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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:58 AM
Original message
which character in Shakespeare most resemble bush
On this topic, our current prez. is often incorrectly compared to Henry V (of the play of the same name) -- who starts as Prince Hal, the reckless youth, but who transforms & matures upon taking on the solemn mantle of responsibility as a war-time leader after his venerable father passes from the scene.


In fact, the correct comparison is to the Dauphin (also of the play Henry V), the impetuous, immature, self-important, self-absorbed, gratuitously insulting, close-minded, war-mongering, but cowardly, heir to the French throne who is insecure about under-performing his more thoughtful father and ends up committing war-crimes to compensate.

As for Cheney, he is Iago.
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Wat_Tyler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. He's a crap Richard III.
All the venom, none of the charm.
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. exactly
Richard III at least had charisma.
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DivinBreuvage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. No way! Richard III was bold, brilliant, and brave
and overcame enormous obstacles to steal the throne!
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't forget...
Henry V started a reckless and unnecessary war that made but temporary gains, created generations of enmity, and emptied his country's treasury.
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. yes, but he had a conscience
and at least he relfected upon hisactions. maybe JFK or LBJ with vietnam might be the correct comparison to Henry.
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slipperduke Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. true, but.....
Henry V also won the hearts of his men by making beautiful and articulate speeches at the drop of a hat.

Dubya can't pronounce nuclear.

I'd go for the Dauphin in the same play. Arrogant and smirking, he misreads Henry's chances of victory from the start, even going so far as to mock him with a gift on tennis balls. On the eve of the battle of Agincourt, the Dauphin is laughingly offering Henry the chance of surrender. But, when the blast of war blows in our ears, it is the Dauphin who is vanquished.

Please, please, please let that happen tomorrow.

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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Alas, poor Yorick
empty skull and all.
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. but, when alive, . . .
yorick had been a kindly court jester. kind of like al franken, if i must say.
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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wasn't there an
ASTOR somewhere along the line. Shrub looks sorta like ASS TORE.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. There was the character Bottom
who in the play Midsummer Night's Dream had the head of an Ass.

In the forest, the troupe of players discuss the logistics of their play. Puck appears and transforms Bottom to have an ass' (donkey's) head. The actors flee, but Titania awakes and falls in love with Bottom and orders her fairy servants to attend to him.

www.online-literature.com/shakespeare/midsummer/

And whadja know? Nearly 50% of Americans are also in love with a guy with the head of an ass. My vote has to go for Bottom..
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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. AHA!
Well, THAT will work... he shall be my choice then. Although I was sure there was a Lady Astor somewhere. LOL matters not. Bottom will work! That's where Shrub belongs.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. There was a real Lady Astor
the first woman MP in Britain. She was the target of Churchill in two apocryphal exchanges:
Astor: Mr. Churchill, you are drunk!
Churchill: And you are ugly. But in the morning, I will be sober again, and you will still be ugly.

and:
Astor: Mr, Churchill, if you were my husband, I'd put poison in your coffee.
Churchill: Madam, if I were your husband, I'd drink it.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. well done!
I was thinking of Bottom, also. Bush is a natural for the role. And your astute comment is dead-on.
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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. Bottom
exactly what I was thinking. Perfect!
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh my god- you're right. He *is* the Dauphin.
That's hilarious. I've heard the Prince Hal comparison before myself, but I never even thought about the asshole prince. That's a more apt comparison, alright.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Dauphin....hands down!
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. None at all....
All of Shakespeare's characters were wizards with words. Bad, sad or mad--they all knew their way around the English language.

Boring, stupid incoherence didn't play with the groundlings.


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kranich Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think
poor Yorick but instead of his head being detached it is up his ass.
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DivinBreuvage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Other potential candidates: Prince John and Richard II
Prince John was a child-murderer and battlefield loser who disgusted and alienated his own nobles. Richard II was arbitrary, arrogant and hopelessly ineffectual (though very eloquent, and at least he went out like a king).
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Hatalles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Richard II
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 12:28 PM by Hatalles
Aloof, "anointed", alone, and a complete idiot.

Wasn't he also the one that came to power by means of some mysterious circumstances? The death of the "seven sacred vials?"
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Richard II -- more like bush the elder
whiny and ineffectual, Richard II nonetheless had a certain honor and good people around him -- John of Gaunt might be scowcroft or colin Powell b4 Colin was neutered.
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. I WISH he was like Dick the Second ...
"Our lands, our lives and all are Kerry's - and nothing we have to call our own but ..."
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Gruenemann Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. I saw Richard II played as * at the Globe in 2003
Mark Rylance, artistic director of the London Globe theatre played Richard II, and it was obvious that he was heavily inspired by *. It was brillaint, to say the least.

Incidentally, there's a character in the play named "Bushy" and whenever Rylance said the name he gave it special emphasis.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. You know that tale told by an idiot mentioned in MacBeth?
He's that idiot.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. How about the drunken porter in Macbeth?
Porter :
'Faith sir, we were carousing till the
second cock: and drink, sir, is a great
provoker of three things.

Macduff :
What three things does drink especially provoke?

Porter :
Marry, sir, nose-painting, sleep, and
urine. Lechery, sir, it provokes, and unprovokes;
it provokes the desire, but it takes
away the performance: therefore, much drink
may be said to be an equivocator with lechery:
it makes him, and it mars him; it sets
him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him,
and disheartens him; makes him stand to, and
not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him
in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. Polonius....(nt)
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. polonious was ineffective
but a scholar. and wise.

polonious said: "neither a borrower or a lender be." the b*sh deficts borrow form future genrations.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. Malvolio from "Twelfth Night"
Petty tyrant butler who gets his comeuppance after the household staff revolts.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. But Smirk has never worked NOR served.
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KlatooBNikto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. I really think the Bard of Avon would have to invent a totally new
character that one can use to describe Bush.Every one of the characters referred to by posters here shows some human traits that one can identify with, be it positive or negative.Bush is so unrelentingly incapable of displaying any human qualities, it simply is not possible for us to accurately talk about any characters, singly or in combination that display his characteristics.About the only thing that I see in him is his desire to hurt other human beings,
especially those who are powerless to resist, be it Karla Faye Tucker on death row or the mothers and children of Baghdad or the prisoners at Abu Ghraib.I do not think even as perceptive a person as William Shakespeare could have conceived of a character as amoral and irremediably anti-human as Bush.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. Dauphin is great, but what about Dogberry?
A vain posturing fool who mismanages intelligence.
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. i am not familiar w/ dogberry
what play?
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. Dogberry is from "Much Ado About Nothing" he was a silly constable
with lots of malapropisms and ridiculous behavior
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GarySeven Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. Two from Titus Andronicus ...
either the title character, because he winds up making his guests eat their own children (sort of like saddling the next generation with the cost of our tax cuts), or Aaron who conspires with dark forces. Tomorrow, hopefully, Bush will be buried up to his chest in electoral votes and be forced to watch from the sidelines as all eyes turn to Kerry and his remaining weeks in office wither into obscurity.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. Dogberry.
At least that's who immediately sprung to mind.
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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Did you mean
DINGLEberry? LOL
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. One of the Globe's stage floor planks.
About as flexible, too.
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. * is the Dauphin, Cheney is Richard III, Ashcroft is Dogberry
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. Caliban from "The Tempest" ?
:shrug:
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mike from ri Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. that is wolfowitz
n/t
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
39. King Lear...
delusional, mad as a hatter and surrounded by sychophants
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Logansquare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
41. Any Shakespeare plays with puppets? n/t
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
42. Hamlet's evil stepfather, Claudius is it?
Weak cowardly backstabbing guy who *stole* his way into power...and ended badly.
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