Is America a dying nation?

[Glenda]

read this. It's sort of pessimistic, but interesting to read.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-10-29/cols_ventura.html

"The great days of the United States of America are over. Nothing will bring those days back. It's too late. The damage has been done. There is no possible political, military, or economic solution. The general prosperity of the Fifties and Sixties (as opposed to the one-sided prosperity of the Nineties) is irretrievable. The capacity of the U.S. to lead the world has been drained. The only question is how America will decline – gracefully, clumsily, or tragically? Will we decline with our Constitution intact? "

...

"To cope with the Situation, each of the five men mentioned in the first sentence of this column has had, beneath his pointless rhetoric, a plan. "
...

"George W. Bush sees things differently: America may be lost, but the American elite must still call the shots on the world stage. Screw the middle class as well as the poor, bankrupt the government long-term for power short-term. His goal: a military solution. A missile shield would allow us to dictate to China and Europe; even a fake missile shield might be a playing card. Find any excuse to root the American military in the Middle East. Its oil would be under our command, while a poorer America would swell the ranks of our "volunteer" forces. Gut the Constitution's checks and balances, for belief in raw power admits no checks and balances. Iraq is a mess? Inconvenient, but ultimately it doesn't matter as long as the American military is committed to the Mideast. That keeps everybody off balance. With everything so crazy, China will hesitate, Europe will hesitate, and the American elite will have enough time to move entirely off-shore, and then – screw America too, who needs it? How will America decline in the Bush plan? Precipitously, but the elite will still be the elite. That's all Bush cares about. "

...

"And John Kerry – he's like one of those damaged but functioning Mars landers. Clinton's soft landing is no longer possible, but bumpy is better than a crash. Given the Situation, make things as bearable as possible. That's Kerry's real policy: Salvage what's salvageable. His goal is straight from Mars: a damaged but functional landing. It won't be pretty but it might work, and when all is said and done we might yet have a functioning Constitution. With that, we can pick up the pieces of what's left of America. Which is still something worth fighting and voting for. "

[porphyrian]

1. Apocalyptic horse shit.

Everyone wants to think that they are living in the "end times," so that they can give their pathetic lives meaning or purpose. If we didn't fall apart in the last four years, we aren't going to any time soon.

Unless they steal this election, that is.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

2. we survived these 4 years, but we can't take 4 more and I DO

think that the country is teetering on the edge as far as our democracy goes, if asshole is elected bend over and kiss your democracy and your ass good bye

[aquart]

4. Fall apart, no.

But do the work to get back on top? Without fighting a world war?

That may not be so much fun.

[freetobegay]

3. America hasn't even begun to become as great as she will be.

[porphyrian]

7. I'm with you on this.

Who says the American spirit is dead?

[Copperred]

9. .....math.....

i dont think the american spirit is dead.....however i dont think it is embodied in the parties.....

i often tell my fellow americans....the one thing we ar supposed to protect....above all else..is liberty and yoru family...and friends.......teh goverment is very far down on the list....

the torch passed from france to us a long time ago....and we have done a great job so far.....but the last 50 years of our foreign meddling is really catching up....

our jobs as americans is to protect liberty...as defined by the objective.... all else is talk....and the idea of protecting america is protecting liberty is an equation that will yield a false positive...

[Swede]

5. America is not dying.

There was unpopular war,gas prices were rising,half the country hated the president. Stocks were falling,it was 1973.

[Copperred]

6. depends who u r...

In some areas yes...in some no.

In the areas that are dying it's preventable...but there are those who recieve so much benefit from the status quo....odds are against it happening imo. and with this christian right block...they need to be taken on head on...and their supporters..

year agos...abotu 10 years ago...a well known midwestern newspaper magnet gave an interview in the NY observer...he said he felt that WAY down the road...that one day the upper midwest, new england, and ottawa would join as a country.... sounds crazy back then...but looking at what's goign on.....doesnt seem so far fetched...just way down the raod....

the federal government is getting to unruly on certain issues...and no one seems to be actually nipping ego and power driven policies in the budd.... who knows though...

random thoughts...

[fugue]

8. It's possible that our best days are behind us

I hope not. It is to be remembered that the "general prosperity" of the fifties and sixties is not as general as the author seems to think it was; the civil rights movement of that era wouldn't've occurred if it had been.

But all countries have their heyday, and most of them go on for at least a good long while afterward. Rome declined for centuries before it fell. China doesn't enjoy the cultural influence it had in Asia during its glory days, but it's still there and is still a significant presence. Britain still exists and is not irrelevant on the world scene, even if it is no longer a mighty empire.

The same will be true of America when its time comes. I don't know if that time is now, but even if it is the end of our hegemony and of our extremely high standard of living, there's nothing apocalyptic about it. We'll go on. We may even become a better, more just society for it; Britain did. I'd rather have that than giddy economic and military power any day.

[Catt03]

10. damaged but functional landing

is the best we can hope for. At least that is what I beleive.

Under Bush, at least half the country and most of Congress have an insular view that we can go it alone;that we are no longer a part of a world community, nor do we need to be.

If Bush should win, )which I believe he will not), the country may not go down in flames, but we had better get used to the US not being a world power and that we will be the target for those who think we must be taken down. And it won't just be Muslims.

[DuctapeFatwa]

11. There is a whole lot of world that is not the US. Be positive!

Glass Half Full

[Nikepallas]

12. I wouldn't be surprise

I had a college Professor who said he wouldn't be surprise that America is broken into a few seprate nations. And after seeing CNN Fundie report I can see them Starting a break away movement. Wasn't it in the late 90's that part of Texas wanted to break away?

[Abelman]

13. Remember Dylan Thomas

"Do not go gently into that good night"

And Bob Dylan

"The Times they are a changing."

What you say has truth to it, but as we've seen from the news, truth can be spun different ways. We are facing a crossroads in our American history as we have in the past. I will not sit idly by as America is splintered into two factions, I will not quit my fight toward an America where you aren't judged by your sexual orientation, your gender, the color of your skin, the slant of your eyelids, the music in your CD player, the donkey decal on your pickup truck, the veil over your head, the fast food restaurant you prefer, whether you call it pop or soda, and whether or not you think certain movies are good or bad.

I will not quit trying to instill a sense of mutual respect in every human being while at the same time preserving the personal uniqueness of each one's views and travels.

I will not quit fighting apathy everywhere I see it, whether it be someone failing to vote, someone driving two houses down the street, or someone not changing the channel because the remote is next to the TV.

I will battle and I will end complacency, apathy, injustice, unfairness, revenge, hatred, and disrespect.

I will not quit until my generation and all generations before and after realize that we are not a great country anymore, but we Can be one.

Good enough is not good enough. I will fight until tired old cliches regain the fire and effect they once had. I will teach those younger than me the lessons I have learned from thos older than me. And if my efforts fail to reunite this splintered country, I will work harder to ensure true freedom and liberty exists in whatever faction I live in, to allow true democracy to work by inspiring the souls and minds of the countless people I come in contact with.

[shraby]

15. If we can preserve the Constitution, this country

can and will get itself back on track. What has helped make it great is that precious document that has grown with the times yet stayed with the same basic precept..."All men are created equal" and with thoughtful and careful adjustments in the form of amendments it remains a document that is above and beyond all others.

Hang on to that Constitution because without it whole and intact, this country cannot stand.

The present administration understands that in order to conquer we have to be divided. A united country is practically impervious, so we must do all we can to reunite this country and make it whole once again, accomodating all the diversity we're are famous for.

All of you know the song.....

United we stand
Divided we fall
And if our backs are ever up against the wall
We'll be together
Together you and I

[many a good man]

14. Our natural advantage has been frittered away by Empire

over the last 50 years. Our advantage over the rest of the world in manufacturing and finance after they were devastated by the world war was bound to lessen due to the natural effects of time. Our dominance will continue to wane but the future is still up to us. If we look only to our military to prop up our dominance it will bankrupt us financially. We can still be a vital player in forging a new international balance of power. As a moral leader for good we would strengthen international institutions and work to alleviate the suffering worldwide that contributes to insecurity. It requires leadership and an electorate that demands it.

[UNIXcock]

16. Absolutely not !!!

Why, it's a great time to be an American, using democracy to make changes as opposed to force and bloodshed. To have leaders, no matter how terrible, leave office if the majority (electoral collage) of the people say it's time to do so. That didn't happen in the Soviet Union or Communist China.

Yes, America is a great country to live in. I'm proud to raise my family here; warts and all!

[kayell]

17. In the ICU, but with a strong chance for a full recovery.

[Taxloss]

18. Who says you have to be number one?

Why is being number one so great? You just get half the world hating you and the other half begging favours. You can still be a great country without being number one ... you can be THE BEST country without being number one. Do you think the Swiss, or the Dutch, or the New Zealanders lie awake at night fretting over how they're not number one?

But I understand the complex. Britain used to be number one - we owned a quarter of the world, we were the largest and richest economy in the world, global trade was counted in pounds, time itself was measured from London. And we lost that, and you know what? It wasn't a bad thing that we did. Sure, it gave us national psychological problems that we're still dealing with today, but we got over it, and I like to think that Britain isn't clapped out, we're not a hopeless case: we're able to do a lot of good.

The USA might have to deal with not being number one. And it's not easy. But it's not the end of the world.

[Kanary]

24. Great post, taxloss! I think the health of our nation REQUIRES

we get used to NOT being number 1!

Lots of people would have appoplexy, and probably more would jump out of windows than did the Depression, but........ :)

Welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

Kanary

[yella_dawg]

19. It's not just the US

Population growth curves, resource management issues, economic structural problems, the list goes on and on. The next twenty years will see a radical change in lifestyles worldwide. It may be more visible here, due to our materialistic lifestyle, but massive changes are inevitable and immanent.

[welshTerrier2]

20. pain is on the way

here are some realities we have to address regardless of what conclusion you draw to answer the question ...

first, the U.S. has been utilizing a wildly disproportionate and unsustainable percentage of the world's natural resources, especially its fossil fuels ... whatever economic engine we desire will need to function in a significantly different way ... regardless of what new energy technologies come along to bail us out, the transition will be a severe shock to the American economic system ...

second, we continue to lag behind a number of key competitors in the area of education ... literacy rates are below those of many emerging nations ... and we're lagging behind in math and science as well ... this cannot continue if we hope to be globally competitive ...

third, our standard of living is much higher in this country than the rest of the world ... we not only have to be better, we have to be much better ... we are already seeing the tip of the iceberg with job outsourcing and companies completely leaving the country ... with a shrinking, networked world, it's going to become increasingly difficult for fat American paychecks to compete ...

we like to dream of American ingenuity ... we like to believe in our natural superiority ... sadly, history sees this kind of thinking as foolish ... there has never been a society that has always been the wealthiest, always been the strongest, always been the world leader ...

perhaps it is wrong to say that "America is dying" ... but clearly, our near-term future will be much darker than our past ... our once great institutions (governmental, economic, cultural) have broken down ... our national infrastructure, both physical and meta-physical, can no longer sustain us ... pain is on the way ...

America can perhaps re-invent itself ... it will not be easy to take power back from those who have succeeded in the old ways ... change will not happen without a fight ... and even when change happens, we now must compete on a much more global scale ... let's hope that those with vision are given a voice to change the future ...

[Selatius]

21. We are at the top

I think we're at the peak right now. We've hit the zenith in my opinion as far as economic and military power is concerned. In this century I predict that the European Union will gather itself together and assert itself as a player in the world. I also predict that China will become a formidable superpower during this century, and I predict Russia will recover some of its power and begin reasserting itself in the world sometime within the next several decades. Also look for countries such as India and Brazil to become bigger players in the world.

We will not live in a unipolar world forever where the US is the strongest economic/military power. I feel we're going to move into a world full of big powers, a multipolar world. Whether the US accepts this peacefully or violently largely depends on how well the people can rein in the people who put power and control ahead of all else. People who hold power and hunger for it guard it jealously against all comers. If the people collectively fail to stop them, if they continue to be asleep at the wheel, then this nation will implode from the inside out due to corruption, cronyism, and greed.

It is America's COLLECTIVE CHOICE. Let us fight for and hope that the choice will be a good one after all.

[carpetbagger]

22. This is why I make it a point to get out of TX every now and then

Dude needs a vacation. Even a few days in Louisiana gives one some fresh air.

[Selwynn]

23. ALL civiliations/societies die

This one will be no different. I think there are less days ahead than behind. Make the most of them! :)