Bush is Methodist.

[Swede]

Methodist are neither born again or evangelical. Go figure.

[AspenRose]

1. So is Hillary Clinton

eom

[ogsball]

33. and John Edwards nt

[JVS]

2. Which churches are born again and which are evangelical?

[boomboom]

10. Evangelicals....

Evangelical Christians are committed to spreading the Word of Christ. Converting others to Christ is their second purpose in this world. Glorifying God is their first purpose. Some are better at the second purpose than others. But, there is nothing, at least in my opinion, that might suggest God is a Republican. I don't think any hate based agenda glorifies our most glorious Lord

[JVS]

15. Let me put this simply. If I am driving by a church how can I tell...

whether it is Evangelical, born-again, both of the above, or neither? What should I look for on the sign?

[Swede]

12. Does it matter.

[JVS]

13. Yes it does. If people are going to say evangelicals this and ...

born-again that, then they ought to be able to specify exactly what they are talking about

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. The "born-agains" tend to be evangelical.

Examples would include the Southern Baptists, the Pentecostals, Churches of Christ, and so on. The so-called "main-line Protestants" are neither evangelical nor "born again", generally speaking (Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists...there may be exceptions, but I'm not aware of many).

Most of the evangelical denominations evolve from the Baptist split with the Presbyterians in the late 18th-early 19th century, and further fracturing within that group since. The "evangelical" phenomenon tends to be concentrated in the South and Midwest for cultural reasons, its followers being largely of Scots-Irish descent.

[Lizzie Borden]

37. You have to be careful here...

United Church of Christ is the most left-leaning protestant church next to Unitarian. Church of Crist is not.

[Spider Jerusalem]

38. I was speaking of the latter, and am aware of the distinction...

suppose I ought to've made it clearer.

[Swede]

3. So he shoud shut the fuck up.

eom

[KingChicken]

4. its all the same

its all the same, born again's identify with the faith that reached out to them.

[JVS]

5. One more question: what is the "Method" that Methodism is named for?

[MUSTANG_2004]

30. Origin of Methodist

It was a nickname for Wesley's group that turned into a formal name. They tried to live by a 'method' where they formulated their values from 4 points.

Here's an article if you're interested:
http://www.goodnewsmag.org/magazine/5SeptOct/so03friedeman.htm

[Technowitch]

6. Methodist? Hardly.

His religion is whatever his gut tells him God wants.

In other words, there is no god for him but the voices in his own head. Which he then mistakes for divine guidance and approval.

[Vickers]

7. He's a Rovist

Seriously.

[Swede]

8. Methodist do not spread the word.

You are either a believer,or you ain/'t.

[MUSTANG_2004]

51. Yes they do

Methodists have mission programs.

[TimeToGo]

9. Well, actually

Methodism was born out of the evangelical wing of Christianity -- one of the first revival denominations.

Ture, typically not that evangelical anymore, but still can be there.

[tsuki]

11. No, he is not.

[Swede]

14. He must spread the trouth.

[boomboom]

18. My biggest concern

Is that Bush claims right to Christianity, but doesn't seem to live it at all. You can talk the talk........

But again, it's not up to me to judge.

[RoyGBiv]

16. Bush is an Idiot

He worships at the altar of Imbecility and chants the Fool's Mantra thrice daily.

[goclark]

19. Bush was never born again

That stuff is as phony as the hay at Ranch Rehab.

[Swede]

20. methodists cannot be born again.

they are already chhrists children.

[boomboom]

24. With all due respect

I'm not sure you understand Christians vs. denominations. Baptists believe you are baptised or born again when you make an adult or cogent decision to accept Christ as your Savior. I'm not sure what exactly Methodist's difference might be, but overall, being a Christian has less to do with a particular denomination than it does with each person's decision to follow. It's not a bad thing. It's wonderful and truly does change lives. What is bad is saying you're faithful for political gain. Totally different issue.

[Philostopher]

21. Methodists have a 'born again' ritual.

Just like Baptists and the Church of Christ. The ones I grew up around did, anyway -- they don't do full immersion baptism, but they sprinkle, and the 'saved' person makes the same basic declaration of faith as any other 'born again' Christian makes. Maybe some Methodist churches are different, but the people I knew growing up believed in water baptism and that it was the ritual of salvation and your dedication to live under the dictates of the church.

I don't think they're as evangelical as some sects, though, you're right about that.

Somebody else may know -- aren't Methodists a branch off the Wesleyan church? I was under the impression their beliefs were molded by the Wesleyans, though I admit I could be misled about this.

[Neshanic]

43. OK, for the last time, Methodists are not "Born Agains".

The basic rule and only rule of being born again is that you accept Jesus Christ as your savior and accept the Bible as absolute truth. New and Old Testament. No if ands or buts. No wiggle room. Pretty simple.

Fundamentalists are found in some mainline protestant denominations. Depending on the congregation the amount of people who are "true" borns agains" varies from the majority to a fraction, but usually the latter applies. Fundamentalists are members of non-aligned Christian fellowships and churches ranging from the small to the gargantuan.

Baptists can be fundamentalists, but they are not recognized by true fundamentalists like my ex-best friend who is the Pastor at a mega-fundamentalist church that is non-aligned. Roberston, Falwell and crowd are fundamentalists because they believe what non-aligned fundamentalists believe, but happen to be Baptists.

Methodism has always allowed a wide range of beliefs in one congregation. This is incompatable with the rigidity of demands of belief of a born again. The demand, or requirement of being "saved" or "born again is not a requirement in Methodism. Methodism has historically been progressive and to an extent socially activist.

I have been told by numerous born agains that Methodism, and ALL other religions are not required, and are actually harmfull. You give your Protestant, Catholic, or whatever card at the door, and you have to believe what they believe. No questions allowed.

[Philostopher]

45. Didn't say they were fundamentalists.

And, in fact, I spelled out that I didn't think they were evangelical.

Just said they have a 'water ritual' that equates to baptism in other churches. It's a membership ritual, and they take communion with others in the church afterward.

I know they're not fundamentalists -- the Church of Christ isn't a fundamentalist church, either, but they decidedly are evangelical. Methodists have some rituals in common, like water 'baptism' and the 'wine and wafers' communion, though they differ from evangelicals in that they don't believe proselytizing is the main focus of their religion.

I had no problem with Methodists, growing up. If my mother wouldn't have had a conniption, I'd have gone to the Methodist church in town instead of the CofC I attended because it seemed less straitlaced to me. The Methodist minister was much kinder to my father when he was dying of cancer than the minister from the church where my mother goes, which my father had attended for decades.

I'm agnostic -- I'm not atheist, but neither do I have any 'dog in the race' on the subject of religion. But if I'm wrong about the meaning of the 'water ritual' in the Methodist church, by all means address it specifically -- the people I knew in school, as a kid, who were Methodists made it seem that it was similar or equal to water baptism in the Baptist church and Church of Christ.

[Neshanic]

48. There is confirmation, and then reaffirmations of faith.

Take the Methodist congregation that I grew up with for example. You went to confirmation classes, when you were about 13, and after these classes, there was a ceremony at service that recieved you.

I think that you mean the confirmation service.

Of our entire congregation, there was one person who would be considered "born again" and left after a woman was named the new minister.

This was a liberal East coast congregation, and they do vary, but again, generally it is a very liberal mainline denomination, but like all mainline denominations these days has been under pressure to become more rigid and conservative. The past ruling on gay inclusion or lack of is an example.

I did not mean to offend.

[Philostopher]

49. And I didn't, either.

I grew up in southern Ohio -- any misconceptions I may have had about the Methodists may very well have come from things I was told in school, by kids trying to 'fit in' and be like other kids by making comparisons between the rituals or their church and our churches, so we didn't think they were 'weird.' Being thought 'weird' is the ultimate discomfort when you're a kid, I know. I genuinely was weird as a kid!

The evangelical kids (and as a kid, I was one) were all raised to believe anybody who wasn't an evangelical was weird (and they tried to convince us they were wrong, too, but I didn't buy into much of that or I wouldn't be agnostic now) -- the Methodists were second-tier, though; the Catholic kids took it worst. There were no Jews where I grew up, but I can imagine they'd have had a damned near impossible row to hoe.

So any comparisons I know are from what I was told by other schoolmates when I was growing up, since I didn't attend the Methodist church myself.

[Nikia]

44. The Methodist Church was founded by Charles Wesley

He lead revivals, which were obviously very evangelical. I have never been to a Wesleyan Church or had friends who belonged so I don't know if that church is much different.

[Philostopher]

46. Thanks -- I thought he had something to do with it.

There's an Ohio Wesleyan college in Dublin, Ohio (near Columbus) that has a high school choral competition every year, I performed in it back in '81 or '82 when I was in high school. I remember getting the impression that Wesleyan roughly equated to Methodist back then, when we were visiting the campus, but that's about all I remember.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. I'm not sure he's ever said he is "born again" or evangelical,

I think he's purposefully vague enough to allow his supporters to fantasize that he's "just like us."

Laura Bush got annoyed in an interview with the idea that he "once was lost but now is saved" and talked about him being an acolyte in the Episcopal Church when he was a teenager.

Anyway, though "born again" is usually associated with the Baptist Church, it's not a phenomenon that confines itself to one denomination. "Born again" people do hook up with a new local church in most cases, but I think it's just a choice of a preacher more in tune with their new beliefs.

I have relatives who left the Methodist Church to become evangelical Presbyterians. Unlike normal Presbyterians, they are SURE they will go to Heaven. They are SURE that anyone who "gives himself to the Lord" will go to Heaven, no matter what he does. Not only are all former sins (like Dubya's) forgiven, all FUTURE sins are forgiven, with no need for reform or atonement. A perfect deal for anyone who wants to feel holier than thou and still do whatever they like.

[Ivan Sputnik]

23. He's nominally Methodist

but he doesn't even attend church regularly, does he? (Horrors!)

He became "born again" via Billy Graham, I've heard. And Graham is a Southern Baptist.

[happynewyear]

25. figgers

:puke:

:kick:

[madrchsod]

26. no he is not.

[boomboom]

27. I assume you mean

that Bush is not a Methodist because he doesn't appear to exhibit any of the characteristics of a man of faith. I agree. However, he does CLAIM to be a Methodist.

[DieboldMustDie]

28. As I understand it, Gee Dubya joined Pickles' Methodist church...

when they were married.   He was "born again" quite a few years later. :shrug:

[ogsball]

34. He claims Born Again after a weekend with Billy Graham

A very weird story about his mother inviting Graham up for the weekend to council with George. I don't know how many of us can claim a personal weekend with Billy Graham but that certainly is GW's story.

[Ilsa]

54. I believe that's the revised story.

The story as told by one of his Midland Men's Group friends to PBS' Frontline was that a traveling evangelist named Blissing or something spoke to him at a diner in Midland and that is where his heart "was convicted" and he accepted Christ. This was around his fortieth birthday. The earliest story I heard was that Pickles gave him an ultimatum because he was a drunk and drug addict and the girls were getting old enough to see what was going on. He denies this of course. Another part of that story was that family friends pushed hard to get him into the Men's Community Bible Group, etc.

The family called in BGraham later on a visit to Kenne to make certain he hadn't gone off the deep end, because they are not evangelicals. They re-did the story so it has the familiar name, etc.

Most of this was on a PBS program about Bush, his business failures, and religion, and how he felt "called" to run for prez.

[young_at_heart]

29. Which Methodist church does he go to?

Also, is he a regular? Years ago my husband and I were Methodists and I certainly don't recall Bush fitting the profile of that church....maybe it's changed since then?

[ogsball]

31. He's a member of Highland Park UMC

in Dallas Texas. BTW Dick Cheney is a member of the same church. I think as of a couple of years ago it is the biggest United Methodist Church in the country.

[A Simple Game]

41. That's not possible,

Chaney's not from Texas! Don't believe me, ask him. If he remembers to lie, he'll tell you.

[ogsball]

52. LOL! nt

[ogsball]

32. United Methodists are Evangelical

in the traditional sense. That is they believe it is essential to make an intentional committment to Jesus Christ for one to be saved. They are not necessarily "born againers" per se but it wouldn't be unusual to find a Methodist who would say they are born again.

The "born again" movement is realy the neo calvinists that are embodied in the Baptist (read Graham) movement who believe in once saved always saved something Methodist's don't believe in.

They interesting quote, which I don't have right off, is from Seymor Hersh who said that Bush began his governing style as a Modedrate Methodist but has evlovled into a Strict Calvinist. Methodist are known more for working through their faith to find balance where the Calvinist just believe they are given the truth and the ignorant will never understand it.

[wabeewoman]

35. Not the Methodist church

I attended as a child. Those people were calm, rational, non-judgemental human beings. The Assembly of God up the road or "holy rollers" as we called them because they would get so excited they would speak in tongues and actually roll on the floor were evangelicals. They were nice people too. I don't believe bush is any religion-he just uses the born agains because they are the most gulliable.

[MUSTANG_2004]

36. Depends on what you mean by evangelical

Technically speaking, all Protestant churches are evangelical in that they base their beliefs on the Gospels and believe that people experience a spiritual transformation by accepting Christ.

[Kimber Scott]

39. And the United Methodist Church was against the war. He doesn't

listen to his church's direction, but shame on Kerry the sinner for not wanting to impose his pro-life beliefs on the rest of the world. Bush won't listen to anybody, but he pandered to the Catholic vote by trying to suck up to the Pope. Good thing the Pope was too quick for him.

I think the thing I hate about Bush the most is his blatant hypocrisy.

[Alex146]

40. new slogan Bush: Putting the meth into methodist

[intheflow]

47. Perfect!

[Nikia]

42. Methodists, by my experience, vary quite a bit

I know there is an organizational structure to the United Methodist Church. Each church isn't independent, but the churches do vary quite a bit. Both my grandfathers were raised Methodist in different towns. My dad's mother joined her husband's church and raised her family in it. My step mother belonged to a different Methodist church in town from my father's family. My dad and stepmother later joined a Methodist church in a nearby village they moved to. All these Methodist churches and membership differed. They varied by how much charity type work they did, ranging from almost none outside their congregation to being the principle organization in town feeding the hungry. Some had foreign missionaries. Some didn't. They each followed the order of worship to varying degrees. They varied in their spirituality type experience. They varied in their music. The village Methodist church did actually have alter calls where people rededicated themselves to the Lord. They also had quite a youth program and were non judgemental about proper church wear. As a result, there were a number of children and teens raised in non religious households who decided to be baptized themselves and as well as a few adults. In all but one of the churches, there were a fair amount of people who would say that they were "born again" with more in the village Methodist church. It wasn't required though for membership though.

[Abelman]

50. Speaking AS an old member of a Methodist Church

I would have to say * is not one. At least at the churches in my area, Methodists were very progressive and accepting of everyone, regardless of denomination. Very liberal. I would actually compare my experience with some Eastern religions - a belief that God is inside everything (like the Tao almost) and that life should be lived somewhat moderately (ala Buddhism).

[Lenape85]

53. He makes me ashamed...

I was baptized into that church

[Dob Bole]

55. Methosidts ARE evangelical...

The origin of evangelicalism in the U.S. is Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians. Since that time (the 1700s) there have been additions to evangelicals, such as Pentecostal groups, nondenominational churches, evangelical Lutherans, Wesleyans (even more evangelical than mainstream Methodists.)

And there's a history lesson.