How can we win against homophobia as a divisive "value" issue?

[Frangible]

I don't get it. How can homophobia be the most divisive issue in this election? How can we win in 2008 if homophobia matters more to most Americans than anything else?

[w13rd0]

1. Especially since the candidates...

...HAD THE SAME FARKING STANCE!!!

[Maat]

5. I've doing some thinking on this also.

If there are millions of fundies out there worried about "preserving traditional marriage" (i.e. bullying others with their small, bigoted view of the World), then why can't those who believe in justice and fundamental rights get together?

My solution is to 1) belong to DU, and 2) belong to the Human Rights Campaign.

Believe it or not, there are many fair-minded heterosexuals out there who badly want to provide support to their LGBT friends, and I'm one of them!

The HRC seems to be a highly effective lobbying and grass-roots activist group.

They bring people together, and politicians listen to them. They need to have a petition of spiritual/religious/atheist signers that support human rights.

[Orangepeel]

10. not exactly. there was that constitutional amendment thing

apparently, for 51% of the American people, bush hates homosexuality more because he's willing to change the constitution to codify discrimination against them.

[mark414]

2. i wish i knew

but i have no fucking idea

that's what cost us this election, that whole values thing

[stepnw1f]

7. They Won Because of their Hatred and Bigotry

They gave in to their own moral ineptness. Nobody had to give them an issue. The issue is an excuse.

[UCLA Dem]

3. its crazy. they're more worried about who marries who

than their own safety.

[Occulus]

4. By having our straight friends talk to the fundies FOR us.

Fundies... will not listen. I doubt they'll even discuss the issue openly (much less with an open mind toward who we really are) unless it's explained by someone they know is "like them."

I seriously doubt any fundie group would ever sit down and talk to us without setting aside the idea that we're "sinners" and abominations. Without doing so, what we have to say to them if we wish to reach out to them will fall upon deaf ears.

They need to hear who and what we are in our words, from a source they can trust. Such a source would, ideally, be a friend who wears a wedding ring.

Gays cannot hope to defuse the fear and "sinfulness" factor on our own. In this, we must humbly ask for help.

[Maat]

9. This Straight Friend tried to talk to her Fundamentalist

relatives ... and I got through in the sense that they understand where fairminded people come from, in terms of delineating our point-of-view, but, they still feel the need to "protect traditional marriage" (translation: continue their bigoted ways and feel superior to others - because they are so pathetic themselves).

[FM Arouet666]

13. Falls back to fear

I think this issue came to the forefront as a by product of fear. The 911 attack has galvanized those prone to conservatism. When the future is uncertain and dangerous, the weaker minded tend to fall back to conservatism. Hold the line, traditional values, promote the moral high ground etc. Unless the world becomes a safer place in the next four years, I doubt that half of America which voted for Dumbya will relax enough to even consider duologue on the issue.

[readmylips]

6. It's not the homophobia, It's Religion and Bible...

Two things republicans use which are unchallenged; guns and religion. Kerry was attacked for his religion not being 'born again' like bush. I mean these people have a straight line to heaven. Abortion, stem cells, family values (meaning religion again), gays & lesbians, all fall under religion; bush's religion.

[wurzel]

8. By changing the definition of "values" or "morals"

Repuke "values" or "morals" concentrate on human sex. Our's center on human welfare. We have to show that our's as valid as their's without disparaging theirs.

[Maat]

11. I quite agree, Wurzel.

n/t

[Cleopatra2a]

12. I don't get it either

don't these people have gay sons or daughters? What is wrong with them?

[readmylips]

16. Yes they do..like Cheney and My Sister-in-Law's daughter but...

they are born again christians, so they say. It's about religion and you can't dispute religion. It's a lost topic. These born again base life around their own interpretation of the bible. It's a win-win for the republicans.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. we all need to take trips through the south and seduce fundies

make them one of us...they probably are already...

[RDANGELO]

15. Someone has to start being completely honest.

Its really based bigotry not morality. Civil rights wasn't passed until the general public was awakened to the immorality of racial bigotry.

[ICT Liberal]

17. I agree completely, RDANGELO

We have to call them on their bigotry and injustice toward a group of fellow Americans. Just because it is in the "Bible" doesn't mean it's the right path for America to follow.

It's time to start looking forward to 2006.

[idiosyncratic]

18. Pundit from India said last night. "God, gays, and guns."

He said the International "audience" just doesn't understand why these are the major issues in American politics.

I don't understand either. :shrug:

[Hamlette]

19. Stop them from using the word value. It is meaningless codespeak.

make them start talking about morals. Good Christian morals. As long as they say "values" we are screwed. It is meaningless.

We all value our families and other people. Duh. But do we have the moral courage to fight for those who are different?

Take back the language and NEVER let them use their buzz words to frame the debate.

[The Magistrate]

27. That Is An Important Point, Ma'am

They are anti-abortionists, not "pro-lifers."

They are bigots and scolds, not persons with "moral values."

They are chickenhawk profiteeers, not "patriots."

They mean to bankrupt the country, not "grant tax relief."

They want to drive down your pay, not "spur investment."

They want you poisoned, maimed, dead, without recourse, not "tort reform."

The list goes on....

Never, ever, use your enemy's language, and never suffer it to be used in your presence without translating it into plain English. These codes must be laid bare for all to hear.

"Americans stared into the void, and fifty-one percent said: 'Hmmm...I wonder what's down there....'"

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

20. Here's what you do

The problem is that we are not philosophically consistant on "value issues"

We must be the party of personal freedom, allowing people to be as religous, as gay, as straight, as racist, etc as they want to be, provided they are not trampling on the rights of others to have their freedom. That's how you frame the issue.

Gay marriage is stupid anyway and it was dumb to ever use the term marriage as it has a very significant religous conotation to most people. We should have been in favor of "legal protection for gays, including full partnership rights" that's all you would have to say and it would have done the same thing.

[Selwynn]

21. I am so SEETHINGLY LIVIDLY FURIOUS about so-called "moral values"

I am so unspeakably filled with rage at how the media talks about "moral values" and says things like "those who care about moral values" decisively vote republican - so filled with rage, that I can't even write about it.

There is so much I want to say, but I am cannot see straight to write it. All I can say is this.

It is BECAUSE of my MORAL VALUES, it is BECAUSE of my religious beliefs, it is because of my FAMILY VALUES that

I WILL NOT VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH AND AM A DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wellstone dem]

22. We need to

reclaim the word "values"
we need to call people out on fake christianity
we need to support gay people who have the courage to come out in places and environments where they risk shunning and worse
we need to continue to name bigotry, prejudice, and injustice when we see it

[Goathead]

23. James McGreevey

Was New Jersey Governor James McGreevey "outed" by republican political operatives to demonstrate to the religious right that homosexuals had infiltrated the highest offices of power and to scare the shit out of them? Me thinks that he was.

[info being]

24. Let people who support this issue go without jobs and healthcare

We don't have to make this compromise. We're on the right side. They need to do some soul-searching.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[srpantalonas]

26. Justice.

Pilgrims came seeking it. Indians were robbed of it. Blacks were taken away from it and suffered to regain it.

This country was founded on the principle of justice for all. The 14th amendment expresses this principle soundly, guaranteeing equal applicaiton of all laws for all people. Gay rights is a justice issue. Focus on the justice princple and we'll win whereever there is injustice.

Charlie Crystle