We should respect the "Office" of the President?!!

[elehhhhna]

Ridiculous.

When an unelected radical governs like a despot with a mandate, we must repay such disrepect in-kind. The most divisive, reckless, irresponsible Leader we have ever installed hardly deserves to be treated as anything but a threat to our nation. His lack of respect for our country, our military, and our citizens WILL NOT STAND.

[KingChicken]

1. Thats what American is all about, no one "must" respect the leader

The most important thing about democracy, the right to voice your opinion, regardless of what that opinion is.

[skylarmae]

2. well then, we had better win by large margins! n/t

[ck4829]

3. If the President is intelligent, knows how to lead, and won the election

Then I might support the President

[Benhurst]

4. . . .

:thumbsup:

[purji]

5. Like the republicans respected Clinton ?

Thats the way I respect Bush. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

[greyfox]

10. Indeed

and they hounded him for 8 full years and IF (OH GAWD) Shrub pulls this electoral fluff like he did in 2000, we need to keep on the firing line:

www.votetoimpeach.org

[donheld]

30. The repuglicans sure are a nervy bunch

after 10 years of pounding away at the Clintons now they have the nerve to say ANYTHING about respecting the office. These people are insane.

[TexasSissy]

6. Of course we should respect the office of the Presidency. Just as

we should respect the laws of the country.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't work to get someone else elected, to change bad laws, sue to ensure a fair election, etc.

But anarchy is NOT the answer. And respect for the offices of our leaders must always be. Otherwise, no leader will ever be respected, since someone ALWAYS disagrees with every leader at some point in time. And they can't effectively do their jobs without respect.

You either believe in respect for an office, or you don't. I do. It is the OFFICE, not the person, that is being respected. Our country needs that.

[BattyDem]

7. I respect the "office" ....

but that doesn't mean I respect the person in the office. :evilgrin:

[greyfox]

11. Amen to that

I respect my car, but don't want my 2 year old grandson driving it!

[luaneryder]

14. That's how I look at it

I respected rank in the military, but that didn't mean I respected the person holding that rank.

[Nordic]

27. it's BECAUSE I respect the office that I HATE Bush!!!

The man does not deserve to be anywhere but in jail, certainly he deserves no legitimacy of any kind and it is an absolute INSULT to our country, to the world, and to the human race in general that the man is allowed in to the goddamn WHITE HOUSE.

If he were just some middle manager in a bank somewhere, which is about all he should be able to handle (although I'm sure he'd fuck that up too) I wouldn't give a damn about the prick.

[Kanary]

8. Your title says it..... there's a difference between the OFFICE and the

PERSON.

Civics 101.

Kanary

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. Any office is only worthy of as much respect as the man who holds it.

Or woman, as the case may be.

The idea that the Presidency is to be respected just because it is the Presidency is stupid. The very idea smacks of primitive and superstitious totem-worship.

[nookiemonster]

12. I think Teddy had a handle on it! He was a Republican too!

The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

[f1 dad]

13. One of our projects between Nov. 3 and Jan. 20...

should be to dig up as many quotes as we can from the flatearthers who've demanded over the last 4 years that we "respect the office of president". So when they start their smear attacks on President Kerry, we can rub these quotes in their face exposing their hypocrisy.

[ET Awful]

15. I do respect his office . . .that oval shape is very relaxing, as is the

blue carpet :)

[porphyrian]

16. Two Kinds of People

Some people feel that positions of authority are only attainable by people worthy of holding them. They believe that, while there is the occasional aberration, the people who hold these positions knowingly accept the burden of great responsibility and should be afforded the respect of any who would accept such an important position.

Other people feel that positions of authority are nothing without someone holding them, and that it is not a given that the person deserves respect merely by accepting one of these positions. These people believe that respect is for individuals who earn it.

I am one of the latter people.

[TahitiNut]

17. That's a militarist meme - a common exhortation in the military.

Military personnel are constantly advised that they're saluting the rank, not the person. It would always seem a bit bizarre to me - that officers were seen so broadly as total assholes and unlikable that enlisted people had to be told this constantly.

[rman]

18. ah, the good old "don't critsize the leader"

Indeed the stuff that Despots are made of. Even the DLC tried it ("it'll make us look bad") when Howard Dean dared to critisize the president.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

[m berst]

19. beware the man on horseback

Without an appreciation and respect for the concept of the office of the presidency - larger than the person holding it, and symbolizing representative democracy, and belonging to the people - we are opening ourselves up to tyranny. We are saying that our respect for the office will depend upon the person holding that office, which places the person above the office. Placing a person above the office is a recipe for dictatorship.

I find it particularly ironic that people would confuse the office with the person at this time, since all of the energy and focus over the last year that could have led to radical reform and a strong progressive movement was channeled into a get out the vote effort as the end-all and be-all of our options. Anyone suggesting that an election campaign, and especially one geared to practicality and electability, was an inadequate and weak response to the threat of tyranny was hooted off the stage with derision.

On another thread today someone is saying that if Kerry wins we can congratulate ourselves as having beaten back an attempt at heisting our democracy and have prevented tyranny, similarly to what the colonists accomplished with the revolution. This is clearly illogical. Either it was not a heist - or it was a pretty weak one, and therefore a contradiction in terms - or it could not be stopped with a mere election. Either the isntitutions exist or they don't. Either they are working or they are not. It is in the hearts and minds of the people that these institutions - the concepts of the ofice of the presidency and the practice of representative democracy - live, and only there.

This was the problem with the DNC strategy all along. We were asked to use the threat of tyranny as a motivation to do things that would never stop tyranny. If you can merely vote a dictator out of power, then he is not a dictator. If you replace one man on horseback with a better man on horseback, you have accepted and embraced the tyranny of rule by a man. Some will be good, but some will be bad. Respect for the office places a set of rules and principles above any man, good or bad.

Everywhere at all times a strong man or woman grabs dominance over the group. The concept of a position from which power is wielded, with a set of standards and checks and balances against arbitrary and autocratic power was hard won over a thousand years or more through much sacrifice. To say "I will respect the office when the person holding it is someone who appeals to me" is to invite tyranny.

[paulk]

22. good post

:toast:

[aden_nak]

20. Only as much as the Officeholder.

[wovenpaint]

21. * himself doesn't show respect for the office of the Presidency!

How on earth can I respect a man who takes the highest office in the land and then systematically destroys our environment, our careers, our sense of security, our young men and women in the military, the Iraqi people, our health care system, womens' rights, our children's education, our relationship with other countries, etc., etc.????
I respect the office of the Presidency, but feel appalled at his abuse of it.
I believe that one has to give respect in order to BE respected. As pResident of the United States, he has shown disdain for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and thereby the office of the Presidency itself! Not to mention all the citizens of this country!

JMHO

[g-money]

23. Bush wasn't elected, so why should we respect him?

[Hoffnung]

24. We haven't been kicked in the ass hard enough by this admin

to know any better.

I don't respect Bush regaurdless of which office he's in.

[m berst]

25. because as liberals...

... we have a basic respect for all human beings, and we have a respect for the principles and ideals the office represents. We may not respect the actions of the man holding the office at any time, but that office belongs to the people and should not be tarnished or weakened.

People mischaracterize and trivialize the importance and urgency of opposing this adminstration when they make personal attacks on the man and then let that splash over onto the office as well.

We witnessed an 8 year hatefest against President Clinton. We can, and must, do better.

[noiretextatique]

26. * is not the President

he wasn't elected. that fact alone disgraces the office...its history, significance, and value. that he is also a disgrace makes it even more important to oust him, and his band of theives, crooks, miscreants, misanthropes and liars, from the office.
there is a vast difference between what the rw did to clinton, and a twice-elected, popular, intelligent President, and the condemnation that bush, inc has earned, and rightly deserved.

[m berst]

34. agreed

I couldn't agree more, and the disgrace is that the people allowed this to go on for the last four years. I ran into so much opposition when I suggested back before Bush was even nominated that he represented an extraordinary and dire threat to the country, and then after the election when I tried to rally people to fight the outcome. The party and all of us sullied the office when we let it be stolen. People were very reluctant to see the 2000 election as anything beyond partisan politics as usual, and many are still reluctant to look beyond that.

I am arguing, and have been arguing for 10 years, for a stronger response to the threat from fascism, not a weaker response. Hatred of Bush is IMHO a weak response. Focusing solely on ousting him, is IMHO a weak response.

Of course there is a vast difference between what the right wing did to Clinton and the condemnation of the Bush adminstration. This isn't a matter of who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, though, because that gives what the right wing has done far too much credibility. It elevates it to a level where a comparison needs to be made. The behavior of the Bush adminstration is off the scale, so to speak, and unacceptable and unworthy of comparison to any other administration or party leadership. Right wingers have been attempting to destroy our represntative democracy. The job is to defend and restore it, not merely to oust Bush.

In or out of office the band of thieves, crooks, miscreants, misanthropes and liars - which is an accurate assessment - are a danger to the country.

Mostly agreeing with you here noiretblu, but wanting to broaden and expand our view of the threat. The job is so much bigger than ousting Bush, and the threat began so much earlier than the 2000 election.

[noiretextatique]

44. i agree wholeheartedly

bush is just symptom of a much larger problem. i defintely concur with that, and appreciate your efforts to get that message out because it is very much needed. we can't rest on our laurels after kerry is elected...8 years of clinton should have taught us that. and 8 years of ronald reagan. thanks for this timely message, m berst :hi:

[m berst]

52. very good

Thanks for the response. I think it is an over-simplification to say that we have a choice to either be nice (roll over, give in, surrender, compromise) or be tough (an eye-for-an-eye, stoop to their level, fight fire with fire, payback time.)

IMHO nothing is gained with the "chimp" and "shrub" name-calling and mud-slinging, and something valuable is lost. Bush supporters have to resort to lies, character assassination and mud-slinging because that is all they have. I say don't let them box us into a little partisan us versus them corner of fighting tit-for-tat.

[BiggJawn]

28. I respect the office.

It's the illegitimate moron who's sqautting in it that I have a problem with.

[VelmaD]

29. Weren't y'all paying attention in history class...

I'm not sure if the story is true but it is certainly part of our national "mythos" that when they were debating what to call the President, Washington insisted on Mr President as opposed to "Your Excellency" or "Your Highness" or other crap like that because he didn't think the President was any better than any other American.

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. Actually, I believe Washington was referred to as "His Excellency".

Which is actually one of the "proper" styles of address for the President (though not much used).

[VelmaD]

32. Google is your friend

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=24513&query=Document%3A%20George%20Washington%3A%20First%20Inaugural%20Address

http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/RevAmerica/6-How/firstPresident.html

http://americanhistory.si.edu/presidency/2a2a.html

:)

[Sparkle]

33. I'll yell that to the repukes when Kerry takes office.

[belle]

36. Yes indeedy deed.

[LibertyLover]

35. Respecting the office of the president

Because I respect the office of the president of the United States of America is exactly the reason I oppose Bush and will vote for John Kerry.

[MadProphetMargin]

37. I don't respect an office. We have a president, not a king.

[dr.strangelove]

38. No - it is wrong to disrespect the office

Its kind of like that bullshit right wing christians say about gays and lesbians. "We hate the sin, not the sinner"
Well right back at you:
"I hate the asshole in the oval office, not the office he stole."

[ProfessorGAC]

39. Why Though?

The president works for US, not the other way around. He is just the highest ranking representative of the people. Why is that more worthy of respect than any other job?
The Professor

[dr.strangelove]

41. Because he is the highest ranking representative of the people

The POTUS is both a man that we elect and the office that leads our country. Regardless of who holds the office, the office is 230 years old and again every day. The office has a list of accomplishments that rivals any nation. The office earned my respect before I was born. I won't support disrespect of the Office just because an asshole is currently sitting in it. I don't care if you agree, and being a citizen gives you the right to love, hate, respect or disrespect whomever you like, I just think the office has earned my respect.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Fair Enough!

The difference between us is that the office or the chair someone sits in isn't the issue. A person earns respect, or they don't. The office is just that. A position created by the Constitution to run the executive side of government. The person sitting in that chair is that to be judged worthy of, or not, respect.

So, if the person is worthy of respect, i respect the presidency. If the person is not, the office is sullied. In that case, i don't respect the office, because the person in the job, such as now with Li'l Georgie, has polluted it.

Why the hostility, by the way? I asked a simple question. I don't understand why the inanimate position would be worthy of your respect. You say you respect the job. I don't understand why. And you got mad. Why?
The Professor

[dr.strangelove]

43. No Hostility Here

One of the difficulties I find at DU is reading emotion in a post. I in know way intended any hostility in my response. Was it my choice of words, "I don't care if you agree"? If so, I am sorry. I did not mean that to be read with any hostile emotion.

I also think that the office is more than just an office. Leaders of nations represent that nation at the "world table." It bothers me that bush represents this land, and the damage he has done will take Kerry years to repair. However, this does not remove the respect that I pay to the office. If I met bush, I would respectfully protest his actions as President. I think I can do this while respecting the office.

Anyway, sorry about the misleading hostility. I never meant to direct any toward you.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. That's What I Read Wrong, Yes

We can agree to disagree on this. We're not really that far apart. Just a minor difference of perspective. I read your "i don't care" comment incorrectly. No harm done, if no offense intended.

Nice chatting.
The Professor

[OneTwentyoNine]

40. Yes,except Bush isn't really the President,elected or acting......nt

[elehhhhna]

46. So we agree we respect the office as much/little as the officeholder does?

[Hello_Kitty]

47. I will always respect the Office but the man occupying it is a moron. n/t

[Cyrix]

48. Correct

"respecting the office" is bull shit the right uses against us when a repub is in office. But the moment a dem is in the go on full scale destroy mode.

[hangloose]

49. Respect the Office but demand accountability for the office holder

This country is slowly inextricable slipping into a Fascist state. It has been for some time, but the past four years has seen a rapid acceleration towards this end. We can point without doubt to the Neo-Cons and their poster child GW backed by shadow corporations. Once the majority of Americans realize this then maybe something will change. To all of you who seem to have time to write and comment Kudos’ but we need to move to the next step. Activism, involvement in the process otherwise stepping back after Kerry is elected will not stop the movement to a corporate state. We need to repeal the Patriot Act for a start.

[gulliver]

50. Respect is a two way street. The president did not treat ...

... anyone but his base with respect. That's worldwide. Those who don't give others due respect are not entitled to respect.

[Behind the Aegis]

51. Earned

Respect is EARNED not to be given freely! The OFFICE has my respect! The soon-to-be-deposed asshat in the OFFICE, will NEVER have MY respect! He will earn a modicum of respect from me if he concedes without tearing our political system to shreds!!!

[The Straight Story]

53. Reminds me of the 90's really when clinton was in

Which leads me to ask, will we be saying the same things to the right when kerry is in? Me, I am pretty much most ABB. At 7am tomorrow I cast my vote for kerry, but I expect we all will treat kerry the same exact way we treat *. Find all the faults, all the connections, and make damn sure we keep on him like a rabid dog.

Let's not let kerry slide. * sickened me, and will until he is gone. MANY MANY people here and elsewhere have worked hard not so much for kerry but for change in a positive direction. Today we can focus on getting him in - but tomorrow, I will focus on making sure he is not *-lite.

I don't have a devotion to kerry, or *, or any candidate running. I have a devotion to the ideals we all hold. And not matter who is in office I hope we all come together, as we have here, and find everything we can which will hold their feet to the fire.

If you think I am a little off, then go back through the archives and look at the primaries. Kerry was lambasted. Now he is the 'man'. Ok, he is not * and change is sorely needed (even some repub friends I have will probably vote kerry since they want some change, what is in there now is not cutting it). I guess my concern at this point is, having watched all this develop over some months, is that when kerry gets in we will treat him different than we have treated *. And for those that wish to my question is - why?

Tomorrow we kick the commander in thief out, tomorrow starts a new day - and it must also be a new day where we at DU start once again holding the feet of people put into office to the fire.

Perhaps what I am asking (and may need a new thread) is - what do you think kerry should do in his first 100 days and what do you envision America as in 4 years.

My worry is that we will hand him a hall pass, so to speak. In my 40 years I have learned not to trust politicians for the most part :) I have converted people I know to kerry, worked hard on my own personal level to get him in, and I hope and pray he does what WE the people put him there to do - from indian issues to Iraq I would like to know what we all here expect of him over the first term and first 100 days.

Go kerry, screw *, and the people will be heard tomorrow! Thanks DU people for helping me through these 4 years of *. It has been a relief to log on here and know there are people who see outside of the * box. Tomorrow we can rid ourselves of darth vader, let us keep vigilant!

[nemo137]

54. I respect the office, in that I accept the fact the W is signing laws

and that I treat him with the same respect I treat other elected officals. It's a simple matter of, I guess, faith in the fact that tomorrow, I'll pencil in an optiscan ballot and unelect him and put Kerry in instead.