different for the older people, but I can't remember ever learning about capitalism, socialism, communism, etc, etc, in grade school. By the time you reach college, where it could be discussed, you don't know anything about them, unless you went out of your way to learn it yourself.

I'm all for making money. That's fine. But I'm not for turning everything in existence, including existence itself, into a commodity.

But it's hard to have that discussion, because it all depends on where you have that discussion. Depends on who controls the discussion. Who has the discussion.

There's also some of that American greatness involved. Nobody can question what America does, because we are perfect. Manifest Destiny.

Also, how many people even know who or what an IMF is? We're too busy with our own lives. Too busy with careers. Too busy with kids. Who has time to have these discussions?