I'm so sad. Many Republicans seem guilty. as if they know this is no good

[PretzelWarrior]

well, what can I tell them? If you don't seek to diligently fight against fascism and racism and all the other -isms..you will be overtaken by them.

Here we sit...the dust has only just begun to settle, and I feel so tired and angry and sad..upset. We have not even begun to see what will happen under a lame duck GWBush presidency where he can somewhat claim legitimacy and has a healthy majority in both houses and the ALL IMPORTANT MEDIA>

The media has let us down. They are now the enemy. Because they represent conventional wisdom, safe marketable views.

What can we do? Many of our own Democratic leaders let us down. We need a new AMerica. We need to force the issue by coopting Nader's beliefs and platforms.

I want Democratic party to move militantly to the left. And I want a 3rd party yet to be named which can claim the TRUE middle of America. THE GOP can continue down the path of radical religious platforms and jingoistic attacks of others around the world.

[XanaDUer]

1. They are not gloating?

Republicans?

[Liberal Veteran]

2. I won't mind co-opting some of Nader's platform...but...

...I have no intention of taking him along for the ride.

Say what you will, but I no longer view him with anything but contempt.+

[PretzelWarrior]

11. I agree. I just saw him on CNN and hate him because...

he spent all of his time in campaign talking about how bad Kerry and the Dems were but AFTER Kerry lost...he starts to talk about how BUsh pulled one over on the American people.

UnFUCKINGbelievable.

This guy needs to further marginalized than he already is. We can borrow some of his ideas, but I want him to pay for what he did in 2000 and didn't do in 2004 (holding Bush to account) and keep contempt of him to the very fore.

[Cobalt Violet]

3. We need to stop funding corporate America.

they turn around and use our money against us.

[mcg]

6. General Mills for example:

<http://www.publicintegrity.org/pns/db.aspx?act=cinfo&coid=006250740>

There are posts here listing all their brands.

May I suggest buying bulk organic foods from an organic food store.
They are better for our health anyway. One thing dismays me,
Cascadian Farm, which produces organic frozen fruit, is now owned
by General Mills.

[mcg]

10. But how do we hurt Halliburton? Here's some $$$ figures on them:

<http://www.publicintegrity.org/pns/db.aspx?act=cinfo&coid=964409007>

Halliburton's defense contracts went from $485.18 million in 2002 to
$4,319.71 in 2003. Contributions: Republican $1,146,248 95.37%

Quite a "good" return on investment.

[PretzelWarrior]

18. I just don't know what we can do. corporate fascist state is in control

it will only get worse and worse. I see the web and nonstop info/communication has made things WORSE for America--not better.

[xultar]

4. Fuckem, they know their kids are goin to fight and die in I-Rack n/t

[Kimber Scott]

8. Their kids don't go. You haven't noticed?

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Where are these recalcitrant GOPers. I wanna meet one. And YES

we need mroe parties in this country. Now way just two can fairly represent the full spectrum of ideologies in thei country.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[kiahzero]

12. We need Condorcet voting, first. (n/t)

[PretzelWarrior]

19. i'm ignorant on this. could you enlighten me?

just curious.

[kiahzero]

20. On the ballot, rank the candidates.

To figure out who won, put the results in a pairwise matrix.

http://www.electionmethods.org explains it well.

[PretzelWarrior]

23. cool. thank you. I think "open primaries" is good too

this is what California is trying to bring back. We should create cross breeding between dems and repubs and other parties or independents.

[kiahzero]

24. No, open primaries can be bad.

It allows insincere voters to skew a party. For instance, Republicans this year could have come out in force to support someone who they felt would be easy to beat in the general election.

[d_b]

I've noticed that too actually.

Like they know --in their hearts - that something corrupt went down yesterday.

Thought I was mistaken.

[d_b]

7. I've noticed that too actually.

Like they know --in their hearts - that something corrupt went down yesterday.

Thought I was mistaken.

[BadMatt22]

9. No Repub gloating here either....

...there was almost a sense of shame coming from them today - albeit subtle. It was almost as if they voted in Satan, and couldn't believe it.

[leftofthedial]

13. they aren't feling guilty enough to do anything about it though

more like smugly guilty

they are amoral, corrupt vermin

[PretzelWarrior]

14. I really don't think that is a productive comment. many are not vermin

many are regular people who are stuck in a fear cycle. they buy into the "ownership society" bullshit. others feel their little conventional life is under assault by gays and abortions, etc.

we just need to work hard to grab them...not condemn them

however, many ARE vermin. I"m just referring to a different group thant that.

[leftofthedial]

16. sorry, repatriated fascists

is who got the neocon movement started in Murka.

vermin.

[Cat Atomic]

22. I agree with you. There are no decent Republicans now.

Anyone who cast a vote for GW Bush, after seeing what he's about for 4 years, is a fascist. Period.

[leftofthedial]

25. this is true

and I aim to make them pay for it

[phylny]

15. WRT Repubs feeling guilty,

my dad said, "Mark my words. In a year, there will be a lot of people denying they supported Bush, saying, 'I didn't vote for him!'"

I love my dad. He called to day to see if I was okay.

:pals:

[PretzelWarrior]

17. my dad was a jerk. he doesn't vote...but seems to support Bush

go figure. anyway, he offered his bullshit comments to me in email today and I let him have it. I really do hate that I am related to someone so closely who thinks like him.

He doesn't even know what he thinks about most issues....just ambles along thinking he supports this or that...but has the audacity to poke fun at my activism and the effect I had on my brother in promoting his activism.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. We definitely have some gloating here in TX, but I'm seeing what you

are talking about too. Many Repubs here seem kind of wistful, like they basically know the country is going down the shitter, but at least they got their tax cut for a few more years.

[JPK]

26. Don't worry everyone.....down the road.......

......the republican party will screw themselves. They always do. They think they are untouchable now by this "victory?"......As always, there will be a price to pay for their cheating, their lies and their subversion of our most beautiful and sacred document, the constitution. And when that time comes, when the truths come out and their intentions are revealed from the shadowy vaults they now think are so safely hidden away, there will be a backlash from the people that will devastate their party down to its very foundations. Like their economic policies right now, they have squandered their party's future for the empty, selfish, venomous road they will take our country down. Most people in our country believe, republicans,democrats or independents, that first and foremost, we are Americans. And as Americans, we have always had an enormous sense of fair play. When all the secret deals, the squandering of our country's wealth, the alienation of our friends around the world, the subversion of our most sacred documents, when these truths and others become revealed to the population of our country, the backlash of anger toward the republican party will be so great, it will take decades for them to recover, if it ever will. So, their goals have been met.....for now. They can sit there and bask in the afterglow of their "victory". They can think in the self assuredness of their numbers that they have "won" and pat each other on the back and believe they are untouchable. But in the stillness of the night, when they are alone with their thoughts, even they know that their days of control are numbered. The people WILL speak again. And when they do, because of the republican deceptions, they will speak with such a thunder, no amount of lies, cheating, secret deals will be able to save them. As you sow....so shall you reap.
This country is a remarkable place to be alive in. Our history if nothing else, shows us that our country is always moving forward. Scientifically, socially, economically. This date in time....this election, is but a small point on a time line for us, for our country. Our direction will always be moving forward, faster and higher than the day before. Those that stand in the way of that forward momentum will be swept aside, like so many others that have tried before them. They will become nothing more than an interesting attempt at social regression that will fade away or eventually be ignored.

[PretzelWarrior]

27. there is a rational part of me that wants to agree with you...but

yes, everyone has a big but.LOL

I just see this country devolving at record pace in the next 4 years into a nationalistic, demagogue-friendly mess.