Where does this division come from?

[Fear]

For some time I've been seriously wondering where this division between demecrats and republicans come from. On the Democratic side I can understand the disgust towards * supporters for the lack of knowledge of what's going on and happening.

But since when are these two parties enemies, doing whatever necessary to make life 'impossible'. Two times our JK/E sign was stolen, what is this?....why are the * supporters so 'mad? / crazy?'. Republicans trying to stop democrats from voting (sending out fake letters / phone calls)

Only three IRRELEVENT so called "hot" topics come up every time:
1) Stem Cell Research
2) Abortion
3) Gay marriage

These are issues that need to be addressed but compared to the OTHER stuff that is going on........it's IRRELEVANT!

So why are * supporters like lemmings behind *? Does it come from *'s little bullshit line a long time back *you are either with us or against us*, do republicans out of fear from that go with *? or do they sincerely believe that the 3 *hot* topics are of GREAT importance?

[JHB]

1. Three faultlines of the "war":

1) Civil rights
2) "Hippie-hate"
3) Watergate

All else flow from these.

[checks-n-balances]

2. Very insightful on these fault lines. Please explain #3 and where does

the religious right factor in?

Thanks!

[JHB]

9. Watergate

Watergate convinced the far right that "the liberals" (which included the Rockefeller/Eastern Establishment wing of the Republicans, and everyone to their left) would do anything to seize power and destroy the country, and they were going to stop that by any means. (That view had been building for years, but that was the final straw for them).

Thus, the funding of conservative "think" tanks to put a scholarly stamp on their views, and coalition-building throughout the late 70s.

In the mid-seventies, the people who would become the "religious right" weren't really concerned about abortion (and gays weren't quite on the map yet). They were worried about the breakdown of respect for authority (at one point, you could probably have drawn a bigger crowd to protest "Smokey and the Bandit" for its celebration of lawbreakers and caricature of authority figures than you could have gotten for an anti-abortion rally. Abortion was something Catholics got all hot and bothered about, y'see...). But there was plenty of common ground with the far right on social issues that I've broadly lumped together as "hippie hate.

Guys like Richard Viguiere saw the potential for an alliance that would boost their numbers, so they met with some receptive protestant preachers (most obviously, Jerry Falwell) and convinced them to make an issue of abortion (being against fornication makes you a fuddy-duddy, but who could be against protecting babies?)

Combining the religious broadcasters with Viguiere & Co's direct-mail fundraising apparatus, and you had an apparatus for bypassing the "liberal media" and pushing the field of debate in the direction they wanted.

[Fla Dem]

7. Also don't forget Clinton Gate.

That was the most extreme case of a party trying to usurp a sitting president for actions unrelated to his governance.

The fundamental, evangelical RW of the Republican party has done an extraordinary job of framing many of the Democratic ideals as evil.

They also have painted the Dem's as weak on defense, even though FDR was the president during WWII, Kennedy faced down Castro and the Kremlin during the Cuban Missile crisis, and for better or worse, Lydon Johnson was president for much of Vietnam.

However, it was the experiences of Vietnam that have helped caused the more liberal wing of the Democratic Party, to eschew all involvement in armed conflict.

[JHB]

11. Clinton wasn't a cause, he was the target...

...of the machine that had been forged out of the bitterness felt in RW quarters over the three I mentioned: His foes in Arkansas were the remains of the White Citizens Councils people, he was attacked as super-lefty Hippy Bill precisely because he WASN'T particularly liberal (he was arguably the farthest right of the Democratic contenders for the '92 nomination), and part of what drove the attack on him was an urge to "even the score" for Watergate.

[Fla Dem]

13. Yes, I agree with what you say. My point was that whole process

of the impeachment proceeding, Ken Starr's investigation, etc galvanized each side to the point of hate.

[Village Idiot]

3. How about the one nobody mentions?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION....

[TwentyFive]

4. Could HATE RADIO be the cause?

Rush, Hannity, Coulter, Savage, etc. accuse anybody not with Bush of being...traitors...America haters...perverts. Jerry Falwell claimed the gays and feminists caused 911.

Ann Coulter said on Hannity&Colmes last night that liberals would hate Muslims...except for the fact they are terrorists. (How she managed to disparage 2 groups with 2 lies in 11 words is amazing) So, Liberals like the Muslims because they are terrorists...but otherwise, we'd hate them because they are anti abortion and against gay marriage. (Her words) Then they showed protesters trying to physically attack her and throw pies at her.

[Fla Dem]

10. Yes BIG CAUSE. 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. Total brainwashing.

I don't know how they get away with it during an election period. What they spew is technically campaigning. Where is the equal time?

[JHB]

14. Not a cause, but a conduit, a gathering place...

Before media consolidation permitted guys like Rush to broadcast nationally, conservative talk radio was in many ways the precursor of internet forums: places where like-minded cranks got together and complained (except under the general direction of a cranky host whose claim was that he was just "telling it like it is".

Then a few guys were actually somewhat entertaining, so it wasn't just for cranks anymore, and then they started to go national, and the rest you've had to deal with...

[TahitiNut]

5. For me, it became starkly evident with Poppy Bush.

I was appalled at his divisive rhetoric. He'd constantly refer to the "real Americans" as opposed to those with whom he disagreed. It stunned me that his rhetoric of divisiveness was given a free pass by everyone in the media.

[MadHound]

6. A number of factors play into this

First of all, the stakes in all political offices have gone up. More money, more power, more ability to shape the policies that govern us, for better or worse.

Second, the last fifteen years of talk radio and the collapse of even handed media. Starting with Rush Limbaugh, the right wing has taken over the airwaves, and spewing hate and bile has become commonplace. Back in the days before the talk radio revolution, people could disagree on political issues, but still remain civil about matters. Since then, the right wing hate fest has bought out the worst in all of us. After years of slinging shit at the left, we at here on the left started stooping to their level and slinging shit back. Thus a vicious circle was born. In addition, despite what the RW claims, mainstream media has been pulled sharply to the right. And in order to get higher ratings, the talking head have become ever more outrageous in their vitriol. The Clinton years cystalized this, with the MSM making evil, distorted reports every single night(Clinton raped children, Clinton kills anybody who doesn't agree with them, then serves them with a nice red wine, yadda, yadda). With the attacks of 911, Virtually all of those in the media damn near broke their legs jumping on the faux patriotism bandwagon, in order to damn those who dared to question what our "great leader" was doing. Facts don't matter to the mainstream media anymore, just the spin.

Third, the Republican party, in order to gain more votes, has energized, and legitamized the Taliban wing of conservative Christianity. The abortion debate originally organized these folks, but they have been whipped into a foaming formation by years of high level manipulation. Whereas in the years after Roe v Wade, conservative Christians limited themselves to protesting, and voting(if they did vote) against RvW, now they have not only spread their issues to include matters such as school choice, foreign policy, domestic policy, etc etc. In addition, they have ratcheted up the stakes, going from peacful protest, to hateful screaming, to attempted intervention, to killing, all to get their issues in the spotlight. While the Republicans initially welcomed these people, I think they are starting to regret that welcome, for these truly scary conservative Christians have taken over large segments of the party, changing the party ideology to the point that moderate Republicans are barely welcome in the party anymore.

Fourth, I think that there has been a decline in the civility of our society in general. People are more rushed, more stressed, and more harassed than ever before. With families working two or more jobs, the decline of real world wages, the mad rush of our society is making everyone less civil, less polite and more hateful.

This all has taken a long time to come to fruition, and it will take a long time to make it go away. Some think it never will, but increase until we reach a boiling point and break into civil war. That is certainly the logical outcome if we don't bring it back under control, but that will take a lot of work. Matters like bringing back the fairness doctrine, and implementing a living wage would go a long way to helping matters, but if and when that will happen remains to be seen. Until them, we all have to do our part, on a person by person basis, to restore civilty to our society. The process has to start somewhere, so why not with us?

[TwentyFive]

17. I agree with much of your post - but what do we do about...

talk radio & the RW talking heads?

Example: I was channel flipping thru and landed on Ann Coulter talking on FOX last night. She was saying "liberals would hate Muslims...except for the fact they are terrorists." (How she managed to disparage 2 groups with 2 lies...in 11 words...is amazing.) She goes on "Liberals only like the Muslims because they're terrorists - but otherwise, liberals would hate Muslims because they are anti-abortion and against gay marriage." A film clip plays showing protesters physically attacking here and throwing pies.

This whole episode was so shrill and ridiculous, I couldn't believe my eyes & ears. But the sad thing is...I'm sure there are millions of people out there who took it all seriously - and it's just one more piece of evidence that liberals are evil and must be destroyed. The problem comes when we these people work with us, or live across the street. Even if we get thru to them, they will only assume we are the exception...we are a good (but deluded) liberal in a sea of liberals that want to destroy America.

It's a huge problem, and I wish I had the answer. How do you combat 'credible' sources like Ann, Rush, Sean, etc. who are drilling this nonsense into people's heads - 12 hours a day? It's like losing a family member to a cult.

[MadHound]

18. Two things that can be done.

Reinstate the fairness doctrine. It is no coincedence that Rush, et al started their rise to prominence right after Reagan abolished the fairness doctrine. If they had tried to do this when the fairness doctrine was in effect, they wouldn't have gotten any traction, since stations would have to air pro liberal programming for compensation.

Also, break up the media monopoly. We now have 5, count them 5 corporations controlling over 90% of this country's media. And with each and every one of them looking out for the bottom line, it is advantageous for them to suck up to the RW, pro monopolistic corporation party. If we broke these corporations up so that that there were the number of media conglomerates that we saw in the seventies, I guarantee that news reporting would be much more even handed. The RW loons like to bray about how "liberal" the media is. They are simply mouthing what their hate meisters put into their tiny brains, a meme that is outdated by at least twenty years.

These two actions would go a long way to breaking the stranglehold that hate radio and the RW in general have over our media.

[Vickers]

8. Don't forget, we hate America

:eyes:

After I served 8 years, to occasionally be accused of that...let's just say I "disagree" with them when they pull that shit.

[rman]

12. divide and conquer

God forbid the people would unite against the exploitation of their leaders.
Wealth and influence go a long way towards using the media to create wedge issues (some of which have been mentioned in this thread) in order to devide the people. That's where the devision comes from.
It isn't so much the specific issues that are important, what's important is where these issues come from. Even Hate Radio isn't so much the cause as it is one of the vehicles.

[BeFree]

15. From hate

There being a group of people who's hate for others is so consuming that any thing they can do to further that hate is what they do.

They started the fight, we will finish it.

Kerry will begin the healing process and together we will marginalize those who live to hate. If we are not successful, humanity has no future.

[whosinpower]

16. Republicans NEED division

They NEED enemies. Without enemies they have no basis to make a stand, or a good vs. bad scenario - how do you judge good when you have nothing to compare it to?

It is interesting that even now, with a general election tomorrow - the republicans are STILL trying to keep the nation divided. Kerry is the only one I hear that is at the very least attempting to reunite the nation.

I also find it very illuminating that Bush calls on democrats to re elect him - BUT refuses to allow democrats to any of his rallies. So - we can determine from that fact that he is disingenuos with his offer. I read somewhere that at the beginnning of his rallies - they have to make some oath to bush...

I have no idea really when or how it got to be as rabid as it is now - but from a citizen's standpoint, it is very upseting that bush had a golden opportunity in the days and hours that followed Sept 11 - when not only Americans were united as never before - but the world was also united with them....and Bush utterly wasted it when he invaded Iraq.

[idiosyncratic]

19. I was apolitical for many years and voted third-party candidates

until the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings.

I was homebound at the time so I could watch, or listen on NPR, to every minute of those hearings.

Sometime during those hearings I finally understood the difference between Rethuglians and Democrats. Since then I have told many friends and acquaintances my conclusion:

Republicans are mean! Democrats are not.