Why should we vote for Kerry over Nader?

[Gothic Sponge]

(I'm trying my best to get some Nader fans on another board to go with Kerry. Here is what i wrote.)

In a better political climate Nader, or Cobb would probably have my vote. However, supporting them right now is a luxury that Americans cannot afford! We know they don't stand a chance of winning. This election is too important to waste a single vote. It's outcome will not just effect the next four years. It may determine who sits on the supreme court for the next 40 years, or more...

A friend of mine said to me "I'm going to vote for Nader, just to make a point." A point? we can't afford a vain, moralistic stance! Yes, i agree this government needs an overhaul, but you can't remodel a house when it's on fire! We've got to put out the fire first!

I'm not a big Kerry fan, (i voted Kucinich) but given the choice between Bushes corrupt, vile, inept Presidency, or a fresh start......Even if it maybe the lesser of two evils.....I'll take the lesser.

If Kerry gets in, Liberals/Progressives will have 2 jobs. To thwart off false right-wing attacks on Kerry, and to hold Kerry's feet to the fire on issues.

I'm willing to take that challenge on if it means saving what's left of our democracy!

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

4. this is productive

i signed up...thanks. state is fairly safe.

[kranich]

2. Th emost obvious reason

is that Darth Nader cannot win and therefore a vote for Nader could only help get someone one 100 times worse then Kerry in office.

[UdoKier]

3. Has Nader done ANYTHING to deserve our vote?

Why should I vote for a man who hangs out with Grover Norquist, has documented connections to the corporations he purports himself to watchdogging, who gladly accepts GOP money and support, and who has done nothing to try to bring the democratic party in the right direction. Why should I give my vote to a guy who isn't even on the green ticket anymore? What on earth would be the point?

[ibegurpard]

5. They won't listen if you call them vain and moralistic

Try to find common ground and LISTEN to their greivances. I agree with many of the people who are dissatisfied with the party as it stands now but I had to make a choice. That choice meant swallowing my beefs to try to ensure that we get some breathing room from the fascist threat that threatens to overwhelm us.

[BootinUp]

6. waste of time probably

If they already know what has happened over the last 4 years, and they know how corrupt and incompetent this administration is, and they still want to vote for Nader. Then don't waste your time. JMHO.

[DuaneBidoux]

7. Study the history of how FDR packed the courts

Virtually everything we have now in the way of rights comes from the judges FDR packed into the courts during his 4 terms in office. The right to organize unions, the weekend, the right to hold a company responsible for damage to people who consume its products, and the right to hold the company liable when unsafe conditions hurt the worker...all these came from the FDR judges.

Bush is half way to the point of getting all the judges he needs to roll back 100 years of progress. With four more years of his kinds of judges, even if Nader IS elected president in 2008, the courts will rule everything he wants to do unconstitutional even if the legislation gets passed.

And those are, as they say, the facts Jack.

[mediaman007]

25. Absolutely, its the courts

If Kerry is elected and the Republicans hold the House and Senate, at least we can place moderate judges. Bush* and a Republican Congress will be casting a dark shadow over America for close to 30 years.

[Digit]

8. Cause Nader doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning....

...and it will be throwing away the vote, most likely making * get reelected/selected.
Are they draft age????

[Mz Pip]

9. In January

either George Bush or John Kerry will be sworn in as President. Whatever your friend's "point" is in voting for Nader in the grand scheme of things it is meaningless.

The primaries are the time to vote your passion. Only the people who supported Kerry in the Primaries have the luxury of voting their passion. THe rest of us can vote for a decent, intelligent man who will make a far better president than the squatter that's in there now.

I know many people who flushed their votes for 3rd party candidates in previous elections - I was one of them. Not this time. The stakes are too high.

MzPip
:dem:

[killbotfactory]

10. the last time nader voters made a point, we got Bush

One of the worst, if not THE worst, presidents in US history.

Our country can't withstand another four years of this idiot.

[aquart]

13. You know what? I can forgive Bush voters.

I don't think I will ever forgive Nader voters. They know what Bush is and they still want to make their obnoxious, egotistical, world-as-it-should-be point. Useless.

[dave502d]

11. Send them to bartcop and tell them to play free Show 52.

http://www.bartcop.com/subscribe6.htm

[CindyDale]

19. Hey, Naderites: It's a bad idea to destroy the U.S.

Some Naderites say they want Bush to win and destroy America.

If Bush wins and destroys America and/or we have a civil war, we'll probably end up like Iraqis: no jobs, no working refrigerators, no air conditioning, and who knows what else.

Personally, I think it's a really bad idea to destroy America. I've just been through the Florida hurricane season, and I simply can't deal with the idea.

Cindy

[Peregrine]

12. Where has Nader been for the past 4 years?

After a brief period after the 2000 election where he answered angry questions about him being responsible for Bush's election, what did he do since?

Was he an active voice against the policies of the current administration?

Did he lead protests in the streets against the war in Iraq?

Did he fight for the health rights of the poor?

Did he actively support Green or other 3rd Party candidates in the off-year state and local elections and the Congressional elections?

The answer to all of these questions is NO!

As far as I am concerned, because he did nothing, the only reason he is running for president is to feed his already inflated ego.

Fighting for economic justice is not a once every four year job. It is a 24/7 job and if you ain't doin' it, you don't deserve a single vote.

[The Blue Knight]

16. 3 words: Surpreme Court Appointments eom

[Julien Sorel]

14. What point does voting for Nadir make?

The idea that both parties are identical, which is what fuckface, hangdog Ralphie goes trotting around the country (on the Republicans' dime) spouting, is silly to anyone who looks at their platforms and history. Other than that, what exactly is the "point" of voting for Nadir?

If both parties are the same, why do wealthy Republican backers spend so much time and money helping Nadir to frustrate Democrats? They shouldn't care, should they, since Democrats should be the same to them as Republicans -- if "both parties are the same." The people funneling money to fuckface, hangdog Ralphie should be as hostile to Nadir as Nadir is to Democrats. For that matter, if both parties are the same, why is it that Nadir spends the vast majority of his time bashing Democrats? Why doesn't he spend his time attacking Republicans? Since "both parties are the same," both parties are equally evil, and thus, should suffer equally from the righteous wrath of fuckface, hangdog Ralphie, who, thank God, won't be around for too many more years spouting his illogical nonsense.

[Born Free]

15. If Nader really wants to make a change...

he needs to run in the democratic primary and make his points known. It's the only way to affect change.

[Nicholas_J]

17. My girlfriend and I were able to convince one firm Nader supporter

To vote for Kerry by using several methods. ONe was to debunk all of Naders claims that the Democrats are beholden to special interest groups.

They may be beholden to special interest groups, but most of these groups are groups that look out for the interests of the average citizen and not big business. Organizations like Planned Parenthood, the Sierra Club, the Nature Conservancy, and dozens of othe special interests groups are the largest supporters of Democratic candidates. And these organizations are not loooking after the interests of big business, but they are looking after the interests of the average person. For decades, the Democratic Party was also looking after the interests of Ralph Naders special interest group as well. Nader has built himself a tidy fortune with his special interest organization as well.

Nader has accepted campaign contributions from a number of rather unscupulous groups as well, such as recieving funds from Swift Boat Veterans for truth. These people are not just anti-Kerry, but many are very well placed corporate executives who look after the interests of large corporations. Most suspect about Naders contributions is found in his disclosure statements about contributions. A full quarter of his contributions come from a source called "Other" 100 thousand dollars of his 3 million dollars have come from Republican funders and Republican CONSULTANTS. THis information does not come from Democrats, but from a progressive source, "Common Dreams" This puts Ralph in bed with some of the sleaziest big money fat cats who have been running the sleaziest political smears in decades. Of course Ralph has srugged off these revealtions by stating that he did not get the money from the Swift Boat Veterans organization itself, but from individual members. Swift Boat Veterans has exisited in one form or another for decades a well. This campaign they set themselves up as te group called "Swift Boat Veterans". But there has not been a campaign since the Nixon years where members of this group have not been involved in running smear campaigns for Republicans and large corporate interests.

For all his talk about big money and corporate interests controlling the nation, Nader has been just as involved in taking money from these people in order to further his own personal ambitions.


Also by supporting Nader, you create a greater possibility of placing George Bush back into office for another four years. In the last 4 years, George Bush has done more to roll back many of the programs regarding the environment, tax fairness, support for the middle class and working classes than all of the Conservatives who have come to office since the great depression. Even one vote that improves Bush's winning this election will aid Bushin his ability to roll back ALL of those programs, to get rid of more environmental regulations, to eleiminate more worker benefits. to give even more tax cuts to the wealthy. I would say that during another campaign cycle with another president, it might be worth the risk of voting you conscince by voting for Nader. But living with ones conscience if votes for Nader that could have gone to Kerry and allowed a more candidate who is closer to Nader's progressive platform should be impossible.

Before Nader decided to run for office, while he did not endorse any candidte, he made several statements about the large group of candidates who were running. He stated that of all the candidates, Dennis Kucinich's platform was closest to his. Out of the candidates who have a chance of winning, John Kerry' had the platform that was closest to his. Nader himself stated that John Kerry was the candidate who was most likely to win who had a platform closest to his own.

[Robbie67]

21. Nader said that about Kerry?

Do you have a link?

[Nicholas_J]

24. I cant find it

I posted it to DU when the candidates were running for the nomination. THe wholw thing wa that out of all the candidates Kusinich was the one who was closest to his policies, That Kerry was the most electable candidate who was closest to his position. Then he went on to state that Dean had to be complimented on his having gotten so many young people involved with the campaign.

I tried to google on this when I saw your question, but given all of the articles about Nader since he became a candidate, there are just too many to go through. I am sure that it was in January 2004. And I know that Judy Woodruff interviewd Nader in February and referred to Nader endorsing Kucinich in January. There is some question as to wheter Nader actually endorsed Kucinich, but the question was asked.
But unfortunately, Once the nomination arguments here on DU were over, I got rid of my very large list of bookmarks to article.

[noiretextatique]

18. what will any of us do if the election is stolen again?

and all the votes for kerry, *, nader, cobb, et al, are negated by SCOTUS.
i know...the idea is to give them less opportunity to steal it. does anyone believe that would have worked in 2000? if the election is fair, kerry will win, as gore won in 2000. if it isn't...what then?

[ezekiel333]

23. Nov. 3

<http://www.nov3.us>

[noiretextatique]

27. i signed it already

i hope everyone does.

[amandabeech]

20. SCALIA!

If Bush gets to appoint 3-4 judges on the S.Ct. and many, many in the minor leagues of the U.S. District and Appellate Courts, you can forget the modern world, because the founding fathers did not contemplate it.

And Supreme Court judges are on the bench for life, and I believe others must take senior status at 75 or so.

You can forget voting rights, labor laws, environmental laws, any and all regulation of business.

These idiots want to go back in time to the worst capitalist excesses of the late-1800s.

They even hate Teddy Roosevelt who tried to set aside some land from development and tried, albeit with limited success, huge business monopolies and conglomerates that controlled everything and named their own prices.

Look, it was only in the early 1900s that child labor laws were ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. So you don't have to take a bullet for Halliburton.

Is that a good enough reason?

[Cleita]

26. Because Kerry can win and actually be President.

Nader has no chance whatsoever.