We're not witnessing religion run amok. It's religious nationalism.

[intheflow]

Jesus wasn't an American, so never waved the flag. God did not bless America any more or less than God did anywhere else. Jesus never said word one about abortions or homosexuality, but that is the mainstay of the right-wing religious Republican nuts out there. Jesus never asked to be worshipped, but that people follow his example of being kind and respectful to everyone.

Have to say this is feeling more and more like the precursor to WWII. In the early 19-teens's and 20's, German national debt and unemployment grew, and they invaded other countries. The German people were very poor but rather than pay attention to their political problems, they distracted themselves with other interests. (German folk song clubs were all the rage.) It was just easier to elect people into power who seemed to have answers rather than do anything themselves. Of course it culminated in Hitler's rise to political prominence.

Hitler only rose to power because of German nationalism. Poor, unempowered people living vicariously through aggressive government. The Germans saw themselves as above everyone else because of their high "values" due to their Aryan roots.

I think what we're seeing in America is that same kind of vicarious living through aggressive government. But we can't claim to all have the same racial roots--we're not all Aryan, that's for sure. But we can pretend we all come from Puritan roots because so many of the nation's founders were descended from the Puritans. So rather than ethnic nationalism, we are in the beginnings of a religious nationalism.

What is our only hope? First, we must must continue to speak out! for injustice when ever we see it. But if we speak out angrily, we'll never persuade those who might be made to give a damn. We'll only alienate (and disenfranchise) people right into the arms of the leaders who say they'll take care of you.

MLK was right when he said that "We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. we must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force."

The right wing is working from physical force, not soul force, no matter how much they try to wrap it in religion language in these Orwellian times. But do not confuse the two. Religion isn't nationalism, and that's what we're seeing today.

Thoughts?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. We should define morality

in non-religious terms. It can be done: in the EU, Chrisitianity isn't as important as it appears to be here, and yet they have some very moral laws, such as outlawing the death penalty.

The key is that concepts of peace, justice, help for the less fortunate, are found in religions other than Christianity-and are also found in secular writings as well. People interested in ecumenism know this. I think the Hispanic and Black Congressional caucuses would be a great place to think about what is morally right.

You are absolutely right that religion is not nationalism. There is an old hymn that says, "In Christ there is no east or west/In Him no south or north..."

[intheflow]

7. Absolutely separation of church and state

But people's private religious morality does influence their public morality, so I like to use language they might be morelikely to "hear." (Not that these peole seem to understand "morality" very well imho.)

But really, I know that King could have said "we must replace physical force with living in the eternal now;" or "we must replace physical force with atman force." I think it wouldn't have had the same umph to his American audience.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. No different than Iran really.

Comment made to me by a wise and trusted friend today.

[readmylips]

3. Dignity and discipline didn't safe his butt....

the CIA wanted to kill him and blame it on Jesus. MLK was not a born again from Jesus. He was just a regular christian and those don't count, according to republican religious nationalism.

[one_true_leroy]

4. it scares me to agree with you. but i do.

[jbm]

5. This is a wonderful post....n/t

thanks for this.

[Hamlette]

6. people find strength when they feel threatened

the religious right in this country feel threatened. It's the definition of fundamentalism. They feel like their way of life is on the line and they fight like hell.

We gotta fix that.

[T Bone]

10. and when this 'strength' still leaves them fearful, they will scapegoat

scapegoating is next, since their false strength will fail them.

[info being]

8. It's religion and nationalism both. Two seperate problems.

Both are a problem because they are based on a big lie. When people believe one big lie as fundamental as these, they are bound to believe others. It's that simple.

[UL_Approved]

9. I have said the same thing

You are absolutely right about nationalization of religion. The technique of perverting a great principle has been used time and again. Hitler had the Aryan myth and the Jewish/Soviet conspiracy. Stalin had a corruption of Socialism and the United States. We have Christianity and terrorism. I think that this country will have some serious thinking to do in the coming years. We now stand at the threshold of a great and terrible regime. The use of non-violent approaches is only effective if some people of reason prevail in a nation. I'm worried that the goons will get as militant as Stalinist Russia or the NAZI regime in 1940's Germany. When that happens, there is no peaceful protest.

[Thoth]

11. Right on n/t