Bin Laden Video. Real or Fake

[maveric]

Just a simple black or white question.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. It is a real tape. And its effect is real.

click blog link, see rant.

[maveric]

4. With the real OBL?

He looked too healthy for someone with Kidney disease.

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. well, no, not the exact OBL, but the target audience is not known

for being terribly picky about these things.

[ROH]

12. You wrote: "well, no, not the exact OBL..."

Either it is OBL or it isn't?

[Minstrel Boy]

14. "Either it is OBL or it isn't?"

It could be both at the same time.

These days, I believe, OBL the man has little bearing on OBL the myth.

Who he was isn't as important a question as what it was.

[ROH]

20. Should truth be considered as being less important than ...

the effect created?

[Minstrel Boy]

24. That sounds like old, "reality-based" thinking.

"That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?pagewanted=6

[DuctapeFatwa]

26. It is not the child borne by Mrs bin Laden long years ago

if your definition of bin Laden requires the presence of that exact same individual, however the actor does represent the popular concept of "Osama" in the mind of the US public, and they do not require that the symbol either speak or resemble the son of Mr and Mrs bin Laden.

It is kind of like the US justice system. A crime has been committed, and an arrest must be made, and the arrestee brought to trial and convicted.

It is not so important that the defendant be the exact individual who pulled the trigger. If the jury feels that he represents those who commit such crimes well enough, society will be satisfied that justice has been served.

[ROH]

30. It comes down to principles, and ...

you state that the tape does not show Osama bin Laden, "the child borne by Mrs bin Laden long years ago".

Whether or not the Osama depiction in the tape satisfies society, do you think that ends always justify means?

[DuctapeFatwa]

31. Well, *I* do not think that this particular end is justifiable at all

But then I am one of those people who do not even accept the premise that the world and all its riches, mineral, human and otherwise, are US property.

However, I believe that both producers and audience of the tape in question hold that premise very dear, and it is quite clear to all those who have lost limbs and loved ones that the US will stop at nothing to achieve its ends, and is rather phasing out even the pretense of attempting to justify them.

[DenverDem]

2. Bin Laden, real or fake?

FAKE.

He's an al CIAda asset, paid for and controlled by the power elite for their hegelian shenanigans, nothing more.

[camero]

3. Fake

How long can a person live on dialysis? Unless he's had a kidney transplant, which is a real possibility. But I think it's either faked or staged.

[GliderGuider]

5. The tape itself is real...

The "Osama" it purports to show, however, is not.

[fortyfeetunder]

7. What I was waiting for

Was for OBL to say

"I'm Osama binLaden and I approve this message"

[Ima]

9. rotflmao

OR "I am * and I approve this message".

[fortyfeetunder]

11. * might use this in last minute campaign ad

* might use this to say "the terror is still with us" Be safe, vote for me....

[Marxdem]

8. Its real

If its a fake, Rove sure didn't do a good job to make it look good for Bush. It would have been more effective if Osama said something about hoping for Kerry to get elected...it didn't.


The tape is real.

[H2O Man]

10. Real.

Those who don't think Usama bin Laden is real should read "Imperial Hubris" by Michael Scheve. He explains why this administration has done this country a huge wrong by making UbL out to be a one dimensional "mad man." This is as foolish as thinking he was or is a CIA asset. The truth is that he is real, and that this administration has turned him into a far larger threat to the USA and parts of Europe than he was previously. We need a president who can pass an IQ test.

[sangh0]

25. It's the same crowd that's sitting on the Vreeland story

Evidence isn't necessary. Just a good story line.

[wordout]

36. prove to me it is real

i need evidence.

[democracy eh]

27. Yes I just finished reading Imperial Hubris

he got Osama bang on

I encourage all to read

[Cat Atomic]

13. It's real, and that's the real Osama bin Laden.

However, the timing couldn't be more suspicious, and I do think it's possible that the Bush campaign had some role in getting it aired at the right time.

[StupidFOX]

15. If it were a KKKarl production...

It would have subtly supported Kerry. It's too ambiguous.

[ilovenicepeople]

35. The "Pet Goat" part

subtly supports Kerry,OBL was sounding like Micheal Moore.

[Sarrek420]

16. The Boggie Man

Osama BinLaden is a Psychological Warfare tool. Notice how every time a video of him has come-out, it followed something critical of super dubya?

The other day while at work, when the video of explosives came out on the news. I told a few co-workers of mine who are skeptical about my position of OBL, that "you watch, in a few days, we're going to see a video of OBL or an audio tape from Al Queda."

Sure enough, right on time, there it is..

[VOX]

17. Real, but orchestrated...

Signed, sealed and delivered by Karl Rove.

[leftofthedial]

18. it's a real fake

emanuel goldstein stuff

[0007]

19. I don't know! It looked too smooth to be real.

[WMliberal]

21. better question. is it old or new

i don't doubt that it's real. I just question the timing. This could have been from 6 weeks ago for all we know. Since * couldn't cage and then produce bin Laden himself, he is throwing this feeble crap and sending the troops into Fallujah.

[CosmicVortex21]

22. Attack of the tin foil hats!

[Robbie67]

23. Real. Who would fake it? Why?

Rove and Bush? What Osama said didn't really help him in any way. This useless speculation is getting old.

[seventhson]

28. The Spectre. The Boogeyman. The FEAR! THIS is the Bush Mantra!

YOU WILL ALL BE DEAD

if you do not vote for me.

Of course this is designed to help Bush and is very likely a Cheney-Halliburton-Saudi-Carlyle production

Fear is the ultimate Nazi propoganda tool.

Those on the edge may be pushed to vote for Bush out of fear.

On the other hand the smart folks will see through it as a Rovian ploy (as Cronkite said) and it will NOT work.

The old tricks do not work any more for Rove and the Bushes.

So it was a stupid stunt that will backfire on them.

[richardk]

29. I believe it's really OBL but....

I think it's a Karl Rove video, maybe they Captured him and are now using him to attack Bush. Bush\Cheney love doing this, when Kerry is on the attack, Bush starts talking about the Terrorists, and how they are our enemy, so heres Kerry attacking Bush, Terrorists attacking Bush, then they covertly raise the question "Do the terrorists want Kerry to win?"

Notice that Osama didn't have a gun behind him? if he's captured they wouldn't put a gun anywhere near him and are too stupid to put a fake one it. He looks a little too health to me, ya know? for being on the run or living in a cave.

And the Bush attack about the "My pet goat" thing, that reeks of Karl Rove. The only person that could benefit from that line is Bush\Cheney.

...and overall it sounded corny, ya know? Osama making a truce? maybe it's real maybe not. But if it is a Karl Rove thing, how does Bush think he is going to hide that stuff if Kerry wins? Catch Osama after the November 2nd election and before Kerry is sworn in? Who knows!

I'm shocked that Osama didnt say "That flip-flopper Kerry" or "Liberal Kerry".

[Mr_Spock]

32. I actually thought the image of Osama looks computer generated

He looks two dimensional and he has a sort of halo haze around his outline. I don't really care who did it or why - it just looks to me like he isn't real.

[walldude]

33. Real or fake

Doesn't matter. I only read a transcript of the video but whoever it was said exactly what alot of people have been saying since 9/12. It's Americas foreign policy that caused the attack on 9/11 and the only way to stop more attacks is to change our foreign policy. America's foreign policy causes the deaths of untold innocents every year. Until we are able to look at ourselves and our allies and admit where we are making MISTAKES then terrorism will never stop. Terrorism is a weed. Cut it down and 3 more will grow in it's place. Pull it out at the roots and it's gone for good...

**Edit** Oh and I don't see why the Administration would have anything to do with this, it sure didn't portray Bush in a good light, unless you count that asshole on Faux who said he thought Osama was wearing a Kerry for Pres button...

[AliceWonderland]

34. My current standard for believing any piece of "evidence" is:

Could it be verified and/or authenticated if examined by independent professionals? Could it be admitted to a court of law as evidence?

If not...no thank you, it's unverified supposition.

My subjective opinion is that OBL is most likely a myth used by various parties for various purposes at various times. At the very least, the timing on this tape should make any grown-up laugh out loud.